New manager, new ideas, step forward England's new captain.

This guy is very impressive, you'd definitely warm, respect and respond to this chap, exactly what a captain should be.

Strange how it's taken so long to make the England squad, clearly an absolute rock and just what England need.

England squad - yes

England starting eleven - hmm

England captain - no chance

Some one posted on here the other day that he was crap.

He's not a world class defender

We don't win the world cup with Dan Burn in the starting 11

Stonehouse wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 7:40 pm

Some one posted on here the other day that he was crap.

That was me and I stand by it. He should be absolutely nowhere near a England starting 11. Can't fault the lad for what he's achieved, but he's not a world class player.

Despite the price tags - there are very few world class players

We don't need a world class player in every position to win things. It's finding the right blend which is important.

It looks.like Tuchel is looking to have a couple of.good, experienced pros in the dressing room that will help to set the standards behind the scenes. It could be a smart move.

Are any of our other defenders "world class"?

No one can adequatley define "world class"

Wile E Coyote wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:53 pm

No one can adequatley define "world class"

Gets banded about too much for me. I'd say it means you get in just about any team in the world.

Goliath wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:28 pm

We don't need a world class player in every position to win things. It's finding the right blend which is important.

It looks.like Tuchel is looking to have a couple of.good, experienced pros in the dressing room that will help to set the standards behind the scenes. It could be a smart move.

Exactly this.

Argentina started the world cup final with a back four of Tagliafico, Otamendi, Romero and Molina.

All good players in their own right but not a huge amount of difference in quality from the likes of Dan Burn, if any.

I think DB is an excellent player. I watched him on occasion with Wigan and thought he maybe a good fit for us. I think he's earned his belated chance on merit. He's adaptable, can play LCB in a 3 or 4 and can play LB a problem area for England. On top of that he'll roll his sleeves up, is a leader and is grateful for his chance. I'd certainly consider him to start.

A 'World class' player says to me that if a current 'World best 11' was picked, he would be in that team.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:04 am

A 'World class' player says to me that if a current 'World best 11' was picked, he would be in that team.

Really? Or just getting sucked into the media narrative?

Goliath wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:28 pm

We don't need a world class player in every position to win things. It's finding the right blend which is important.

It looks.like Tuchel is looking to have a couple of.good, experienced pros in the dressing room that will help to set the standards behind the scenes. It could be a smart move.

Never quite got the notion of a player or players 'being useful in the dressing room'. I thought that was down to the entourage of backroom staff that all managers these days appear to have. Those out on the pitch are the ones that set the standards and the manager is paid to create the best team he can from his chosen squad.

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:54 pm

Never quite got the notion of a player or players 'being useful in the dressing room'. I thought that was down to the entourage of backroom staff that all managers these days appear to have. Those out on the pitch are the ones that set the standards and the manager is paid to create the best team he can from his chosen squad.

I don't think so. Common view from.players/ex players is that it's them who lead that. The same has been said about all of Gerrard/Keane/Terry/Henderson etc along with many others, that they are the ones that keep the standards high.

I think we've had the same with Brownhill, Cork, Mee, Barnes, Jay Rod, Heaton etc. We could easily have collapsed down the league without them after relegations.

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:54 pm

Never quite got the notion of a player or players 'being useful in the dressing room'. I thought that was down to the entourage of backroom staff that all managers these days appear to have. Those out on the pitch are the ones that set the standards and the manager is paid to create the best team he can from his chosen squad.

I think if you look at any successful football team, or sports team in general, you will have leaders on the pitch and players who lead by example with their attitude and professionalism. It's obviously a huge factor for success in elite sport so I'm surprised you don't get the notion.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:04 am

A 'World class' player says to me that if a current 'World best 11' was picked, he would be in that team.

I'd agree with that. Going off on a bit of a tangent here is it just me or is there a shortage of players who fall into that category these days?
When i was younger if you said name a world XI i could have instantly picked a right back, the likes of Thuram or Cafu, Maldini, Cannavaro etc.
Maybe its just that i'm not as interested as i used to be but everybody just seems much of a muchness these days. Even the Argentina team that won the World cup only really had Messi who would definetely get in a World 11.

He is big and ok as a defender. Not beat at anything and far from best in Prem.

Getting into a World X1 cannot be the metric by which a player is considered to be world class.
That would mean there are only 11 world class players at any one time, but as deciding who gets in the team is so subjective, I reckon there would always be a minimum of at least 33-40 world class players at any one time.

For example, I'd be considering Haaland, Isak and Gyokeres for a single position, so to me all 3 are world class and I'm sure other posters might have others to consider as first choice in that position.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 2:48 pm

Getting into a World X1 cannot be the metric by which a player is considered to be world class.
That would mean there are only 11 world class players at any one time, but as deciding who gets in the team is so subjective, I reckon there would always be a minimum of at least 33-40 world class players at any one time.

For example, I'd be considering Haaland, Isak and Gyokeres for a single position, so to me all 3 are world class and I'm sure other posters might have others to consider as first choice in that position.

Another consideration is would the number 1 world class left back be in the top 11 world class players?

A World X1 based on the top 11 world class players would most likely be very unbalanced.

Goliath wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:28 pm

We don't need a world class player in every position to win things. It's finding the right blend which is important.

It looks.like Tuchel is looking to have a couple of.good, experienced pros in the dressing room that will help to set the standards behind the scenes. It could be a smart move.

Alan Ball once said that England won the World Cup with four world class players who he said were Gordon Banks, Bobby Moore, Ray Wilson & Bobby Charlton.

I wouldn't worry about what World Class means anyway, it's all just opinions. Dan Burn isn't world class but was awesome on Sunday and deservedly a winner. Mo Salah is world class but may as well have sat in the stands for that one and rightly lost.

So in a tournament of 4 or 5 meaningful games, yeah you need quality players but it's more about who 'turns up'. Greece won the Euros in 2004 and France went home in the Group stages in 2002 with an undoubtedly 'world class' squad.

Dan looks like the 2025 equivalent of Big Jack Charlton who always said he couldn't play football but could stop other folk playing it-and how true he was. Went on to say that having got the ball he would give it to Bobby Moore or our kid-they could play football.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 1:03 pm

I think if you look at any successful football team, or sports team in general, you will have leaders on the pitch and players who lead by example with their attitude and professionalism. It's obviously a huge factor for success in elite sport so I'm surprised you don't get the notion.

Will have to agree to disagree on this then. The best teams have invariably won trophies because they had the best players for a particular competition. Occasionally there has been and will be the underdog triumphing and it's usually quite gratifying to see that happen. There have always been 'leaders' in teams, directing, organising, encouraging but those players have to be on the pitch to get the best out of their teammates who hopefully respond to their demands.

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 4:17 pm

Will have to agree to disagree on this then. The best teams have invariably won trophies because they had the best players for a particular competition. Occasionally there has been and will be the underdog triumphing and it's usually quite gratifying to see that happen. There have always been 'leaders' in teams, directing, organising, encouraging but those players have to be on the pitch to get the best out of their teammates who hopefully respond to their demands.

A better example would be the huge number of teams that have underachieved with hugely talented teams. Where are Spurs at the moment for example or United, or going back a while why did the Galaticos at Madrid always underachieve. They were crying out for a Roy Keane to set the standards.

Dyche used to talk about the dressing room being able to manage itself after he'd been here a while as well.

PSG are a better TEAM now they've got rid of their 'World Class' players.

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 4:17 pm

Will have to agree to disagree on this then. The best teams have invariably won trophies because they had the best players for a particular competition. Occasionally there has been and will be the underdog triumphing and it's usually quite gratifying to see that happen. There have always been 'leaders' in teams, directing, organising, encouraging but those players have to be on the pitch to get the best out of their teammates who hopefully respond to their demands.

That's fine, but it seems like any half-decent football manager would agree with me.

Goliath wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 19, 2025 4:23 pm

why did the Galaticos at Madrid always underachieve. They were crying out for a Roy Keane to set the standards.

Don't know much or anything about the Galaticos but your argument for Roy Keane ' to set the standards' seems a little one dimensional. Anyway, just a difference of opinion on this topic but I'm far from convinced about the effects of what used to be described in the cricketing world as 'a good tourer'.

There are different kinds of leaders too. That Barcelona team around 2010 was perhaps the best of all time at club level. They had the best players sure, but every one of them worked their socks off, off the ball. Every one a great professional. You wouldn't say there were any Keanes in there, but they all set standards. It's hard to argue the best players don't get you a long way, but I think without the right attitude in a group you wouldn't get any sort of longevity. Doesn't take a Roy Keane necessarily, but you need leaders of one sort or another.

Average but if Dunk gets capped Burn probably thought he was worth a call.THB is the U21 cb most thought would step but has struggled in the Saints side. Tarks is the most consistent performer in defence in last 5 seasons but not even considered by selectors.

I'm fairly sure that Tarks said at the time he chose not to sign a new contract at Burnley and spent a season winding it down, that he wanted to be selected for England and had been told playing for Burnley greatly reduced his chances. Mmmmmmm.

Doesn't scream exemplary outstanding but seems to be overall decent & far worse defenders you could name. I've always been moderately impressed when I've watched him