• England vs India Third test

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:43 pm**

How do you think we will line up?

I think we could see a little bit of change in this match, I’m going to throw my wild card out there:

Pope
Duckett
Bethell
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Overton
Archer
Carse
Cook

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:52 pm**

Wokes average at Lords is something like 14 if he is fit enough surely he plays even if it means he misses the rest of the games. For me bethel comes in not gonna drop the vice captain who scored a century in the last game though not sure how we fit him in possibly for bashir. 1 of Archer or Atkinson will play it’s a huge risk to start both though. Cook was unthreatening against Zimbabwe so not sure he comes in now unless the pitch is helpful for him would have been flogged in the last 2 games

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:57 pm**

4 changes? No chance.

Atkinson and Archer might come in?

Are your other picks in the squad?

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:00 pm**

Reality will be Archer and Atkinson for Tongue and Carse. What it should be is a much different conversation.

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:02 pm**

Milltown1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:00 pm
Reality will be Archer and Atkinson for Tongue and Carse. What it should be is a much different conversation.

I get your point but surely Crawley has got to be dropped

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:02 pm**

Archer and Anderson for me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:03 pm**

Massive risk if they go with Archer and Atkinson both coming back from injury. Boiling hot weather, possibility of a very hard slog in the field.

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:45 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 07, 2025 7:02 pm
I get your point but surely Crawley has got to be dropped

That’s where the batsmen being a different conversation was aiming at. Sibley, Hameed and Haines all going well. The latter would be a clean slate but I’m tired of seeing Crawley get out the same way every time.

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 8:56 pm**

It would definitely be a risk going with Archer and Atkinson, especially with Stokes’ injury record.

Posted: **Mon Jul 07, 2025 10:00 pm**

Looks like Baz has confirmed we won’t be going with the Bethell spin option (which suggests Bashir will definitely play).

So my expected starting eleven slightly changes.

Pope
Duckett
Bethell
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Overton
Archer
Carse
Bashir

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 8:39 am**

Massively worried if Archer plays. The law of averages says India will win a toss soon, and if they do, they will obviously bat again..it's said to be a hot 5 days in London.

Gill is wise for a young Captain, and his team talk will be let's keep Archers adrenalin filled first spell as unsuccessful as possible, then let's make him bowl 3/4 more spells during the day.

I've played 3/4 day cricket and I can assure you it's bloody hard work, being in the field all day and then having to bowl too, no matter how fit you are the body stiffens up later in the day as you cool down after bowling spells.

Without being the Grim Reaper, I really worry for Archers career if he plays in this test, to come straight into the test arena with barely a days red ball cricket in the tank is utter madness if you ask me.

Hope I'm proven very wrong...fingers crossed.

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 8:45 am**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 07, 2025 5:43 pm
How do you think we will line up?

I think we could see a little bit of change in this match, I’m going to throw my wild card out there:

Pope
Duckett
Bethell
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Overton
Archer
Carse
Cook

I don't think Pope is anywhere near good enough to open the batting at the moment. His head is all over the place, technically not mentally obviously.

Lords, with it's slope is about the last place on earth you want to be batting if you've got head alignment issues as it massively exadurates any flaws..

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:16 am**

Andreshotboots wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 08, 2025 8:45 am
I don't think Pope is anywhere near good enough to open the batting at the moment. His head is all over the place, technically not mentally obviously.

Lords, with it's slope is about the last place on earth you want to be batting if you've got head alignment issues as it massively exadurates any flaws..

Add to that the thought of Overton and Cook plodding in abd it's about as poor a team as could be picked from the squad available.

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:33 am**

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:16 am
Add to that the thought of Overton and Cook plodding in abd it's about as poor a team as could be picked from the squad available.

Totally agree. Very good County cricketers but a million miles from Test standard. To say all our place bowlers are under central contracts, how much good have those contracts actually done for injury prevention and incrresed availability,? I'd say not much.

Fast bowling is one of the most strenuous things you can do to a body in sport, the forces going through the legs, ankles, back etc are incredible, so I sort of get the thought behind protecting the bowlers, but you've also got to get lots and lots of overs into them too to build up the power and strength, and the resistance to injury.

I think wrapping them up in cotton wool is having an adverse effect on their fitness personally, you can't just go from controlled net sessions, to being in the field for 120 overs and having to bowl 30..

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:49 am**

I can't see them risking Atkinson though I think Archer will play instead of Tongue. Don't think we need a specialist spin bowler at Lord's but Bashir seems to be Stokes' pet project so he'll probably play despite doing next to nothing to justify his continued selection. If Cook & Overton are our back up seam bowlers then that cupboard is extremely bare.

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2025 11:17 am**

sjb wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:49 am
I can't see them risking Atkinson though I think Archer will play instead of Tongue. Don't think we need a specialist spin bowler at Lord's but Bashir seems to be Stokes' pet project so he'll probably play despite doing next to nothing to justify his continued selection. If Cook & Overton are our back up seam bowlers then that cupboard is extremely bare.

I'm a little more forgiving on Bashir. He's a young spin bowler, he's still working on variations and it takes time.

Just like most top goalkeepers, they reach their very best from mid career onwards. One thing he has got is height, and bounce will always be a good weapon for a finger spinner. He's hardly had the ultimate conditions to bowl in so far either, as we keep winning the toss and bowling..

Let's also not forget a certain SK Warne in the early stages of his career was classed as a batting all rounder who could bowl a bit of spin...he turned out OK...

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:20 am**

The team is:

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Woakes
Carse
Archer
Bashir

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:22 am**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:20 am
The team is:

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Woakes
Carse
Archer
Bashir

Say whattttttt? They didn't make 4 changes or anything like that? Well I for one am in complete shock.........

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:27 am**

It’s a tough team to get out of.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:28 am**

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:27 am
It’s a tough team to get out of.

How Crawley and Bashir have managed to stay in that side is crazy.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:43 am**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:28 am
How Crawley and Bashir have managed to stay in that side is crazy.

Both part of the long term 'project ashes'. They must fancy Bashir as the spinner with the best chance of success in Oz. (Not that spinners do much anyway out there)

Crawley- does well when there's no lateral movement and the bounce is true- so it could be argued he's well suited for Oz conditions.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2025 12:15 pm**

Oh well, my prediction a while ago that Archer wouldn't play test cricket again was wrong.

Although there is still time for him to injure himself before tomorrow.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:00 am**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:20 am
The team is:

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Smith
Woakes
Carse
Archer
Bashir

As I predicted

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:51 am**

England won the toss and will bat first.

Or as the current phrase seems to be, will have bat in hand.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:57 am**

How many chances do some players get? I can't believe Crawley has kept his place.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:13 am**

Hbclaret007 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:57 am
How many chances do some players get? I can't believe Crawley has kept his place.

He gets the occasional score that seems to keep him in. This series he’s scored 88 in four innings.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:20 am**

Bue he has been part of a very successful opening pair for quite a while now - the left hand right hand / tall guy short guy mix makes it difficult for bowlers to settle.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:28 am**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:20 am
Bue he has been part of a very successful opening pair for quite a while now - the left hand right hand / tall guy short guy mix makes it difficult for bowlers to settle.

Average of 31 as an opener after 56 Tests does suggest he's pretty fortunate to be in this team

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:40 am**

What's his average per year been?

What's the opening partnership average been? They seem to get the team off to a good start pretty regularly for the last couple of years.

Single stats rarely paint the picture.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:47 am**

From AI tool

Ben Duckett and Zak Crawley have become England's established Test opening partnership under the "Bazball" era, marked by an aggressive and high-scoring approach. Their partnership is distinctive for its rapid scoring rate and ability to lay a platform for England's middle order.

Here's a summary of their partnership compared to others:

Ben Duckett and Zak Crawley as England Test Openers
Aggressive Approach: They embody the "Bazball" philosophy, aiming to score quickly and put pressure on the opposition from the outset. This is evident in their run-rate.

Significant Partnerships:

They hold the record for the quickest partnership of over 200 runs by an opening pair in Test history, achieving 233 runs against Pakistan in Rawalpindi (2022) at an astounding run rate of 6.53.

They are also the first pair in history to have multiple 200+ opening partnerships at a scoring rate above five (233 vs Pakistan at 6.53 RR, and 231 vs Zimbabwe in 2025 at 5.56 RR).

They recently posted 188 against India in the fourth innings at Headingley (June 2025), which was the highest opening stand against India in a fourth innings, the highest at Headingley, and the second-highest for England in a fourth innings.

Individual Form: Duckett, in particular, has thrived since his return in late 2022, averaging over 47 since then with a strike rate of 88.07. His Test average as an opener (44.98) even exceeds that of Sir Alastair Cook (44.86) over his career. Crawley has also contributed with centuries and important supporting knocks.

The period since Alastair Cook's retirement (and even before, considering Andrew Strauss's departure in 2012) has been a turbulent one for England's Test opening partnerships. Many combinations have been tried with limited success.

Post-Cook Era Challenges: Since Alastair Cook's retirement (around September 2018), England has struggled to find a consistent and productive opening pair. Before Duckett and Crawley, England often saw an average opening partnership of around 28.40. Many openers tried in this period have averaged under 30.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:54 am**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:40 am
What's his average per year been?

What's the opening partnership average been? They seem to get the team off to a good start pretty regularly for the last couple of years.

Single stats rarely paint the picture.

To be fair, his average in 2021 was only 10.25 which massively brings it down which backs up your point.

To be even fairer to him, in the last Ashes, he was England's top scorer across the series against a very good attack so you can understand the selectors keeping faith with him

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:57 am**

Nipping about all over the place now.

This looks a very tough place to bat

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:06 pm**

matttheclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 11:54 am
To be fair, his average in 2021 was only 10.25 which massively brings it down which backs up your point.

To be even fairer to him, in the last Ashes, he was England's top scorer across the series against a very good attack so you can understand the selectors keeping faith with him

In the last 12 months Crawley has scored 403 at an average of 25.18

Worth noting that also includes the friendly test match against Zimbabwe. If you take that friendly out of it his average over the last 12 months is 19.79

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:09 pm**

Duckett gone 43/1

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:09 pm**

It wasn't a friendly, it was a one off test.... single stats are pretty pointless, manipulated single stats to try and prove a point even more so.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:12 pm**

Crawley gone 44/2

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:14 pm**

Pope trying his best to get out here

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:14 pm**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:09 pm
It wasn't a friendly, it was a one off test.... single stats are pretty pointless, manipulated single stats to try and prove a point even more so.

Whichever way you look at it, his stats are not good, except against lesser test playing nations. And he has just failed again now..

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:14 pm**

Ollie Pope looking as settled as ever....... Crawley gone to a jaffer.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:15 pm**

Pope dropped twice in his first three balls.
Time to cash in.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:15 pm**

This actually looks like a howler batting first

Pitch is doing everything

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:16 pm**

Hbclaret007 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:14 pm
Whichever way you look at it, his stats are not good, except against lesser test playing nations. And he has just failed again now..

Which other stats are not good enough?

AS for today, I would say Duckett has failed - getting out to a bad ball. Crawley has just gotten out to a very good ball. I'm not proclaiming Crawley to be in the best ever category - just that there's such a narrow focus that he gets too much stick in my opinion.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:19 pm**

Averages are the best barometer, especially for openers, especially over such a sustained period.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:24 pm**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:16 pm
Which other stats are not good enough?

5 centuries in 102 innings isn’t good enough I’d say

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:26 pm**

Average wise - Cook Strauss averaged 40.40 as an opening batting pair. Duckett Crawley average 43.62 (51 innings). I suspect this might be something the selectors are looking at as well as pace of scoring.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:28 pm**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:26 pm
Average wise - Cook Strauss averaged 40.40 as an opening batting pair. Duckett Crawley average 43.62 (51 innings). I suspect this might be something the selectors are looking at as well as pace of scoring.

I agree that probably the reason he plays is because him and Duckett can score quickly….its as if the selectors would hate a Boycott or Atherton opening

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:34 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:06 pm
In the last 12 months Crawley has scored 403 at an average of 25.18

Worth noting that also includes the friendly test match against Zimbabwe. If you take that friendly out of it his average over the last 12 months is 19.79

Yeah, but AI said....

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:41 pm**

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:34 pm
Yeah, but AI said....

I can get a summary of stats quicker than people can….. don’t be scared if the future…..

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:10 pm**

It’s not hard to look up facts in this day and age.
For instance since he came back from injury these are his Test scores against teams in the Test Championship

78
27 and 3
29 and 2
0 and 1
17 and 8
21 and 5
4 and 65
19 and 0
18

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:18 pm**

dandeclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:41 pm
I can get a summary of stats quicker than people can….. don’t be scared if the future…..

How quickly could you see that Cook and Strauss's average isn't that great and is a modest bar to compare against?

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