Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

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ElectroClaret
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Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ElectroClaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:54 pm

Last 20 minutes or so was like chalk and cheese compared to the previous 70.

Mystery why we can't do it from the off.

UTC

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:56 pm

It's because we set up with Hannibal as some sort of number 10 which everyone but the gaffer can see he ain't. We were beyond turgid.

When we went 442 and actually looked to attack them directly, look what happened.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:57 pm

I think our aim is to keep it tight.

I’m of the opinion we’d be far better attacking teams from the off.
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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 pm

Negative tactics really. No striker on the pitch then as soon as we add one we score, then add another and are constantly threatening.

Parker just needs to be braver. He gets a lot right but Hull were there for the taking tonight.

Lesson - in this league when all players are behind the ball the space is wide to the byline then cross to a big striker or two.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by jedi_master » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:59 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:54 pm
Last 20 minutes or so was like chalk and cheese compared to the previous 70.

Mystery why we can't do it from the off.

UTC
Hannibal is absolutely the problem - not his fault he’s being played in that position though. Surely can play deeper? Even then though, he’s just not as good a footballer as Cullen or Brownhill or as effective as Laurent. Put simply, he is not in our best eleven.
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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by BigF » Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:59 pm

But we are often poor at crossing the ball.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:00 pm

Can’t see it happening but I’d be tempted to drop Hannibal and go with Andreas and Flemming on Saturday

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by bfccrazy » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:01 pm

Koleosho running into players and passing to opposition after a good run isn't very helpful.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:02 pm

Koleosho is also a big problem too. Constantly running straight into defenders as though they will just move out of the way if runs fast enough at them. Constantly giving the ball away with some truly appalling passes. He's just not got a brain for football, he's all pace.

Neither him nor Hannibal should be in our best eleven right now. We were far better balanced when the two were finally removed.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:06 pm

Because SP is extremely risk averse. Number one target: don't lose. Secondly, become more attacking only if necessary. I'm not (at this stage) knocking it seeing as we're second in the league and have only lost once. However, with the squad available, I will be knocking it if we start letting poor and average sides get their noses in front and we're constantly having to chase games, not always managing it and find we're sliding down the table.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by boatshed bill » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:08 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:06 pm
Because SP is extremely risk averse. Number one target: don't lose. Secondly, become more attacking only if necessary. I'm not (at this stage) knocking it seeing as we're second in the league and have only lost once. However, with the squad available, I will be knocking it if we start letting poor and average sides get their noses in front and we're constantly having to chase games, not always managing it and find we're sliding down the table.
Risk averse for sure, but are our players really much better than tier 2?

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:12 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:08 pm
Risk averse for sure, but are our players really much better than tier 2?
I actually THINK they (collectively) are, but they have to be selected and used in the right way and the tactics from the manager have to be right.
As I said, I'm not knocking Parker as things stand because we're sitting second and apparently have 4 more points than we did after 11 games under VK, but I feel if we become too "dour" things could easily become unstuck. We could go either way as things stand.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:16 pm

It's very hard to see why Laurent didn't start this evening. SP does seem to be risk averse but then he made a lot of quite brave substitutions in the second half.

You can identify a few tweaks here and there but fundamentally I can't see why Laurent didn't start other than he is not fit enough to play two games in a week.

Whatever the reason we improved as soon as he came on. Bit disappointing really because I thought we made progress on Saturday and had we played the same team and been as turgid then you could say one step forward and one back but the fact is we played the same team that has not really gelled in 3 of the last 4 games.

And SP must see it or he wouldn't have made the changes he did after an hour.
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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ClaretPete001 » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:17 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:08 pm
Risk averse for sure, but are our players really much better than tier 2?
Certainly, not the squad that VK had...

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:19 pm

There definitely was a massive increase in the tempo as we successfully chased an equaliser and at the end when they tired and we sensed a winner.
Parker utilised his squad tonight and I think we will see changes again on Saturday with notably Lauren back in the team for Hannibal and Koleosho rested

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:22 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:54 pm
Last 20 minutes or so was like chalk and cheese compared to the previous 70.

Mystery why we can't do it from the off.

UTC
I thought we started well albeit not for long.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:25 pm

Petrified to concede. We've played well twice this season and are somehow second, take the shackles off and for the love of god stop playing Hannibal as a number ten. We have some really really good players for this league but play like we don't.
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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by blatherwickstattoos » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:26 pm

Parker tells them to. Having one striker on the pitch that’s told not to move or get In behind really slows down approach play. We end up going backwards and sideways. We looked far more dangerous with 2 strikers or flemming in the hole in the last 15 than we did the whole game.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by JohnDearyMe » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:27 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:59 pm
Hannibal is absolutely the problem - not his fault he’s being played in that position though. Surely can play deeper? Even then though, he’s just not as good a footballer as Cullen or Brownhill or as effective as Laurent. Put simply, he is not in our best eleven.
Agree, he runs around a lot but he lacks quality and a footballing brain. Disappointing signing to date.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by RVclaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:36 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:25 pm
Petrified to concede. We've played well twice this season and are somehow second, take the shackles off and for the love of god stop playing Hannibal as a number ten. We have some really really good players for this league but play like we don't.
We haven’t played well just twice this season. Hannibal has not been playing as a number 10. Not sure we have that many really, really good players for this league. Only really Esteve who looks a cut above.
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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by beddie » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:37 pm

The problem is Hannibal. His final ball is poor. Laurent in his place with Brownhill further up. Poor management tonight.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Neil » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:37 pm

I like how Parker has no problem with making changes around the hour mark as opposed to Dyche and Kompany who'd both wait til about the 88th minute, but slightly worried that's he's not making the right starting 11 selection.

It's about this time of the season that the Kompamy promotion team really gelled after similar frustrating draws to tonight. However, that team had match winners that could turn draws into wins. I hope this team can produce them too but it doesn't look as likely at the moment.

I share the opinion that this midfield 3 is not working and something has to change and based on performances this season, I'd be tempted to try Hannibal further back at the expense of Cullen. Push Brownhill further forward as he's the best finisher of the 3.

Not too downhearted overall but really hope Parker takes the reigns off a bit. I understand the caution as we had to turn around the losing mentality of last season but there's really nothing to fear in this league.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:46 pm

We are all saying the same things but lets not forget we have dropped 4 points from last minute sitters yet are still on trend for automatic promotion at 2 pts per game, we have played 6 away and 5 at home, and we have also played the best 2 other sides both away as well as a side just down from the Premier.

It is a bit Safegate-esque but he gets away with it if it gets us up.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by KRBFC » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:52 pm

Negative boring tactics

Everyone but Parker can see that midfield three doesn’t work together

Koleosho is twice the player on the left but he’s forced on the right to accommodate Anthony… who is very average

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:52 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:36 pm
We haven’t played well just twice this season. Hannibal has not been playing as a number 10. Not sure we have that many really, really good players for this league. Only really Esteve who looks a cut above.
I'd argue Roberts, Esteve, Brownhill, Cullen walk into every single team in this league. No idea what you are watching

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by BabylonClaret » Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:52 pm
Negative boring tactics

Everyone but Parker can see that midfield three doesn’t work together

Koleosho is twice the player on the left but he’s forced on the right to accommodate Anthony… who is very average
What Anthony who set up the equaliser and almost got the winner bar a miskick? Koleosho is a real enigma- he consistently chooses the wrong option

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by BigGaz » Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:20 pm

Personally I don't understand the discourse that Koleosho is or was outputting anything different on the other side of the pitch. CBA going back through my post history but as far back as Forest away last year in his first few appearances I was saying (and not just me, not like I was the lone canary in the coalmine) that he looks extremely threatening without actually being threatening and wondering what he was doing that was warranting Zaroury being totally phased out.

I saw someone saying earlier that fundamentals are easy to teach but the player he most reminds me of is Adama Traore. That lad is pushing 30 now and everyone was waiting for years for him to marry the technical ability to his undoubted physical and dribbling ability and become the unstoppable force he might have been but it never happened. It doesn't for some.

To me he is our first choice starter because we haven't got anyone else. At the minute. Neither Anthony nor Sarmiento are the answer, long term and when Ramsey, Benson and Redmond start making their way back I think he is going to be of most use for us as someone who is going to come on for the last 20 against a tiring defence. At least until he (hopefully) sorts out his final ball and decision making.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by superdimitri » Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:36 am

BigGaz wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 11:20 pm
Personally I don't understand the discourse that Koleosho is or was outputting anything different on the other side of the pitch. CBA going back through my post history but as far back as Forest away last year in his first few appearances I was saying (and not just me, not like I was the lone canary in the coalmine) that he looks extremely threatening without actually being threatening and wondering what he was doing that was warranting Zaroury being totally phased out.

I saw someone saying earlier that fundamentals are easy to teach but the player he most reminds me of is Adama Traore. That lad is pushing 30 now and everyone was waiting for years for him to marry the technical ability to his undoubted physical and dribbling ability and become the unstoppable force he might have been but it never happened. It doesn't for some.

To me he is our first choice starter because we haven't got anyone else. At the minute. Neither Anthony nor Sarmiento are the answer, long term and when Ramsey, Benson and Redmond start making their way back I think he is going to be of most use for us as someone who is going to come on for the last 20 against a tiring defence. At least until he (hopefully) sorts out his final ball and decision making.
I don't think it's just down to him. Part of our game plan just seems to be to get the ball to him as soon as possible and expect him to run past a few players and score like Maradona.

He's just not that good and because we insist on using him as a sole creative outlet it makes it very easy for the opposition to keep him quiet.

There needs to be more variation to our play and less predictability and we need to stop relying on him.

He'll do better to be a bit quieter in games and catch the opposition by surprise rather than running into trouble all the time. Fans love a winger trying to take on their man but the game is a lot more complicated then it used to be.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by CoolClaret » Thu Oct 24, 2024 9:43 am

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:52 pm
Negative boring tactics

Everyone but Parker can see that midfield three doesn’t work together

Koleosho is twice the player on the left but he’s forced on the right to accommodate Anthony… who is very average
Anthony has provided two clear cut chances from the left with two superb balls in for Foster and Flemming respectively, he's getting into it more now and is doing some clever stuff.

Koleosho has a lot to learn, has all the raw elements but is lacking elsewhere.

Of course he should have been allowed to develop more naturally instead of being thrust into the side from the off last season after never playing more than a handful of games (no wonder he got a bad injury) and is now expected to be a stand out player in our team.

He could do with some time on the bench and coming on as an impact player - on either wing.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by MACCA » Thu Oct 24, 2024 10:08 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:52 pm
I'd argue Roberts, Esteve, Brownhill, Cullen walk into every single team in this league. No idea what you are watching
Cases for Trafford and Fleming too, without looking at Luca or when Ramsey and Tresor are fit, they're going to be big additions

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Row x » Thu Oct 24, 2024 10:21 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:58 pm
Negative tactics really. No striker on the pitch then as soon as we add one we score, then add another and are constantly threatening.

Parker just needs to be braver. He gets a lot right but Hull were there for the taking tonight.

Lesson - in this league when all players are behind the ball the space is wide to the byline then cross to a big striker or two.
Both players involved in the goal started the game, so I don't understand your opening point.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Thu Oct 24, 2024 10:39 am

I honestly believe the plan is to get to HT at 0-0. If we score it’s a bonus. Tactics change after HT dependent on the score.
We look so much better when pushing onto teams and it’s a shame SP hasn’t got the confidence in them to let them loose and attack sides. The widemen must be ordered to get early crosses in instead of fannying around before playing it back to FBs who then play it back to CBs and we regurgitate.
Foster has taken so much sh!t on here, including from me, but it is now obvious after seeing Flemming up top that it is lack of service from widemen that don’t deliver.

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Re: Why Does It Take Us So Long To Get Going?

Post by AGENT_CLARET » Thu Oct 24, 2024 12:37 pm

bfccrazy wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2024 10:01 pm
Koleosho running into players and passing to opposition after a good run isn't very helpful.
Koleosho is all fart no sh1t

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