Is there a youngish centre back out there who can dominate aerial challenges ( a Jake Cooper 'type') who is also a talented footballer, anywhere in Europe?

At the moment, our 2/3 talented centre backs, don't win enough aerial challenges in either box. In open play, we seem to manage, but at set pieces we currently feed on scraps.

Was surprised to see that Cooper is 30.

I'm hoping that the leagues in Italy, Spain, Germany or France might have a talent available in the summer, who would love the challenge of the Premier League. There will be talents available, just ask Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton or Fulham.

I'm fully aware of how brilliantly we have managed this season by the way. I'm just thinking that the Premier League is a step up and better to address any potential weak/weaker areas, that might get targeted next season, as we look at our recruitment targets.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:16 pm

I'm fully aware of how brilliantly we have managed this season by the way. I'm just thinking that the Premier League is a step up and better to address any potential weak/weaker areas, that might get targeted next season, as we look at our recruitment targets.

There was a post I saw on instagam earlier from a supposed scout saying Burnley have a young lad around 16 who mixes modern ball playing attributes with the old fashioned defensive values. Can't find the post again now so not got a name but it sounded like he's highly rated. I'm guessing not for next season though

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:05 pm

Is there a youngish centre back out there who can dominate aerial challenges ( a Jake Cooper 'type') who is also a talented footballer, anywhere in Europe?

At the moment, our 2/3 talented centre backs, don't win enough aerial challenges in either box. In open play, we seem to manage, but at set pieces we currently feed on scraps.

Was surprised to see that Cooper is 30.

I'm hoping that the leagues in Italy, Spain, Germany or France might have a talent available in the summer, who would love the challenge of the Premier League. There will be talents available, just ask Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton or Fulham.

We've got the best set piece defensive record in the division. Conceding only 5, and 2 of those against Norwich. It's a weakness attacking set pieces, but I don't think there's any issues with aerial dominance defending them.

ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:27 pm

We've got the best set piece defensive record in the division. Conceding only 5, and 2 of those against Norwich. It's a weakness attacking set pieces, but I don't think there's any issues with aerial dominance defending them.

How many set pieces do we have to defend though? We will give away far more corners next season if we are to get promoted, just from having less dominance/possession in games.

I wouldn't be surprised if we play a back three in the PL, with a towering lad in the middle of CJ and Esteve.

I'm not sure you will find any young players who want to head the ball anymore.

Kids don't train it and they know all the dangers.

I tend to defend players when they are unfairly attacked or abused on here as I believe we should support them, especially when they are struggling or finding games difficult.

When things are going really well I tend to look at which part of their game can be improved, as we should always look to improve, especially from a position of strength.

I love the footballing brains of CJ, Steve and Bashir and I hope they are working on this side of the game in training, but perhaps not, as players might be consciously trying to reduce how often they head the ball, and I can accept that.

Dara O'Shea had a decent record of winning headers and scoring.

Have folk forgot about Jordan (Becken) Beyer who's back in training.

I might have a false memory here, but I seem to remember him being reasonably competent with his head at the back and with his feet coming out from the back too.

Hector Kyprianou at Peterborough has impressed when I've seen him - 2 or 3 times now - either in midfield or as a centre back.

Only 22 Cypriot international (yes I know!) fit as and doesn't shirk a tackle, decent in the air too. Watford reportedly interested in him but he is better than that. Definitely worth a punt and if SP didn't fancy him at centre back he'd slot nicely in midfield.

Scored a beauty at Wembley at the weekend.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:47 pm

Dara O'Shea had a decent record of winning headers and scoring.

I was going to say the same, he's got to be one of the best at attacking headers in the opposition box, and that's in the Prem.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:16 pm

I'm fully aware of how brilliantly we have managed this season by the way. I'm just thinking that the Premier League is a step up and better to address any potential weak/weaker areas, that might get targeted next season, as we look at our recruitment targets.

How many aerially dominant strikers/forwards are there in the PL?

I’d suggest there are things to deal with that are way above this perceived issue as far as priorities for next season are concerned…

Goliath wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:20 pm

There was a post I saw on instagam earlier from a supposed scout saying Burnley have a young lad around 16 who mixes modern ball playing attributes with the old fashioned defensive values. Can't find the post again now so not got a name but it sounded like he's highly rated. I'm guessing not for next season though

Luca? Hes only a really young lad, also not huge, looks a decent prospect but i think the video was created by his agents and im not even sure if hes been released.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:13 pm

How many aerially dominant strikers/forwards are there in the PL?

I’d suggest there are things to deal with that are way above this perceived issue as far as priorities for next season are concerned…

True, but there are plenty of dominant cbs. Just as crucial would be that to stand any chance of staying up we will have a better goal threat from set-pieces. So if we go up, a big cb is vital imo, as part of a back 3.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:13 pm

How many aerially dominant strikers/forwards are there in the PL?

I’d suggest there are things to deal with that are way above this perceived issue as far as priorities for next season are concerned…

I think you're forgetting how vulnerable we were at set pieces last time in the PL.

aclaretinstevenage wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:53 pm

Hector Kyprianou at Peterborough has impressed when I've seen him - 2 or 3 times now - either in midfield or as a centre back.

Only 22 Cypriot international (yes I know!) fit as and doesn't shirk a tackle, decent in the air too. Watford reportedly interested in him but he is better than that. Definitely worth a punt and if SP didn't fancy him at centre back he'd slot nicely in midfield.

Scored a beauty at Wembley at the weekend.

Don’t Peterborough have the worst defensive record in the EFL?

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:32 pm

How many set pieces do we have to defend though? We will give away far more corners next season if we are to get promoted, just from having less dominance/possession in games.

I wouldn't be surprised if we play a back three in the PL, with a towering lad in the middle of CJ and Esteve.

it's a fair question. I can only find corners, and we've had 160 of those to defend (only Leeds less). The most to defend is Oxford with 285. Most teams are within 50% of our number though, and from number of goals conceded from set pieces only West Brom and Sunderland are within 50% of us. It's figures on the back of a fag packet analysis, but stands up to the argument that we're not weak or even average, on defending set pieces.

From an eye ball test point of view we've stood up well to aerial bombardments from the likes of Derby, Leeds, Blackburn, etc when under the cosh for spells and kept clean sheets in those games. Plus Coventry who did score, but early before they started flinging balls into the box.

ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:22 pm

it's a fair question. I can only find corners, and we've had 160 of those to defend (only Leeds less). The most to defend is Oxford with 285. Most teams are within 50% of our number though, and from number of goals conceded from set pieces only West Brom and Sunderland are within 50% of us. It's figures on the back of a fag packet analysis, but stands up to the argument that we're not weak or even average, on defending set pieces.

From an eye ball test point of view we've stood up well to aerial bombardments from the likes of Derby, Leeds, Blackburn, etc when under the cosh for spells and kept clean sheets in those games. Plus Coventry who did score, but early before they started flinging balls into the box.

Not so sure if it linearly extrapolates out and as you say, (me included here) fag packet analysis.

I do think it's our only vulnerability. Salech at Cardiff caused Esteve pretty much the only trouble that he's had all season.

You're right that we've stood up well to a lot of the aerial bombardment, my only concern is that the level of physicality at set pieces in the PL is just at another level.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

Don’t Peterborough have the worst defensive record in the EFL?

As a unit they might but that doesn't say this boy isn't any good.

Harry Maguire will be available. He ticks all your boxes DC except Youth but he replaces that with experience. Lol

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:21 pm

I think you're forgetting how vulnerable we were at set pieces last time in the PL.

What was the main reason for that?

In my opinion, it’s because we spent next to no time working on defensive responsibilities and formations/roles, by one of the best ever PL defenders. Yep, bizarre…

Definitely need a dominant cb. Egan-Riley might even go to right back or at least right centre back in a 3. Tanganga at Millwall interests me, big physical lad with a sprinkle of PL and ‘big arena’ experience, he’s been great for Millwall. Humphreys adds good height too from left back.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:48 pm

Have folk forgot about Jordan (Becken) Beyer who's back in training.

I might have a false memory here, but I seem to remember him being reasonably competent with his head at the back and with his feet coming out from the back too.

Bottom 25% in the Championship (v other cb’s) for % of headers won during our promotion.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:47 pm

Dara O'Shea had a decent record of winning headers and scoring.

Maybe but I wouldn’t want him back, not good enough.

beddie wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:07 pm

Maybe but I wouldn’t want him back, not good enough.

His main strengths are his aerial ability and he is quite quick for a cb. Think he could sit between CJ and Steve.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:05 pm

Is there a youngish centre back out there who can dominate aerial challenges ( a Jake Cooper 'type') who is also a talented footballer, anywhere in Europe?

At the moment, our 2/3 talented centre backs, don't win enough aerial challenges in either box. In open play, we seem to manage, but at set pieces we currently feed on scraps.

Was surprised to see that Cooper is 30.

I'm hoping that the leagues in Italy, Spain, Germany or France might have a talent available in the summer, who would love the challenge of the Premier League. There will be talents available, just ask Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton or Fulham.

Let’s get there first - it’s odds on, I get it, but one step, or one game, at a time

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:46 pm

What was the main reason for that?

In my opinion, it’s because we spent next to no time working on defensive responsibilities and formations/roles, by one of the best ever PL defenders. Yep, bizarre…

Same set piece coach...

Defensively, yeah, we were a shambles, I specifically mean at set pieces. Everton & Arsenal spring to mind

If we go up, I agree we’d need to look at another CB, I’d ideally like one with a lot of PL experience to slot in alongside what is a very talented but very young backline.

I’m just putting a name out here with no idea on wages and his club situation, but someone like Adam Webster at Brighton who might be on the fringes of his club but could still offer lots for a newly promoted team.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:52 pm

If we go up, I agree we’d need to look at another CB, I’d ideally like one with a lot of PL experience to slot in alongside what is a very talented but very young backline.

I’m just putting a name out here with no idea on wages and his club situation, but someone like Adam Webster at Brighton who might be on the fringes of his club but could still offer lots for a newly promoted team.

Webster is a decent shout, Brighton also signed a centre half in January from Derby so depending on his contract someone who maybe available

Lets say we go up AND keep CJ and Esteve. I think with Humphreys coming back in at left back, there's an argument that bring in a 6 foot right back, and that gives you plenty of height at the back. I have said for the last few months that there's an issue (albeit minor) that neither of our excellent centre backs seem to be good at attacking set pieces in terms of scoring goals. IF we are in the PL next season, that is something that has to change and I'd hope it's something Parker and the coaches are already working on with them.

If the main concern is set pieces (and I'm not sure it is) then it doesn't need to be a centre back. Chris Wood got his head on a lot of set pieces for instance.

Being a centre half who is dominant in the air doesn't always lead to scoring set piece goals either. Tarkowski has always had a poor goalscoring record for instance.

ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 2:22 pm

it's a fair question. I can only find corners, and we've had 160 of those to defend (only Leeds less). The most to defend is Oxford with 285. Most teams are within 50% of our number though, and from number of goals conceded from set pieces only West Brom and Sunderland are within 50% of us. It's figures on the back of a fag packet analysis, but stands up to the argument that we're not weak or even average, on defending set pieces.

From an eye ball test point of view we've stood up well to aerial bombardments from the likes of Derby, Leeds, Blackburn, etc when under the cosh for spells and kept clean sheets in those games. Plus Coventry who did score, but early before they started flinging balls into the box.

I thought we really struggled to deal with it at Derby, Portsmouth and Coventry to some extent. But not many PL teams play that way so it'd be less of an issue in open play.
Set pieces may be different, we don't really have that player who seems to just attract the ball in those situations. I think Michael Keane would be a great addition with that being one of the reasons.

There are players out there. It’s just getting the better ones to sign for us. If we find them you can be sure the rest of the PL know of them.
Huijsen at B’mouth,19yo and a young French lad, 19yo, I saw last week(could have come on for PSG, first leg) are outstanding with big futures.

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:02 pm

Definitely need a dominant cb. Egan-Riley might even go to right back or at least right centre back in a 3. Tanganga at Millwall interests me, big physical lad with a sprinkle of PL and ‘big arena’ experience, he’s been great for Millwall. Humphreys adds good height too from left back.

Tanganga is a very good shout. One of those players that has gone under the radar in the Championship. The only downside although heis a big physical lad, he’s only 6ft,same as CJR.

MrTopTier wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:02 pm

Tanganga is a very good shout. One of those players that has gone under the radar in the Championship. The only downside although heis a big physical lad, he’s only 6ft,same as CJR.

TBF Ben Mee is 5ft11 and he was as good as anyone in the air.

Tanganga is an interesting shout, and although I'm not Worrall's biggest fan, playing in the middle of a 3 with a slightly lower defensive line may suit him far more - for games in which we will be expected to be up against it.

beddie wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:07 pm

Maybe but I wouldn’t want him back, not good enough.

I find this comment incredible.
He was brilliant.
I would welcome him back, but I have no idea what the conditions were like when he left, I don't think they were too positive!

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:13 pm

TBF Ben Mee is 5ft11 and he was as good as anyone in the air.

Tanganga is an interesting shout, and although I'm not Worrall's biggest fan, playing in the middle of a 3 with a slightly lower defensive line may suit him far more - for games in which we will be expected to be up against it.

Tanganga was also one of the players in the Spurs Academy when Scott did his badges.

Darnhill Claret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:05 pm

Is there a youngish centre back out there who can dominate aerial challenges ( a Jake Cooper 'type') who is also a talented footballer, anywhere in Europe?

At the moment, our 2/3 talented centre backs, don't win enough aerial challenges in either box. In open play, we seem to manage, but at set pieces we currently feed on scraps.
!

Tarkowski

RVclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:02 pm

Definitely need a dominant cb. Egan-Riley might even go to right back or at least right centre back in a 3. Tanganga at Millwall interests me, big physical lad with a sprinkle of PL and ‘big arena’ experience, he’s been great for Millwall. Humphreys adds good height too from left back.

Thoughts on Ballard?

I know he’s missed a lot of football this season due to injury. But he’s a player I thought fits the physical mould we might be interested in

Modern CBs ain't coached that way, hence why there's a lack of them.

A first step might be to get rid of our set piece coach.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 3:44 pm

Same set piece coach...

Defensively, yeah, we were a shambles, I specifically mean at set pieces. Everton & Arsenal spring to mind

When reading the above, I was thinking “when were we a shambles at defending set pieces”?

Those are the only two matches I could think of. Against two very good teams at set pieces. Arsenal were famed for them that season and Everton of course had Dwight’s near-perfect delivery.

We may have conceded others from set pieces but I don’t remember too many. For me, defending them was not the issue - we’ll always concede a few at that level as every team does - but we were terrible attacking them.

We MUST get better at that or we might as well concede attacking free kicks and corners to the opposition.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 7:53 am

When reading the above, I was thinking “when were we a shambles at defending set pieces”?

Those are the only two matches I could think of. Against two very good teams at set pieces. Arsenal were famed for them that season and Everton of course had Dwight’s near-perfect delivery.

We may have conceded others from set pieces but I don’t remember too many. For me, defending them was not the issue - we’ll always concede a few at that level as every team does - but we were terrible attacking them.

We MUST get better at that or we might as well concede attacking free kicks and corners to the opposition.

"Vincent Kompany's Burnley were been pretty rubbish at everything after returning to the top flight and that includes set pieces.

The Clarets have been dismal in both boxes when it comes to set pieces, netting just five times and conceding on 16 occasions. "

https://www.90min.com/posts/premier-lea ... hatgpt.com

Just stumbled across this thread. Wtf? We’ve conceded 13 goals all season in a division where the ball is in the air a lot more. We’ve played against teams with lumps up front and big cbs coming up for set pieces. We really haven’t done that badly

Dara O'Shea was good at set pieces for us but I don't think he's done that well for the Tractor Boys in the Prem.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 10:42 am

"Vincent Kompany's Burnley were been pretty rubbish at everything after returning to the top flight and that includes set pieces.

The Clarets have been dismal in both boxes when it comes to set pieces, netting just five times and conceding on 16 occasions. "

https://www.90min.com/posts/premier-lea ... hatgpt.com

I’m struggling to remember 16 goals conceded from set plays to be honest. Certainly directly from set plays.

Either way, we were without a doubt better after January and signing Esteve. I can’t remember many at all conceded after he came in and I think Assignon helped a bit too.

I am hoping what Pace meant when he said we have a better idea now on the profile of player needed for the premier league, is that height and physicality element.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 11:00 am

I’m struggling to remember 16 goals conceded from set plays to be honest. Certainly directly from set plays.

Either way, we were without a doubt better after January and signing Esteve. I can’t remember many at all conceded after he came in and I think Assignon helped a bit too.

I am hoping what Pace meant when he said we have a better idea now on the profile of player needed for the premier league, is that height and physicality element.

Just because you're struggling to remember doesn't mean it didn't happen! That's the whole point of statistics like this; the mind tricks us!

Worth noting that Luton scored 14 goals from set pieces and nearly stayed up from a much worse position/squad entering the league than we had.

We had an 11-goal deficit from set pieces from our last campaign in the PL. Even if that was a 5-goal deficit, that could be the difference between another 3-12 points. They are that important.

Luka Vušković.

Still only 18. Spurs signed him from Hajduk Split for £12m in Jan 2024. 6'4".

Also scores shedloads of goals:

3 in 14 in Poland when on loan last season
7 in 25 for Westerlo in Belgium this season.

Question is whether Spurs decide to add him to their squad or not.

CoolClaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 11:22 am

Just because you're struggling to remember doesn't mean it didn't happen! That's the whole point of statistics like this; the mind tricks us!

Worth noting that Luton scored 14 goals from set pieces and nearly stayed up from a much worse position/squad entering the league than we had.

We had an 11-goal deficit from set pieces from our last campaign in the PL. Even if that was a 5-goal deficit, that could be the difference between another 3-12 points. They are that important.

Wasn’t suggesting it didn’t happen, but imagine if those stats were split between first and second half of the season, they’d look much better in the second half.

Think of all the teams to get promoted in the last two seasons, Luton proved you need massive lads first and foremost. I don’t think you need the best set piece coach when you have those raw materials.

Kompany went for technical ability and it didn’t work. Hope if we go up we’ll prioritise physicality and introduce technical ability if and when we become established. Thats the only way in the short term.