35 goals conceded in the last two promotion seasons under Dyche and Kompany, that's a very admirable 0.76 goals per game. 6 goals in 18 under Parker is 0.33 which is less than half as many. How come this team is so successful defensively?

Is it down to tactics? The quality of the defenders? Is it down to Trafford? I seem to remember Trafford getting quite a lot of criticism on here last season. A lot of people seemed to think that Muric was better.

If you look at the stats on WhoScored the defenders under Dyche got better ratings and were way ahead on clearances, interceptions and long balls but Parker's team just edge it on tackles and are pretty similar to Kompany's team when it comes to passes per game.

Perhaps proof that playing it out from the back isn't such a liability after all and that any mistakes are outweighed by the fact that hoofing it up the field gifts possession to the opposition which means your defenders have to work harder.

Interested to hear what people think is the key factor.

All sorts of reasons

Teams are very cautious against us and allow us the ball quite easily.
We don't commit numbers forward with 3 defensive midfielders employed.
Defenders have been passing it around the back for a few years now so less mistakes.
Luck, a few one on ones went our way at Leeds and Stoke.
Disallowed goals for Preston and Rovers.

Here’s my take,
The first 5 games were challenging and took us to the end of August i.e. the end of the transfer window.

During that time we played Luton (perceived as a likely promotion rival). Cardiff ( trying to play expansive football). Sunderland + Leeds (who have both proved to be top Championship sides) and a local derby against another side with ideas above their station.

11 goals scored, 4 goals conceded but important players transferred.

A watershed……….

Subsequently ( probably because of our impressive start) opponents have set up defensively against us - starting with the 3 promoted sides. This trend has continued to date with our recent fixtures against mid - low table teams each with limited attacking ambitions.

The manager has used this period to rebuild and develop a style of play that is one of containment during the 1st half and positivity during the 2nd half.

Result = 13 played, 12 scored and just TWO conceded. It seems to be working.
UTC

It worries me, all this talk of a sound defence. I hope we don't get our comeuppance soon.

As Quickenthetempo mentioned, luck has been involved: the disallowed goals vs Blackburn and PNE, the penalty incidents - eg Brownhill's handball against Swansea, Worral's 'tackle' at Leeds, woodwork.

Maxime Esteve.

He’s genuinely unreal.

To be fair, Hipper, every team has those kind of "Oooh, that could have gone either way" moments.

We have a great defence, but the opposition have missed some absolute sitters which has helped our stats.

Another factor is the opposition. I’ve only seen the home games plus Sunderland, all the teams bar the latter have tried to park the bus, waste time and not look really interested in scoring.

Barring Roberts at Sunderland I don’t think I have seen a decent winger or a forward who was able pose any real threat.

That said the boys at the back have been brilliant and made very few mistakes. Trafford has done well, like Seaman at Arsenal he stands about for long periods then he has to make a crucial save. His concentration levels have been really good.

We're well organised now, and don't make many mistakes, but more to the point we are not getting punished for the ones we do make

Hipper wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:43 pm

It worries me, all this talk of a sound defence. I hope we don't get our comeuppance soon.

As Quickenthetempo mentioned, luck has been involved: the disallowed goals vs Blackburn and PNE, the penalty incidents - eg Brownhill's handball against Swansea, Worral's 'tackle' at Leeds, woodwork.

How does the woodwork come under luck?

Good back four and keeper offered additional
protection by cautious tactics.

The level of finishing in the division is probably the lowest it's been for years.

See how we get on against Boro on Friday, they're one of the few sides that can score freely.

It's no secret that we're not in the Premier League.

Parker

Trafford is probably the best in the league in his position.
Roberts is probably the best in the league in his position.
Egan-Riley is looking like one of the best in the league in his position.
Esteve IS the best in the league in his position.
Pires has been generally solid.
And Scott Parker obviously knows how to set up a defence.

Just goes to show why stats on WhoScored etc are incapable of giving a true perspective. They tell ‘some’ of the story but not ‘most’ of it.

I thus use the stats very loosely, and carefully (and am someone who advises on stats for a living).

I suspect the true reason is quality of personnel at CB and goalie, and cautious tactics. Whether that is the right balance of attack and defence is another question, I suspect not quite.

I can’t tell you cause it’s a secret

MDWat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:44 pm

Maxime Esteve.

He’s genuinely unreal.

Unbelievable player at this level.

We have been truly blessed at CB over the last 4 seasons in the championship, we've always had arguably the best defence

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 04, 2024 8:26 pm

Just goes to show why stats on WhoScored etc are incapable of giving a true perspective. They tell ‘some’ of the story but not ‘most’ of it.

I thus use the stats very loosely, and carefully (and am someone who advises on stats for a living).

I suspect the true reason is quality of personnel at CB and goalie, and cautious tactics. Whether that is the right balance of attack and defence is another question, I suspect not quite.

If it comes down to the quality of the players then I'm a bit confused. Last season there were plenty on here who told us Muric was better than Trafford and the stats tend to back that up. Roberts is the same player. I'm sure most would happily exchange Pires or Humphreys for Maatsen. So I presume that means that Ekdal, Beyer, Harwood Bellis and Al Dakil are all significantly worse than Egan Riley and Esteve.

To me it looks like we've taken the best of the Dyche framework which Mike Jackson presumably still knows how to coach but we've adapted it to add playing out from the back. With a higher possession percentage we defend less which means that the defenders' stats are worse because they have fewer defensive situations to deal with but the goals against column shows a different story.

The fact the we conceded the same number of goals under Dyche and Kompany backs up the idea that the less they have the ball the less the opposition score, our defence under VK was nowhere near as well organised and seemed to get really stretched at times with too many bodies committed in attack.

Parker and Dyche both insist that it's not just about the back five, the forwards are the front line of defence.

Whatever the reason long may it continue.

Well organised
Good players
Nice shape
Support from the midfield

The flip side is that I think the same factors behind the success of our defence are behind us not scoring too many goals.

Most sides’ best chances against us come if we get caught fannying around with it at the back.

It’s a massive achievement tho and full credit to Parker, the management and the players.

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 04, 2024 9:29 pm

Unbelievable player at this level.

We have been truly blessed at CB over the last 4 seasons in the championship, we've always had arguably the best defence

Yep, far too good to be playing in the Championship and we should love him for getting his head down and doing a season for us.

Those who’ve been on here a while will know how big a fan I was/am of Tarkowski but Esteve is the best centre back we’ve had in my lifetime.

I don't want to be all doom and gloom but the quality of the opposition players has also helped.

I dont think even the most Claret tinted specs supporter can argue, that we haven't given a few decent chances in most games. The difference is at this level teams maybe take 1 in 4, in the Premier League you're 4-0 down..

Tactics are playing a huge role. We have 2 very good centre backs. Left back and right back are also decent although left back area needs to improve. The thing that stands out for me is the defensive work of the wingers. Unlike under VK where attack was the best form of defence, the wingers this season sit far deeper on the pitch offering more of a stable unit.

The centre halves barely leave the 18 yard box area when defending deep (a little like under dyche) the full backs tuck in too. Wingers always tracking back. Add to that Cullen , Brownhill or Laurent playing deeper, and the attacking midfielder working really hard to win the ball back, we are extremely hard to break down.

Winning second balls is one of our main strengths. Every player knows exactly where they need to be as a unit. It’s been the right way to go about it working on the foundations firstly. It’s not been pretty at times but I’d rather us sort that out first before finding ways to attack a bit more.

With the injured players coming back and the talent they have. I think we’ll peak around February/March and absolutely storm the league ..

My mind has changed so much the last 4 weeks about our identity. I thought we looked flat but it was just parker sorting out the defence first.

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:38 am

My mind has changed so much the last 4 weeks about our identity. I thought we looked flat but it was just parker sorting out the defence first.

I agree. Dyche did the same, except he did it during the second half of the 2012/13 season when many were calling him 'Yawn Dyche'. Then we saw the fruits of that the following season.

There is obviously a “togetherness” that has been nurtured by SP after the abomination of last year.

Defenders being asked to defend is a great idea.

The opposition (well, a few of them) allowing us to have the ball for long periods.

Traffs confidence and new found robustness in the 6 yd box.

And a fantastic centre half in Maxime Esteve, and the very quick development of CJ next to him.

We are organised and players have a designated role that is obviously clearly defined. They play their role, everyone else played theirs = great team.

This is a team ethic NOT a back 4 + keeper thing. All the side are working their socks off to get goal side and get their tackles in.
As Burnley FC said higher up all our back 5 are top quality; at this level, but the work done in front of them gives them such an easy time of it.
Well done SP for getting them to buy into his plan and then seeing it through.