Could be the new Marney and Jones for me. I'd play them with Brownhill further forward who will get 10-15 goals in that role.

Fleming possibly in for Foster, Hannibal on the bench.

Laurent was great when he came on

It might sound negative and contradictory but I do think we’d be better with two central midfielders who will sit in and provide a base for us with one ahead playing behind the striker rather than drifting across the pitch.

Brownhill is given license to get forward to add players further up the pitch in attempt to break through the teams who are sitting behind the ball. This then leaves Cullen isolated thus leaving us vulnerable to the counter attack as well as being less likely to pick up the second ball. I thought Portsmouth played this excellently yesterday, sitting in and then not being scared to get bodies forward quickly as our play broke down in the centre/final third.

burnmark wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:07 am

It might sound negative and contradictory but I do think we’d be better with two central midfielders who will sit in and provide a base for us with one ahead playing behind the striker rather than drifting across the pitch.

Brownhill is given license to get forward to add players further up the pitch in attempt to break through the teams who are sitting behind the ball. This then leaves Cullen isolated thus leaving us vulnerable to the counter attack as well as being less likely to pick up the second ball. I thought Portsmouth played this excellently yesterday, sitting in and then not being scared to get bodies forward quickly as our play broke down in the centre/final third.

Otherwise known as the Brownhill conundrum. It's like the Gerrard problem Benitez had at Liverpool amongst others.
We miss him when he doesn't play but we definitely lack a second midfield option when he does play.

I think Kompany had it right playing him further forward.

It’s a real conundrum as for me, in the last three games, Hannibal has been outstanding.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:24 am

It’s a real conundrum as for me, in the last three games, Hannibal has been outstanding.

Interesting thoughts - I thought he was woeful yesterday. Poor for second goal - let his man run off him with ease. In the words of Roy Keane - do your job. Hooked early suggests he didn’t have a good game yesterday in the gaffer’s eyes and the intensity went up noticeably when he and Anthony were withdrawn

All about opinion Robbo - and I respect yours

Laurent was unfortunate not to start does have more of a presence in midfield than Cullen who creates very little
anyone can pass back easy option

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:24 am

It’s a real conundrum as for me, in the last three games, Hannibal has been outstanding.

I think this is a generous assessment.

Laurent wanted to move the ball forward and quickly which was good, he looks a tall strong lad as well, great addition to the squad.

Laurent passes the ball then moves to a new position
Cullen is more of a pivot allowing others to play
Add Brownhill and Hannibal and we have the best midfield options we’ve had for years

LincsWoldsClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:35 am

Laurent passes the ball then moves to a new position
Cullen is more of a pivot allowing others to play
Add Brownhill and Hannibal and we have the best midfield options we’ve had for years

Last year we had Berge, Cullen, Brownhill and Cork as options. That trumps anything we can put out this season.

I'd also argue that Cork and Defour was streets ahead, as was Cork/Westwood at their best. But apart from that maybe..

We improved significantly when Laurent came on, big physical presence and drove forward which Cullen doesn't have the ability to do from deep.
Brownhill in a strange one he will get goals and give energy further forward but then Flemming gave us that when he played that role too.
Hannibal is a strange one some people think he's been brilliant but from what I've seen apart from winding up opponents I haven't seen much else to his game, he's playing forward but doesn't create anything I'm unsure of his role so far.

Goliath wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:39 am

Last year we had Berge, Cullen, Brownhill and Cork as options. That trumps anything we can put out this season.

The Cork of last season never really threatened to displace Berge, Cullen or Brownhill, whereas this season,we have Hannibal, Laurent and (arguably) Flemming to challenge for places. I think that that makes us significantly stronger.
Hopefully we'll have Ramsey and Redmond too by the new year.

Hannibal adds energy and gets about the pitch, Lenny Johnrose style.

I do like him.

Others will offer more.

Cullens passing was poor yesterday. Foster even had a do at him for one under-paced pass.
I do find that when we play slow our passing is slow, poor and short of the target. When we up the tempo we are much better. Laurent definitely got the rest of the team at it after coming on.
I’d still start Cullen as he needs games to get back to his best but what a super option to have on the bench in Laurent.

Cullen didn't look close to fully fit yesterday

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 3:48 pm

Cullen didn't look close to fully fit yesterday

That was definitely not the Josh Cullen we know yesterday.

Laurent is clearly not as capable of taking the ball from defence or threading passes through the lines as Cullen, but maybe against teams that like to play direct and sit in, his presence/aerial ability will prevent them from 'getting out' as much because he can either double up with a defender or directly compete (and win) more 50/50s against an opposition striker than any other midfielder we have. This could help us sustain pressure and keep teams under the cosh.

Similar to how Mourinho used Matic/Fellaini, Pep with Fernandhino & Klopp with Fabinho to nullify our target men/playstyle in the PL under Dyche.

There's no doubt in my mind that replacing Cullen, Hannibal and Anthony with Laurent, Flemming and Sermiento made a positive difference yesterday. Of course, that might not be the case in other games, but all six are going to be Clarets stars this season!

Goliath wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:39 am

Last year we had Berge, Cullen, Brownhill and Cork as options. That trumps anything we can put out this season.

I'd also argue that Cork and Defour was streets ahead, as was Cork/Westwood at their best. But apart from that maybe..

How on earth does Cork come into the equation?.......that's clutching to make a negative point I'd say

Luppy wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:16 am

Interesting thoughts - I thought he was woeful yesterday. Poor for second goal - let his man run off him with ease. In the words of Roy Keane - do your job. Hooked early suggests he didn’t have a good game yesterday in the gaffer’s eyes and the intensity went up noticeably when he and Anthony were withdrawn

All about opinion Robbo - and I respect yours

Which second goal?

With the booking we're picking up , I think they'll all get plenty of games .

Row x wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 7:21 pm

Which second goal?

Bloody hell, and I thought it was the winner at the end.

That’s spoiled it for me

expoultryboy wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:52 pm

With the booking we're picking up , I think they'll all get plenty of games .

All teams are picking up bookings. It’s when the suspensions/injuries come along that odd results get thrown out and our advantage of being able to hold a bigger, stronger squad starts to be seen. Hopefully!

I wanted to see a midfield three of Cullen, Brownhill and Hannibal yesterday, but forgot Hannibal was even playing until about 20 minutes in.

Thought Laurent did really well yesterday, some forward passing but he also drove forward with the ball which Cullen/browny don’t have the physique to do & got us 10/20 yards up the pitch - We miss Beyer for that.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:48 pm

I wanted to see a midfield three of Cullen, Brownhill and Hannibal yesterday, but forgot Hannibal was even playing until about 20 minutes in.

Me too. Was impressed with Parkers selection.

I thought Hannibal did well and actually at HT heard loads of people commenting him, saying he looks a good player and had had a good half so surprised to see some were less impressed on here.

That said, we looked better when he went off

I’d say keep it the same for Oxford, bar Sarmiento for Anthony, but give Laurent 30 minutes again and see if he repeats his performance. It’s getting to the point you can’t leave him out, in which case someone will have to lose their place.

JR1882 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:14 pm

Thought Laurent did really well yesterday, some forward passing but he also drove forward with the ball which Cullen/browny don’t have the physique to do & got us 10/20 yards up the pitch - We miss Beyer for that.

Good point about Beyer.

Worrall has looked very decent defensively but doesn’t drive forward like Beyer did and is very slow on the ball.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:18 pm

Good point about Beyer.

Worrall has looked very decent defensively but doesn’t drive forward like Beyer did and is very slow on the ball.

Except for the assist for the winner…

Selby Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:48 pm

Except for the assist for the winner…

Fair point. That was another 5 yard sideways pass though, just a bit quicker than the rest

I like him, don’t get me wrong. We look far more assured with him at the back, I just find passing wise he could’ve picked many more progressive options had he moved to ball quicker.

I like Laurent but I wouldn't trust him to receive the ball from the back line with an opposition player up his backside as well as Cullen can.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:54 pm

Fair point. That was another 5 yard sideways pass though, just a bit quicker than the rest

I like him, don’t get me wrong. We look far more assured with him at the back, I just find passing wise he could’ve picked many more progressive options had he moved to ball quicker.

Odd from Worrall yesterday, as I thought he started the game delivering some decent spraying passes out but then seemed to become more nervous and stopped doing it. I think he’s a solid defensive option but Beyer will give us more at this level when he’s fit.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:37 pm

Odd from Worrall yesterday, as I thought he started the game delivering some decent spraying passes out but then seemed to become more nervous and stopped doing it. I think he’s a solid defensive option but Beyer will give us more at this level when he’s fit.

Be prepared for Worrall for most of the season then. Beyer aint coming back soon.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:37 pm

Odd from Worrall yesterday, as I thought he started the game delivering some decent spraying passes out but then seemed to become more nervous and stopped doing it. I think he’s a solid defensive option but Beyer will give us more at this level when he’s fit.

Worrall seems to be taking the brunt of the stick for the slow build up and sideways passes but I would say esteve was equally as guilty for not taking the ball forwards

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:18 pm

Good point about Beyer.

Worrall has looked very decent defensively but doesn’t drive forward like Beyer did and is very slow on the ball.

I’m unhappy every time Steve has 30yds of empty grass in front of him but chooses to pass sideways to Worrall. If it’s not his natural game fair enough,I don’t expect Beckenbauer, but if he carries it somebody has to come out to close him down and this could leave space for one of our lads to get into to progress us up the field.

Laurent is an inspirered signing a class cm who is a good ball winner and actually goes forward with the ball. We are still playing VK nonsense of sideways passes across the back which breaks up our attacks with this ponderous dithering

Selby Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:48 pm

Except for the assist for the winner…

I thought that was Flemming, but only seen it once on a small screen

It's surprising that Stoke fans weren't impressed with Laurent, or maybe they're only in a minority. Forums aften distort reality.

dvalley69 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:01 am

Be prepared for Worrall for most of the season then. Beyer aint coming back soon.

A fully fit Egan will challenge Worrall for a centre back birth. No doubt about that.

Swizzlestick wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 11:37 pm

Odd from Worrall yesterday, as I thought he started the game delivering some decent spraying passes out but then seemed to become more nervous and stopped doing it. I think he’s a solid defensive option but Beyer will give us more at this level when he’s fit.

Possibly correct on Beyer.

I’ve seen a few saying we miss his runs in to midfield. I agree and used to enjoy them myself but conversely didn’t really ever think they amounted to much. I tended to just play a 5 yard sideways pass (often over hit) after a great run.

I think Worrall probably doesn’t have the ability to run with it like Beyer does, but my point is he could’ve been equally as effective with the ball if he just moved it a bit faster and dinked balls in behind more when the run was made (he missed a few good opportunities).

I’m fine with some passing it around the back but feel we just needed to up the tempo a bit more often and put the ball at risk more occasionally (a Dycheism).

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:59 am

I’m unhappy every time Steve has 30yds of empty grass in front of him but chooses to pass sideways to Worrall. If it’s not his natural game fair enough,I don’t expect Beckenbauer, but if he carries it somebody has to come out to close him down and this could leave space for one of our lads to get into to progress us up the field.

To me there’s a simple solution if Worrall and Esteve are not so comfortable carrying the ball.

When they have space they should carry but the next pass should always be dinked in behind to a winger. This allows them to play it early, before being pressed and means our team know where it’ll end up every time they see them carrying it, so they can set up and time their runs accordingly.

I don’t want to see our CBs closed down and out of position too often, so I’m fine with it being occasional but we need a play/pattern we execute every time and not a rushed 5 yard pass to a midfielder (which is what Beyer often did).

Fretters wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:51 am

Could be the new Marney and Jones for me. I'd play them with Brownhill further forward who will get 10-15 goals in that role.

Fleming possibly in for Foster, Hannibal on the bench.

Exactly my thoughts as well. I'm not sure what Hannibal's role is yet. He wasn't really in the game on Saturday. I think he had one moment in the first half which lead to the Foster blocked shot, but other than that I don't think he influenced the game whatsoever. I'm not convinced he's a no.10. yet, I suspect he'd be better playing deeper. Brownhill and Cullen are 100% starters though, and going what we've seen to date, I'd have Laurent above Hannibal.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:00 pm

To me there’s a simple solution if Worrall and Esteve are not so comfortable carrying the ball.

When they have space they should carry but the next pass should always be dinked in behind to a winger. This allows them to play it early, before being pressed and means our team know where it’ll end up every time they see them carrying it, so they can set up and time their runs accordingly.

I don’t want to see our CBs closed down and out of position too often, so I’m fine with it being occasional but we need a play/pattern we execute every time and not a rushed 5 yard pass to a midfielder (which is what Beyer often did).

I’d agree with all of that except “always”. At this level if you do something always the opposition soon pick up on it.

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:59 am

I’m unhappy every time Steve has 30yds of empty grass in front of him but chooses to pass sideways to Worrall. If it’s not his natural game fair enough,I don’t expect Beckenbauer, but if he carries it somebody has to come out to close him down and this could leave space for one of our lads to get into to progress us up the field.

Steve’s recovery pace & positional sense means he can play very high risk, he always seems to bail himself out.

Posted this on another thread but until Portsmouth tired late on, there weren't a lot of gaps for anyone to break the lines by driving in possession - particulary not the centre halves - because we didn't make the pitch big enough. In particular, the wide players didn't seem to me to hold their width enough (and didn't stay high early in our build up) and we didn't get full backs high enough up the pitch early on. Under Kompany it was common to see the full backs pushed up beyond half way when we had the ball at the feet of the centre backs or goalkeeper, with Cullen (and/or another central midfielder) dropping in. That made it a lot easier for us to create the space to play out because either the opposition let those wide players have some space (in which case we dropped the ball to them and had got round their press), or they moved towards them and created spaces in the middle for our defensive players to drive into. On Saturday on the rare occasions Esteve did try and drive forwards he was running into traffic because we hadn't stretched Portsmouth enough.

That all makes it sound easy - but it isn't, it comes with practice and it comes with risk unless it is really well practised - you are backing yourself to be good enough on the ball that the team can spread and accept the risk that players are out of the game if you lose the ball. There are probably some small adjustments we can make in the first instance - Koleosho needs to stay higher and wider, for example - but I suspect that ultimately it will come with time on the coaching pitch and it may well be that Parker will be the sort of coach who takes the handbrake off more gradually than Kompany did.

For the time being I'd like to see us get a midfielder closer to Foster in our build up and had we done that, I suspect that would have in itself created some more space because Marlon Pack (their holding midfielder who played just in front of the back four) would have been occupied. As it was when we had the ball at the back he was essentially spare and blocking the ball into Foster, allowing their centre backs to block the space behind and giving their forward midfielders more scope to go man for man with Brownhill and Hannibal whilst their striker locked onto Cullen. It often left Worrall and Esteve free but with no pass on and no space to run into. I don't particularly see how Laurent (who I think is a good player) helps with all that, and I think Cullen (when fully fit) is the first name on our team sheet precisely because of his ability to link our build up play together from deep. Brownhill is captain so I suspect Laurent may have to bide his time and I wouldn't be surprised if he's been signed with an eye on Brownhill likely departing next year. Brownhill could play off the striker, but unless we're playing Flemming as the number 9 I don't think that gets the best out of Brownhill or Foster. Flemming, who has mainly operated as a number 10, is by some distance the obvious candidate for that role. It is no accident that when he came on in that role, whilst he didn't have lots of touches of the ball, it all of a sudden created a good deal more space around the pitch for us. It also improved our pressing.

There is also a point about how quickly we move the ball (when an attack broke down there was often a chance to recycle the ball quickly and too often we allowed Pompey to reset and get into that shape) but again, that will come with familiarity.

Row x wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 7:21 pm

Which second goal?

No idea why I put second goal - going senile.....

Fretters wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:51 am

Could be the new Marney and Jones for me. I'd play them with Brownhill further forward who will get 10-15 goals in that role.

Fleming possibly in for Foster, Hannibal on the bench.

See?

I don't want to see him play the holding role again. It basically highlights his weaknesses and masks his strengths. Him and Cullen do seem to have the best balance with Brownhill upfront.

Don't think Hannibal will be too happy tonight!

Goliath wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:29 pm

I don't want to see him play the holding role again. It basically highlights his weaknesses and masks his strengths. Him and Cullen do seem to have the best balance with Brownhill upfront.

Don't think Hannibal will be too happy tonight!

But probably happier than you based on the overview of your posts

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:23 pm

But probably happier than you based on the overview of your posts

I'm delighted. We are top of the league whilst not playing well. I like to discuss the intricacies of football not just clap like a seal everytime Burnley win.