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1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:01 pm
by No Ney Never
People who were early to take advantage of the government domestic rooftop solar tariff scheme, still benefiting.
People who were early to take advantage of the government EV contribution and free charger installation scheme, still benefiting.
Should we be taking advantage of the current government drive towards heat pumps?
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:05 pm
by GetIntoEm
Heat pumps are naff in my opinion, but you are right, once they become more common there will be no incentive
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:29 pm
by bobinho
The govt won’t be happy to lose all the revenue they currently have coming in from all the different types of fossil fuels that are used every day by almost every person.
As soon as we are all driving electric cars, the cost of electricity will go thru the roof. Won’t be long before those with solar panels will have to pay the govt to take the excess electricity away.
Remember when diesel was massively cheaper than petrol? They encouraged the swap over… it’s now more expensive and has been for some time. Is that because it’s harder to refine, harder to transport? Of course not. It’s because we use more of it than petrol.
We have always lost. We will always lose. True story.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:30 pm
by NottsClaret
We still get the benefit of the solar panels, fantastic things. We had a heat pump too, but even with incentives it was more expensive than gas. And our house was freezing. So we went back to gas. Sorry Greta, but heat pumps aren’t the answer.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:55 pm
by mdd2
Heat pumps do not heat the water much higher than 50degrees centigrade which is why you need bigger radiators
Turn the thermostat down on your boiler to 50c and see how warm or cold your house is at this time of year and then decide if a heat pump with no extra plumbing like extra or bigger radiators and extra insulation will suffice
I have tried it and heat pump would need an additional electric heat source to get the tank temperature up to 60-65
to keep my house warm in winter
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 9:12 pm
by clarethomer
I have a heat pump and genuinely I cannot tell you whether its been financially worth it because of the changing prices and how I use my heating differently.
I did it to remove gas from my house fully more than the financial element of it and I wanted a warm house all day and I bought into the low constant heat to do that.
When I had our gas boiler - we would heat single rooms to save money, we would turn on for a few hours in the morning and then when the kids came in after school. Now its a constant heat all day that works for us.
I have had mine now for a year and overall I have been really pleased with it.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 10:09 pm
by aclaretinstevenage
mdd2 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:55 pm
Heat pumps do not heat the water much higher than 50degrees centigrade which is why you need bigger radiators
Turn the thermostat down on your boiler to 50c and see how warm or cold your house is at this time of year and then decide if a heat pump with no extra plumbing like extra or bigger radiators and extra insulation will suffice
I have tried it and heat pump would need an additional electric heat source to get the tank temperature up to 60-65
to keep my house warm in winter
This is much understanding of the situation too. In new builds gas boilers won't be allowed now so installing heat pump systems is just the way it is, but retrofitting a heat pump system in place of an existing system will present big problems.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 10:24 pm
by Clovius Boofus
Retrofitting the UK's ageing housing stock isn't going to happen. The consumer can't afford it and neither can the government. Also, much of our housing isn't suitable for retrofitting or heat pumps. We should continue with gas exploration until the nuclear power stations are built. It's bonkers importing gas from halfway around the world when we have it underneath our feet and seas.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:12 pm
by ChrisG
bobinho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:29 pm
The govt won’t be happy to lose all the revenue they currently have coming in from all the different types of fossil fuels that are used every day by almost every person.
As soon as we are all driving electric cars, the cost of electricity will go thru the roof. Won’t be long before those with solar panels will have to pay the govt to take the excess electricity away.
Remember when diesel was massively cheaper than petrol? They encouraged the swap over… it’s now more expensive and has been for some time. Is that because it’s harder to refine, harder to transport? Of course not. It’s because we use more of it than petrol.
We have always lost. We will always lose. True story.
Conversely, here in Germany, diesel is usually a good 7 or 8 cents a litre cheaper.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:29 am
by Acting Claret
There was a programme on c5 last evening about heat pumps. I think it was funded by the manufacturers as there were no real downsides. Some guy spent £12000 on his install, after the £7500 grant and he’s saving 50p a day!
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:36 am
by ClaretOfMancunia
Acting Claret wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:29 am
There was a programme on c5 last evening about heat pumps. I think it was funded by the manufacturers as there were no real downsides. Some guy spent £12000 on his install, after the £7500 grant and he’s saving 50p a day!
Doing some fag packet maths on that... It's going to take him about 25 years to break even, assuming gas prices stay as they are now
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:17 pm
by dsr
ClaretOfMancunia wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 11:36 am
Doing some fag packet maths on that... It's going to take him about 25 years to break even, assuming gas prices stay as they are now
My fag packet says 70 years!
My worry is that when they remove gas and coal-burning and wood-burning sources of power in all homes, as is the plan, we will all be reliant on electricity and nothing else; and electricity will be reliant on the wind blowing, the sun shining, or imports. When the inevitable power cuts happen, and (say) Manchester has no way of heating their homes, will the government have plans in place for rehousing people at short notice?
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:52 pm
by ClaretOfMancunia
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 12:17 pm
My fag packet says 70 years!
My worry is that when they remove gas and coal-burning and wood-burning sources of power in all homes, as is the plan, we will all be reliant on electricity and nothing else; and electricity will be reliant on the wind blowing, the sun shining, or imports. When the inevitable power cuts happen, and (say) Manchester has no way of heating their homes, will the government have plans in place for rehousing people at short notice?
I'd excluded the grant he got from the initial outlay.
I don't see how they can remove GCH from homes on that scale really. Possibly feasible for new builds, but even now they're still installing combi boilers in existing properties (not sure about new builds). I have an end terrace with a gas combi and it works brilliantly. I don't even think I'd have space to install one of those heat pumps and to heat the place with electric would be completely unaffordable.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:08 pm
by Clovius Boofus
Four and a half years time, a great deal of the 'pie in the sky' Net Zero will be binned. In fact, it will be skimmed down much earlier because it's already started with the expansion plans for Heathrow. It's called - when ideology meets stark economic reality.
Re: 1st mover advantage
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 4:06 pm
by dsr
ClaretOfMancunia wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:52 pm
I'd excluded the grant he got from the initial outlay.
I don't see how they can remove GCH from homes on that scale really. Possibly feasible for new builds, but even now they're still installing combi boilers in existing properties (not sure about new builds). I have an end terrace with a gas combi and it works brilliantly. I don't even think I'd have space to install one of those heat pumps and to heat the place with electric would be completely unaffordable.
You might be right. I read it as £19,500 total less £7,500 grant leaving £12k, but it could be either.