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RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:11 pm
by jdrobbo
Michael Oliver (Northumberland) v Liverpool
How to Score
A. Decision Making (including use of advantage) - out of 25
B. Consistency - out of 25
C. Fitness and Positioning - of 25
D. Control and Authority - out of 25
Please only Rate the Ref if you attended the game and only do so, after the game has ended.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:12 pm
by jdrobbo
A 18
B 12
C 23
D 17
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:16 pm
by BurnleyFC
I don’t like him at all, but he got both penalty decisions correct.
He missed umpteen instances of Konate climbing all over Foster, though.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:26 pm
by Woodleyclaret
A6
B7
C6
D6
An away blower chocked on all decisions for us
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:31 pm
by Rowls
Second week in a row lads. It's not about specific decisions, it's about character and integrity.
They've changed the laws on handball meaning they can give what they want if the ball strikes a hand. Nobody same thinks we'd get the decision if the roles were reversed.
There isn't even a decision to make if any of three soft incorrect decisions are judged correctly all the space of 2-3 minutes before the last minute stinker-decision. There's a throw-in awarded incorrectly to them. There's an extremely soft free kick given to them. And there's a foul in our penalty box in a favour which is waved away - leading to a corner that leads eventually to the culmination of the refereeing performance.
Make no mistake - we've been robbed of another point by a litany of soft decisions.
Second week in a row lads. When does a coincidence become a pattern?
A. 9
B. 5
C. 21
D. 6
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
by DAVETHEVICAR
Watching on TV got all the big decisions correct
Could have given straight red to Leslie - most referees imo would have done
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
by jdrobbo
Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:26 pm
A6
B7
C6
D6
An away blower chocked on all decisions for us
Whilst I completely accept your right to rate the referee, however you feel, I am very surprised by your ratings for fitness and positioning, because the one thing that Oliver is, is very fit and usually right over every incident.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:35 pm
by MeeActon1
DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
Watching on TV got all the big decisions correct
Could have given straight red to Leslie - most referees imo would have done
No, really, who’d have thought it?
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:37 pm
by ollieclarets8
DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
Watching on TV got all the big decisions correct
Could have given straight red to Leslie - most referees imo would have done
The yellow card he won the ball and went through. It was a yellow at worst. Most referees would have given a yellow or nothing.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:37 pm
by MeeActon1
5
5
20
5
Just Michael Oliver doing Michael Oliver things. @Ashington Claret, please pass on my regards to your mate Mike at you next branch meeting.
No quibble on the penalty, that was just Hannibal being the liability he is.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:37 pm
by Goody1975
DAVETHEVICAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
Watching on TV got all the big decisions correct
Could have given straight red to Leslie - most referees imo would have done
Give the blocking/foul on Ekdal and there is no decision to make.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:48 pm
by Rowls
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:37 pm
Give the blocking/foul on Ekdal and there is no decision to make.
Spot on.
It's consistently being weighted against in these (seemingly) "minor" decisions that leads the referees relentlessly onwards to the kind of decisions they want to give - penalties for big teams against the likes of us.
Second week in a row.
We've been refereed into.conceding a penalty.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:48 pm
by Steve-Harpers-perm
Supposedly the best isn’t he? Says it all really.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:54 pm
by Goody1975
Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:48 pm
Supposedly the best isn’t he? Says it all really.
Oliver and Taylor referee the big teams every other week, they more or less share the big matches. They occasionally are given lesser sides to balance things up but generally they are the go to pair.
It leads to over familiarity and I personally don't think that's good for the competition.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:55 pm
by Overseascricketer
A- 15. Got most of the big decisions right. Think Les is lucky he wasn’t sent off considering Oliver’s usual decisions he gives against us. He gave a honking decision for a corner in the first half
B- 15. Consistently gave decisions in favour of Liverpool.
C- 25. Always up with play
D- 18
No matter when we have him he always proves that he isn’t the best we have. Taylor streets ahead
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:56 pm
by Les Lawrence
Is Dave the vicar Olivers dad
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:59 pm
by ollieclarets8
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:54 pm
Oliver and Taylor referee the big teams every other week, they more or less share the big matches. They occasionally are given lesser sides to balance things up but generally they are the go to pair.
It leads to over familiarity and I personally don't think that's good for the competition.
It leads to bias which is evident every weekend.
The problem isn't just the referees. The problem is with the people who manage these referees.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:01 pm
by Dark Cloud
He has a tendency to assume the big teams are right and the lesser teams have transgressed and that was very evident today. Of course ultimately it was a penalty at the end, but it's all the other stuff which went before which bugs me!
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:08 pm
by Rowls
Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:01 pm
He has a tendency to assume the big teams are right and the lesser teams have transgressed and that was very evident today. Of course ultimately it was a penalty at the end, but it's all the other stuff which went before which bugs me!
It's all those decisions that
lead to the penalty.
It's not a coincidence it's happened for the second week running. It was the same story last week.
The pundits, the VAR, the PGMOL - they'll review the big decisions and rubber stamp it all. But they won't be reviewing the several soft decisions that went their way in the lead up to the penalty, or throughout the game for that matter.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:09 pm
by gawthorpe_view
Les Lawrence wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:56 pm
Is Dave the vicar Olivers dad
No but he preaches forgiveness.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:14 pm
by Goody1975
Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:01 pm
He has a tendency to assume the big teams are right and the lesser teams have transgressed and that was very evident today. Of course ultimately it was a penalty at the end, but it's all the other stuff which went before which bugs me!
but VAR will correct any errors, unfortunately all they seem to do is rubber stamp the on-field decisions.
Use technology to get a definitive call, sticking with the on-field decision often leads to different outcomes for the same scenario.
Technology therefore is not fit for purpose.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:15 pm
by AfloatinClaret
Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:01 pm
He has a tendency to assume the big teams are right and the lesser teams have transgressed...
Sadly, that's life in the EPL.No different in this game/this season than it's been since forever.
Watching on TV I thought the referee treated us more fairly than most; he yellow carded a Liverpool player for a similar tackle to Les' and wasn't swayed by either of their penalty area dives; that unfortunately is as good as it gets against a big-six club.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:23 pm
by Dark Cloud
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:14 pm
but VAR will correct any errors, unfortunately all they seem to do is rubber stamp the on-field decisions.
Use technology to get a definitive call, sticking with the on-field decision often leads to different outcomes for the same scenario.
Technology therefore is not fit for purpose.
The technology is not fit for purpose! Absolutely spot on. (Unless it's goal line technology which works extremely well tbf!)
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:25 pm
by MT03ALG
5
5
5
5
Michael was obviously overjoyed to give the penalty.
He was equally delighted to award 2 yellow cards for 2 tackles.
If his Liverpool team were unable to beat the 11 men of Burnley, better to give them a man less.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:26 pm
by Rowls
Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:23 pm
The technology is not fit for purpose! Absolutely spot on. (Unless it's goal line technology which works extremely well tbf!)
Understand what you mean but it's not "the technology" that's the problem. It's the people in charge of it.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:27 pm
by fungus_the_bogeyman
A 10
B 10
C 25
D 20
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:28 pm
by Bosscat
15
15
20
15
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:31 pm
by ClaretTony
jdrobbo wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:32 pm
Whilst I completely accept your right to rate the referee, however you feel, I am very surprised by your ratings for fitness and positioning, because the one thing that Oliver is, is very fit and usually right over every incident.
Impossible to rate him low for fitness and positioning
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:32 pm
by Stproc
The problem with refereeing isn’t always what they but it which instance they give.
Last week there were 10 instances of shirt pulling or grappling in box but which 1 did he give.
Today, again, I have no major problem with the penalty as it looks like one, but did he do it deliberately were his arms in an unnatural position?
The foul by Bradley was the worst of the game, he stayed on.
10
5
20
15
There absolutely no consistency in referees or the abomination that is VAR
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:34 pm
by ClaretTony
A 16
B 14
C 22
D 16
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:34 pm
by munkyennui
Said on the match thread. The small decisions are stacked up against us. Big Les cops the first yellow because Ekdal's foul is not given. He couldn't wait to send him off. The arms in the back constantly against but none given for. Some iffy corners and nothing free kicks. Been told on the match thread that my call of harsh for the penalty is incorrect but like Rowls says there is a number of small inconsistent decisions that a big club gets in the lead up to that. VDV and Oliver looked like good friends, enjoyed lovely long conversations: control and authority reduced because of that.
A - 8
B - 5
C - 18
D - 12
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:36 pm
by Goody1975
Rowls wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:26 pm
Understand what you mean but it's not "the technology" that's the problem. It's the people in charge of it.
I've argued this from the start, if you look at the same incident in two separate games and give two different outcomes then why are you using technology?
Saying it's not clear and obvious is a cop out, if that is the case then VAR should barely be seen or used at all..
Just go back to referees, goal line technology and mistaken identity.
Improve the quality of officials not swamp the game with outside influences.
The cameramen on the field when Salah scored shows what a circus it's become.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:38 pm
by Buxtonclaret
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:37 pm
Give the blocking/foul on Ekdal and there is no decision to make.
I was shouting similar, at my screen!
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:38 pm
by Beagleheart
18
8
22
22
He absolutely had to send Kerkez off for two yellows but, not for the first time (Norwich away under Dyche) this referee decided not to apply the laws of the game for some reason but did so (correctly) for Ugochukwu. Highly inconsistent.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:38 pm
by Rowls
Goody1975 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:36 pm
I've argued this from the start, if you look at the same incident in two separate games and give two different outcomes then why are you using technology?
Saying it's not clear and obvious is a cop out, if that is the case then VAR should barely be seen or used at all..
Just go back to referees, goal line technology and mistaken identity.
Improve the quality of officials not swamp the game with outside influences.
The cameramen on the field when Salah scored shows what a circus it's become.
There is a way they could easily use the hardware ("technology") to get much better decisions:
Rowls wrote: ↑Mon Aug 25, 2025 12:32 pm
True, but it's not even primarily a personnel problem. It's how they've set it up. It's almost as if they've deliberately set it up to "rubber stamp" bad decisions instead of doing their best to get things right. This isnt just incompetent; it's moral cowardice.
Referred decisions need to judged 'blind' to stop this. The VAR refs shouldn't know what the onfield decision was.
The onfield red should be able to refer decisions to a VAR panel and so should a designated VAR ref watching the game live.
The VAR ref doesn't have any say in what the décision is going to be, he only has the ability to refer a contentious decision.
The infield ref can refer to the panel.also when he's unsure of a decision.
When a decision is referred, the panel of refs watch the footage independently. The footage doesn't have any sound. They don't know the onfield decision. They don't discuss it. Discussing it leads to group think.
They should be asked a binary choice question. Eg. Decision required: "penalty or no penalty?" "Handball or no handball?"
The VAR panel should be an equal number so in the event of a tied decision the onfield decision acts as the "deciding vote".
Things like determining whether handball is "deliberate" are subjective. But at least this way we'd reach majority verdict.
We'd reach much better decisions if it was set up this way.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:41 pm
by Dark Cloud
Rowls wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:26 pm
Understand what you mean but it's not "the technology" that's the problem. It's the people in charge of it.
And that's absolutely the crux of the issue. Goal line technology is pure "technology" and the human factor has been removed, which ironically is why it works so well. VAR is simply technology relying on human judgement and interpretation which is precisely why it's so useless and controversial.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:52 pm
by Rowls
Dark Cloud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:41 pm
And that's absolutely the crux of the issue. Goal line technology is pure "technology" and the human factor has been removed, which ironically is why it works so well. VAR is simply technology relying on human judgement and interpretation which is precisely why it's so useless and controversial.
It isn't "uesless" - it's being implemented in a useless manner.
If the decisions were reviewed "blind" then the tendancy to rubber stamp onfield decisions would be nulified.
If decisions were reached by majority of a panel (including the onfield referee) then we could have faith that ambiguous decisions were reached in a fair and transparent method. Whether we personally agree with them or not.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:54 pm
by Luppy
A - 20 - like it or not, he got the big decisions right. He could have red carded Les for first challenge, he could have red carded Bradley. Gave both benefit of doubt. The penalty - it’s a penalty. End of
B. - 10 - on the simple basis that he gave Liverpool soft free kicks after soft free kick and never gave us one. There was a clear push on Cullen right in front of him first half not given, then 30 seconds later the slightest of nudges on Konate and he blows immediately. The corner he gave first half as well was beyond ridiculous - just cos they appealed for it!
C. 22
D. 20
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 5:59 pm
by Vino blanco
He couldn’t wait to send Hugo off in the second half.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:01 pm
by MDWat
A - 20
B - 10
C - 25
D - 20
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:01 pm
by MDWat
A - 20
B - 10
C - 25
D - 20
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:09 pm
by Spike
A)6 got two corners completely wrong
B)10
C)19
D) 8
Don’t assessors ever think that if a referee chit chats between decisions to just one team that he is already biased in their favour
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:11 pm
by MrTopTier
A. Decision making- 15
B. Consistency 18
C. Fitness and Positioning - 22
D. Control and Authority - 18
Overall he didn’t do a lot wrong and got the big decisions right. Kerkez was rightly booked and the penalty was a penalty. The sending off was right.
As others have said and I agree, it is the number of little decisions that do not go our way, it is that accumulo effect that consistently puts on the back foot. The persistent fouling when the ball is the air, the bias in those decisions seemingly favouring the bigger sides. It happens, it happened at Old Trafford, it happened today, it will happen again.
When you get an “um ba ba” from the cricket field for two fouls, you know how difficult it is in this league.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:45 pm
by Steve-Harpers-perm
MrTopTier wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:11 pm
A. Decision making- 15
B. Consistency 18
C. Fitness and Positioning - 22
D. Control and Authority - 18
Overall he didn’t do a lot wrong and got the big decisions right. Kerkez was rightly booked and the penalty was a penalty. The sending off was right.
As others have said and I agree, it is the number of little decisions that do not go our way, it is that accumulo effect that consistently puts on the back foot. The persistent fouling when the ball is the air, the bias in those decisions seemingly favouring the bigger sides. It happens, it happened at Old Trafford, it happened today, it will happen again.
When you get an “um ba ba” from the cricket field for two fouls, you know how difficult it is in this league.
Add to that giving corners like when they shot over the bar in the first half.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:55 pm
by nonayclaret
Decision Making (including use of advantage) - out of 25
A 10
B. Consistency - 5 MOST IN FAVOUR OF YOU KNOW WHO.
C. Fitness and Positioning - 25
D. Control and Authority - 20
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:59 pm
by THEWELLERNUT70
Let's have it right Oliver was appalling first half but improved a bit second half
1st half a Liverpool player received lengthy treatment but Oliver didn't apply the rules and allowed him to stay on the pitch for the Liverpool freekick
A corner was award where the Liverpool players shot went straight out of play, the Liverpool player then advised Oliver the Burnley player touched the ball and only then did he give the corner
A Liverpool player hit the deck ( slipped ) in front of the longside before a Burnley player made any sort of contact, foul Liverpool
I could go on be he really was that bad first half
A/ 10
B/ 10
C/ 20
D/ 10
The marks are slightly higher purely because he improved second half
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:04 pm
by daveisaclaret
THEWELLERNUT70 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:59 pm
1st half a Liverpool player received lengthy treatment but Oliver didn't apply the rules and allowed him to stay on the pitch for the Liverpool freekick
He did apply the rules, the player doesn't have to leave the field if a card is given for a challenge that makes them need treatment.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:06 pm
by dougcollins
daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:04 pm
He did apply the rules, the player doesn't have to leave the field if a card is given for a challenge that makes them need treatment.
I did wonder about that.
Is this a new directive?
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:11 pm
by Ashingtonclaret46
THEWELLERNUT70 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 6:59 pm
...............
1st half a Liverpool player received lengthy treatment but Oliver didn't apply the rules and allowed him to stay on the pitch for the Liverpool freekick
...............
He cautioned the offender who caused the injury, therefore, he was correct to allow the injured player to stay on the field. TLOG
Sorry dave I was doing this at the same time as you.
Re: RATE THE REF - Michael Oliver v Liverpool
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:22 pm
by aggi
daveisaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 7:04 pm
He did apply the rules, the player doesn't have to leave the field if a card is given for a challenge that makes them need treatment.
Same happened with Anthony in the second half (where it was clear the commentators didn't know the rules).