Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:56 am
Anyone seen this? What has saved the keeper from a red card there?
Is handling the ball from a back pass a red card offence ?
Not sure it’s even a yellow card is it ?
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Ipswich backpass
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Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:02 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:03 am
The first time he handled the ball was the save on the goal line. Why was the FK taken on the 6yd line? That was what baffled me.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:08 am
You can't send a keeper off for handling the ball in his own area, and if the free kick was taken on the goal line where would you like the wall to be?
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:09 am
I don't know how anyone could think it should've been a red card
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:15 am
Indirect free kicks to the attacking team for an offence inside the opponents’ goal area (6yd box) are taken from the nearest point on the goal area line which runs parallel to the goal lineTricky Trevor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:03 amThe first time he handled the ball was the save on the goal line. Why was the FK taken on the 6yd line? That was what baffled me.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:15 am
I actually thought the keeper could make a save just not gather the ball. Seems mad to me that a keeper is penalised with a FK for saving a goalbound effort whether it was a backpass or not.
You live and learn!
Good job I wasn’t reffing because it’d have been a corner!
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:16 am
Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I'm sure I read somewhere that the six yard line is the furthest forwardTricky Trevor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:03 amThe first time he handled the ball was the save on the goal line. Why was the FK taken on the 6yd line? That was what baffled me.
a free kick can be taken in those circumstances.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:17 am
If it happens within the 6 yard box, the free kick is taken from the edge of the 6 yard boxTricky Trevor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:03 amThe first time he handled the ball was the save on the goal line. Why was the FK taken on the 6yd line? That was what baffled me.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:19 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:21 am
The laws of the gamePremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:56 amAnyone seen this? What has saved the keeper from a red card there?
Keepers are exempt from the handball/ preventing a goal rule
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:24 am
Under the laws I'm not sure it is a red card, but I think it's reasonable to question the laws.
The keeper can use his hands, except for outside the area or from a backpass. So under those circumstances the keeper has no privileges over an outfield player.
If a defender accidentally handles the ball it's a handball and sometimes a yellow card. Where there is deliberate foul play (eh a defender diving to stop a ball on the line, or even a keeper doing the same outside the area) it would be deemed a red card offence. So why in this circumstance only a yellow?
Wolves were denied a goal and given a free kick that was almost impossible to score from and Ipswich received no meaningful penalty for deliberate foul play. That cant be the correct outcome, surely.
The keeper can use his hands, except for outside the area or from a backpass. So under those circumstances the keeper has no privileges over an outfield player.
If a defender accidentally handles the ball it's a handball and sometimes a yellow card. Where there is deliberate foul play (eh a defender diving to stop a ball on the line, or even a keeper doing the same outside the area) it would be deemed a red card offence. So why in this circumstance only a yellow?
Wolves were denied a goal and given a free kick that was almost impossible to score from and Ipswich received no meaningful penalty for deliberate foul play. That cant be the correct outcome, surely.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:25 am
It is differentPremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:19 amAny offence that directly prevents a goal should be a red card. Not sure how anyone could think it shouldn’t be a red card?? No different to a player handling a ball on the line deliberately.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:27 am
I’ll accept that the laws were applied correctly but my god, this incident should prompt a review of those laws.Roosterbooster wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:21 amThe laws of the game
Keepers are exempt from the handball/ preventing a goal rule
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:27 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:28 am
See above - Laws of the Game
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:29 am
Spot on.Bacchus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:24 amUnder the laws I'm not sure it is a red card, but I think it's reasonable to question the laws.
The keeper can use his hands, except for outside the area or from a backpass. So under those circumstances the keeper has no privileges over an outfield player.
If a defender accidentally handles the ball it's a handball and sometimes a yellow card. Where there is deliberate foul play (eh a defender diving to stop a ball on the line, or even a keeper doing the same outside the area) it would be deemed a red card offence. So why in this circumstance only a yellow?
Wolves were denied a goal and given a free kick that was almost impossible to score from and Ipswich received no meaningful penalty for deliberate foul play. That cant be the correct outcome, surely.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:33 am
Do you think that stopping a back pass from going in the net is such an egregious offence that it deserves to be a red card? The makers of the laws don't, which is why it is exempted.Bacchus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:24 amUnder the laws I'm not sure it is a red card, but I think it's reasonable to question the laws.
The keeper can use his hands, except for outside the area or from a backpass. So under those circumstances the keeper has no privileges over an outfield player.
If a defender accidentally handles the ball it's a handball and sometimes a yellow card. Where there is deliberate foul play (eh a defender diving to stop a ball on the line, or even a keeper doing the same outside the area) it would be deemed a red card offence. So why in this circumstance only a yellow?
Wolves were denied a goal and given a free kick that was almost impossible to score from and Ipswich received no meaningful penalty for deliberate foul play. That cant be the correct outcome, surely.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:35 am
It's silly that a free kick is given for this. The backpass rule is to prevent timewasting, penalising a goalkeeper for stopping a goal is stupid.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:35 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:36 am
Why on earth would anyone think it'd be reasonable to send off the keeper
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:36 am
YesPremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:35 amYes I think we’ve established the rules. Are they correct though?
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:41 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:47 am
It's hard to bring anything new to the table when the goalkeeper just did his jobPremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:41 amSee above posts… Come on mate, if you’re going to contribute at least bring something worthwhile to the table
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:58 am
We once had a free kick like that at Bradford City,think Leigh Palin took it,can't remember if he scored
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:02 am
It’s not a red card simply because those are the current rules of the game.
The rule has been in for many years but I cannot remember an incident like this happening and it does make you think whether the rule should be changed to take into account incidents like this.
However, it could open up a bit too much subjectivity as you would not want to penalise a goalkeeper too harshly for just using his hands to pick up back pass. The grey areas could then materialise anywhere between a simple back pass and an incident like yesterday.
Given incidents like yesterday rarely happen I doubt it’s priority for reviewing the rules. There are a lot more rule changes I would bring in before this one that have been ruining the game for a while.
The rule has been in for many years but I cannot remember an incident like this happening and it does make you think whether the rule should be changed to take into account incidents like this.
However, it could open up a bit too much subjectivity as you would not want to penalise a goalkeeper too harshly for just using his hands to pick up back pass. The grey areas could then materialise anywhere between a simple back pass and an incident like yesterday.
Given incidents like yesterday rarely happen I doubt it’s priority for reviewing the rules. There are a lot more rule changes I would bring in before this one that have been ruining the game for a while.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:12 am
I thought it was just Coventry fans with mind-bending interpretations of the laws of the game
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:15 am
But the keeper isn't allowed to use their hands from a back pass any more than an outfield player is. That's the clear inconsistency.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:26 am
Don’t know about the laws of the game (I’m thinking of becoming a ref) however it was interesting listening to the half time pundits on Aussie TV, Ian Wright it was , plus the commentators, they were saying that Wolves didn’t really get any advantage from the free kick. Ipswich were able to put their entire team on the line and the free kick is a few yards away which inevitably means that the ball would be blocked. One solution offered would be for the free kick to be taken 10 yards from the line.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:34 am
The pundits I’ve heard discussing the incident are all saying red, or at least something more severe than the indirect free kick. Certainly and interesting one although it’s clearly edge-case.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:36 am
I remember in the early 70’s when we brought in Tony Waiters who had been out of the game for a few years. It was the first season of the backpass rule but he obviously wasn’t aware of it as he simply picked up the first backpass he received. 
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:40 am
Backpass rule came in for the 1992/93 season.ClaretCliff wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:36 amI remember in the early 70’s when we brought in Tony Waiters who had been out of the game for a few years. It was the first season of the backpass rule but he obviously wasn’t aware of it as he simply picked up the first backpass he received.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:51 am
Maybe it should be if the handling of the ball is a direct free kick rather than in-direct.
If it prevents a goal then it’s a penalty. If not then direct free kick from where the offence took place
If it prevents a goal then it’s a penalty. If not then direct free kick from where the offence took place
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:54 am
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:59 am
Yes I know that
But what I mean is if the back pass is on target and the keeper handles it preventing a goal, then penalty seems more fair on the attacking team than current situation
If it’s off target then, penalising it with a penalty seems harsh as it’s not directly prevented a goal, which seems more fair on the defending team.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:18 pm
Reading Law 12 again! and the ref has followed the law quite correctly, whether the law is correct in this situation is a different matter...
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:21 pm
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:54 pm
Burnley demonstrated how to score on of these in the box free kicks a few years back. Rather than blast it at an advancing wall Paul Cook played the ball out to Glen Little close to the corner of the six yard box and he just slotted it in the gap left by the defenders charging towards Paul Cook.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:56 pm
At Coventry of all places!martin_p wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:54 pmBurnley demonstrated how to score on of these in the box free kicks a few years back. Rather than blast it at an advancing wall Paul Cook played the ball out to Glen Little close to the corner of the six yard box and he just slotted it in the gap left by the defenders charging towards Paul Cook.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:58 pm
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:31 pm
I remember it well.martin_p wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:54 pmBurnley demonstrated how to score on of these in the box free kicks a few years back. Rather than blast it at an advancing wall Paul Cook played the ball out to Glen Little close to the corner of the six yard box and he just slotted it in the gap left by the defenders charging towards Paul Cook.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:53 pm
The sanction for the goalkeeper gathering the ball with the hands is an INDIRECT free kick. Indirect free-kicks are not the same as a penalty as you cannot score directly from one. So not a penalty, not a red card, possibly a yellow for ungentlemanly conduct, but even that could be seen as being a bit harsh without a previous misconduct.PremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:19 amAny offence that directly prevents a goal should be a red card. Not sure how anyone could think it shouldn’t be a red card?? No different to a player handling a ball on the line deliberately.
If the keeper had just knocked the ball away with his hands it would have needed no sanction by the referee as any goalkeeper may touch the ball with their hands within the penalty area.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2025 9:56 pm
I was there that day.martin_p wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:54 pmBurnley demonstrated how to score on of these in the box free kicks a few years back. Rather than blast it at an advancing wall Paul Cook played the ball out to Glen Little close to the corner of the six yard box and he just slotted it in the gap left by the defenders charging towards Paul Cook.
I think at that time they had the rule in force about advancing the ball ten yards for dissent or whatever.
The ref made a balls up by advancing the ball into the box rather than stopping at the edge of the box, which was the rule.
At least that's how I remember it.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 1:31 am
Had one at Coventry. Passed towards the right of the area and Glen Little blasted it into the roof of the netLes Lawrence wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:58 amWe once had a free kick like that at Bradford City,think Leigh Palin took it,can't remember if he scored
. Can't understand why they would try and shoot straight on with all those players on the line.Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:16 am
I have heard a story about Tony Waiters missing a new law as well. Was it steps taken with the ball or something like that?ClaretCliff wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 12:21 pmThat’s my memory playing tricks then. I’m sure Waiters did something unexpected due to a rule change.
Re: Ipswich backpass
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2025 12:21 pm
Thanks - I’m not going completely mad then.clarets1978 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 11:16 amI have heard a story about Tony Waiters missing a new law as well. Was it steps taken with the ball or something like that?
