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Of course he was going to play and he should do so. He hasn't been found guilty or charged with anything up to now so why would he not play.Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 12:42 pmPrecisely that why I thought it could be sorted sooner .Certainly I didn't expect Osmajic to play for PNE till it was all sorted.
I'm thinking the same.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:13 pmUnless anyone else heard and confirmed what was said or theres another camera angle that captures his gob better, it’s unlikely there will be much happens with this, unfortunately.
It’s very clear he says “f*** you” a couple of times but that’s about it. From the tv replays it doesn’t look very conclusive but Hannibal’s reaction said it all.
Football "law" is different though. Ex-Cardiff defender Ben Turner was accused of racism and he speaks about the case in detail on his Undr the Cosh episode and despite the "victim's" evidence being thrown out due to discrepancies, Turner was still found guilty because in football with the FA it is based on the probability of it happening and not having concrete evidence if it did or didn't.quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:13 pmUnless anyone else heard and confirmed what was said or theres another camera angle that captures his gob better, it’s unlikely there will be much happens with this, unfortunately.
It’s very clear he says “f*** you” a couple of times but that’s about it. From the tv replays it doesn’t look very conclusive but Hannibal’s reaction said it all.
That’s a very good point as that’s almost all you can see spoken , BUT Hannibal is indeed outraged ,and though he’s an absolute piece of work in the dark arts , I really don’t believe he’d make a false accusation of racial abuse .quoonbeatz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:13 pmUnless anyone else heard and confirmed what was said or theres another camera angle that captures his gob better, it’s unlikely there will be much happens with this, unfortunately.
It’s very clear he says “f*** you” a couple of times but that’s about it. From the tv replays it doesn’t look very conclusive but Hannibal’s reaction said it all.
The other thing to point out is that Osmanjic’s been at PNE for a season and a half now. Appreciate people will learn languages at different rates, but Preston need to be careful if they are thinking of going down the “he’s a foreigner who can’t pronounce English words very well” route. “Bad” and “black” (if reports are true) aren’t exactly advanced English.agreenwood wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:45 pmI’ve posted this several times now, but the FA test is “balance of probabilities” or “more likely than not”. As a result there does not need to be conclusive proof.
Was Osmanjic mouthing off at Hannibal? Yes.
Would Hannibal’s reaction suggest something beyond regular football sledging was said? Yes.
Did Hannibal immediately follow the FA guidance and report it to the match official? Yes.
Was Osmanjic very close to Hannibal at the time (to lessen the likelihood of what he said being inaudible)? Yes.
The only mitigation is that Osmanjic’s pronunciation is so poor that Hannibal mistook a non-racist insult for racist one.
If based on the above the FA panel are asking themselves whether it’s more likely than not that Osmanjic made a racist slur, I think there’s a fair chance he’s found guilty.
Also would have thought that sinking your teeth into the back of a players neck will probably be seen as someone who can be quite volatile and react accordingly. No doubt that will be taken into account.agreenwood wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:54 pmThe other thing to point out is that Osmanjic’s been at PNE for a season and a half now. Appreciate people will learn languages at different rates, but Preston need to be careful if they are thinking of going down the “he’s a foreigner who can’t pronounce English words very well” route. “Bad” and “black” (if reports are true) aren’t exactly advanced English.
Be a bit tough to stomach for some Preston fans with their conduct since the weekend. Comments seen include :-agreenwood wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:54 pmThe other thing to point out is that Osmanjic’s been at PNE for a season and a half now. Appreciate people will learn languages at different rates, but Preston need to be careful if they are thinking of going down the “he’s a foreigner who can’t pronounce English words very well” route.
Replaces Osmanjic with Jay Rod and Hannibal with Bong of Brighton.agreenwood wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 2:45 pmI’ve posted this several times now, but the FA test is “balance of probabilities” or “more likely than not”. As a result there does not need to be conclusive proof.
Was Osmanjic mouthing off at Hannibal? Yes.
Would Hannibal’s reaction suggest something beyond regular football sledging was said? Yes.
Did Hannibal immediately follow the FA guidance and report it to the match official? Yes.
Was Osmanjic very close to Hannibal at the time (to lessen the likelihood of what he said being inaudible)? Yes.
The only mitigation is that Osmanjic’s pronunciation is so poor that Hannibal mistook a non-racist insult for racist one.
If based on the above the FA panel are asking themselves whether it’s more likely than not that Osmanjic made a racist slur, I think there’s a fair chance he’s found guilty.
You could flip it around & bring the stamping incident into account if you view the whole shenanigans as both being as bad as each other. I'm not stating that's the case because I wasn't there but in some quarters mainly from the Preston persuasion that's the biased belief equally we are just as biased with our own viewpoints. It needs to be an independent neutral fair investigation to get to the bottom of what really happened if at all possible.
I don’t know the background behind PNE having to “remind their fans on a weekly basis not to be homophobic with their chanting”, is it a specific chant that they have?claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:01 pmBe a bit tough to stomach for some Preston fans with their conduct since the weekend. Comments seen include :-
Hope someone snaps Hannibal in 2
Hope Trafford gets hurt as well (I presume for showing support for a teammate)
Hannibal was making fun of Osmajic's brother which is why he called Hannibal a bad man (probably the thickest defence offered)
One of the mods on their forum has apparently been deleting posts defending Osmajic including a poster using the N word to describe going to the shop, and asking what is wrong with calling Hannibal a black man if that is what Osmajic did.
This is also the same fanbase that PNE have to remind their fans on a weekly basis not to be homophobic with their chanting. Good job they won't be taken into account as a character reference
Yeah aimed at Blackpool fans and their mums and dads, they seem to have a very unhealthy obsession with parents / families.DCWat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:12 pmI don’t know the background behind PNE having to “remind their fans on a weekly basis not to be homophobic with their chanting”, is it a specific chant that they have?
But for balance, it’s worth remembering that we too are subject to at least one, probably more, match day announcements about our zero tolerance policy towards racism, homophobia and offensive comments.
Absolutely classic Jim White. Bet he doesn't even believe that himself.jojomk1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 3:46 pmI didn't listen to the whole discussion but a few things from it:-
Simon Jordan was of the opinion it was a "he said, she said" scenario so very difficult to prove one way or the other although the FA could come down on the "possibility" it happened as described
Both Jordan and Danny Murphy acknowledged the surprise, even shock on Hannibal's face so he wasn't just playing this up, but the caveat still being that Hannibal was shocked with what he "thought" he had heard - unless others also confirmed they had heard the remarks
And Jim White decided this was a perfect reason for all players to be "mic'd" up during games
Yeah, a bit of a silly statement from me
It’s a fair point, but without reading the whole FA judgement from the Bong-Rodriguez incident, it’s hard to say if the circumstances are directly comparable. It’s also 7 years ago. Attitudes, approaches and procedures can change.
Yep. Unless someone heard it, it's going to be difficult despite the balance of probablility lying with Hannibal based on the circumstantial stuff we've seen.Anonymous Claret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 4:51 pmYeah, a bit of a silly statement from me
I stand by the fact that he shouldn't be found guilty unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt
It is I think.dougcollins wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:01 pmIsn't that how Civil Courts work, balance of probability as opposed to hard evidence?
I’ve considered that viewpoint and concluded to myself that the main difference is that Jay Rod has been and continues to be a player with high levels of professionalism and morals; whereas Osmanjic has recently been guilty of biting another human being live on TV.
It’s unlikely he’ll be found not guilty unless there’s a key piece of evidence that shows he definitely didn’t make a racist remark. He’ll be found guilty or the case will be “not proven”.Anonymous Claret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:17 pmIt is I think.
It doesn't mean that it is right though.
I think he is guilty but I could be wrong.
If there is any reasonable doubt he should be cleared.
That’s why Heckingbottom said it…Ashingtonclaret46 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 1:57 pmOne thing that struck me was what Paul Heckingbottom said after the match about Osmajic speaking a lot of languages and that Heckingbottom didn't understand a lot of his spoken English -----that strikes me as a possible get out for Osmajic.
Right. Him biting another player does bring his character into question but doesn't mean he's guilty, or even suggest he's racist. I do think it's likely he said something racist but unless it can be proven I don't personally think he should be found guilty of anything.Rick_Muller wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:22 pmI’ve considered that viewpoint and concluded to myself that the main difference is that Jay Rod has been and continues to be a player with high levels of professionalism and morals; whereas Osmanjic has recently been guilty of biting another human being live on TV.
The comparison is not really valid but I understand why some would make it.
Jay Rod has been about a lot longer & is older a senior of about 10 years aside of the maturity, Jay has spent all his life here playing football whereas MO hasn’t been here 18 months. There’s plenty of time for him to learn the error of his ways & realise the way he’s going about things are unacceptable. Wisdom comes with time when he’s Jays age he won’t be doing the same sort of antics.Rick_Muller wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:22 pmI’ve considered that viewpoint and concluded to myself that the main difference is that Jay Rod has been and continues to be a player with high levels of professionalism and morals; whereas Osmanjic has recently been guilty of biting another human being live on TV.
The comparison is not really valid but I understand why some would make it.
My understanding is the preston player checked in on a human level to see if HM was ok & not necessarily an implication of guilt & who can say who’ll step forward to assist MO with a character reference. We are assuming nobody but we don’t really know.daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:02 pmNo idea if Jay did it but one noteworthy thing from the defence is the list of character witnesses which included former managers of his Howe and Pochettino and former teammate Adam Lallana. Might suspect that with a teammate supposedly apologising for his behaviour and a bite on his rapsheet, good character might not be such a boon for Osmajic's defence.
If we are to view how bong interpreted JR alleged remarks it's also wise to consider how HM interpreted MO alleged remarks. Assuming it was all in English it's easier for 2 people to be more mistaken when it's not their mother tongue than somebody english & somebody from Cameroon.Lu-tze wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:29 pmI’ll repeat what I said on the thread that got deleted
I know we’re biased in that a lot of us knew it was totally out of character for jay but I always thought his version of events was totally plausible- someone shouting in your face and responding with ‘your breath effing stinks’- not big or clever but something similar to what we’ve all heard playing football.
Equally plausible was that Bong’s claim was made in good faith, let’s face it a Burnley accent is not easily understood by most people never mind someone for whom English is not their first language.
I always just felt that ‘you’re black and you stink’ was not something even a racist pr!ck would have been likely to say, ‘eff off you black whatever’ or the like would have been far more plausible al la John Terry, Suarez etc.
Which brings us to ozmajic- are we really buying that he said ‘eff you eff you…….you bad man’! I mean come on!! It’s just not plausible in anyway shape or form!
It was really sad to me that no footage was ever found to prove it either way in jay’s case as it hung over him and Bong for the rest of their careers when in all likelihood neither of them did anything wrong and it did neither of them any favours and brought the worst out in both sets of fans.
I really hope footage can be found in this case and clear it up beyond doubt for the sake of everyone involved.
I think the issue is less what Hannibal thought he heard and more that Ozmajic’s defence is that what he said was ‘eff you, eff you… you bad man’.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:37 pmIf we are to view how bong interpreted JR alleged remarks it's also wise to consider how HM interpreted MO alleged remarks. Assuming it was all in English it's easier for 2 people to be more mistaken when it's not their mother tongue than somebody english & somebody from Cameroon.
It does seem flimsy but I don't know what HM grasp of english is like that's what it might hinge on.
He’s been here for 6 years and speaks English pretty fluently. I reckon he’ll know the difference between a racist slur and a non-racist slur.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2025 8:49 pmIt does seem flimsy but I don't know what HM grasp of english is like that's what it might hinge on.