Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 11:24 am
As above.
https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/
Southgate has resigned.
https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76530
Page 1 of 3
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:22 pm
Excellent news.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:23 pm
Expected - the record books will show he did well but the football at times has looked anything but
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:44 pm
He took over a sh-it show of a team and gave the country the most successful period for more than 50 years.
As for his style of football like most managers that preside over a team for a long period they tend to get remembered more for the poorer performances than the good ones.
England have had some great performances and great football too. He’s brought through and given young players like Saka, Bellingham, Foden and many more their opportunities.
And most of all he has brought some actual success. You could say he has not won anything - but getting to finals and semi finals in international football IS success. Croatia are talked about as a golden generation for their country - is their record in the last decade better than England ?
No doubt if the next manager does finally win something they will get all the credit rather than Southgate for the foundations he has laid.
People talk about the players he has available now and that he should win something with that team. Vensbles, Erickson and a few others had arguably better players. Even Sir Alf in 1970 failed to get past the quarter finals with a fantastic team which many said was better than his 1966 team.
As for his style of football like most managers that preside over a team for a long period they tend to get remembered more for the poorer performances than the good ones.
England have had some great performances and great football too. He’s brought through and given young players like Saka, Bellingham, Foden and many more their opportunities.
And most of all he has brought some actual success. You could say he has not won anything - but getting to finals and semi finals in international football IS success. Croatia are talked about as a golden generation for their country - is their record in the last decade better than England ?
No doubt if the next manager does finally win something they will get all the credit rather than Southgate for the foundations he has laid.
People talk about the players he has available now and that he should win something with that team. Vensbles, Erickson and a few others had arguably better players. Even Sir Alf in 1970 failed to get past the quarter finals with a fantastic team which many said was better than his 1966 team.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:47 pm
the type of man who would get out of the shower to have a pyss.
chinless and i cannot believe he is a manager of anything, let alone a national football team. it's amazing how far a lack of shame can get you in this life.
in a normal world he would be an apprentice funeral director.
chinless and i cannot believe he is a manager of anything, let alone a national football team. it's amazing how far a lack of shame can get you in this life.
in a normal world he would be an apprentice funeral director.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:48 pm
Made some improvements around the squad that can’t be denied. Eliminated the cliques and built a decent team mentality. The preparation looked meticulous and that showed in our penalties this time round.
Ultimately, it’s a results based business, and the results against the good sides were sadly still quite poor. The quality of the players he’s had at his disposal make the results look even worse to me. I’ll argue til I’m blue in the face that he hasn’t got close to getting the best out of the english talent he had available. And that’s BEFIRE we get into team selections and tactics/formations.
Yep, two euro finals, that’s great, but to not win the one at Wembley from being 1-0 up was unforgiveable for me. His negativity and fear of conceding will be my abiding memory of his tenure.
Cheers Gareth, good luck in the future.
We move on, and I’m happy with that.
Ultimately, it’s a results based business, and the results against the good sides were sadly still quite poor. The quality of the players he’s had at his disposal make the results look even worse to me. I’ll argue til I’m blue in the face that he hasn’t got close to getting the best out of the english talent he had available. And that’s BEFIRE we get into team selections and tactics/formations.
Yep, two euro finals, that’s great, but to not win the one at Wembley from being 1-0 up was unforgiveable for me. His negativity and fear of conceding will be my abiding memory of his tenure.
Cheers Gareth, good luck in the future.
We move on, and I’m happy with that.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:52 pm
Thanks, Gareth, but I’m now looking forward to watching the national team again.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:53 pm
You’re not a fan, then?yTib wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:47 pmthe type of man who would get out of the shower to have a pyss.
chinless and i cannot believe he is a manager of anything, let alone a national football team. it's amazing how far a lack of shame can get you in this life.
in a normal world he would be an apprentice funeral director.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:55 pm
Best news I have had today.
Tactically inept. Has always been a lucky manager in terms of qualification and tournament groups.
Highest paid international manager in the World.
Really glad to see the back of him. Doesn’t need to work again after 5.5 million pounds a year salary for a part time job.
Doubt any decent Premier League club would touch him with a barge pole. He will get a knighthood or MBE like many other glorious failures have done.
Tactically inept. Has always been a lucky manager in terms of qualification and tournament groups.
Highest paid international manager in the World.
Really glad to see the back of him. Doesn’t need to work again after 5.5 million pounds a year salary for a part time job.
Doubt any decent Premier League club would touch him with a barge pole. He will get a knighthood or MBE like many other glorious failures have done.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:56 pm
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:56 pm
Brought so many good things with him but mainly to do with the managing of the media and creating a great environment withing the England set up and training camp. Sadly the key thing he lacked was finding a way to win against the very best sides with the best set of players I have seen representing our country for a while. That goes back to me watching the 66 WC final
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:00 pm
He's done OK. I don't really think he's a better manager than Hodgson.
I genuinely think Hodgson was unlucky with the squad he inherited and he started the groundwork for Southgate by starting to bring younger players through. Southgate carried that on and was lucky to end up with a brilliant set of players during his tenure. If we don't win anything with these players then when will we ever?
I'm glad he's given someone else the opportunity to do it for the world cup
I genuinely think Hodgson was unlucky with the squad he inherited and he started the groundwork for Southgate by starting to bring younger players through. Southgate carried that on and was lucky to end up with a brilliant set of players during his tenure. If we don't win anything with these players then when will we ever?
I'm glad he's given someone else the opportunity to do it for the world cup
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:03 pm
Thank god he's gone.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:07 pm
Inevitable.
One report summed up the England performance in Germany with 3 words: Kane, Palmer, Southgate.
Kane: totally unfit and should not have played at all, wasted as a squad member which could have been filled by Grealish etc.
Palmer: the best player in the Premier League and should have started every game.
Southgate: refused to select the form team and frightened to use attack-minded players.
One report summed up the England performance in Germany with 3 words: Kane, Palmer, Southgate.
Kane: totally unfit and should not have played at all, wasted as a squad member which could have been filled by Grealish etc.
Palmer: the best player in the Premier League and should have started every game.
Southgate: refused to select the form team and frightened to use attack-minded players.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:16 pm
Croatia population 3.85 million. England population 56 million.Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:44 pmCroatia are talked about as a golden generation for their country - is their record in the last decade better than England ?
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:16 pm
England got to the last 2 Euro finals despite Southgate
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:19 pm
A very good man and a very good manager, the most successful in that job since 1966. The way he looked out for his players welfare, their mental wellbeing showed what a class act he is. His "Dear England..." letter was perhaps the defining moment of his tenure as he made England a team that people wanted to support, with players who actually became role models again.
It's the right time for him to go for both parties but his successor will have done a top job if they can improve on 2 euro finals and a WC semi. It's unlikely they will because England as a whole is so wrapped up in the goal of winning any tournament, as though having these good players entitles us to it, at all costs that they've forgotten how to build a team that deserves to win. Build a team, not a squad of individuals and the results will come. (Or they won't, this is cup football and only one team can win every time)
It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.
It's the right time for him to go for both parties but his successor will have done a top job if they can improve on 2 euro finals and a WC semi. It's unlikely they will because England as a whole is so wrapped up in the goal of winning any tournament, as though having these good players entitles us to it, at all costs that they've forgotten how to build a team that deserves to win. Build a team, not a squad of individuals and the results will come. (Or they won't, this is cup football and only one team can win every time)
It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:26 pm
Restored our standing in the rankings and introduced lots of young players which previous managers might not have done. It can be argued that with the quality of players at his disposal this summer he failed but previous England managers have had similar ranked players and not progressed as far. Maybe our so called star players just aren’t as good as their premier league performances lead us to believe ? Is the Premier league the best in the world and if so is it because of the quality of the foreigners playing here ?
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:26 pm
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:30 pm
quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:19 pmA very good man and a very good manager, the most successful in that job since 1966. The way he looked out for his players welfare, their mental wellbeing showed what a class act he is. His "Dear England..." letter was perhaps the defining moment of his tenure as he made England a team that people wanted to support, with players who actually became role models again.
It's the right time for him to go for both parties but his successor will have done a top job if they can improve on 2 euro finals and a WC semi. It's unlikely they will because England as a whole is so wrapped up in the goal of winning any tournament, as though having these good players entitles us to it, at all costs that they've forgotten how to build a team that deserves to win. Build a team, not a squad of individuals and the results will come. (Or they won't, this is cup football and only one team can win every time)
It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.
Every single word is spot on. Just look at the spoilt brat, entitled behaviour at the top of this thread.
People who watched Dyche teams for long enough, and a Kompany team that imploded last year, should know the difference between a good team, and a group of very talented individuals.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:33 pm
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:36 pm
Should have gone before the Tournament, not after.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:37 pm
I've made my dislike of Southgate clear on many threads. It's not personal. I suspect he's actually one of the nicest and most honourable people in all of football and I really mean that.Big Vinny K wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 12:44 pmHe took over a sh-it show of a team and gave the country the most successful period for more than 50 years.
But the measure of his tenure isn't to compare it to our worst ever one-off failure.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:39 pm
vs Serbia 3 shots on target
vs Denmark 7
vs Slovenia 4
vs Slovakia 2
vs Switzerland 3
vs Spain 4
The average in the Premier League is 9 per game so we were below that average in all but the Denmark game. Perhaps understandable against Spain but against most of those opponents you'd expect us to dominate with 6 or more comparable with the best teams in Europe.
Southgate seems to be a decent man and a good manager of people in many ways but his tactics are just too negative to get the best out of a fantastic squad of players. For me his tactics sucked the joy out of watching England a bit like SC did with Burnley.
vs Denmark 7
vs Slovenia 4
vs Slovakia 2
vs Switzerland 3
vs Spain 4
The average in the Premier League is 9 per game so we were below that average in all but the Denmark game. Perhaps understandable against Spain but against most of those opponents you'd expect us to dominate with 6 or more comparable with the best teams in Europe.
Southgate seems to be a decent man and a good manager of people in many ways but his tactics are just too negative to get the best out of a fantastic squad of players. For me his tactics sucked the joy out of watching England a bit like SC did with Burnley.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:42 pm
Undoubtedly a top bloke.
But a very good manager?
Let's see how he gets on if he takes a club role. I'm relieved beyond words our position has been filled.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:53 pm
Yes, for the reasons I mentioned in my post. But purely on results, if he'd done well at one tournament you could maybe question it but he did it at 3 so it's not a fluke. Bad managers don't get teams to 2 euro finals and a WC semi.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:58 pm
We'll have to wait and see how well he does at club level.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:53 pmYes, for the reasons I mentioned in my post. But purely on results, if he'd done well at one tournament you could maybe question it but he did it at 3 so it's not a fluke. Bad managers don't get teams to 2 euro finals and a WC semi.
He's had a stab at it beforehand too.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:59 pm
I agree with most of this. But the last part is basically because the football has been dirge all tournament. If we'd have played well and been entertaining then there wouldn't have been any issues with him.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:19 pmA very good man and a very good manager, the most successful in that job since 1966. The way he looked out for his players welfare, their mental wellbeing showed what a class act he is. His "Dear England..." letter was perhaps the defining moment of his tenure as he made England a team that people wanted to support, with players who actually became role models again.
It's the right time for him to go for both parties but his successor will have done a top job if they can improve on 2 euro finals and a WC semi. It's unlikely they will because England as a whole is so wrapped up in the goal of winning any tournament, as though having these good players entitles us to it, at all costs that they've forgotten how to build a team that deserves to win. Build a team, not a squad of individuals and the results will come. (Or they won't, this is cup football and only one team can win every time)
It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:01 pm
He's excellent at some things.. man management, creating a club environment, working on detail (ie pens), embracing the press - and just being a good, honest leader.
He's not great at tactics, he's slow to react, and recently you could argue 'too' loyal. It's like he's brilliant at everything except the football bit.
His record against top 10 sides is awful, possibly as bad as any England manager. And the problem is, at some point, you'll have to beat them. That said, another positive impact he's had, is he's really highlighted the huge importance of winning your group, it's cost us previously. That's how you progress to latter stages.
He'll go with loads of credit and respect, but I'm not sure how keen any fan would be to see him managing their club. Certainly not Boro fans.
He's not great at tactics, he's slow to react, and recently you could argue 'too' loyal. It's like he's brilliant at everything except the football bit.
His record against top 10 sides is awful, possibly as bad as any England manager. And the problem is, at some point, you'll have to beat them. That said, another positive impact he's had, is he's really highlighted the huge importance of winning your group, it's cost us previously. That's how you progress to latter stages.
He'll go with loads of credit and respect, but I'm not sure how keen any fan would be to see him managing their club. Certainly not Boro fans.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:04 pm
Have to agree he got England so close to winning something and not since 1990 have they been anyway near that .quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:53 pmYes, for the reasons I mentioned in my post. But purely on results, if he'd done well at one tournament you could maybe question it but he did it at 3 so it's not a fluke. Bad managers don't get teams to 2 euro finals and a WC semi.
That said now looking forward to the 7th of September
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:05 pm
he'll do very well in saudi arabia.
money wise at least.
money wise at least.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:06 pm
Be interesting to see which top club job he will get .
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:14 pm
I can think of at least 6 recent England games that had the joy sucked out of them by ultra negative tactics which had nothing to do with fans or media.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 1:19 pm
It's that fans'/media sense of entitlement that has sucked the joy out of watching England, as if only winning a tournament matters and anything else is a total failure, which is really ******* stupid. Hopefully whoever is next can get that back but they have a hell of a job on their hands.
Every time you think the next game will be better but it's just the same turgid football.
Every man and his wife knew we had Spain on the back foot after Palmer's equaliser but it was for just a few brief minutes and we slipped back into the norm and all momentum was gone.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:22 pm
Amazing how many still can’t differentiate between international football and club football, let alone international football for England and club football. Whether Southgate is good enough to get a ‘top job’ at club football is completely irrelevant to the fact he did a very good job as manager of England. As has already been pointed out on another thread, the highest level Spains manager has managed is Spanish division 3 and youth football, Joachim Low did nothing outside of international and Scaloni the same - yet they’ve done exceptional jobs for their countries. On the flip side we appointed the title winning, big named Fabio Capello and he was an absolute disaster.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:22 pm
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:40 pm
A bit Cotterillesque at the end.
Did a good job but the football got worse as it went on and all parties know it’s time for a change.
At least he got to make the decision.
Did a good job but the football got worse as it went on and all parties know it’s time for a change.
At least he got to make the decision.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:41 pm
A thoroughly decent bloke and a superb representative for the country (we don't have many nowadays). Shame for him he couldn't go out on a win but he is not an elite manager. I just hope he's not replaced by Potter
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:47 pm
I get the tactics side of it, although the first full 90 mins of England at the euros I saw was the Netherlands game and that wasn't exactly 'ultra negative'. The priority at a tournament though is to get through each round. England topped their group and did what they needed to do to get through every round to the final. They got beaten by a miles better team in the final and there's no disgrace jn that whatsoever.Juan Tanamera wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:14 pmI can think of at least 6 recent England games that had the joy sucked out of them by ultra negative tactics which had nothing to do with fans or media.
Every time you think the next game will be better but it's just the same turgid football.
Every man and his wife knew we had Spain on the back foot after Palmer's equaliser but it was for just a few brief minutes and we slipped back into the norm and all momentum was gone.
I think a lot of the turgid football is related to my earlier post though, as the entitlement has managed to seep through to some of the players and they've really felt the pressure. The number of interviews I've heard where they talk of knowing what's 'expected', 'delivering', etc like its some dumb sales task on the Apprentice, it's the opposite of what their mindset should be. I doubt one Spain player talked about delivering for the nation or whatever before the final and I think that's why other nations deal with pressures of these games way better than England do.
I don't think Southgate is a great manager, I don't want him at my club, but he's done a very good job and his results speak for themselves. Someone will have to do a great job to do better.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:49 pm
Each to their own but they're both managing football teams. He gets to pick the team and the tactics.
Hardly like switching codes in rugby or switching from real life to Football Manager.
YMMV
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:02 pm
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:13 pm
it's difficult to understand why folk are defending this flake.
one could argue england did well enough in spite of southgate, not because of him.
the fact that we scraped through to the final was a minor miracle, not because of great strategy or leadership.
one could argue england did well enough in spite of southgate, not because of him.
the fact that we scraped through to the final was a minor miracle, not because of great strategy or leadership.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:33 pm
He did. And he did it playing Howard Wilkinson style football which is quite an achievement.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:02 pmHe does and considering he got England to two finals and a semi in 8 years, he did that pretty well.
Don't forget his relegation from the Nations League top group too.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:38 pm
Couldn’t cope with anymore of that borefest, and his success was mostly based on falling on the easy side of the draw (unbelievably happened 3 times), then (in tournaments) we always came up short against good sides. Prioritised not conceding over scoring, despite our strengths being in attack.
Of course changing manager is a risk, and guarantees nothing, but it had to be done for me.
Of course changing manager is a risk, and guarantees nothing, but it had to be done for me.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:46 pm
We have so much depth in talent now and Southgate has had a long spell; historians will be kind to him.
I think the time is right for someone else to try and find a more balanced and less defensive minded England team.
I think the time is right for someone else to try and find a more balanced and less defensive minded England team.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:46 pm
Southgate was top class in every aspect bar the football and he has without a doubt left us in a much better place. Would like to see someone come in who can get the best out of our attacking player's. We were definitely in need of a change.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:49 pm
They were on the easy side of the draw most regularly, because they did their jobs, whilst so called big teams failed... England then had to beat the teams that got better results. An important part of being a manager, understanding what's required, and ensuring it gets done, rather than worrying about reputations on paper.hoskinsgoalatswansea wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:38 pmCouldn’t cope with anymore of that borefest, and his success was mostly based on falling on the easy side of the draw (unbelievably happened 3 times), then (in tournaments) we always came up short against good sides. Prioritised not conceding over scoring, despite our strengths being in attack.
Of course changing manager is a risk, and guarantees nothing, but it had to be done for me.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:51 pm
With Dyche we played to not get beat because we had no choice.
I've no idea what Southgate's excuse was.
I've no idea what Southgate's excuse was.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:52 pm
2 finals in 4 years...... 2 finals in 58 years. Decent excuse that.dougcollins wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:51 pmWith Dyche we played to not get beat because we had no choice.
I've no idea what Southgate's excuse was.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:54 pm
Nah, not having that. Obviously topping the group gives you a better chance of facing a lesser team in the first knockout game, but to get a clear path to the end without playing the big hitters in 3 tournaments was very lucky indeed.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:49 pmThey were on the easy side of the draw most regularly, because they did their jobs, whilst others failed. An important part of being a manager, understanding what's required, and ensuring it gets done.
Re: Southgate has resigned.
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:59 pm
Getting the easy side of this draw wasn’t in our hands though. We were reliant on Denmark not scoring a goal! We were incredibly lucky during this tournament.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:49 pmThey were on the easy side of the draw most regularly, because they did their jobs, whilst so called big teams failed... England then had to beat the teams that got better results. An important part of being a manager, understanding what's required, and ensuring it gets done, rather than worrying about reputations on paper.