• Millwalls goal

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 11:51 am**

On the game yesterday I was sure there was an offside in the build up to Millwalls goal. Looking at the highlights it looks it to me but can’t be sure as the camera pans to the player after the ball is passed.

Has anyone seen any other footage of the goal?

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:00 pm**

Fair chance it would have been in the prem, but then also a fair chance Ashley's tackle in the build up to our first would have been a foul, not sure he got any of the ball.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:03 pm**

Barnes certainly got the ball and I don't think their goal was offside but haven't seen it back

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:05 pm**

cl40 wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 11:51 am
On the game yesterday I was sure there was an offside in the build up to Millwalls goal. Looking at the highlights it looks it to me but can’t be sure as the camera pans to the player after the ball is passed.

Has anyone seen any other footage of the goal?

Looked offside in the build up to me

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:12 pm**

taio wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:03 pm
Barnes certainly got the ball and I don't think their goal was offside but haven't seen it back

The goal itself wasn’t offside, but one of their players was coming back from and offside position and he was then involved in the build up

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:17 pm**

Was offside and the Barnes goal would have been VAR’d.

That 16 goals conceded is such a shame because a good few of them would have been ruled out with better officials and, you would have to say, VAR. Coventry, WBA and yesterday could all legitimately have been ruled out. We should be sat on the record of 13 conceded.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:30 pm**

alwaysaclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:00 pm
Fair chance it would have been in the prem, but then also a fair chance Ashley's tackle in the build up to our first would have been a foul, not sure he got any of the ball.

Had the Barnes goal been ruled out in the Prem, it would have been overturned by VAR. No foul at all.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:32 pm**

Hibsclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:17 pm
Was offside and the Barnes goal would have been VAR’d.

That 16 goals conceded is such a shame because a good few of them would have been ruled out with better officials and, you would have to say, VAR. Coventry, WBA and yesterday could all legitimately have been ruled out. We should be sat on the record of 13 conceded.

If there was VAR it would've been judged a perfectly good challenge

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:34 pm**

Millwall: May be a hand ball in the build up too

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:36 pm**

Dont know about the offside, but definitely looked like a hand in the face to Pires to win back the ball and initiate their scoring attack.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 12:46 pm**

taio wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:32 pm
If there was VAR it would've been judged a perfectly good challenge

Possibly, it would depend on the officials as we will find out again next season.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:02 pm**

I thought we should have had a FK at the start of their goal. Bext was the offside and their player looks too far ahead to have been onside. Our centre backs aren't that slow!

AshleyBarnes goal assist - pure brilliance and typical Aye Aye. A great way to finish.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:04 pm**

Hibsclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:17 pm
Was offside and the Barnes goal would have been VAR’d.

That 16 goals conceded is such a shame because a good few of them would have been ruled out with better officials and, you would have to say, VAR. Coventry, WBA and yesterday could all legitimately have been ruled out. We should be sat on the record of 13 conceded.

Yes but it's swings and roundabouts because the Rovers and PNE goals at Turf Moor would both have been allowed to stand with VAR.
As has been mentioned numerous times - and generally proved - these things tend to even themselves out over a season, so we can do without VAR.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:05 pm**

I thought it was offside at the time.

I was also amazed that Millwall kept their keeper on. I saw the eyes roll in the back of his head after Barnes clattered him; he didn't look at all well.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:08 pm**

I thought the rovers goal was rulled out for the foul the ref blew for before / as the linesman flagged for offside

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:09 pm**

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 1:04 pm
These things tend to even themselves out over a season

I thought it had generally been shown that actually they don't even themselves out
Most teams would have a few points more, or a few points less
But rarely exactly the same number
It also doesn't account for those all important "6 pointers"

I'm not advocating VAR tho. Not in the slightest

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:31 pm**

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 1:09 pm
I thought it had generally been shown that actually they don't even themselves out
Most teams would have a few points more, or a few points less
But rarely exactly the same number
It also doesn't account for those all important "6 pointers"

I'm not advocating VAR tho. Not in the slightest

I think we might be talking about different things.
I think you are probably referring to published statistics that show that some clubs would get few more points with VAR, and some less, whereas I'm talking about refereeing decisions in general. Broadly speaking the good and the bad even out over a period of time.
As you correctly point out, it can be more significant in a 6 pointer, but VAR don't always get these right anyway.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:39 pm**

Take your C&B specs off and see how lucky Bashley was to not see red and the goal disallowed. Totally out of control thankfully he missed both the ball and the man but if the Millwall lad had jumped instead of being honest we were down to 10.

: IMG_4861.jpeg (286.74 KiB) Viewed 3386 times

More interesting to me is where was Connor Roberts going when Coburn missed the open goal?

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: IMG_4863.jpeg (586.24 KiB) Viewed 3386 times

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 1:40 pm**

Coventry pushing for VAR in the Championship-they wont be the only club I suspect wanting this

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:05 pm**

Barnes didn’t try to tackle their defender, he slid in front of him to block the clearance, which then rebounded to Brownhill

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:10 pm**

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 1:39 pm
Take your C&B specs off and see how lucky Bashley was to not see red and the goal disallowed. Totally out of control thankfully he missed both the ball and the man but if the Millwall lad had jumped instead of being honest we were down to 10.
IMG_4861.jpeg

Just shows how misleading it is when you freeze frame an incident.

Freeze it a split second later and you will probably see that it’s block from Ash’s body even his groin, that wins the tackle, there is no dangerous out of control at all in IMO just a brilliant brave tackle/block

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:16 pm**

Barnes made the first goal through his tenacity. It was never a foul. I can't believe anyone would think he was lucky not to be sent off.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:21 pm**

I thought their goal was onside and I think our equaliser would never have stood in the Prem. All you have to do is look at an Arsenal player in the wrong way and they fall down then get a fk their way.

On a slightly side note: their game yesterday, VAR tried for ages to disallow the Brentford goal for something.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:31 pm**

I was lower JMS and had a good view of the offside pass. I thought Millwalls Handyman had moved a bit too quick as the ball was passed to him imo. Defo offside with VAR I would think.
More surprised at Ivanovich beating CJ to the ball more than anything.Good finishing flick past Trafford.
Probably the best entertaining footy match at Turf Moor this season. Great flowing footy from the Clarets.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 2:50 pm**

alwaysaclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:00 pm
Fair chance it would have been in the prem, but then also a fair chance Ashley's tackle in the build up to our first would have been a foul, not sure he got any of the ball.

I was about to say more or less the same thing about Ashley's tackle.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 3:35 pm**

I saw two tackles in the EPL last week where the man clearly played the ball first but caught his opponent in the follow through which were given as fouls. I think this type of tackle is open to interpretation by the referee on the day as to whether it constitutes "dangerous play" or not. Thankfully the previously much maligned Mr Kitchen allowed play to continue. Thought he did a great job as he kept his cards in his pocket all afternoon until he booked Brownhill for taking his shirt off.

Basically it was Stuart Pearce special.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 3:53 pm**

Let’s face it, Barnes is a thug, always has been. From my perspective behind the goal I thought 100% Red Card. Was amazed he didn’t get one, stunned he didn’t get a yellow and, as for allowing the goal to stand, that’s absolute madness.

Then we have him deliberately clattering our 19 year old 3rd choice keeper. Another Red, and what about your Sideshow Billy rolling around holding his face after being blocked off with an arm across his chest?

Would I want VAR in the Championship though? Never in a million years!

We were saying yesterday if we ever won promotion, we should take 25% of the money and stay where we are. You only have to see the lack of atmosphere in 3 stands yesterday to see what the Premier League money buys. The sooner they start a European Super League the better - the Championship has a better looking fixture list and is more competitive all round.

As for the football, Burnley are miles ahead of our lot and played some great stuff, but we’re getting there and we’ll have our day soon.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 3:59 pm**

There is no way the Barnes tackle isn't a foul, and no way it doesn't overturn our first goal in the Premier league.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 3:59 pm**

Northants Lion wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 3:53 pm
Let’s face it, Barnes is a thug, always has been. From my perspective behind the goal I thought 100% Red Card. Was amazed he didn’t get one, stunned he didn’t get a yellow and, as for allowing the goal to stand, that’s absolute madness.

Then we have him deliberately clattering our 19 year old 3rd choice keeper. Another Red, and what about your Sideshow Billy rolling around holding his face after being blocked off with an arm across his chest?

Would I want VAR in the Championship though? Never in a million years!

We were saying yesterday if we ever won promotion, we should take 25% of the money and stay where we are. You only have to see the lack of atmosphere in 3 stands yesterday to see what the Premier League money buys. The sooner they start a European Super League the better - the Championship has a better looking fixture list and is more competitive all round.

As for the football, Burnley are miles ahead of our lot and played some great stuff, but we’re getting there and we’ll have our day soon.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:03 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 12:30 pm
Had the Barnes goal been ruled out in the Prem, it would have been overturned by VAR. No foul at all.

You are dreaming if you think that stands

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:08 pm**

willsclarets wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:03 pm
You are dreaming if you think that stands

I’m not at all. There is no foul. It’s a perfectly legitimate goal.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:11 pm**

Good to see so many loyal Clarets, so am I, but please take the blinkers off. It’s history now, in the record books. If Millwall had that goal given you would go ballistic.
I’ve taken it back a tad and as you can see he has both feet in the air so is out of control, he is leading with his studs, look at earlier photo, so is endangering an opponent. It doesn’t matter whether he touched neither he could easily have done.
He’s a brave lad for standing his ground, many would have jumped away from Barnes steaming in on them.

: IMG_4864.jpeg (504.25 KiB) Viewed 2679 times

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:13 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:08 pm
I’m not at all. There is no foul. It’s a perfectly legitimate goal.

His studs were up and he wasn't in control of his body/motion. I love Ash and it was typical of his tenacity to get us that goal, but it wasn't legal.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:15 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:08 pm
I’m not at all. There is no foul. It’s a perfectly legitimate goal.

Spot on. No foul. Not endangering the player. The goal correctly stood.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:18 pm**

Ok. I mean who cares we won, but definitely have to agree to disagree on this one!

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:27 pm**

Genuinely bewildered people think it was a red card. Wow.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:32 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:27 pm
Genuinely bewildered people think it was a red card. Wow.

I don't think it was a red at all, but such an easy on for VAR to overturn.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:34 pm**

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 1:04 pm
Yes but it's swings and roundabouts because the Rovers and PNE goals at Turf Moor would both have been allowed to stand with VAR.
As has been mentioned numerous times - and generally proved - these things tend to even themselves out over a season, so we can do without VAR.

We can do without VAR for a whole host of reasons, with "these things tend to even themselves out" being the least of them.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:43 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:27 pm
Genuinely bewildered people think it was a red card. Wow.

Same here.

I wonder if Alex Neil has bemoaned the goal.

I haven't seen that he has.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:49 pm**

willsclarets wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:32 pm
I don't think it was a red at all, but such an easy on for VAR to overturn.

Not a single Millwall player (4 of them right next to it) appealed at all. This is usually a good indication. Sky comms didn’t even mention a potential foul. Your strong view that it would be ‘so easy to overturn’ doesn’t have any evidence other than a (wrong) opinion.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:49 pm**

taio wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:43 pm
Same here.

I wonder if Alex Neil has bemoaned the goal.

I haven't seen that he has.

Agree - can be added to the other ones I mention above.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:50 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:49 pm
Not a single Millwall player (4 of them right next to it) appealed at all. This is usually a good indication. Sky comms didn’t even mention a potential foul. Your strong view that it would be ‘so easy to overturn’ doesn’t have any evidence other than a (wrong) opinion.

Their manager complained to the 4th Official, mind you they were at him all game

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:51 pm**

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:11 pm
Good to see so many loyal Clarets, so am I, but please take the blinkers off. It’s history now, in the record books. If Millwall had that goal given you would go ballistic.
I’ve taken it back a tad and as you can see he has both feet in the air so is out of control, he is leading with his studs, look at earlier photo, so is endangering an opponent. It doesn’t matter whether he touched neither he could easily have done.
He’s a brave lad for standing his ground, many would have jumped away from Barnes steaming in on them.
IMG_4864.jpeg

So you offer a still picture that doesn’t reflect the incident at all. I’ve watched it time and again and there is absolute no foul.

Check out the Millwall player reaction. It tells you everything.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:52 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:49 pm
Not a single Millwall player (4 of them right next to it) appealed at all. This is usually a good indication. Sky comms didn’t even mention a potential foul. Your strong view that it would be ‘so easy to overturn’ doesn’t have any evidence other than a (wrong) opinion.

Spot on

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:55 pm**

And a good indicator is that no Millwall players complained as soon as we scored.. no-one waving their arms around, no-one moaning at the ref.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 4:58 pm**

RVclaret wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:49 pm
Not a single Millwall player (4 of them right next to it) appealed at all. This is usually a good indication. Sky comms didn’t even mention a potential foul. Your strong view that it would be ‘so easy to overturn’ doesn’t have any evidence other than a (wrong) opinion.

At least one player does appeal. The clarets player comms even mentions "Millwall are appealing for a foul". So that's "wrong" for a start. And the facts are, he lunges with both feet in the air and studs showing. It's a clear foul and there's blatant evidence to support it. Again, wrong.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 5:03 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:51 pm
So you offer a still picture that doesn’t reflect the incident at all. I’ve watched it time and again and there is absolute no foul.

Check out the Millwall player reaction. It tells you everything.

So are you saying he didn't lunge with studs showing? In what way doesn't it reflect the incident, be specific instead of just criticising the use of it.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 5:05 pm**

willsclarets wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 4:58 pm
At least one player does appeal. The clarets player comms even mentions "Millwall are appealing for a foul". So that's "wrong" for a start. And the facts are, he lunges with both feet in the air and studs showing. It's a clear foul and there's blatant evidence to support it. Again, wrong.

The guy who appealed, who wasn’t near the tackle, looks like he initially appealed for the first one where Tanganga goes flying, and was following up on that. All 4 near the Barnes tackle don’t even think about it. If it was as clear as foul that you say I am fairly certain at least 1, if not all, would have at least showed some reaction. Your description of the tackle and what actually happened don’t line up.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 5:07 pm**

willsclarets wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 5:03 pm
So are you saying he didn't lunge with studs showing? In what way doesn't it reflect the incident, be specific instead of just criticising the use of it.

He’s nowhere near the Millwall player on that pic, nowhere near. If you watch it through there simply isn’t a foul there. Not one Millwall player reacts at all. I can’t actually believe anyone could think there’s a foul.

Posted: **Sun May 04, 2025 5:11 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun May 04, 2025 5:07 pm
He’s nowhere near the Millwall player on that pic, nowhere near. If you watch it through there simply isn’t a foul there. Not one Millwall player reacts at all. I can’t actually believe anyone could think there’s a foul.

No foul, Barnesy was miles away ... no reaction by Millwall players or bench ... why are folk looking to say any different ... beats me

Millwalls goal - offside?

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