Just read this from Brownhill in the Burnley Express:

“You could hear that frustration towards the end and that does nothing for us, that doesn’t help us at all. We need everyone to stick with us.

“We were creating chances, we were biding our time to go forward. We can kick it long, they can head it out for a throw and that would be even more frustrating, so it’s about waiting for the right time”.

Mixed feelings about this. In the one hand, I think it’s reasonable for the fans to expect to see more urgency, tempo and attacking intent than we saw first half. Maybe if we’d seen that and grabbed a goal we’d have not been in a position to be frustrated. I also think a little unrest from the crowd does help apply a little bit of pressure to go on and create.

That said, do agree that being direct won’t help either and patient build up probably is the best way to break a team down, which fans should probably be more aware and accepting of.

Also feel the fans are maybe expecting to turn over some teams too much and that we need a bit of an expectation reset, given who we’ve sold and where we are in terms of our development.

Discuss…

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:20 pm

Just read this from Brownhill in the Burnley Express:

“You could hear that frustration towards the end and that does nothing for us, that doesn’t help us at all. We need everyone to stick with us.

“We were creating chances, we were biding our time to go forward. We can kick it long, they can head it out for a throw and that would be even more frustrating, so it’s about waiting for the right time”.

Mixed feelings about this. In the one hand, I think it’s reasonable for the fans to expect to see more urgency, tempo and attacking intent than we saw first half. Maybe if we’d seen that and grabbed a goal we’d have not been in a position to be frustrated. I also think a little unrest from the crowd does help apply a little bit of pressure to go on and create.

That said, do agree that being direct won’t help either and patient build up probably is the best way to break a team down, which fans should probably be more aware and accepting of.

Also feel the fans are maybe expecting to turn over some teams too much and that we need a bit of an expectation reset, given who we’ve sold and where we are in terms of our development.

Discuss…

I think it's a fair point that the crowd getting restless can affect players.

From my point of view, I've no issue with the slow build up if it's evident how we're looking to turn that into attack but on Saturday, and the 2nd half v Blackburn, I couldn't see it. I appreciate the team needs to click (as it did 2 years ago).

I would like to see us mix it up a bit more. Koleosho was looking to make a run for a ball over the top on Saturday but nobody tried it.

Mentioned on another thread that pass in behind was on for Worrall at least twice and not attempted.

Thats why I slightly disagree with Browny here. The players also need to up the tempo a bit and put the ball at risk a tad more from the off.

Then I think the patient play in between would be more accepted.

It’s a tough one - he’s not wrong in what he’s saying but we’re only human. It’s hard to watch us sideways passing along the backline vs getting on the front foot without getting frustrated.

The patience will come with time and understand what our game plan is I believe.

He's bang on right for me.....

Groans and Moans will not help the team ..... it's not 1991 ... football and the way it's played has moved on....

Scott Parker has stressed several times that we need to stick with them through the good and bad times....

They needed a lift yesterday... not knocking ....

To be fair a lot of the crowd was urging them on.... but the moaners shout the loudest.....

Players will only end up resenting fans behind closed doors and often wonder if it's this kind of thing that has stopped him signing a new contract yet...

UTC

I have never been on a game before and been anything other than positive. If my thoughts are negative I just keep them to myself.
Literally the only thing a fan can do to help is be positive.

People say "I've payed my money I've every right to share my thoughts" but I think I've got every right to **** in my hands and clap but I don't want to.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:31 pm

Mentioned on another thread that pass in behind was on for Worrall at least twice and not attempted.

Thats why I slightly disagree with Browny here. The players also need to up the tempo a bit and put the ball at risk a tad more from the off.

Then I think the patient play in between would be more accepted.

I agree, I saw openings too .... we have a better view at times ...

Also - he missed a couple of passes to LK and the groans kicked in.... which makes players stop trying those passes ....

so it's a tough one

I think the frustration stemmed from the continued slow and ponderous passing along the back line.
We know it’s the way we have become accustomed to playing but it’s a tough watch. Particularly, when at times we were in positive forward positions and then the player turned and played backwards. Brownhill in particular. When a forward driving run would have surprised them and given us the initiative.

Agree to a certain extent but Koleosho was making a diagonal run in behind so many times and it was just missed so many times.

Esteve to Worrall to Esteve and back on repeat is going to get people frustrated.

When we have two of the fastest players in the league out wide there does need to be a mixing it up element sometimes.

Mixedkompany wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:36 pm

I think the frustration stemmed from the continued slow and ponderous passing along the back line.
We know it’s the way we have become accustomed to playing but it’s a tough watch. Particularly, when at times we were in positive forward positions and then the player turned and played backwards. Brownhill in particular. When a forward driving run would have surprised them and given us the initiative.

Yeah, overall I’d like the message in camp this week to be that the players need to avoid that scenario by being a bit more progressive from the off.

I think it’s a fair point Browny is making. I think sometimes we don’t fully understand the tactics or what they’re trying to achieve, but also fair for fans to say they expect a bit more purpose, positivity and variety to our play. It’s not big margins, just 20% more, and the rest of the patient play can remain, but would probably be met with less frustration.

Newty wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:32 pm

I have never been on a game before and been anything other than positive. If my thoughts are negative I just keep them to myself.
Literally the only thing a fan can do to help is be positive.

People say "I've payed my money I've every right to share my thoughts" but I think I've got every right to **** in my hands and clap but I don't want to.

It would definitely be helpful to the atmosphere, and probably the results, if everyone chose to sing the moment they went to groan…

He has every right to have a bit of a pop imo. He said it in his post-match presser... Some of the entitled attitudes that have crept into a significant % of the fanbase is disappointing.

I understand what Josh is saying, but I think the frustration comes from the current desire for all teams to play out from the back all the time - even if it leads to nothing. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

There were countless opportunities in the first half to go more direct in order to get Anthony or Koleosho in behind the full back, but we just seemed to ignore doing this. We also broke their press a couple of times by playing two or three neat passes, only to end up passing back to either Worrall or Esteve again. We aren't progressive enough yet, and we weren't under VK at this point either, but hopefully it'll come.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:51 pm

He has every right to have a bit of a pop imo. He said it in his post-match presser... Some of the entitled attitudes that have crept into a significant % of the fanbase is disappointing.

Did he say that ?

Fair play

Kompany made similar implications in Mission to Burnley.
He said in one of the teamtalks something alone the lines of them never playing to the crowd, continuing instead to play his way.
I think it's more of an English football crowd thing rather than a Burnley issue. The majority want some tempo to the game not this very slow sideways stuff.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:43 pm

It would definitely be helpful to the atmosphere, and probably the results, if everyone chose to sing the moment they went to groan…

Totally agree -

In a similar fashion, I vividly recall the Newcastle game at home towards the end of the 2021-2022 season. We desperately needed a win to avoid relegation. As soon as we fell behind by a goal, so many fans had their heads in their hands and went completely silent; with some even giving me strange looks when I tried to lift the atmosphere.

Not sure how being silent or groaning in crunch moments does anything to help the team (well, we know it infact does the opposite) - I find it really strange behaviour!

I think our fans expect us to steam roll teams every week. Sometimes you need to grind out results in this league. Pompey have an excellent away record over last 12 months. They’ve had good draws away at Leeds and Boro. Not easy to create chances when they are camped round their area. As Leeds found out last week

The Shire Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:53 pm

Did he say that ?

Fair play

Sorry might have crossed wires there -

He didn't say 'a significant % of the fanbase...', I meant that the quotes from Brownhill in the OP came from his post-match presser with the club.

I just think that there has been an entitled element that has crept in, I find it frustrating and not really what Clarets are about.

Expectations are high - he, the manager and other players have said promotion is the number one aim this season.

Dealing with that pressure is all part of the process.

helmclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:02 pm

Expectations are high - he, the manager and other players have said promotion is the number one aim this season.

Dealing with that pressure is all part of the process.

I totally agree, but there's some nuance in there. I don't think some fans understand just how hard Parker's start has been at the club.

He had 4 weeks to get up to speed with the team and fully prep them/rush pre-season, and then 2 weeks later, he basically had to do it all again.

Given the context, Parker has done a sensational job so far to have the team on 13 points after 6 games.

I do agree to an extent but it is hard when the football is so risk averse. It's just so safe. We need to be showing more risk tolerance when you consider we do have one of the more talented squads in the league.

This is why i am not comparing this start to the Kompany Championship season.
Yes i agree the results weren't there at the beginning but we could clearly see what we were aiming for. Patterns of play, full of risk, it was just a case of " when it clicks"

I will happily take this style though if it keeps getting results.

I think the crowd has been incredibly patient for the last 12 months all things considered.

I think he's in a position to make this point because it all ended well and we won the game, but had we not, I suspect he would have been on less solid ground and probably wouldn't have said it. I do get that 20,000 people collectively groaning when someone plays a particular pass (probably doing as instructed tbf) doesn't help the players, but then again, those 20,000 people are only human and it's difficult to help it.

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:07 pm

I do agree to an extent but it is hard when the football is so risk averse. It's just so safe. We need to be showing more risk tolerance when you consider we do have one of the more talented squads in the league.

This is why i am not comparing this start to the Kompany Championship season.
Yes i agree the results weren't there at the beginning but we could clearly see what we were aiming for. Patterns of play, full of risk, it was just a case of " when it clicks"

I will happily take this style though if it keeps getting results.

I don’t understand this tbh. It’s been pretty clear to me the strategy at Leeds and Luton (which worked). And this idea that there have been no patterns of play in other games, I’d suggest going back and watching Foster’s goal v Rovers, 17 passes, including Worrall to Esteve, or Brownhill’s goal against Cardiff, another really well worked, back to front goal leading to a 1 v1.

6 games in with Kompany and we had 6.3 xG, right now it’s 4.8. One game basically being a write off (Sunderland) so it skews the figure lower. So from a chance creation perspective we are performing very similarly, and have probably had the 1. harder fixtures 2. a FAR messier end to the transfer window. It’s already been said on the other thread but we weren’t a real fluid attacking unit until after the World Cup break.

If he put as much effort into his game that he does to his haircut and eyebrows the guy would be a world beater.

I can’t remember a poorer captain for Burnley. Best he keeps away from statements and just continues to be anonymous running around.

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:07 pm

I do agree to an extent but it is hard when the football is so risk averse. It's just so safe. We need to be showing more risk tolerance when you consider we do have one of the more talented squads in the league.

This is why i am not comparing this start to the Kompany Championship season.
Yes i agree the results weren't there at the beginning but we could clearly see what we were aiming for. Patterns of play, full of risk, it was just a case of " when it clicks"

I will happily take this style though if it keeps getting results.

I disagree a lot with that. Early season under VK was very risk averse IMO. It felt like possession first, second and third at times and if a pass was anything less than 100%, it wasn't attempted.

JR1882 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:09 pm

I think the crowd has been incredibly patient for the last 12 months all things considered.

I was just thinking that myself. They got an incredibly easy ride from the fans last season.

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:20 pm

If he put as much effort into his game that he does to his haircut and eyebrows the guy would be a world beater.

I can’t remember a poorer captain for Burnley. Best he keeps away from statements and just continues to be anonymous running around.

Not often a midfielder who has scored in 3 of the first 6 league games is described as anonymous

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:20 pm

If he put as much effort into his game that he does to his haircut and eyebrows the guy would be a world beater.

I can’t remember a poorer captain for Burnley. Best he keeps away from statements and just continues to be anonymous running around.

Graham Branch

Goliath wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:25 pm

Graham Branch

Well remembered

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:24 pm

Not often a midfielder who has scored in 3 of the first 6 league games is described as anonymous

If you watch him closely he doesn’t really do anything but arrive late for a tap in at this level.

If /when we get promoted you won’t notice him for 90 minutes i can guarantee you apart from losing the ball in dangerous positions. It’s a fun little game try it.

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:20 pm

If he put as much effort into his game that he does to his haircut and eyebrows the guy would be a world beater.

I can’t remember a poorer captain for Burnley. Best he keeps away from statements and just continues to be anonymous running around.

Couldn't disagree with you more .... not all heros wear capes and not all captains have to have bad haircuts

3 goals and works his socks off on and off the ball ....

I think we have been patient over the last twelve months and patience with a new manager in very trying circumstances needs to be not confused with patience over a 90 min period.

Many fans dont know the attacking game plan as laid out by SP and not a single shot on target in the first half whilst losing to a promoted side.

As good as they were defensively - what we’re missing this season is that Tella-Muric ball over the top and goal to unlock these tougher sides.

i think Brownhill has played particularly well so far this season, cant fault him.

he's right in his comments too, our support is **** poor. slow build up is about maximizing the opportunity. hoofing it forward is about as outdated as some of the people on this messageboard.

anyone watching could clearly see that we were in prime position to get a winner in that game.

fair play browhill, continue to call out these miserable lot, probably had a moan before leaving at 85mins and sprint to be the first to reach their cars

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:18 pm

I don’t understand this tbh. It’s been pretty clear to me the strategy at Leeds and Luton (which worked). And this idea that there have been no patterns of play in other games, I’d suggest going back and watching Foster’s goal v Rovers, 17 passes, including Worrall to Esteve, or Brownhill’s goal against Cardiff, another really well worked, back to front goal leading to a 1 v1.

6 games in with Kompany and we had 6.3 xG, right now it’s 4.8. One game basically being a write off (Sunderland) so it skews the figure lower. So from a chance creation perspective we are performing very similarly, and have probably had the 1. harder fixtures 2. a FAR messier end to the transfer window. It’s already been said on the other thread but we weren’t a real fluid attacking unit until after the World Cup break.

I stand by my stance that we are playing risk averse football.

That is not me slagging it off. I will happily take it, if it gets results.

I am not going to lie to myself and say it is risky

Considering the current trajectory of our home performances this season (they're getting worse each game) I'd probably look a bit closer to home rather than questioning the fans, to be honest.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:21 pm

I disagree a lot with that. Early season under VK was very risk averse IMO. It felt like possession first, second and third at times and if a pass was anything less than 100%, it wasn't attempted.

We was baiting the press from day 1.
We also had THB playing defence splitting passes from the edge of his own area.
Beyer was taking on players from the edge of his own area to try and create space.

Would you not say that is risk tolerant?

Suggestions that our current play along the back line is the same as 2 years ago are fatuous.

Atm we're static in comparison and without a ball carrier.... 2 years ago we had 3 defenders keen to drive forward most of the time...right now you get the impression that nobody wants to take the opposition on....

If its a quality issue then we have to cut our cloth...but surely by mixing it up a bit we can make ourselves a bit less predictable...Foster and Flemming look capable of being a nuiscance given a few long balls to chase.

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:42 pm

I stand by my stance that we are playing risk averse football.

That is not me slagging it off. I will happily take it, if it gets results.

I am not going to lie to myself and say it is risky

Fine, but then surely we can’t go with Kompany’s football in the first 6 games being ‘risky’? Or are you just referring to Muric playing it out?

Here’s the OP of a thread titled ‘Possession Cup’ in those early days:

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:41 pm

What do we win for having the most possession at the end of this season?

It’s all well and good VK bringing City influences but everything is so slow and laboured, every game we’ve allowed teams to get everyone behind the ball before we make forward moves and it’s the same result every time.

So so poor in the final third again tonight.

And one of the replies

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:33 pm

We need our attackers to be a bit more braver and run forward and commit players. Still a lot of safety first and passing sideways and backwards so far. Still a lot of time for there to be 3 or 4 new players in our lineup come September.

Never understood why fans get so pissy about a player stating the obvious that frustrated moans and groans are less conducive to motivating the players than support.

if they are training all week to play a certain way/style, they're not going to change it themselves as players because the crowd gets restless, and moans and groans can be heard clearly by the players. However, if they hear clapping and encouragement, then perhaps, just perhaps it will help somewhat, of course it doesn't mean certain goals, but........

How many times have we heard of managers saying they want to silence the crowd, bring the moans and groans to put pressure on players, it's certainly a tactic that is used, we just need to decide if we want to be known as the fans who can be rattled.

Having said that, I've been there, I've been guilty of groaning, being frustrated and shouting out for passes/crosses and shots. It's definitely not easy to clap/cheer when it's going side to side and backwards, however if we get frustrated, so must the players, what would we be saying if players got frustrated and started shouting arguing with teammates for not selecting the right through ball, to the point of saying/acting like it's not worth the effort??

Of course, everyone pays their money and has a right to voice an opinion, it's always going to be the individual's decision, but for me there is nothing better than roaring your team on, and being part of the action.

Don't know if was just me, but I wasn't happy that Flemming didn't start and very surprised it took so long to bring him on.

Re switching play quickly. We spent a fortune last year on young potential for similar positions. Massive mistake in not signing up THB imo.

The only problem is Browny, we are now treated as customers now.
We pay a lot of money to watch and you lot get paid a hell of a lot to perform and entertain.

If the fans aren't happy, then improve.

Not like it's been abusive.

We never heard a peep from the lads that finished seventh in the premier league, just saying.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:48 pm

Fine, but then surely we can’t go with Kompany’s football in the first 6 games being ‘risky’? Or are you just referring to Muric playing it out?

We was baiting the press from day 1.
We also had THB playing defence splitting passes from the edge of his own area.
Beyer was taking on players from the edge of his own area to try and create space.

I would also say the positioning and movement of Maatsen was risky.
Cullen was trying risky forward passes from day 1.

Even some of the goals from early that season shows the risk
https://youtu.be/WzpuUrXtOP4?si=9XoO7WF-LijN3iGD

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:48 pm

We was baiting the press from day 1.
We also had THB playing defence splitting passes from the edge of his own area.
Beyer was taking on players from the edge of his own area to try and create space.

Would you not say that is risk tolerant?

Beyer didn't make his debut until the 9th game of the season.

We may have beaten the press but I also saw us many times play backwards and sideways passes from decent attacking positions rather than a more positive, but riskier option. I think where we are now and where we were then is very comparable.

Superjohnnyfrancis wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:32 pm

If you watch him closely he doesn’t really do anything but arrive late for a tap in at this level.

If /when we get promoted you won’t notice him for 90 minutes i can guarantee you apart from losing the ball in dangerous positions. It’s a fun little game try it.

You think the Luton or Portsmouth goals were tap ins ?

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:51 pm

Never understood why fans get so pissy about a player stating the obvious that frustrated moans and groans are less conducive to motivating the players than support.

We won the game , so obviously the moans and groans worked and motivated the players .

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:09 pm

You think the Luton or Portsmouth goals were tap ins ?

I’m more interested in what you think.

Our slow motion ball retention at the back is frustrating to the supporters. We get the working to create space but to do this the pace of the actual pass has to be firm at least. The tippy tappy slow motion passes only put pressure on us and often lead to Trafford having to clear under pressure. Speed it up boys