Well chuffed with today and I thought Flemming was excellent on the whole. But - and I apologise for starting a negative thread after a huge win - but I hope Parker has a word with him about him going down holding his face. Hate to see that.

He's practicing for next season

Fretters wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:19 pm

Well chuffed with today and I thought Flemming was excellent on the whole. But - and I apologise for starting a negative thread after a huge win - but I hope Parker has a word with him about him going down holding his face. Hate to see that.

He's not the only player we have who does that.

It's basically just accepted these days that getting an opponent booked or sent off is part of the game.

On the continent, they call it clever play and now we've just followed suit.

Time will tell whether fans get bored with it.

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:20 pm

He's practicing for next season

I've got to hand it to you, Viva.

You told me that Flemming would score goals!

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:23 pm

He's not the only player we have who does that.

It's basically just accepted these days that getting an opponent booked or sent off is part of the game.

On the continent, they call it clever play and now we've just followed suit.

Time will tell whether fans get bored with it.

I’m bored with it.

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:24 pm

I’m bored with it.

I suspect you're not alone in that.

It went for us today, but there'd be real anger if we'd had two players sent off for those (second) offences.

Any neutral watching that today would have thought it was a right farce!

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:27 pm

I suspect you're not alone in that.

It went for us today, but there'd be real anger if we'd had two players sent off for those (second) offences.

Any neutral watching that today would have thought it was a right farce!

I agree with you about the gamesmanship in general but those were both as clear (second) yellows as you’re ever likely to see, imo. Cleverley must have been tearing his hair out at the stupidity of both.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:27 pm

It went for us today, but there'd be real anger if we'd had two players sent off for those (second) offences.

I dont agree at all with that. Both were 2nd yellows at best
Sissoko barged into Flemming with excess force - blatant yellow
Kayembe threw his elbow into the neck - could have been a straight red

The only anger I'd have would be at our players if they were that stupid

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:29 pm

I agree with you about the gamesmanship in general but those were both as clear (second) yellows as you’re ever likely to see, imo. Cleverley must have been tearing his hair out at the stupidity of both.

Probably, but was the reaction from the Watford player any more severe than what Flemming did?

If the boot had been on the other foot, we'd have been raging.

Just for clarification as well. I was watching with a Blackburn fan. And he is in total agreement that both were fair reds

I was seriously worried Flemming would be sent off. He's got a bit of Barnsey's DNA in him.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:31 pm

Was the reaction from the Watford player any more severe than what Flemming did?

Yes
By a huge margin
Several degrees in fact

They aren't even comparable
I'd go so far as saying Flemming's yellow was harsh (or even completely incorrect)
If Sissoko hadn't reacted then Flemming wouldn't have been booked

ecc wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:33 pm

I was seriously worried Flemming would be sent off. He's got a bit of Barnsey's DNA in him.

On another day and with a different ref he certainly could have been.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:24 pm

I've got to hand it to you, Viva.

You told me that Flemming would score goals!

He's done ok mate More to come from him I hope !

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:31 pm

Probably, but was the reaction from the Watford player any more severe than what Flemming did?

If the boot had been on the other foot, we'd have been raging.

Both 2nd yellows were the 2 easiest decisions that the ref had to make all day.

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:34 pm

Yes
By a huge margin
Several degrees in fact

They aren't even comparable
I'd go so far as saying Flemming's yellow was harsh (or even completely incorrect)
If Sissoko hadn't reacted then Flemming wouldn't have been booked

Eh? I thought Flemming was booked for the initial "shove" which made Sissoko react the way he did. Flemming then went down holding his face.

Poor from both players really.

Not sure if some of the posters on this thread are parody accounts.

Watford lost the plot, we didn't. The 2nd sending off was a yellow card every day off the week and then Louza who was in the refs face most of the game starts sarcastically applauding. What does he expect.

If burnley players behaved like some Watford players posters would be on here stating they'd never want to see them in a Burnley shirt again.

Burnley kept their heads, Watford didn't. Horrible side, even their manager looked embarrassed.

If a team like Burnley turned up at Turf Moor doing all those antics, we'd be going absolutely mad on the terraces.

These so called "dark arts" are as much a part of football now as kicking and heading the thing, sadly. Scott Parker, or someone on his staff, is very good at coaching the subtlety of it though so 9 times out of 10 it winds up the opposition and we look innocent.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:36 pm

Eh? I thought Flemming was booked for the initial "shove" which made Sissoko react the way he did. Flemming then went down holding his face.

Poor from both players really.

Flemings ‘shove’ was no more than you see between players at every corner and they’re rarely fouls never mind bookings.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:39 pm

Flemings ‘shove’ was no more than you see between players at every corner and they’re rarely fouls never mind bookings.

Then you'd have to say the same about Sissoko's reaction. Flemming going down holding his face made the ref's mind up for him.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:39 pm

If a team like Burnley turned up at Turf Moor doing all those antics, we'd be going absolutely mad on the terraces.

These so called "dark arts" are as much a part of football now as kicking and heading the thing, sadly. Scott Parker, or someone on his staff, is very good at coaching the subtlety of it though so 9 times out of 10 it winds up the opposition and we look innocent.

You put it much better than I did.

Thanks.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:41 pm

Then you'd have to say the same about Sissoko's reaction. Flemming going down holding his face made the ref's mind up for him.

Sissoko’s reaction was ten times worse than the initial push.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:36 pm

Eh? I thought Flemming was booked for the initial "shove" which made Sissoko react the way he did. Flemming then went down holding his face.

Poor from both players really.

He was booked for the "shove". But it was so minimal that I doubt anything would have come of it had Sissoko just stayed in his half after the "shove"

Let's be honest. It was a prod. Exactly the same as you see go completely unpunished at corners every time

The ref felt obliged to caution Flemming once he'd sent Sissoko off

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:27 pm

It went for us today, but there'd be real anger if we'd had two players sent off for those (second) offences.

Sissokos second offence was the shove. He’d been booked earlier for talking back.
As the senior player for them he should have known better.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:43 pm

Sissoko’s reaction was ten times worse than the initial push.

Was it? Or did it just look that way because of the way Flemming hit the deck?

If he'd stayed on his feet then I doubt either player would have even been booked.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:47 pm

Was it? Or did it just look that way because of the way Flemming hit the deck?

If he'd stayed on his feet then I doubt either player would have even been booked.

Yes, it absolutely was. He’d no chance of staying on his feet.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:41 pm

Then you'd have to say the same about Sissoko's reaction. Flemming going down holding his face made the ref's mind up for him.

I think you need to watch it back
It's not far off what Maatsen was sent off for v Blackpool in 2022

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:47 pm

Sissokos second offence was the shove. He’d been booked earlier for talking back.
As the senior player for them he should have known better.

Completely agree he should have known better, but Flemming hitting the deck gave the ref a decision to make imo.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:48 pm

Yes, it absolutely was. He’d no chance of staying on his feet.

Funny how players manage to stay upright when about four team mates jump on their back after scoring, but they seem incapable of doing when an opponent gives them a shove.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:49 pm

Completely agree he should have known better, but Flemming hitting the deck gave the ref a decision to make imo.

He the deck because he was pushed over It's a yellow regardless of Flemings reaction?

On a similar note , a Watford defender in the first few minutes of the game was trying to shield the ball out for a goal kick. Edwards I think tried to get to the ball before it went out and the defender changed his tack to clearly barge/shove Edwards.Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.

Claret-in-cleveleys wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:52 pm

He the deck because he was pushed over It's a yellow regardless of Flemings reaction?

if you say so, but I think it's a case of clever play or gamesmanship... depending which way you look at it.

As others have said, fans may get bored of it sooner or later (unless it goes for THEIR team like it did for us today!)

Guller Bull wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:53 pm

On a similar note , a Watford defender in the first few minutes of the game was trying to shield the ball out for a goal kick. Edwards I think tried to get to the ball before it went out and the defender changed his tack to clearly barge/shove Edwards.Anywhere else on the pitch it’s a foul.

Yes. The strangest law in football that one, as the defender usually gets the decision.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:51 pm

Funny how players manage to stay upright when about four team mates jump on their back after scoring, but they seem incapable of doing when an opponent gives them a shove.

There’s a massive difference between something you’re expecting and something you’re not.

Flemming has become a much more effective centre forward since Barnes returned to the club. Could be a coincidence but I reckon Ash has taught him some of the dark arts, and he's starting to look a potential Premier League forward now.

Really dont understand your point, their player got a yellow for the push as did Flemming? If their player had received a straight red and toy thought that was down to flemmings reaction, fair enough but thats not what happened, was it? He got sent off because of the second yellow.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:59 pm

There’s a massive difference between something you’re expecting and something you’re not.

I hope you don't become embroiled in anything physical then, if that's how you react when someone shoves you.

I'm pretty sure I saw Flemming gesture to his team mates to get in Sissoko's head immediately after he was booked, he must have sensed Sissoko was riled up. He then followed him across the pitch to incite a reaction and Sissoko thankfully obliged.

Claret-in-cleveleys wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:59 pm

Really dont understand your point, their player got a yellow for the push as did Flemming? If their player had received a straight red and toy thought that was down to flemmings reaction, fair enough but thats not what happened, was it? He got sent off because of the second yellow.

I know what he was dismissed for. My point was that it was the reaction that got him booked.

Dark arts and all that, apparently.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:02 pm

I hope you don't become embroiled in anything physical then, if that's how you react when someone shoves you.

If someone shoves me that hard when I’m not expecting it then I’m down, I suggest you take another look at it. Besides, as someone else has mentioned, they both got booked.

Eh? No ot was the push that was the yellow offence. I think you thought he got a straight red for it and now back tracking a bit.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:31 pm

Probably, but was the reaction from the Watford player any more severe than what Flemming did?

If the boot had been on the other foot, we'd have been raging.

I mean, apart from the fact that they both received the same punishment, yes, Sissoko’s shove was miles more severe than Flemming’s nudge.

As others have pointed out, what Flemming did goes unpunished at virtually every corner you see, but if Sissoko shoves someone to the ground two handed like that at a corner, it’s a penalty every time the ref spots it.

Your wider point about Flemming “buying” the yellow is probably a fair one, but that’s just the way the game is, unfortunately.

Claret-in-cleveleys wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:06 pm

Eh? No ot was the push that was the yellow offence. I think you thought he got a straight red for it and now back tracking a bit.

not remotely back tracking. I'm well aware it was a second booking in the eyes of the ref.

My point was that Flemming's reaction got him that second booking.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:08 pm

not remotely back tracking. I'm well aware it was a second booking in the eyes of the ref.

My point was that Flemming's reaction got him that second booking.

No, him pushing a player over two handed, with force, is what got him the booking. It’s a booking every day of the week.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:05 pm

If someone shoves me that hard when I’m not expecting it then I’m down, I suggest you take another look at it. Besides, as someone else has mentioned, they both got booked.

Flemming looks a big, strong athlete to me. I think he could have stayed on his feet if he'd wanted to, but it went for us today, so everyone is happy!

If that's what fans want, then so be it.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:47 pm

Was it? Or did it just look that way because of the way Flemming hit the deck?

If he'd stayed on his feet then I doubt either player would have even been booked.

Flemming was flattened!

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:13 pm

Flemming was flattened!

Yeah. I'm surprised we didn't make a concussion sub

GDK wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:59 pm

Flemming has become a much more effective centre forward since Barnes returned to the club. Could be a coincidence but I reckon Ash has taught him some of the dark arts, and he's starting to look a potential Premier League forward now.

Spot on well done Ashley Barnes

So why did Flemming get booked then? Sissonko didn't go down? Was it because it was a push perhaps?

My take was Flemming was pushing him back to his own side of the half-way line… where he should be prior to kick off. It was designed to wind him up further but he played right into Flemings hands. To say Flemming shouldn’t have gone down is nonsense it was a full blooded double handed push, he’d have struggled to stay on his feet.

And ai am someone who thinks Flemming goes down far too easily, in fact earlier in the game I had commented that at times I think he’d rather win free kicks than beat his man.

Watford tried to rile Burnley in the first half and to a large degree it worked, but they couldn’t take it when Burnley returned the favour second half.