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a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:46 pm
by yTib
going back to the heckenhurst ave thread, is there any evidence that there was a bigger roman influence in the area?
gorple road seems to be roman, as do the structures just to the north.
st. james's street is rumoured to be prehistoric as is ightenhill park lane leading to altham.
has any significant archaeology been done around the main town?
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 5:48 pm
by Pickles
This just reminded me of Pavlyuchenko.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:12 pm
by Rowls
Pickles just reminded me of Pavyluchenko.
It's all too distressing.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:17 pm
by yTib
i doubt rowls has ever stood on gorple road or park lane
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 7:17 pm
by exilecanada
Sorry to hijack your Roman thread but Gorple Rd brings back fond memories. There was longish almost perfectly straight stretch of road where we could open up our cars. I had a '64 MG Midget and '68 MG 1300 which, for the period, could move along quite well. Good fun.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:32 pm
by Volvoclaret
Sorry to burst the Roman Rd bubble, but there is no evidence that Gorple was Roman. It is possibly an iron age track that later became a pack horse route. The bottom half was later cinder tracked when the reservoirs were being built and wooden buildings were erected that housed the Navvies.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:42 pm
by Fez
Only possibility is roads passing through to Ribchester I think.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:57 pm
by dougcollins
exilecanada wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 7:17 pm
and '68 MG 1300 which, for the period, could move along quite well. Good fun.
Was that the MGBGT?
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:22 pm
by elwaclaret
One of my pet subjects… the A59 Ribchester was a major crossroads in the northwest, hence the fort. It linked York Blackburn and Preston mini forts (eg Walton Summit) to Lancaster and Cumbria. Along the A59 were around thirteen watchtowers between Ribchester and Colne. Above A59 Bowland was largely unoccupied away from the road to Lancaster. Up to about 100ad the Cumbri celts where hostile to Rome and attacked Ribchester led by Cartimandia’s estranged husband. Allied to Cumbri was another former Brigantia Confederation tribe the Setantii… they had been pushed from the North west coast by the Roman advance up the west coast, east, in all likelyhood these Celts settled in the forest of Blackborne… which included Pendle, Trawden and Rossendale forests.
This forest was not cut down until King John to King Henry VIII. Names likes Pendle Hill (three languages translation = hillhill hill) and other local names like Top Barr= top crest of hill… suggest Celtic roots along with later influences. The lack of roman finds away from thoroughfares suggests at no time was our part of east Lancs settled by romans, but was by Bryathian Celts… possibly the little known Satantii.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:31 pm
by Awayfromburnley
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:22 pm
One of my pet subjects… the A59 Ribchester was a major crossroads in the northwest, hence the fort. It linked York Blackburn and Preston mini forts (eg Walton Summit) to Lancaster and Cumbria. Along the A59 were around thirteen watchtowers between Ribchester and Colne. Above A59 Bowland was largely unoccupied away from the road to Lancaster. Up to about 100ad the Cumbri celts where hostile to Rome and attacked Ribchester led by Cartimandia’s estranged husband. Allied to Cumbri was another former Brigantia Confederation tribe the Setantii… they had been pushed from the North west coast by the Roman advance up the west coast, east, in all likelyhood these Celts settled in the forest of Blackborne… which included Pendle, Trawden and Rossendale forests.
This forest was not cut down until King John to King Henry VIII. Names likes Pendle Hill (three languages translation = hillhill hill) and other local names like Top Barr= top crest of hill… suggest Celtic roots along with later influences. The lack of roman finds away from thoroughfares suggests at no time was our part of east Lancs settled by romans, but was by Bryathian Celts… possibly the little known Satantii.
Love this, could read this kind of localised knowledge all day long!
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:56 pm
by elwaclaret
Awayfromburnley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:31 pm
Love this, could read this kind of localised knowledge all day long!
Further backing the theory of the Satantii controlling the area is that they may well have morphed into the Kingdom of Elmet, so long thought to be in West Yorkshire has now been pinpointed further west… to what we would now call “Brontë Country” by a large scale genetic mapping of ancient burials by University of Central London… this Kingdom remained distinctly Brythonic in DNA makeup until around 800ad… long after Bede and King Alfred and “Unified England” we always hear about… this is because the North West was not “England” but, as Bede put it “Strangers” I.e. “Welsh” - which now makes claims for Arthurian Myths and the Battle of Brunanbagh actually taking place around Lancashire first investigated serious in the Victorian era… less far fetched than has previously been supposed.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:57 pm
by Awayfromburnley
I had heard Brunanbagh was potentially around Worsthorne way
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:03 pm
by elwaclaret
Awayfromburnley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:57 pm
I had heard Brunanbagh was potentially around Worsthorne way
Rossendale also has a claim… and what is thought to be remains of ramparts… though an excavation in the 60’s failed to find anything… modern experts point out they didn’t go deep enough (at 6’) as any finds in our area from the period would likely be closer to 9’ under todays surface.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:13 pm
by Volvoclaret
Awayfromburnley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:57 pm
I had heard Brunanbagh was potentially around Worsthorne way
Many years ago I read an article that made an argument that The Ridge was the site of Brunanburgh and that there's a couple of burial mounds near Waltons Spire Nelson where the dead from the battle were buried. None of which has been verified and remains conjecture.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:34 pm
by elwaclaret
Volvoclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:13 pm
Many years ago I read an article that made an argument that The Ridge was the site of Brunanburgh and that there's a couple of burial mounds near Waltons Spire Nelson where the dead from the battle were buried. None of which has been verified and remains conjecture.
The big problem we have, being part of the ancient Royal Forests of Palatine Lancs… permission for digs often needs permission from the Ruling Monarch… Something they are not keen on giving historically because it may well undermine the accepted version of history that underpins their power base. Queen Elizabeth was extremely keen on the area but also very against allowing archaeological digs on ‘her land’ eg the Trough of Bowland, it remains to be seen if the King is more inclined.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:35 pm
by exilecanada
dougcollins wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:57 pm
Was that the MGBGT?
No, the MG 1300 was a fancied up Austin/Morris 1100 with a 1275cc engine and twin 1.5" SU carbs. I did have and MGB here in Canada, a ragtop, not a BGT.
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:01 pm
by Volvoclaret
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:34 pm
The big problem we have, being part of the ancient Royal Forests of Palatine Lancs… permission for digs often needs permission from the Ruling Monarch… Something they are not keen on giving historically because it may well undermine the accepted version of history that underpins their power base. Queen Elizabeth was extremely keen on the area but also very against allowing archaeological digs on ‘her land’ eg the Trough of Bowland, it remains to be seen if the King is more inclined.
Get thee metal detector and I'll bring mi spade and we'll meet at shooters and do a rest job of proving/disproving the theory. But don't let anyone know!
Re: a roman burnley?
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2025 12:19 am
by elwaclaret
Big Gaz posted about Richard the third and the Plantagenets in Yorkshire, and that no royalty really came to east Lancs, but somehow when I tried to reply the post got tangled with my reply and when I tried to disentangle them both were deleted.
Not sure if it was my error, but, I apologise to BigGaz in case it was something I did rather than a system glitch.
