Before we appointed Parker, and early in his tenure some fans were still calling for RVP and to a lesser extent Lampard as they were " exciting attack minded managers "
It's early days for both of them but it's really not going well for either of them.
File under great player, crap manager ?

I'm assuming the P is misplaced & it should be a N. Assuming that I hope leicester get relegated as I personally like steve cooper & can't see that particular replacement doing any better. He got hounded out & wasn't doing too bad in the grand scheme of things. It's difficult to draw hypothetical futuristic scenarios with RVN as the PL is a different beast but lampard seems to be beleaguered wherever he's ended up.

Far too early to judge either RVN or Lampard.

RVN, cheers Jacob.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:45 pm

RVN, cheers Jacob.

I honestly wasn't sure myself with all the foreign managers that seem to be about.

Robin van Persie in as a late leftfield candidate

Agree with the OP. Lampard especially. Scott P is working out nicely so far

beddie wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:21 pm

Far too early to judge either RVN or Lampard.

Or Scott Parker.

It would've been entertaining, but if we'd got promoted, we'd be in exactly the same position as under VK. Wide open and thrashed every other week.

At least Parker can set up a defence, and is showing signs of the "patterns of play" much discussed this season.

Who cares

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:15 pm

Who cares

Burnley fans

Don't forget, we were a crap last season and there are loads of people saying there is no massive gap between the leagues and there is nothing to worry about. The bottom 3 will very likely be the promoted teams again. Footy is in trouble

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:33 pm

Don't forget, we were a crap last season and there are loads of people saying there is no massive gap between the leagues and there is nothing to worry about. The bottom 3 will very likely be the promoted teams again. Footy is in trouble

I agree Vegas. Money is quickly ruining the Football pyramid in this country in my opinion. It’s madness to see clubs in league 1/2 barely able to stay afloat all whilst allowing the established premier league clubs to continue swimming in money!

How long will it be before promoted clubs from the championship are completely unable to avoid relegation the following season? You could argue we are just about there already!

At the other end of the league, I would also hate to see football become much like F1 where only 1 team can realistically win each season, but with the likes of City’s success in recent years would again suggest it’s too late. It cannot be healthy when only 2-3 teams may be able to win the league each season, purely because they have more resources than everyone else!

Lampard isn't what Coventry need, he's just got a good agent who gets him jobs

As for Leicester, they need a bit of work and RVN needs the time to sort it
They're gonna get a few more hidings yet

blatherwickstattoos wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 8:15 pm

Who cares

Odd comment

Ampth7 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:51 pm

At the other end of the league, I would also hate to see football become much like F1 where only 1 team can realistically win each season, but with the likes of City’s success in recent years would again suggest it’s too late. It cannot be healthy when only 2-3 teams may be able to win the league each season, purely because they have more resources than everyone else!

Has there been a time since the PL started where more than a couple of teams were in contention though each season?

Can't think of any season since the 90's and even before that which have been much different to what we see now. Liverpool used to dominate pretty much in the 70's and 80's then it was Man U. after that.

Ampth7 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:51 pm

I agree Vegas. Money is quickly ruining the Football pyramid in this country in my opinion. It’s madness to see clubs in league 1/2 barely able to stay afloat all whilst allowing the established premier league clubs to continue swimming in money!

How long will it be before promoted clubs from the championship are completely unable to avoid relegation the following season? You could argue we are just about there already!

At the other end of the league, I would also hate to see football become much like F1 where only 1 team can realistically win each season, but with the likes of City’s success in recent years would again suggest it’s too late. It cannot be healthy when only 2-3 teams may be able to win the league each season, purely because they have more resources than everyone else!

Saints and Ipswich both spent in or around 100 million, it's just run away from itself.

They were both just dumb appointments
RVN - no experience, replacing a good experienced manager. They’ll change again before they go down
Lampard - has more nous but it’s all about his back room staff. They’ll be comfortable in mid-table but not before Frank has wasted their money


If you need results fast you need experienced motivational managers - it’s not rocket science

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 10:18 pm

Has there been a time since the PL started where more than a couple of teams were in contention though each season?

Can't think of any season since the 90's and even before that which have been much different to what we see now. Liverpool used to dominate pretty much in the 70's and 80's then it was Man U. after that.

Yes, fair point, although if you look at the past league winners from the 60’s-80’s, whilst Liverpool were dominant in the late 70’s and 80’s, you still get a smattering of others winning it.

Teams like Villa, Derby, Forest, Everton, Ipswich and Leeds all won the league at various points in this era as well as the usual suspects like Liverpool and Arsenal. I suspect this problem is also to do with the removal of the wage cap and the Bosman ruling, which basically opened the floodgates for the super rich clubs to monopolise the league. Today we are seeing the same happening with the European Super League debacle which has thankfully been kicked to touch……for now!

The point being that since the introduction of the Premier League and all the money that comes with it, we are quickly getting to the point whereby quite literally only a very small handful of clubs can win the league. Put it this way, how many years will it be before we have another Leicester City story which by the way was 8 years ago now! The last example before them was B#*#*#*s in 94, but even they were heavily reliant on Walker and his millions!

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:04 pm

...File under great player, crap manager ?

There have been a lot of those over the years; there have been exceptions, but it does seem to be the journeyman players who go on to be the better managers. My theory that the truly gifted players struggle to coach the lesser mortals as they never really knew how they did it, they just could.

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:47 pm

There have been a lot of those over the years; there have been exceptions, but it does seem to be the journeyman players who go on to be the better managers. My theory that the truly gifted players struggle to coach the lesser mortals as they never really knew how they did it, they just could.

I’ve followed the ‘great player/poor manager’ phenomenon for a good number of years as it pertains to football, NHL, MLB and to a far lesser extent NFL. In all the aforementioned sports it’s unusual for a top line player to succeed as a manager/coach or whatever name one chooses. Wayne Gretzky, the greatest Ice Hockey player of all time failed miserably as a coach. Baseball catchers (wicketkeeper in cricket terms) are far more likely to become good managers/coaches probably because they study the game from their vantage point, they ‘call’ the game, not unlike a quarterback in NFL. I agree with your reasoning that the great players find it frustrating to teach others what came naturally to them.

What's Robin van Persie up to these days?

Ampth7 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:51 pm

At the other end of the league, I would also hate to see football become much like F1 where only 1 team can realistically win each season, but with the likes of City’s success in recent years would again suggest it’s too late. It cannot be healthy when only 2-3 teams may be able to win the league each season, purely because they have more resources than everyone else!

How do you feel as a Burnley fan that ourselves, Sheffield and Leeds all have an enormous advantage over the rest of the teams in the Championship?
Luton should also be included in that list but they have somewhat imploded this year.
There is a strong possibility that 2 of the relegated teams from last season will be promoted back to the PL. You can also add Leeds as they are benefiting from the previous season's parachute payment. If all those 3 sides go up it makes a mockery of The Championship.

Anonymous Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:16 pm

How do you feel as a Burnley fan that ourselves, Sheffield and Leeds all have an enormous advantage over the rest of the teams in the Championship?
Luton should also be included in that list but they have somewhat imploded this year.
There is a strong possibility that 2 of the relegated teams from last season will be promoted back to the PL. You can also add Leeds as they are benefiting from the previous season's parachute payment. If all those 3 sides go up it makes a mockery of The Championship.

I genuinely feel that we are a bi-product of the very same problem, just at a lower level than the top 20. As much as I don’t want to see the premier league monopolised by oil rich, country owned football clubs, I also don’t think it’s healthy that the same clubs who get relegated each year are highly likely to bounce back up the following season.

Unfortunately, the gravy train that is the Premier League has created this situation and the gap between the top 20-23 clubs and everyone else appears to be widening at an alarming rate. We are already seeing many clubs from league 1 struggling to compete in the Championship, and I personally don’t think it’s healthy for the game when the gaps are purely down to money/resources.

Regarding our current situation, isn’t it great that we are now seen as a top 3 Championship team! However, the reality is if we do go back up, the odds are we will get battered again next season and if we don’t go back up in the next 2-3 seasons, the money dries up……….

All I can say is that I was delighted when we got Parker.

A few rumours about that RVN is considering resigning over not being backed in the January window, as he was allegedly promised.

Poulton-le-Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:21 pm

A few rumours about that RVN is considering resigning over not being backed in the January window, as he was allegedly promised.

Sounds like it’s a get out (excuse) to me for being crap at his job.

beddie wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:29 pm

Sounds like it’s a get out (excuse) to me for being crap at his job.

I agree and I doubt he actually would resign anyway as he won't get paid out.

Surrounded by Foxes fans here in Leics, and the talk is that Ruud could quit soon. He is disillusioned about the lack of incomings (to date just a £3m RB from overseas). He also gave Buonnanote a real going over in front of the team after their defeat to Palace, and Brighton unhappy about his game time. Leicester cant afford to sack him, but just taken a £20m loan from their bank in Australia. I dont see him staying, and maybe a mutual agreement is reached meaning relegation wont be on his CV. The stage is set for Dyche to earn a short term contract

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 25, 2024 2:53 am

All I can say is that I was delighted when we got Parker.

Can't beat, tried and tested!

Can't think of any world class player that's been a big success as manager.

Carlo Ancelotti & Pep Guardiola were very good players, but not the level of RVN.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:20 pm

Can't think of any world class player that's been a big success as manager.

Carlo Ancelotti & Pep Guardiola were very good players, but not the level of RVN.

Zidane

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:20 pm

Can't think of any world class player that's been a big success as manager.

Carlo Ancelotti & Pep Guardiola were very good players, but not the level of RVN.

Didier Deschamps

Edit - and Cruyff

Leisure wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:41 pm

Can't beat, tried and tested!

Don’t mind admitting that I would’ve liked RVN and was a bit underwhelmed with Parker, but in hindsight completely agree.

It’s working out wonderfully and I’ve been massively impressed with Parker. Pleased to say I was very wrong and the club were right.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:20 pm

Can't think of any world class player that's been a big success as manager.

Carlo Ancelotti & Pep Guardiola were very good players, but not the level of RVN.

Kompany

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:50 pm

Don’t mind admitting that I would’ve liked RVN and was a bit underwhelmed with Parker, but in hindsight completely agree.

It’s working out wonderfully and I’ve been massively impressed with Parker. Pleased to say I was very wrong and the club were right.

This was me all over.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:20 pm

Can't think of any world class player that's been a big success as manager.

Carlo Ancelotti & Pep Guardiola were very good players, but not the level of RVN.

Brian Clough? Kenny Dalgleish?

(fun game, this)

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:55 pm

Brian Clough? Kenny Dalgleish?

(fun game, this)

Neither were truly World class players though.

aggi wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:39 pm

Kompany

To me world class means you'd get in any team in the world. Don't think Kompany was in that bracket.

And the jury is still out on him as a manager!

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:50 pm

Don’t mind admitting that I would’ve liked RVN and was a bit underwhelmed with Parker, but in hindsight completely agree.

It’s working out wonderfully and I’ve been massively impressed with Parker. Pleased to say I was very wrong and the club were right.

Would Parker have been my choice? Probably not, but I wanted a manager with some experience to clear up the mess left by Kompany and a manager who the chairman wasn't in awe of and in love with.

That chappie Beckenbauer didn’t have a bad record as player and manager: if you don’t know him, you can always google him.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:58 pm

Neither were truly World class players though.

Clough was struck down early by injury, but had a ridiculous scoring record (just looked it up, and it’s even better than I thought - 251 in 274!]

I realise “world class” is entirely subjective, but Dalgleish was arguably the best player at Liverpool when they were winning everything going - that’s world class in my book.

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:15 pm

Clough was struck down early by injury, but had a ridiculous scoring record (just looked it up, and it’s even better than I thought - 251 in 274!]

I realise “world class” is entirely subjective, but Dalgleish was arguably the best player at Liverpool when they were winning everything going - that’s world class in my book.

Daglish was world class.
Keegan was world class

Dechamps won a few things as player and manager.

It’s clearly not a prerequisite to have been a very good player to be a very good manager - but plenty have gone on to be.
Spurs fans often have Glen Hoddle as their best ever player and he didn’t do too bad as a manager - Bobby Robson a very good player too. Plenty examples around the world.

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 6:29 pm

Zidane

Great shout, what a player. Also, ‘world class’ is a very small pool of players. It’s going to be an even smaller select few who also succeed in management.

I doubt it means anything either way, no more or less likely than any other ex-pro. Their natural ability won’t give them any extra insight into the game, but it won’t hold them back either.

Big Vinny K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:21 pm

Daglish was world class.
Keegan was world class

Dechamps won a few things as player and manager.

It’s clearly not a prerequisite to have been a very good player to be a very good manager - but plenty have gone on to be.
Spurs fans often have Glen Hoddle as their best ever player and he didn’t do too bad as a manager - Bobby Robson a very good player too. Plenty examples around the world.

I considered Keegan and Hoddle, but they don’t reach the threshold of “big success as a manager” for me, Clive.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:06 pm

Would Parker have been my choice? Probably not, but I wanted a manager with some experience to clear up the mess left by Kompany and a manager who the chairman wasn't in awe of and in love with.

Don’t think anyone could compare to Kompany, whoever he chose. It’ll take him a few years to get over the break up, I suspect!

Big Vinny K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:21 pm

Daglish was world class.

Not as a manager. He took over the best team in Europe at the time and started it's decline.
Took over a very well forged team up the road, was given a bank load of cash, and won the league, but the credit belonged with Don mackay, for starting the process and he got none, being dumped for a big name as was dyche at Watford.
Then, unlike dyche, he was a complete disaster at his next appointment at Newcastle. Not as bad as that fraud of a manager ardiles, but if ever there was evidence of a manager being unable to evaluate players, that was it.

timshorts wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2025 8:06 am

Not as a manager. He took over the best team in Europe at the time and started it's decline.
Took over a very well forged team up the road, was given a bank load of cash, and won the league, but the credit belonged with Don mackay, for starting the process and he got none, being dumped for a big name as was dyche at Watford.
Then, unlike dyche, he was a complete disaster at his next appointment at Newcastle. Not as bad as that fraud of a manager ardiles, but if ever there was evidence of a manager being unable to evaluate players, that was it.

Let's be fair.

Started its decline? Didn't he rejuvenate them with a side which would have been outstanding in Europe if not for the ban? That Beardsley, Barnes team hammered their way through the league. They were fantastic to watch. Eventually, the likes of Hansen and Lawrenson were very difficult to replace (possibly two of the best defensive central players in the world in their prime).

Also, Mackay started their improvement but all the big signings came under KD. Also, the ability to purchase their competitors' best players to get them promoted helped, too.

There is an argument that he turned Liverpool's fortunes around in his second stint. Changed their direction to youth and freshened a lot of behind the scenes processes.

Ps. Getting back to topic: I wasn't excited by the Parker appointment but accepted there wasn't anyone who really appealed. In hindsight, I think he has done a very good job and deserves a lot of credit.

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:30 pm

I considered Keegan and Hoddle, but they don’t reach the threshold of “big success as a manager” for me, Clive.

All subjective I guess.
Getting the job as English manager you must have had a decent amount of success (usually !!)
During their era as managers it was very difficult to actually win anything when United and Arsenal dominate so much but you can still be a big success as a manager in the context of the club you are at. Bringing Fulham though the leagues or getting Newcastle competing for the league is a big success for Keegan in the eyes of many.

No doubting they were both great players though. Glen Hoddle was a poor man’s Paul Comstive !!!