BBC News - Lancashire devolution: Burnley councillors oppose Blackburn with Darwen merger - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyzgq02nxwo

The Government is undertaking a long overdue rationalisation of Local Government in Lancashire. LCC is far too big and remote and having two tiers is inefficient and confusing.

Currently there are 2 all-purpose (Unitary) Councils (Blackpool and Blackburn with Darwen) and 12 District Councils. The latter work alongside LCC. Burnley being one of the 12. There are approx 1,500,000 people in Lancs. All 15 existing Councils will go, unless LCC gets to run the lot, which would be barmy.

The Government has so far said that all new Councils must have at least a 500,000 population, meaning a maximum of 3 Unitary Councils. Imo 500,000 is far too large to be meaningful to local people and anything between 200,000 and 400,000 would be about right. Cost and geography are important, as is how people identify with their areas.

Blackburn want 1 Council for all of East Lancs, guess what, based on them. I assume Blackburn would want to swallow up Burnley, Pendle, Rossendale, Hyndburn and Ribble Valley. A population of around 550,000. Burnley Council is willing to be part of a Unitary, but not one that includes Blackburn. I guess most if not all of the others Districts in East Lancs feel the same.

On balance, I'd like to see the following Unitary Councils created:-

1. Burnley based on Burnley, Pendle, Rossendale and the eastern parts of Ribble Valley, including Clitheroe and Whalley. Approx.pop. 275,000.

2. Blackburn, based on Blackburn, Darwen, Hyndburn and the south west areas of Ribble Valley near Blackburn and parts of Chorley, including the Town. Approx.pop. 300,000.

3. Blackpool, based on Blackpool, Fydle and most of Wyre. Aporox. pop. 300,000

4. Lancaster, based on Lancaster, north Wyre and the north west areas of Ribble Valley, to possibly include part of the south Lakes.

5. Preston, based on Preston, South Ribble, West Lancs and west of Chorley.

Any thoughts?

Given social care in these Councils and East Lancs hospital Trust it makes sense to be with Blackburn doesn’t it?

Any involvement with Blackburn is not a good move especially how we were stitched up with A&E .

Stonehouse wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 12:42 pm

Any involvement with Blackburn is not a good move especially how we were stitched up with A&E .

Good place to go it you need stitching to be done on you.

Hmmm I'm not sure this is something we're allowed to discuss on here?

However, as a non-natuve I'll chip in my two-penneth before DA gets the chance.

Given that we don't want to join Bl*ckb*rn I vote we switch allegiance and join Yorkshire forming a county partnership with Keighley, Skipton and possibly subsuming Bradford.

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

The problem with your scenario is that it doesn't meet the criteria set out by the government. Needs to be 500,000 people. We will be in with Blackburn sooner or later, and I don't think it's particularly a bad thing. They've ran services from Blackburn that Burnley council have no idea how to do, such as children's services.

We can't base democracy and improvements to the local area on a football rivalry imo.

We've already had a restructure up here in South Lakes with Westmorland and Cumberland councils shifting about a bit.

Makes sense to abolish the two tier system. So in favour of an East Lancs unitary authority

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Hmmm I'm not sure this is something we're allowed to discuss on here?

However, as a non-natuve I'll chip in my two-penneth before DA gets the chance.

Given that we don't want to join Bl*ckb*rn I vote we switch allegiance and join Yorkshire forming a county partnership with Keighley, Skipton and possibly subsuming Bradford.

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

Bradford Council keeps fighting off bankruptcy.

Google Bradford Live to read about their wastefulness.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 12:38 pm

Given social care in these Councils and East Lancs hospital Trust it makes sense to be with Blackburn doesn’t it?

If the Government were to delegate running health services in East Lancs to a new Unitary then I might be more inclined to agree. It'll never happen.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

I thought the Doomsday book listed the Blackburn Hundred as part of Yorkshire before Lancashire was formed, and Burnley was so small at the time it wasn’t listed, but the area of the current town was within the Blackburn Hundred?

So Burnley as a town has never been part of Yorkshire, though the entire area, including Blackburn, was?

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:07 pm

Good place to go it you need stitching to be done on you.

Yes ,providing you’re willing to wait 4 hrs ,and that’s if your lucky enough to get out of the dreadful place alive.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:30 pm

Bradford Council keeps fighting off bankruptcy.

Almost every council in England is struggling to stave off bankruptcy. It all started with Sunak's idea, when Chancellor, that local authorities could spend their reserves to provide services rather than increase the Central Support Grant. That was fine, until councils started to run out of reserves and services that could be legally cut and went to the government asking for a re-instatement to the higher level of CSG they would be getting should the earlier cutback not have happened, and were soundly rejected, with Ministers stating that there was still excess weight in Council budgets that could be used instead. But Councils still had to provide the compulsory services - which is why those services have seen a denigration in service quality, pay peanuts, get monkeys!

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Hmmm I'm not sure this is something we're allowed to discuss on here?

However, as a non-natuve I'll chip in my two-penneth before DA gets the chance.

Given that we don't want to join Bl*ckb*rn I vote we switch allegiance and join Yorkshire forming a county partnership with Keighley, Skipton and possibly subsuming Bradford.

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

Burnley has no history as a Yorkshire town. It was a system of villages and hamlets consolidated into a new town in the 1850’s-60’s when the railway arrived. The largest settled area was Marsden (now part of Nelson) and that is described as part of the first Methodist circuit in England based in Lancashire (Pendle and Rossendale) in the 1740’s. Palatine Lancashire was among the first recognised counties and Brunlea and Towneley were recognised manors within it, as of the 1600’s (when Lancashire extended to the Pennines and down as far as Derby) while Yorkshire was still split into the “Rydings”

Blackburn council have an appalling reputation for money wasting and ego projects. They have taken one of the most vibrant town centres in the country (including a Victorian market) and made it into a bus stop and car-park. I’d say Hyndburn was a good central location but not based on the current Hyndburn council because they’ve done pretty much as much damage to the town as their neighbours in Blackburn have.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 3:08 pm

Burnley has no history as a Yorkshire town...

As Claretforever has posted, Burnley is in Yorkshire in the Domesday book.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 3:22 pm

As Claretforever has posted, Burnley is in Yorkshire in the Domesday book.

I’d be interested to see that reference, as in it from the original document or a modern translation. I have no deep knowledge of the Norman administration. As of Tudor England it wasn’t, and Lancaster was made the administration centre for as the entire area was still considered the “Wild North West” it the later Norman period; a label that was still applied to East Lancs in the 1740’s…

If we are going back that far it was part of the Celtic kingdom of Setantia during he Roman occupation.

I wouldn’t oppose a NEW Great Blackborneshire Council, in honour of the former collective name for the great forests of Blackburn (forest of the dark lake), Pendle, Trawden and Rossendale that was felled by Charter of Henry VIII. Obviously it would need to be a completely new administration, as obviously it would have to be sited away from any current town influence/bias

summitclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 12:34 pm

4. Lancaster, based on Lancaster, north Wyre and the north west areas of Ribble Valley, to possibly include part of the south Lakes.

Trying to recreate the pre-1974 Lancashire?

Couldn't find any reference to Burnley, Brunlea Brun Lea or any other former name in the online Domesday book.
Can you show me please where it says Burnley was previously in Yorkshire.
https://opendomesday.org/

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Hmmm I'm not sure this is something we're allowed to discuss on here?

However, as a non-natuve I'll chip in my two-penneth before DA gets the chance.

Given that we don't want to join Bl*ckb*rn I vote we switch allegiance and join Yorkshire forming a county partnership with Keighley, Skipton and possibly subsuming Bradford.

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

You sound just like that fool…

If you want to see what this would mean to Burnley just read the Lancashire Telegraph or listen to Radio Lancashire to see what Blackburn centric the council would be.

mikeS wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:23 pm

Couldn't find any reference to Burnley, Brunlea Brun Lea or any other former name in the online Domesday book.
Can you show me please where it says Burnley was previously in Yorkshire.
https://opendomesday.org/

Yes. Certainly.

Of course I can.

It's right here on this thread, just after I'd referenced DA and gave birth to my idea baby.

Sadly my own copy of the Domesday Book is in storage so I'm not able to provide a page number but from memory, it's in the part above the midlands focusing on the North. Under "Y".

For Yorkshire.

Volvoclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:45 pm

If you want to see what this would mean to Burnley just read the Lancashire Telegraph or listen to Radio Lancashire to see what Blackburn centric the council would be.

Small town in Blackburn.

Perhaps if Burnley were to merge with Blackburn, the new name could be a portmanteau taking the ‘Burn’ from Blackburn and the ‘ley’ from Burnley. Seems fair.

"having two tiers is inefficient and confusing".
Keir isn't usually confused with the concept of two tier.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:09 pm

Hmmm I'm not sure this is something we're allowed to discuss on here?

However, as a non-natuve I'll chip in my two-penneth before DA gets the chance.

Given that we don't want to join Bl*ckb*rn I vote we switch allegiance and join Yorkshire forming a county partnership with Keighley, Skipton and possibly subsuming Bradford.

Burnley has, historically, been a Yorkshire town and we would only be reverting to that.

As a Skiptonian, Rowls, I wholeheartedly agree.

Rowls,
Burnley isn't listed in the Domesday book. Burn Lea, Brun Lea or any other combination isn't listed on a search.
So what evidence do you have to back up your claim?

Rowls wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:47 pm

Yes. Certainly.

Of course I can.

It's right here on this thread, just after I'd referenced DA and gave birth to my idea baby.

Sadly my own copy of the Domesday Book is in storage so I'm not able to provide a page number but from memory, it's in the part above the midlands focusing on the North. Under "Y".

For Yorkshire.

What a ridiculous and condescending post to one of our most respected posters.

Really hope this is fought hard and doesn’t happen.

The thought Burnley is run from Blackburn in future is quite scary and I agree with the proposal of the OP on having seperate UC’s for Burnley and Blackburn. That would make much more sense but sounds very unlikely if the government recommendation is a minimum 500k population?

Does anyone know who will ultimately decide on this or the timing?

Goalkeeper wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 8:00 am

What a ridiculous and condescending post to one of our most respected posters.

Oh dear. Is there now a quasi-religious order of posters who must not be teased and who we must assume do not have a sense of humour?

I think not.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 8:22 am

Really hope this is fought hard and doesn’t happen.

The thought Burnley is run from Blackburn in future is quite scary and I agree with the proposal of the OP on having seperate UC’s for Burnley and Blackburn. That would make much more sense but sounds very unlikely if the government recommendation is a minimum 500k population?

Does anyone know who will ultimately decide on this or the timing?

Ultimately if they don't decide between themselves, central government will make the decision.

Going back to say we are partnering with Ribble valley or Rossendale won't cut it, doesn't meet the requirement. I believe Pendle are already working on buddying up with Skipton area etc.

It's going to happen, I think it'll be a positive thing personally

GetIntoEm wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 8:50 am

Ultimately if they don't decide between themselves, central government will make the decision.

Going back to say we are partnering with Ribble valley or Rossendale won't cut it, doesn't meet the requirement. I believe Pendle are already working on buddying up with Skipton area etc.

It's going to happen, I think it'll be a positive thing personally

I’d much rather we joined the buddy up with Skipton and Pendle to be honest.

I’m not against simplification and less money centrally controlled. I can see huge benefits in that, but if we’re in with Blackburn we will always get the rough end of the stick.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 8:58 am

I’d much rather we joined the buddy up with Skipton and Pendle to be honest.

I’m not against simplification and less money centrally controlled. I can see huge benefits in that, but if we’re in with Blackburn we will always get the rough end of the stick.

It makes absolutely no sense for Burnley to be part of North Yorkshire unitary authority

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:30 pm

Bradford Council keeps fighting off bankruptcy.

Google Bradford Live to read about their wastefulness.

What, the current European City of Culture?

Surely not.

taio wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 9:14 am

It makes absolutely no sense for Burnley to be part of North Yorkshire unitary authority

I didn’t say it made sense, I said I’d prefer it over being part of one run from Blackburn.

As expected, Lancs Councils can't agree on a proposal for the future structure of Local Government in the County.


https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2025/03/l ... proposals/

Looks like so far no other Council wants to be merged with Blackburn, but not heard anything about Hyndburn yet. I think the warmth between Preston, Lancaster and Ribble Valley more or means that we will be in an East Lancs Unitary with Blackburn, Pendle, Rossendale and Hyndburn.

https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2025/03/p ... -shake-up/

Just reading about Skipton. That's a non-starter. Craven was reorganised into a unitary with NYCC. Best hope is to pick your allies like what Lancaster are doing. Would suggest Rossendale, Hyndburn, Pendle and Burnley to avoid being dumped in with Blackburn. Not sure about population but would argue that public resistance would mean Blackburn is not acceptable.

Two certainties in any form of government decisions. 1 - they always believe they will get better service for less money by making it bigger. 2 - they're always wrong.

xxmunkyennuixx wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:53 pm

Just reading about Skipton. That's a non-starter. Craven was reorganised into a unitary with NYCC. Best hope is to pick your allies like what Lancaster are doing. Would suggest Rossendale, Hyndburn, Pendle and Burnley to avoid being dumped in with Blackburn. Not sure about population but would argue that public resistance would mean Blackburn is not acceptable.

Don’t think that would anywhere near the 500k minimum unfortunately.

mikeS wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:23 pm

Couldn't find any reference to Burnley, Brunlea Brun Lea or any other former name in the online Domesday book.
Can you show me please where it says Burnley was previously in Yorkshire.
https://opendomesday.org/

Scots wrote it. Look for Bun Li

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:28 pm

Don’t think that would anywhere near the 500k minimum unfortunately.

No it wouldn't but I guess it would work. 500k is too many anyway. Blackpool and Blackburn are both unitary authorities now and way short of 500K so it should be possible to argue less than 500k works

summitclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 31, 2025 7:56 pm

Looks like so far no other Council wants to be merged with Blackburn, but not heard anything about Hyndburn yet. I think the warmth between Preston, Lancaster and Ribble Valley more or means that we will be in an East Lancs Unitary with Blackburn, Pendle, Rossendale and Hyndburn.

https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2025/03/p ... -shake-up/

Living in Blackburn, I wouldn't recommend anyone joining anything run by this council

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:15 pm

I didn’t say it made sense, I said I’d prefer it over being part of one run from Blackburn.

It could be the best council ever ( its not) but some wouldn't be happy because it had Blackburn in the title

Row x wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 01, 2025 8:52 pm

It could be the best council ever ( its not) but some wouldn't be happy because it had Blackburn in the title

Seems fair.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 01, 2025 9:45 pm

Seems fair.

Or petty
Guess they wouldn't want their lives saving at a Blackburn hospital either

Row x wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 01, 2025 8:52 pm

It could be the best council ever ( its not) but some wouldn't be happy because it had Blackburn in the title

I think sometimes you just have to realise that no self respecting large football town is going to want to be run by a council based at their local rivals.

The people won’t like it therefore it’s destined for failure.

Hopefully there’s some common sense demonstrated somewhere along the line but I won’t hold my breath.

Just seen a post on a local FB this morning claiming Lancs County Council are 1.3B in debt, paying 124k a week in interest payments.

Madness

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 02, 2025 10:18 am

I think sometimes you just have to realise that no self respecting large football town is going to want to be run by a council based at their local rivals.

The people won’t like it therefore it’s destined for failure.

Hopefully there’s some common sense demonstrated somewhere along the line but I won’t hold my breath.

If services provided by a council, are good for it's residents, football should not come into it.