Just watching a few things and he came up with something I've not heard before and I for one think it's a basis of a good idea

Refs go to the screens for every red card and penalty they give with zero input from VAR whatsoever

We need to get the responsibility of the decision back in the hands of the bloke on the pitch.

I would imagine VAR would still get involved for things they missed though.

VAR would still be whispering in his ear!

VAR appear to show the pictures and frames according to their desired outcome! The TV show their offering then when you see VAR, they start at different place and different angles.

Could the Rugby Union situation be applied to VAR in football? Wheret the decisions and the reasons for them are broadcast to the whole stadium.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:04 pm

Could the Rugby Union situation be applied to VAR in football? Wheret the decisions and the reasons for them are broadcast to the whole stadium.

They have trailed this in the Carabao cup, not sure what the benefits are.

The biggest problem I have with it is it’s almost like the referee in the booth is trying his very best to convince and sway the onfield referee.

Showing him only certain angles, still frames or slowing it down. It’s manipulation at its finest. Any challenge can look worse if you’re altering the speed of the replay.

Although broadcasting the outcome may be helpful for those of us in the crowd who have no idea what is going on, I think the best thing that football can learn from rugby is that the referee is in charge of the process. In other words a goal is only checked if the referee needs to clarify what happened. He tells the VAR what he wants checking eg ‘I think No 11 was offside in the buildup’ or ‘Can you please check if No 8 handled the ball?’ If he doesn’t see anything a goal or penalty is awarded unless there is a clear howler eg the dive last week. In this way the ref retains control and VAR is not looking for a reason to disallow a goal.
Having said this the biggest improvement would come from getting rid of VAR altogether

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:58 pm

VAR would still be whispering in his ear!

VAR appear to show the pictures and frames according to their desired outcome! The TV show their offering then when you see VAR, they start at different place and different angles.

It stinks of corruption!

Scrap it although

There’s never going to be a perfect system and there will always be bias in terms of what the ref is shown on the screen.

That said, there is unusual credit in what Simon Jordan has said here.

I’d like the VAR ref to be an official who merely refers decisions to a further three man panel. The three man panel are not at the ground and they are not watching the game.

When the panel receive a decision to review it is crucial they are NOT told what onfield decision has been made, they are only asked to give a decision.

For example, last season against Luton they would simply be asked. “Foul or no foul?” for the block on Trafford.

The three refs on the panel would each have independent access to all of the available camera angles. They would curate and edit their own views. They wouldn’t be allowed to discuss it. They simply watch the footage and give a verdict.

If the panel agree 3-0 against the onfield decision it is overturned.

If the panel has a 2-1 majority against the onfield decision it could either be overturned or then perhaps have the onfield ref invited to review his decision.

If the blind panel agree with the onfield decision by 2-1 majority or unanimous then the onfield decision stands.

For me the simplest thing would be to give managers two VAR reviews per game. If they feel a decision is wrong they can call the ref to the screen within 10 seconds of the decision and without a replay themselves. All replays real time but from all angles. No VAR contact unless it’s to confirm the rules.

On offsides, linesman’s decision is final unless a manager uses one of their challenges.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:54 pm

For me the simplest thing would be to give managers two VAR reviews per game. If they feel a decision is wrong they can call the ref to the screen within 10 seconds of the decision and without a replay themselves. All replays real time but from all angles. No VAR contact unless it’s to confirm the rules.

On offsides, linesman’s decision is final unless a manager uses one of their challenges.

Agree with this and it could be so much quicker and simpler this way, I'd make sure the communication between the referee and VAR was played so everybody at home or in the stands can hear it for clarity to avoid any calls of corruption.

Only problem we've got is the cheating professionals who are managers or players is that as soon as a decision goes against them after they've used up their challenges they'll be all over TV saying it's ridiculous a decision can be wrong when it's there for all to see.

bumba wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 6:07 pm

Agree with this and it could be so much quicker and simpler this way, I'd make sure the communication between the referee and VAR was played so everybody at home or in the stands can hear it for clarity to avoid any calls of corruption.

Only problem we've got is the cheating professionals who are managers or players is that as soon as a decision goes against them after they've used up their challenges they'll be all over TV saying it's ridiculous a decision can be wrong when it's there for all to see.

Yeah, agree on the VAR discussions being public. Although in my example they would only be able to speak to them to confirm the rules if the ref requested.

For example, in DOGSO they have to consider ball direction, covering defenders and the impact of the contact, and I’d have no issue with the ref being reminded of the things he has to assess, just not the opinion of the VAR refs.

Refs should then be accountable for explaining the decision to captains and managers, maybe also the stadium as well so fans know why the decision was taken.

Also, if a decision was reversed after seeing VAR they’d maintain their VAR challenge, but they should have a low number of them to avoid misuse.

They need to scrap clear and obvious, same as umpires call in cricket, it's either right or wrong.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:28 pm

Just watching a few things and he came up with something I've not heard before and I for one think it's a basis of a good idea

Refs go to the screens for every red card and penalty they give with zero input from VAR whatsoever

We need to get the responsibility of the decision back in the hands of the bloke on the pitch.

I would imagine VAR would still get involved for things they missed though.

All this should have been decided from the start. My personal opinion is that it's far too late to be adjusting things it's already complicated enough as it is & quite frankly nobody seems to know what they are doing. You either scrap the thing & have the courage of your convictions or accept it in its current format. I don't think it would work with you can do this & you can't do that & the power's that be won't be willing to readily accept that they've made an horlicks of it & backing down would be an admission of that.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:54 pm

For me the simplest thing would be to give managers two VAR reviews per game. If they feel a decision is wrong they can call the ref to the screen within 10 seconds of the decision and without a replay themselves. All replays real time but from all angles. No VAR contact unless it’s to confirm the rules.

On offsides, linesman’s decision is final unless a manager uses one of their challenges.

The trouble with this is not much happens in a game that needs challenging so they'd probably challenge almost every goal/red card.

Earpieces are the devils work. Games aren’t reffed on the pitch anymore. The guy in the studio should stay quiet and unused unless asked by the onfield ref. When he’s engaged, publicise it like in rugby so there’s no “silly buggers”.

I’d like every ref to review their match on a Monday morning and check every incident where red or yellow cards were awarded or not and revise where necessary. It shouldn’t need to go to appeal if he is happy with his decision it stands. Likewise if he missed something he can correct it.
One of my main bug bears is players screaming lies in the refs face. He has a game to referee without their interference. If they are seen to have blatantly lied and then harangued him they should be carded.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 7:04 pm

Earpieces are the devils work. Games aren’t reffed on the pitch anymore. The guy in the studio should stay quiet and unused unless asked by the onfield ref. When he’s engaged, publicise it like in rugby so there’s no “silly buggers”.

Every so often you see a bad looking challenge that the referee blows for and then waits an unusual amount of time before showing either a yellow or red card. I’m convinced that one of the VAR officials is advising the ref which card to show having watched a replay.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 7:33 pm

Every so often you see a bad looking challenge that the referee blows for and then waits an unusual amount of time before showing either a yellow or red card. I’m convinced that one of the VAR officials is advising the ref which card to show having watched a replay.

That’s spot on. Thing is, the commentator blows smoke up the refs arse by suggesting he’s giving himself “thinking time”, but it’s the guy in his ear telling him what to do.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 6:56 pm

The trouble with this is not much happens in a game that needs challenging so they'd probably challenge almost every goal/red card.

Possibly, but with only two challenges, most would be cautious to save them for scenarios that could occur rather than use them frivolously, I think.

I agree it could become somewhat opportunistic if both managers have challenges remaining towards the end of a game. For example, last minute winners would be challenged regardless, you’d expect.

But I do think this system a) puts the ref back in control, b) avoids managers complaining x or y should’ve been reviewed as they’d have the power to do that during the game, and c) would add a bit more interest to the game for fans knowing their manager holds the key to having decisions reviewed but had to use them wisely - would add to the drama and talking points of the game if they were misused, etc.

There’s also the slight issue that managers wouldn’t be able to see everything, for example offside decisions, but players could signal to them if they thought it worth challenging.

Here's an idea, why can't VAR be used for clear and obvious errors? If a goal has been given but the attacker is 6" offside, let the goal stand. If the offside is clearly visible with no need for different angles and lines on the screen etc, disallow it as it is a clear error.

If there is any doubt over any decision and it takes several minutes to decide by VAR or refer to the on field referee, then it isn't clear and obvious so stay with the on field decision.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:19 pm

The biggest problem I have with it is it’s almost like the referee in the booth is trying his very best to convince and sway the onfield referee.

Showing him only certain angles, still frames or slowing it down. It’s manipulation at its finest. Any challenge can look worse if you’re altering the speed of the replay.

Like the Ashley Barnes handball at Spurs that effectively relegated us. It just seemed like VAR was desperate to find SOMETHING, as innocuous as it was.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:58 pm

VAR would still be whispering in his ear!

VAR appear to show the pictures and frames according to their desired outcome! The TV show their offering then when you see VAR, they start at different place and different angles.

Good point

Anonymous Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 8:16 pm

Here's an idea, why can't VAR be used for clear and obvious errors? If a goal has been given but the attacker is 6" offside, let the goal stand. If the offside is clearly visible with no need for different angles and lines on the screen etc, disallow it as it is a clear error.

If there is any doubt over any decision and it takes several minutes to decide by VAR or refer to the on field referee, then it isn't clear and obvious so stay with the on field decision.

What I find extremely irritating is the bringing into play of knees, toes and bums. Even a head peering round the back of a defender, just to see the ball coming in. If the lino was judging, they see a body level or ahead. Ahead offside, seemingly level all ok...benefit of the doubt.

What happened to 'normal expectancy'?

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 10:47 pm

What happened to 'normal expectancy'?

Or 'level'?

Just scrap the whole, gormless, flawed, nonfunctioning circus they call VAR.

Silly idea really. Refs would start giving multiple penalties every game, knowing they can check. Saying he now gives 5 Possible penalties, stops the game, goes to the screen, 2+ Minutes to check all angles. That’s 10-15 minutes added to the game.

Just get rid of the VAR shitshow. And get back to playing football on the pitch in the stadium. Not refereed hundreds of miles away, with only those sat at home knowing what’s going on?

No way they’ll change VAR or scrap it. A cushy little number for all the refs who get their turn in the chair every other week plus Sky sports get so much coverage out of the crap decisions they continue to make. Former refs now becoming studio pundits says it all.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 7:33 pm

Every so often you see a bad looking challenge that the referee blows for and then waits an unusual amount of time before showing either a yellow or red card. I’m convinced that one of the VAR officials is advising the ref which card to show having watched a replay.

There was some fella got sent off for forest this season when the 4th official told the ref to change his decision which is even more ridiculous. Ref had, correctly, given a throw in.

If I remember rightly it seems to work far better in rugby union where the on field ref can ask for certain angles etc, and so seems as though the off field team are there to assist rather than instruct.

The way it's currently being used has put me off watching the Premier League over the past couple of years.

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:54 am

There was some fella got sent off for forest this season when the 4th official told the ref to change his decision which is even more ridiculous. Ref had, correctly, given a throw in.

Yeah I remember that. The fourth official isn’t even tasked with fully concentrating on the game so I’ve got no idea why they should be allowed to affect an on-field decision.

Let's just hope that 'refereeing by committee' doesn't spread into the lower divisions and spoil the game for many more fans.
Don't forget that we have 7 officials involved in our cup tie at Preston on Saturday with four at the match and three 'influencers' sitting some 214 miles away.

MrTopTier wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:07 pm

They have trailed this in the Carabao cup, not sure what the benefits are.

Maybe no benefits but at least the players and manager will know why a decision has been made. Of course there is more discipline in rugby.

Each team get one challenge per half, if you win the challenge then you retain it, if you lose the challenge then you lose it. You can only challenge on red card, penalty or foul/handball in goal build up.

Stockley Park are only involved for offside decisions (which are not part of the challenge set up) and even that can go one automated offsides get involved.

Once a team makes a challenge the ref approaches the monitor, sees 3 replays maximum of the incident and makes a decision. No other VAR refs or anyone else in the ref's ear, he/she just makes the decision themselves.

I sometimes wonder whether some electronics nerd could devise a 'jammer' that would prevent the ref's receipt of messages. Imagine 10,000 of those going off at once!!

Let’s get back to having a proper game, get rid of VAR altogether along with tippy tappy football, whilst we’re at it this stupid offside rule letting play go on until the official decides to put his flag up is another annoyance to fans, if your offside you’re offside so put the flag up straightaway.