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ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:01 pm
by ClaretTony
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:05 pm
by Claretitus
Wish him all the best obviously, but he’ll be a Championship player again at the end of next May.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:07 pm
by Clarets4me
What's he going to do when Ipswich inevitably get relegated in May, if not before ? Look for another newly promoted Club to join for 12 months ?
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:08 pm
by PremierLeagueClass
Claretitus wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:05 pm
Wish him all the best obviously, but he’ll be a Championship player again at the end of next May.
We will have him back if we switch places next summer.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:09 pm
by Ric_C
File under not good enough for the prem but too good for the championship
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm
by The Shire Claret
All the best - good player but I’m still convinced Beyer and Ekdal are the better players
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm
by ervi34
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:07 pm
What's he going to do when Ipswich inevitably get relegated in May, if not before ? Look for another newly promoted Club to join for 12 months ?
Maybe Ispwich will be smarter and won't sell every player someone has bid for.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:11 pm
by TPClaret
Not that bothered now we’ve signed Worrall. I feel he’s a very good replacement
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:11 pm
by BabylonClaret
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:07 pm
What's he going to do when Ipswich inevitably get relegated in May, if not before ? Look for another newly promoted Club to join for 12 months ?
I doubt it. Ipswich will keep hold of him rather than make it clear they are open to offers
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:13 pm
by Darthlaw
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm
Maybe Ispwich will be smarter and won't sell every player someone has bid for.
Yeah they’ll hold on to players who want to leave like all the ‘best’ clubs do.
A squad of want-aways is always the path to cohesion, motivation and ultimately promotion.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:14 pm
by Clarets4me
McDonalds have a better staff retention record than us ...
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:15 pm
by CoolClaret
I have yet to hear the sound logic between effectively replacing O'Shea for Worrall & Humphries, especially daft considering the partnership that O'Shea & Esteve recently developed, which took so long for them to achieve.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:16 pm
by warksclaret
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:13 pm
Yeah they’ll hold on to players who want to leave like all the ‘best’ clubs do.
A squad of want-aways is always the path to cohesion, motivation and ultimately promotion.
And if sensible will have a relegation clause on wages. Also if they do go down my money will be on McKenna leaving. I know someone who is close to the FA, and he is highly respected by them
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:17 pm
by TPClaret
CoolClaret wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:15 pm
I have yet to hear the sound logic between effectively replacing O'Shea for Worrall & Humphries, especially daft considering the partnership that O'Shea & Esteve recently developed, which took so long for them to achieve.
Probably because he wanted to go
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:19 pm
by Swizzlestick
CoolClaret wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:15 pm
I have yet to hear the sound logic between effectively replacing O'Shea for Worrall & Humphries, especially daft considering the partnership that O'Shea & Esteve recently developed, which took so long for them to achieve.
Isn’t the sound logic that the player wants to leave?
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:19 pm
by ervi34
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:13 pm
Yeah they’ll hold on to players who want to leave like all the ‘best’ clubs do.
A squad of want-aways is always the path to cohesion, motivation and ultimately promotion.
Better than signing 10 players every summer.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:20 pm
by warksclaret
Ric_C wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:09 pm
File under not good enough for the prem but too good for the championship
I think you are right-I felt a full season with us would have prepared him fully for the PL. I really think Ipswich's defence will be really under pressure this season, and as we saw twice with Muric yesterday, there were at least two telling moments where he was brutally exposed and punished
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:20 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
CoolClaret wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:15 pm
I have yet to hear the sound logic between effectively replacing O'Shea for Worrall & Humphries, especially daft considering the partnership that O'Shea & Esteve recently developed, which took so long for them to achieve.
O’Shea wanted to leave
Worrall wants to be here, has good experience at this level, of getting promoted and being in the PL
Humphries is an up and coming player with potential
Why can’t you see the logic?
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:23 pm
by CoolClaret
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:20 pm
O’Shea wanted to leave
Worrall wants to be here, has good experience at this level, of getting promoted and being in the PL
Humphries is an up and coming player with potential
Why can’t you see the logic?
How do you know O'Shea 'wants to leave' - that is conjecture. He played the first two games no problem and looked comitted and was one of the only leaders on the pitch last year.
So is O'Shea, he's only 25 which is nothing for a centre half. Stinks of kicking the debt can down the road.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:25 pm
by Darthlaw
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:19 pm
Better than signing 10 players every summer.
Ever decreasing circles.
You won’t have a club with a squad of want always as they run their contracts down, or just through general apathy take the club down to oblivion with a few relegations.
Or you could put your big boy pants on and accept it’s ok to sell players who don’t want to be here for a profit.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:30 pm
by Raconteur
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:20 pm
O’Shea wanted to leave
Worrall wants to be here, has good experience at this level, of getting promoted and being in the PL
Humphries is an up and coming player with potential
Why can’t you see the logic?
I know they missed out on promotion but Leeds still managed to get 90 points and reach the play off final by keeping want away players for another season.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:31 pm
by Pearcey
The fact he’s gone to Ipswich about sums up his level. I’m happy we have Worrall.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:33 pm
by ervi34
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:25 pm
Ever decreasing circles.
You won’t have a club with a squad of want always as they run their contracts down, or just through general apathy take the club down to oblivion with a few relegations.
Or you could put your big boy pants on and accept it’s ok to sell players who don’t want to be here for a profit.
Ah, the profit. The most important thing in the world. Who cares we've lost half the squad as losing as we're making money.
The thing is - a lot of players who "don't want to play for Burnley" actually want to play in a better league, for a better team and probably earn more money in the process. The job of our board is to try and convince them to trust the plan and show some loyalty. What's the point of contracts anyway? We should just sign player on 1 year deals for now on if they can just say "I don't want to be here" and go.
For example, a few years ago clubs were bidding for Tarkowski. He was probably keen on the move, but we held tight and didn't let one of our best players go.
I was watching Brighton yesterday (club who's transfer model we are supposed to follow) and noticed a lot of talented players who could easily walk into top 6 teams. Don't you think they would want to do so? They probably would, but Brighton have a policy that says - you either overpay and take our player or you leave him alone. They certainly don't sell half of their squad as soon as the first offer comes in.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:33 pm
by BleedingClaret
All the best Dara
A player that seemed to have true desire to play
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:34 pm
by mdd2
£12million+£3million add ons but WBA get 20% of our profit of £8million-is losing him worth the £6.4million we will bank?
Also see Wolves in talks to sign Koleosho.
If he goes as well I imagine SP will be well p****d off.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:37 pm
by RVclaret
Nixon reported its a fee of £18m which lines up with LongsideClaret’s 15+2. It’s not terrible and I’m pretty happy with his replacement. Just a shame Worrall wasn’t in the building a week ago.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:39 pm
by Pickles
Very decent player at Championship level. But we've replaced him with Worrall/Humphreys. Sensible dealings. Need to do the same with Berge, Odobert...
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:40 pm
by claretskeith
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:14 pm
McDonalds have a better staff retention record than us ...
Trying to think of a cheesy reply.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:40 pm
by Dyched
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:33 pm
Ah, the profit. The most important thing in the world. Who cares we've lost half the squad as losing as we're making money.
The thing is - a lot of players who "don't want to play for Burnley" actually want to play in a better league, for a better team and probably earn more money in the process. The job of our board is to try and convince them to trust the plan and show some loyalty. What's the point of contracts anyway? We should just sign player on 1 year deals for now on if they can just say "I don't want to be here" and go.
For example, a few years ago clubs were bidding for Tarkowski. He was probably keen on the move, but we held tight and didn't let one of our best players go.
I was watching Brighton yesterday (club who's transfer model we are supposed to follow) and noticed a lot of talented players who could easily walk into top 6 teams. Don't you think they would want to do so? They probably would, but Brighton have a policy that says - you either overpay and take our player or you leave him alone. They certainly don't sell half of their squad as soon as the first offer comes in.
Tarkowski left when we were relegated.
Players have gone this year, because if relegation.
Brighton have never been relegated from the PL.
It’s not comparable.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:43 pm
by ervi34
Dyched wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:40 pm
Tarkowski left when we were relegated.
Players have gone this year, because if relegation.
Brighton have never been relegated from the PL.
It’s not comparable.
Okay then. Last summer, after Leeds were relegated, Wilfried Gnonto told everyone he doesn't want to play for club and wanted to leave. They didn't sell him, he's still their player, and of the best attackers in this league. Is that comparable?
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:48 pm
by aggi
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:33 pm
I was watching Brighton yesterday (club who's transfer model we are supposed to follow) and noticed a lot of talented players who could easily walk into top 6 teams. Don't you think they would want to do so? They probably would, but Brighton have a policy that says - you either overpay and take our player or you leave him alone. They certainly don't sell half of their squad as soon as the first offer comes in.
It's a lot easier to do that when your owner has a spare £500m to lend you though.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:48 pm
by Darthlaw
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:33 pm
Ah, the profit. The most important thing in the world. Who cares we've lost half the squad as losing as we're making money.
The thing is - a lot of players who "don't want to play for Burnley" actually want to play in a better league, for a better team and probably earn more money in the process. The job of our board is to try and convince them to trust the plan and show some loyalty. What's the point of contracts anyway? We should just sign player on 1 year deals for now on if they can just say "I don't want to be here" and go.
For example, a few years ago clubs were bidding for Tarkowski. He was probably keen on the move, but we held tight and didn't let one of our best players go.
I was watching Brighton yesterday (club who's transfer model we are supposed to follow) and noticed a lot of talented players who could easily walk into top 6 teams. Don't you think they would want to do so? They probably would, but Brighton have a policy that says - you either overpay and take our player or you leave him alone. They certainly don't sell half of their squad as soon as the first offer comes in.
Are you really that naive?
A player who has just lost a slice off his salary (O'shea, Berge, Odobert all signed whilst we were in the PL) with a brand new manager is expected to forego playing at a higher level, on more money, and to 'trust the plan', when realistically the plan left to go to Bayern in the summer?
Your example or Tarkowski doesnt even hold water as we werent relegated until he left. Sure as sh1t he'd have been out of here if he was facing the same situation as O'shea, Berge et al. See if Tarks wants to show loyalty at Everton when they finally slip through the trap door this season.
As for Brighton, you need to realise their ownership is a lot different to ours. If that's the model we're following we're going to need a sugar daddy pretty sharpish.
I should have known all the above was fruitless when I see your first point though. Profit is important as is running a football club as a going concern. With the new penalties for FFP and failing to run a club sustainably, the days of throwing caution totally to the wind are over.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:49 pm
by Clive 1960
I'm very worried about these owners now as if we don't strengthen in the areas we need to this week it's going to a long winter ahead so come on Pace pull some rabbits out of your hat ..
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:51 pm
by DAVETHEVICAR
Our best centre back and if Ipswich do get relegated they will go straight back .
They are not in a financial mess like we are and our problem may be getting excellent replacements in if they see how many top players are leaving in the next few days
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:52 pm
by Rick_Muller
I think he’d have been better off going to Brentford when they were interested, I think Ipswich will be a decision he’ll regret.
I wish him all the best though.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:54 pm
by ClaretTony
The Shire Claret wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm
but I’m still convinced Beyer and Ekdal are the better players
One of them was found horribly wanting last season and the other, while technically good, is too slow.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:56 pm
by ervi34
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:48 pm
Are you really that naive?
A player who has just lost a slice off his salary (O'shea, Berge, Odobert all signed whilst we were in the PL) with a brand new manager is expected to forego playing at a higher level, on more money, and to 'trust the plan', when realistically the plan left to go to Bayern in the summer?
Your example or Tarkowski doesnt even hold water as we werent relegated until he left. Sure as sh1t he'd have been out of here if he was facing the same situation as O'shea, Berge et al. See if Tarks wants to show loyalty at Everton when they finally slip through the trap door this season.
As for Brighton, you need to realise their ownership is a lot different to ours. If that's the model we're following we're going to need a sugar daddy pretty sharpish.
I should have known all the above was fruitless when I see your first point though. Profit is important as is running a football club as a going concern. With the new penalties for FFP and failing to run a club sustainably, the days of throwing caution totally to the wind are over.
Of course making profit is very important, I never said it wasn't. The problem is when a lot fans start caring about making profit instead of results. You can look at the JBG situation and say - "good deal, we made 1.5m profit", but I'll say that consequence of him leaving (good player, experienced) nullify the money we make. Same can be said for a lot other deals. I don't really care we made 50 % profit on Zaroury and then have 0 fit senior wingers.
My example of Tarkowski was to show that we used to reject bids for our star players. Just like a lot of relegated teams did this summer (SUFC still have their star midfielders, Luton have their keeper, Doughty, forwards). A lot of other clubs managed to do same in the past. Fulham managed to keep Mitrović!
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:06 pm
by Roosterbooster
What a window for O'Shae
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:07 pm
by scouseclaret
Looks like madness all round to me. We sell an international CB with a season’s premier league experience for £15m, in the same week as we’ve signed an unproven kid who clearly wasn’t ready for first team football yesterday, who’s apparently valued at £12m??? ( Let’s hope it is an option and not an obligation !)
From O’Shea’s point of view, last season must’ve been a pretty miserable experience for him. I can’t imagine why he would want to repeat it with Ipswich. Surely it wouldn’t have been too difficult to persuade him to give us another season IF we really wanted to. But then, I guess it’s a much more difficult sell when we’ve already sold the better half of our team…
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:10 pm
by AGENT_CLARET
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:10 pm
Maybe Ispwich will be smarter and won't sell every player someone has bid for.
After only one season in the Premier league if they're relegated every asset will have to be as sold to cover the 100m+ they've spent so far
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:11 pm
by Darthlaw
ervi34 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:56 pm
Of course making profit is very important, I never said it wasn't. The problem is when a lot fans start caring about making profit instead of results. You can look at the JBG situation and say - "good deal, we made 1.5m profit", but I'll say that consequence of him leaving (good player, experienced) nullify the money we make. Same can be said for a lot other deals. I don't really care we made 50 % profit on Zaroury and then have 0 fit senior wingers.
My example of Tarkowski was to show that we used to reject bids for our star players. Just like a lot of relegated teams did this summer (SUFC still have their star midfielders, Luton have their keeper, Doughty, forwards). A lot of other clubs managed to do same in the past. Fulham managed to keep Mitrović!
I don't think a single fan puts profit over results. Fans conscious that we need to break even under new FFP rules and being aware that running perpetually at a loss, whilst winning is counterproductive, is something else of course.
SUFC still have Hamer, Luton still have Doughty and we still have Brownhill and Cullen (Currently). All four were signed
whilst in the Championship. Fulham loaned Mitrovic from Newcastle initially
whilst they were in the championship . You may notice a pattern there.
With Tarks (I'll say again - his position is not comparable to that of O'shea et al), it was a lot easier to get him on board whilst we were still in the PL, he was still big fish in a small pond and had no wage reduction. Furthermore he would get a nice fat signing bonus leaving for free regardless of BFC's position at the end of the season.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:14 pm
by BleedingClaret
Raconteur wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:30 pm
I know they missed out on promotion but Leeds still managed to get 90 points and reach the play off final by keeping want away players for another season.
That meant they had to sell this year
But the values went up
So it still worked somewhat
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:15 pm
by burnleymik
It wasn't just his defensive ability we miss, but also his ability is the air at set pieces too and most importantly. his leadership. You could see how badly leadership was needed on the pitch yesterday. Dara was growing into that role superbly.
Feels to me that £15m just wasn't enough for what we lose with him.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:16 pm
by Spijed
Isn't the risk that if we don't get promoted then all money made from transfers has to go towards the debt and nothing else?
Basically will we have any transfer funds at all if we are in the Championship next season?
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:17 pm
by BurnleyFC
I wish him well.
I’m not sure it was a case of Dara wanting away, more like we wanted him away.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:19 pm
by CoolClaret
Spijed wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:16 pm
Isn't the risk that if we don't get promoted then all money made from transfers has to go towards the debt and nothing else?
Basically will we have any transfer funds at all if we are in the Championship next season?
Exactly this, yet expecting minor miracles again as though the promotion in 22-23 was routine stuff.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:20 pm
by Papabendi
ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 12:54 pm
One of them was found horribly wanting last season and the other, while technically good, is too slow.
Wouldn't disagree as it relates to the Prem - but we saw they were good enough for the Championship.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:21 pm
by BurnleyFC
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:11 pm
I don't think a single fan puts profit over results. Fans conscious that we need to break even under new FFP rules and being aware that running perpetually at a loss, whilst winning is counterproductive, is something else of course.
SUFC still have Hamer, Luton still have Doughty and we still have Brownhill and Cullen (Currently). All four were signed
whilst in the Championship. Fulham loaned Mitrovic from Newcastle initially
whilst they were in the championship . You may notice a pattern there.
With Tarks (I'll say again - his position is not comparable to that of O'shea et al), it was a lot easier to get him on board whilst we were still in the PL, he was still big fish in a small pond and had no wage reduction. Furthermore he would get a nice fat signing bonus leaving for free regardless of BFC's position at the end of the season.
Sheffield United signed Hamer whilst in the Premier League, just after we signed Berge.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:23 pm
by Darthlaw
BurnleyFC wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:21 pm
Sheffield United signed Hamer whilst in the Premier League, just after we signed Berge.
I stand corrected. Maybe there's just no interest in him as a quick google doesn't suggest theres been any bids rejected.
Re: ARTICLE: O’Shea joins Ipswich
Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:24 pm
by ervi34
Darthlaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2024 1:11 pm
I don't think a single fan puts profit over results. Fans conscious that we need to break even under new FFP rules and being aware that running perpetually at a loss, whilst winning is counterproductive, is something else of course.
SUFC still have Hamer, Luton still have Doughty and we still have Brownhill and Cullen (Currently). All four were signed
whilst in the Championship. Fulham loaned Mitrovic from Newcastle initially
whilst they were in the championship . You may notice a pattern there.
Sheffield United signed Hamer and Souza (the star midfielders I was referring to) last season. Just like Watford for example signed Sarr while they were in PL. So not sure what the pattern is all about.