A friend in Burnley has just been given notice of redundancy her union is of no use apparently - she is looking for a specialist solictor in Burnley - any recommendations?

PPP should be able to recommend someone

Brexit - tell your friend to go to Steve Gee at Farnworth Rose. He represented me and is superb. He was recommended to me by a friend who is herself a head of HR/people. She hates going up against him!! She said if she herself was put in a redundancy position she would use him herself. I also think your friend is entitled to at least £500 credit from her company to help with solicitors fees but don't quote me on that pal.

BaronGarcia wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:20 pm

Brexit - tell your friend to go to Steve Gee at Farnworth Rose. He represented me and is superb. He was recommended to me by a friend who is herself a head of HR/people. She hates going up against him!! She said if she herself was put in a redundancy position she would use him herself. I also think your friend is entitled to at least £500 credit from her company to help with solicitors fees but don't quote me on that pal.

Thanks, I will pass that on.

Try ACAS first before a solicitor, you might be wasting your money. ACAS is free

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:31 pm

Try ACAS first before a solicitor, you might be wasting your money. ACAS is free

Not my area of law but im more than sure ACAS cannot give legal advice.

Typically the £500 fee is only agreed if the organisation take the settlement agreement route and the fee is to cover a review of the settlement agreement by a solicitor.

Usually in a redundancy scenario, if the organisation follow the right process (fairly) there is limited options for legal action. It’s if they’ve screwed up said process, not acted fairly or it’s not a redundancy scenario (I.e. where they are seeking to exit), where solicitors are used.

All good solicitors offer a free consultation and should advise the best route for each set of circumstances but tell your friend to be careful of accumulating hefty solicitors fees if there isn’t a valid legal case against the company - she’ll only eat in to her own compensation.

Good feedback NewClaret - I think you are spot on.

pushpinpussy wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:41 pm

Not my area of law but im more than sure ACAS cannot give legal advice.

They can certainly advise whether your company has followed correct process and if there's an opportunity for tribunal or a claim. Definitely the right people to speak to first
Companies very rarely mess up redundancy these days, but there are the odd occasion

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:11 pm

PPP should be able to recommend someone

Give over fella. You are so annoying beyond belief & contribute negatively to the extent that people post less or not at all. It's a relief going away when it shouldn't be for some people.

There are rules and a process. Outcome is a fixed payment. Is it a proper redundancy? Union should be able to verify that and ensure correct procedure and payment. That is the deal. If the local rep can't do it, then they should ask their regional/national office.

Union has duties!!!

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 4:43 pm

Typically the £500 fee is only agreed if the organisation take the settlement agreement route and the fee is to cover a review of the settlement agreement by a solicitor.

Usually in a redundancy scenario, if the organisation follow the right process (fairly) there is limited options for legal action. It’s if they’ve screwed up said process, not acted fairly or it’s not a redundancy scenario (I.e. where they are seeking to exit), where solicitors are used.

All good solicitors offer a free consultation and should advise the best route for each set of circumstances but tell your friend to be careful of accumulating hefty solicitors fees if there isn’t a valid legal case against the company - she’ll only eat in to her own compensation.

Good advice. Most companies will know their statutory obligations and should follow this.
One area of potential concern though is if she is being made redundant because they are reducing the size of the workforce and there are employees in a same or similar role to her, then they should be using a robust point scoring system to determine who should be made redundant.

She is being redundant but other employees with her role in other areas are not being made redundant and her education union is not helping.

If she''s been there less than 2 years, they can let her go without any reason.

brexit wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:19 pm

She is being redundant but other employees with her role in other areas are not being made redundant and her education union is not helping.

Has she seen the scoring to understand why it's her?

Johnathan Holden at Forbes he is a Claret

brexit wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:19 pm

She is being redundant but other employees with her role in other areas are not being made redundant and her education union is not helping.

She needs to request the information on why she was selected for redundancy instead of other colleagues.
They have to demonstrate how they came to this decision.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:16 pm

She needs to request the information on why she was selected for redundancy instead of other colleagues.
They have to demonstrate how they came to this decision.

I’m not sure they are obliged to. What needs to be happening is paying her off fully to whatever she’s entitled to right down to the last penny & that should enable her to move on. It’s a clear sign the union not helping meaning it’s all above board.

brexit wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 6:19 pm

She is being redundant but other employees with her role in other areas are not being made redundant and her education union is not helping.

Geographical areas? Or other areas of the business?

That’s the trouble when you have people relaying stories from friends you never really know what’s what & you are left guessing.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:33 pm

I’m not sure they are obliged to. What needs to be happening is paying her off fully to whatever she’s entitled to right down to the last penny & that should enable her to move on. It’s a clear sign the union not helping meaning it’s all above board.

They are obliged to do this if other employees are remaining in the same role but not selected for redundancy. If they don’t do this it leaves the employer wide open for an employment tribunal case.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:41 pm

They are obliged to do this if other employees are remaining in the same role but not selected for redundancy. If they don’t do this it leaves the employer wide open for an employment tribunal case.

I think all that would have been considered prior. It’s all passed on information you don’t (me included) know the right story.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:33 pm

I’m not sure they are obliged to. What needs to be happening is paying her off fully to whatever she’s entitled to right down to the last penny & that should enable her to move on. It’s a clear sign the union not helping meaning it’s all above board.

In this instance the organisation is obliged to set out its selection criteria and consult on it.

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:46 pm

In this instance the organisation is obliged to set out its selection criteria and consult on it.

She needs to be seeking professional guidance & advice about employment law. I’m not sure asking a friend to put forward the situation & a possible solution on a football forum is the right way to be going about it. Although the initial question was does anybody know an expertise in that field.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:50 pm

She needs to be seeking professional guidance & advice about employment law. I’m not sure asking a friend to put forward the situation & a possible solution on a football forum is the right way to be going about it. Although the initial question was does anybody know an expertise in that field.

Yes that was the purpose of the thread

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:54 pm

Yes that was the purpose of the thread

But that’s not stopped certain posters from wading in ill informed. What he probably wanted is Mr jones or Mr smith etc. we aren’t specialised in employment law I’m guessing we aren’t I’m certainly not.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 26, 2024 10:58 pm

But that’s not stopped certain posters from wading in ill informed. What he probably wanted is Mr jones or Mr smith etc. we aren’t specialised in employment law I’m guessing we aren’t I’m certainly not.

I’m only posting from my experience as a Senior Manager in a large company where we made people redundant from time to time, including myself in my early fifties when the business was sold on.

Unfortunately having worked on managing many redundancy schemes I'm pretty ok with it too.

Honest opinion is she's not at the stage of needing a solicitor. It's just cost that she's possibly going to have to pay.

As I've said above. Understand the criteria for redundancy, they have to give this and contact ACAS. They'll advise for free on what her next steps should be.

If the union are unable to help, I presume she's got no case. So she needs to take the money and focus her efforts into her next step.

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:49 am

Unfortunately having worked on managing many redundancy schemes I'm pretty ok with it too.

Honest opinion is she's not at the stage of needing a solicitor. It's just cost that she's possibly going to have to pay.

As I've said above. Understand the criteria for redundancy, they have to give this and contact ACAS. They'll advise for free on what her next steps should be.

If the union, are unable to help, I presume she's got no case. So she needs to take the money and focus her efforts into her next step.

The local union reps, in this case UCU, are apparently on holiday. The only reason for deleting the post is apparently cost savings. She reached out because she has been asked to go to a meeting next week and there are no union reps available.

brexit wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:54 am

The local union reps, in this case UCU, are apparently on holiday. The only reason for deleting the post is apparently cost savings. She reached out because she has been asked to go to a meeting next week and there are no union reps available.

So she's at risk? Not actually made redundant?

She can ask to postpone until a rep is available?

She can take another representative in, doesn't have to be a union rep.

Cost saving is a valid reason for redundancy, what she needs to see is how they are grading her and her colleagues to decide who goes. This could be attendance, attitude, disciplinary record, length of service, any of that sort of stuff.

brexit wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:54 am

The local union reps, in this case UCU, are apparently on holiday. The only reason for deleting the post is apparently cost savings. She reached out because she has been asked to go to a meeting next week and there are no union reps available.

If it's the UCU then I'm guessing she works for a local college or University. Normally as part of the process an institution would suggest that someone up for redundancy would be allowed representation. In the first instance I would see if the meeting can be postponed.

Normally redundancy processes are done in conjunction with the Unions - so the Union should know when the meetings are and have representation available. Unfortunately, Unions are quite weak these days or the management culture is hostile to Unions so it's hard to know the situation.

A solicitor would be quite expensive because the Unions would be all over the new positions, job specs etc. looking for errors and unfairness particularly if your friend has a protected characteristic. And normally, the Unions would have regular meetings with SLT so will have a lot of local knowledge.

My advice would be to advise her to keep a clear head and ask the institution for a postponement. If the institution doesn't want to play then ring UCU head office and ask them for advice and the contact details of the local UCU reps. If all else fails and if your friend feels concerned about the process then a solicitor may help.

When faced with redundancy a lot of people feel as though it's quite personal to them but it is the role that is made redundant and not the person so it's useful to maintain a good relationship with those on the other side and to tacitly accept that sometimes things are out of your control and it's time to move on.

It's better to leave with a good reference than not and in my experience most people find something else and never look back. Best of luck...!

ClaretPete001 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 27, 2024 4:10 pm

If it's the UCU then I'm guessing she works for a local college or University. Normally as part of the process an institution would suggest that someone up for redundancy would be allowed representation. In the first instance I would see if the meeting can be postponed.

Normally redundancy processes are done in conjunction with the Unions - so the Union should know when the meetings are and have representation available. Unfortunately, Unions are quite weak these days or the management culture is hostile to Unions so it's hard to know the situation.

A solicitor would be quite expensive because the Unions would be all over the new positions, job specs etc. looking for errors and unfairness particularly if your friend has a protected characteristic. And normally, the Unions would have regular meetings with SLT so will have a lot of local knowledge.

My advice would be to advise her to keep a clear head and ask the institution for a postponement. If the institution doesn't want to play then ring UCU head office and ask them for advice and the contact details of the local UCU reps. If all else fails and if your friend feels concerned about the process then a solicitor may help.

When faced with redundancy a lot of people feel as though it's quite personal to them but it is the role that is made redundant and not the person so it's useful to maintain a good relationship with those on the other side and to tacitly accept that sometimes things are out of your control and it's time to move on.

It's better to leave with a good reference than not and in my experience most people find something else and never look back. Best of luck...!

Thanks will pass that on

If she’s a member of a union they will have their own solicitors. They won’t take a case on unless they think they have a very good chance of winning though. It all really depends on her T&C’s and whether her position is being refilled. There’s not a great deal you can do in these situations. I was a union rep and had a couple of these scenarios. One was sacked and we managed to win in court for unfair dismissal. Good luck with it but employers hold the upper hand when it comes to the Law.