Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

I got four of those one lunch time at school many years ago...

I still had to do double PE in the afternoon!

They don't know they're born.

Those ill last week are back
Esteve and Sarmiento sound they'll likely be ok
Foster been training for about 10 days

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:42 pm

Those ill last week are back
Esteve and Sarmiento sound they'll likely be ok
Foster been training for about 10 days

Sarmiento won’t be able to play Saturday as, whether intended at the time or not, went off as a concussion substitute in Sundays game, and guidance says unable to play for 7 days

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:47 pm

Sarmiento won’t be able to play Saturday as, whether intended at the time or not, went off as a concussion substitute in Sundays game, and guidance says unable to play for 7 days

That was my understanding but that's not what was relayed in the presser

It looked like at one point they were looking at a neck brace, which suggests concern regarding a fall, spine.

I bet that's how they've not been expected to follow the concussion protocol.

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:14 pm

It looked like at one point they were looking at a neck brace, which suggests concern regarding a fall, spine.

I bet that's how they've not been expected to follow the concussion protocol.

But we made substitutions over 4 windows, when you are only permitted 3, unless one is due to a concussion

If we hadn’t made the last minute one of Worrall for Luca there wouldn’t be an issue.

If Sarmiento features on Saturday, we will have questions to answer

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

That's got to be some deadleg.

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg

Aye, ok.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:25 pm

But we made substitutions over 4 windows, when you are only permitted 3, unless one is due to a concussion

If we hadn’t made the last minute one of Worrall for Luca there wouldn’t be an issue.

If Sarmiento features on Saturday, we will have questions to answer

Spot on - I was amazed when Worrall came on and the only explanation was that we'd had a concussion sub earlier in the game.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:25 pm

But we made substitutions over 4 windows, when you are only permitted 3, unless one is due to a concussion

If we hadn’t made the last minute one of Worrall for Luca there wouldn’t be an issue.

If Sarmiento features on Saturday, we will have questions to answer

Surely the club must be aware of the situation.

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

Or maybe he’s just a dead leg.

Scott Parker at his pc this morning said Sarmiento is on grass and a decision on his fitness will be made Friday ( same with Estève)
Surely Sarmiento cannot play due to concussion protocol or his substitution was not for concussion and therefore we had an illegal substitution
Maybe I have misunderstood the rules but surely Scott will know if Sarmiento is available for selection subject to fitness

Spijed wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:48 pm

Surely the club must be aware of the situation.

Well if they are they need to tell Scott because, going off what he’s said it doesn’t appear he is

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:25 pm

But we made substitutions over 4 windows, when you are only permitted 3, unless one is due to a concussion

If we hadn’t made the last minute one of Worrall for Luca there wouldn’t be an issue.

If Sarmiento features on Saturday, we will have questions to answer

Does the club have to confirm that it was concussion for the Return to play protocols to be followed?

I haven't got a clue how it works.

In the post match , I am sure Parker said it was suspected concussion.

If we have stated after the fact, through the medical team and doctors, that it was not concussion, does the 7 day return still have to be followed?

Surely the 7 day waiting period is only followed if the concussion is confirmed?

dead leg

The sub was a concussion sub.

Parker said it was suspected after the game.

If we have stated it wasn't concussion after spending time with the doctor and medical team, does the 7 days still have to be followed?

I haven't got a clue.

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:19 pm

Surely the 7 day waiting period is only followed if the concussion is confirmed?

Doesn’t matter if proved he wasn’t, protocol is still can’t play for 7 days.
Stops teams claiming a concussion when not to gain an extra sub if they know he’s unable to play next games

Cue end of season dilemma- we beat Norwich by 2 points to gain automatic promotion (highly unlikely they will be there) and we’ve made an illegal sub to gain the win at Carrow road ….

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:27 pm

Cue end of season dilemma- we beat Norwich by 2 points to gain automatic promotion (highly unlikely they will be there) and we’ve made an illegal sub to gain the win at Carrow road ….

It would only be illegal if he’s named in the squad on Saturday

If we've made an illegal substitution then I imagine we'd have the 3 points taken off us, plus whatever penalty the laws mandate.
The ref and his assistants will also be in bother.
If we then play Sarmiento in a game afterwards and we shouldn't have, we'd forfeit any points earned in that game too, plus whatever penalty the laws mandate for that.

Would it be a fine, as opposed to points?

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:25 pm

Doesn’t matter if proved he wasn’t, protocol is still can’t play for 7 days.
Stops teams claiming a concussion when not to gain an extra sub if they know he’s unable to play next games

Do you know where it states this ( not questioning you, just would like to know) as I can't see anything in the FA booklet.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:33 pm

It would only be illegal if he’s named in the squad on Saturday

It would be a poor do if we're all aware of this, but the club isn't!

hoosier-daddy wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:34 pm

Would it be a fine, as opposed to points?

Never, as it would just encourage clubs to cheat the rule by contantly bringing on more subs.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:53 pm

Never, as it would just encourage clubs to cheat the rule by contantly bringing on more subs.

What if the ref forced the substitution but after the game it was said not to be concussion?

The PL concussion rules state that if you use an extra substitution opportunity for a concussion sub it then allows the opposition an extra substitution opportunity to even things up (i.e. 4).

This might also be the EFL rule and, possibly, why Sarmiento will be allowed to play if the advantage is taken away from the subbing team on the day - negating the whole 7-day speculation.

All still guesswork though!

You would like to think that the club/manager and all behind the scenes will know as to weather Sarmiento is both fit enough and not breaching any rules to be allowed to play Saturday.

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:41 pm

Do you know where it states this ( not questioning you, just would like to know) as I can't see anything in the FA booklet.

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/globa ... lines.ashx

I've briefly read the advice, and it appears the FA say you can return to playing on day 6

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:55 pm

What if the ref forced the substitution but after the game it was said not to be concussion?

Match officials can have no input into the decision

The referee and other match officials, especially the fourth official:
• are not part of a team’s decision-making process as to whether a player should be substituted or not, nor whether a player should be replaced by a ‘normal substitute’ or a ‘concussion substitute’;
• must not decide whether an actual or suspected injury qualifies for a ‘concussion substitute’ to be used;
• should give appropriate support where a player has an actual or suspected injury, including by informing the team captain, coach and/or medical staff if they suspect that a player needs to be assessed and/or treated;
• should support a decision by the team captain, coach and/or medical staff that an injured player cannot continue playing, which may require the referee to delay the restart until after the player has left the field of play; and
• must inform the appropriate authorities if there are concerns that a ‘concussion substitution’ has been made inappropriately.

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:06 pm

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/globa ... lines.ashx

IMG_6880.jpeg

Yes I have seen that already. Isn't that stating about a player who has suffered concussion?

I was thinking more , does it state anywhere in the hand book that if it is confirmed later that the player did not have concussion when subbed, they still have to follow the 7 days?

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:14 pm

Yes I have seen that already. Isn't that stating about a player who has suffered concussion?

I was thinking more , does it state anywhere in the hand book that if it is confirmed later that the player did not have concussion when subbed, they still have to follow the 7 days?

Stage 6 is day 7 at exceptional criteria met, which is a normal SCAT6 recording within 48hrs (ie no concussion)

The 7 day rule seems particularly unfair for teams that have been forced to move their previous fixture to the Sunday.

Row x wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:10 pm

I've briefly read the advice, and it appears the FA say you can return to playing on day 6

It’s stage 6 which is day 7, but only if exception criteria met which is a normal SCAT6 reading within 48hrs

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:24 pm

It’s stage 6 which is day 7, but only if exception criteria met which is a normal SCAT6 reading within 48hrs

So it doesn't say - if it's confirmed that the player did not have concussion at the time of the substitution, they still have to follow the 7 day return.

I've not watched the presser but does SP say that Sarmiento is in contention to play or just updating on his fitness?

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:43 pm

I've not watched the presser but does SP say that Sarmiento is in contention to play or just updating on his fitness?

https://x.com/BurnleyOfficial/status/18 ... 8395396105

"SP on Estève and Sarmiento"

"Both are moving in the right direction. We will keep monitoring them and make the call on their inclusion tomorrow.”

Raconteur wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 5:35 pm

So it doesn't say - if it's confirmed that the player did not have concussion at the time of the substitution, they still have to follow the 7 day return.

If a concussion sub is made (which this has to be classed as, as we made 4 sets of subs) the protocol needs to be started regardless.

If it’s confirmed by having a normal SCAT6 result in the following 48hrs that it wasn’t a concussion, the GRTP still needs to be followed as it was a suspected concussion at the time.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:08 pm

Scott Parker at his pc this morning said Sarmiento is on grass and a decision on his fitness will be made Friday ( same with Estève)
Surely Sarmiento cannot play due to concussion protocol or his substitution was not for concussion and therefore we had an illegal substitution
Maybe I have misunderstood the rules but surely Scott will know if Sarmiento is available for selection subject to fitness

I’m sure I read somewhere that Tresor is on grass too.

DCWat wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:13 pm

I’m sure I read somewhere that Tresor is on grass too.

Probably at home mowing his lawn

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

Rumoured that he got the Burnley crest tattooed on his thigh given his love for the club

kaptin1 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 2:37 pm

Tresor has a dead leg (or maybe he's just dead)?

Presumably through disuse.

willsclarets wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 4:19 pm

dead leg

That should take him nicely into the transfer window when he can get his move and miraculously recover

It's incredible how many players we have heading in the right direction but never reach the destination

Was with a sports Doctor ( last night)who is on a panel for doing the scat6 reviews he covers the Manchester clubs, he said that if a player has suspected concussion he has to leave the field if the players team wish to they can use the concussion sub rule that means the opposition can use an extra player if the want.
As regards to time before he can play, this is a complicated process, but first is has the player got or had concussion, if not he can begin training and if no problems over the next day or so , dependant on his normal fitness he can return to full training and play. He said that as it is a precaution it would be unfair on the team if he could not play for a prolonged period. However if he has concussion it can be anything between 7 days and several months.

He said that the FA monitor this and if a team is doing extra subs on a regular basis then they would investigate, but could not quantify what is a regular basis. As they also look at what was happening in the game when they do the change. And if they had used all the allowed subs and then looked to use the protocol to freshen up then they may ask questions