Black market ticket crisis

[Leisure]

A black market selling thousands of Premier League tickets has been revealed by a BBC investigation.

Companies based at a number of overseas locations, including in a Swiss town with a population of 4,000, are behind it.

They are thought to be using memberships and computer software to obtain tickets at scale through clubs' online ticket platforms.

The resale of tickets is illegal in the UK, and the Premier League names the websites on an "unauthorised list"., external

Despite this, BBC Sport was able to buy tickets easily through the black market for four of last weekend's games. The practice has been described as "endemic" in English football.

Sunday's Manchester derby was sold out weeks ago, but we bought a pair of tickets in the City end days before the match.

We also made purchases for fixtures at Arsenal, Everton and West Ham.

At all four matches, our journalists were able to use the tickets to gain entry to the game.

But for others who have used these websites, this is not always the case, with fans telling BBC Sport they paid for tickets that didn't let them into games.

The tickets cost us two to four times the face value, and some were sent via UK phone numbers on Whatsapp, on one occasion with strict instructions not to speak to stewards.

The findings have prompted calls for clubs, the Premier League and government to do more to crackdown on the black market.

There is concern that the scale of the market is making it harder for supporters to get tickets from official sources at face value - and also creating a potential safety threat to strict segregation rules.

In response, clubs said they were working hard in this area, and had already cancelled tens of thousands of memberships and tickets.

[beddie]

Shocked when I read it all this morning. “Companies based at a number of overseas locations, including in a Swiss town with a population of 4,000, are behind it.” How on earth do they get hold of so many tickets.

[tarkys_ears]

It's only illegal when it's not Ticketmaster doing it.

[Leisure]

Shocked when I read it all this morning. “Companies based at a number of overseas locations, including in a Swiss town with a population of 4,000, are behind it.” How on earth do they get hold of so many tickets.

Taking Burnley as an example - if they buy say 4 Premium memberships @ £150 = £600, they then have access to purchase 4 tickets for all of our away games @ £30 each = £120 per game. They can then sell them at highly inflated prices and easily make a profit over a full season.

[NottsClaret]

You wonder how keen Prem clubs are on helping to stop this. They're selling memberships on the back of it, and getting high spending tourists into their grounds to replace 'legacy' fans. As a rule, they don't tend to put huge amounts of effort into stuff that'll reduce their revenue.

[AfloatinClaret]

What's the big surprise? Ticket Touting is nothing new and the touts, like every other profession that is able to, have moved their businesses online and are now working from home. A sensible move really, as far better security than dealing in cash outside the grounds and huge reduction in commuting times/cost, makes the industry far more environmentally friendly.

[ClaretTony]

No surprises really. I'm in a meeting next week with this having been placed on the agenda some weeks ago.

[Tribesmen]

My question is what can be done at Burnley to stop this ?

[Leisure]

More on this -
The Premier League’s "unauthorised" list of ticket sellers contains more than 50 websites. Including Stubhub and Vivid Seats, where Chelsea owner Todd Boehly is a director.
We chose to focus on four websites from this list that were accessible in the UK and appeared to be selling the most tickets.
The four sites in total listed tens of thousands of Premier League tickets for sale.
For example, more than 18,000 tickets were advertised for Arsenal v Nottingham Forest alone - nearly a third of the Emirates' capacity.
BBC Sport was not able to verify whether all these tickets were genuine beyond the ones we bought.
Ticket security expert Reg Walker believes "speculative listings - tickets these websites don't have" may explain the advertised numbers.
"In reality, probably only 10-25% of those tickets actually exist," he added.
For context, 10% would mean thousands of tickets for each round of Premier League matches.
Prices we saw ranged from £55 to £14,962, often far exceeding face value and usually including a significant booking fee.
"We had a family of Japanese tourists who paid £2,200 for tickets with an £87 face value," said Walker, who works with Premier League clubs as a consultant and has been operating in the ticketing industry for 40 years.
Tickets were even listed for Arsenal's exclusive Diamond Club and Manchester City's Tunnel Club.
The Football Supporters' Association called our findings "very concerning".
"It confirms what we've heard anecdotally...this is becoming endemic across the game," said FSA chair Tom Greatrex.
"Long-term supporters are finding it impossible to get tickets because of the way they are made available through secondary agencies."
The Premier League, which declined to comment on the findings, sees ticketing as primarily a responsibility of the clubs, but it is in the process of renewing its central support for club anti-touting operations.
Three of the tickets we received belonged to either members or season ticket holders
All our tickets were transferred digitally, in one instance on the morning of the game, and worked as mobile passes.
Seat numbers were not divulged until the tickets arrived.
For Everton's new Hill Dickinson Stadium, we ordered an upper tier, behind the goal seat.
What actually arrived was a Club View ticket near the halfway line - a private concourse for £1,200-a-season members, external - that included a free pint.
Days after the game at the Etihad, one digital ticket automatically changed in our mobile wallet - displaying a different seat number and appearing to be for the Champions League fixture against Napoli.
Only two of the clubs we visited responded to a request for comment on our findings.
Arsenal said they had cancelled almost 74,000 accounts attempting to obtain tickets in unauthorised ways as part of "strong action against ticket touting".
Everton said they have been running "joint operations with Merseyside Police to act against touts operating online and in person".

[Awayfromburnley]

All for reducing profiteering but what you will likely find is that any actions to try and tackle will likely have a disproportionate impact on genuine fans to move and swap tickets with family etc.

Fine balance, countless examples in life where actions are taken to address an issue that tends to impact the "innocent" more than it needs to.

[Paul Waine]

Taking Burnley as an example - if they buy say 4 Premium memberships @ £150 = £600, they then have access to purchase 4 tickets for all of our away games @ £30 each = £120 per game. They can then sell them at highly inflated prices and easily make a profit over a full season.

Hi Leisure, if you buy a Premium membership for £150 you can buy 1 away ticket for £30. It's been posted on here before that it is hospitality membership that can buy 4 away tickets.

I'm pretty sure Clarets numbers are required to buy Premium membership. I don't know if club makes any further checks before a new Clarets number is issued.

As ticket holders are told to being photo ID to games it's quite possible that this is part of Premier League response to unauthorised ticket sales.

Similarly, distributing E tickets by email a couple of days before the game is another part of Premier League response.

But, yes, ticket touts will always find a way if people are prepared to buy from ticket touts.

[Leisure]

Hi Leisure, if you buy a Premium membership for £150 you can buy 1 away ticket for £30. It's been posted on here before that it is hospitality membership that can buy 4 away tickets.

I'm pretty sure Clarets numbers are required to buy Premium membership. I don't know if club makes any further checks before a new Clarets number is issued.

As ticket holders are told to being photo ID to games it's quite possible that this is part of Premier League response to unauthorised ticket sales.

Similarly, distributing E tickets by email a couple of days before the game is another part of Premier League response.

But, yes, ticket touts will always find a way if people are prepared to buy from ticket touts.

Hi Paul - Yes, I appreciate that you can only buy 1 away ticket but if you take out say 4 memberships under different names, then you can obviously purchase more tickets.

[Paul Waine]

Hi Paul - Yes, I appreciate that you can only buy 1 away ticket but if you take out say 4 memberships under different names, then you can obviously purchase more tickets.

To buy a membership requires a Claret number. I'd expect the club will have some procedures to obtain ID before issuing new Claret numbers.

I'm not able to attend the club forum with Alan Pace. Perhaps someone can ask about club's procedures to safeguard against ticket touts?

[Leisure]

To buy a membership requires a Claret number. I'd expect the club will have some procedures to obtain ID before issuing new Claret numbers.

I'm not able to attend the club forum with Alan Pace. Perhaps someone can ask about club's procedures to safeguard against ticket touts?

Don't recall ID being required when my daughter bought a membership.

[Tribesmen]

OK I would say that if would be classed as a football tourist at the Turf. Myself and the wife has always gone for the last home game of the season due to Sky changing games times and days as flying in from Ireland you need to know this . Now missed this last season and this i would say but not knowing people who could help us I would say we would have to take a chance on resale tickets or last minute on here .
Never easy but would never pay a tout or stubhub etc etc .

[Big Vinny K]

Hi Leisure, if you buy a Premium membership for £150 you can buy 1 away ticket for £30. It's been posted on here before that it is hospitality membership that can buy 4 away tickets.

I'm pretty sure Clarets numbers are required to buy Premium membership. I don't know if club makes any further checks before a new Clarets number is issued.

As ticket holders are told to being photo ID to games it's quite possible that this is part of Premier League response to unauthorised ticket sales.

Similarly, distributing E tickets by email a couple of days before the game is another part of Premier League response.

But, yes, ticket touts will always find a way if people are prepared to buy from ticket touts.

That’s correct Paul.

For hospitality season tickets the club tried to introduce a transfer ticket online facility too. This was a different function to the ticket exchange facility available to other season ticket holders. This facility was working sporadically for the Sunderland game and it kept on crashing until they eventually withdrew it. Not sure if it’s fixed now as the function still appears to be there on the account menu. What this allows you to do is transfer your home tickets for individual games to a third party who does not need to be a season ticket holder and does not need a clarets number. There’s nothing to stop you selling this ticket to a complete stranger or away fan for as much as you want.

In terms of away tickets you can get 4 tickets like you say for £30 each but can’t remember whether you need clarets numbers to purchase all four and they need to be on your friends and family. I know last season you didn’t and you could just order 4 tickets via an email or telephone call and they did not even ask who the other 3 tickets were for. You just received the tickets digitally. This season it’s changed though and you have to do it online via in the priority window you get.

[Leisure]

That’s correct Paul.

For hospitality season tickets the club tried to introduce a transfer ticket online facility too. This was a different function to the ticket exchange facility available to other season ticket holders. This facility was working sporadically for the Sunderland game and it kept on crashing until they eventually withdrew it. Not sure if it’s fixed now as the function still appears to be there on the account menu. What this allows you to do is transfer your home tickets for individual games to a third party who does not need to be a season ticket holder and does not need a clarets number. There’s nothing to stop you selling this ticket to a complete stranger or away fan for as much as you want.

In terms of away tickets you can get 4 tickets like you say for £30 each but can’t remember whether you need clarets numbers to purchase all four and they need to be on your friends and family. I know last season you didn’t and you could just order 4 tickets via an email or telephone call and they did not even ask who the other 3 tickets were for. You just received the tickets digitally. This season it’s changed though and you have to do it online via in the priority window you get.

I understand from someone in hospitality, that when ordering 4 away tickets they don't have to give any info as to who the tickets are for.

[Big Vinny K]

I understand from someone in hospitality, that when ordering 4 away tickets they don't have to give any info as to who the tickets are for.

Yep think that’s correct - only change this year is that you have to order them online yourself whereas last season the hospitality team did it for you.

[Bfc]

Tribesman, re you needing match tickets. If you know Cork Claret Noel Brady, contact him and ask him for my number. Then get in touch with me, to see if I can help solve your need for tickets, as I’ve previously done for Noel.

[Pickles]

I feel as if our club has slept walked straight into this situation and don't seem that fussed about it.

[Big Vinny K]

I feel as if our club has slept walked straight into this situation and don't seem that fussed about it.

Think it’s more a case of them simply not knowing what they are doing…..or at the very least not understanding the potential consequences or risks.
And when these consequences emerge the issue is that our systems and IT team (if you can classify 2 people as a “team”) seem to have no idea how to change things. Even when processes are outsourced to 3rd parties they seem to have little or no clue how to manage their own internal risks and protect the club (as per all the data issues and breaches seen with sending season tickets out)

[Row x]

Think it’s more a case of them simply not knowing what they are doing…..or at the very least not understanding the potential consequences or risks.
And when these consequences emerge the issue is that our systems and IT team (if you can classify 2 people as a “team”) seem to have no idea how to change things. Even when processes are outsourced to 3rd parties they seem to have little or no clue how to manage their own internal risks and protect the club (as per all the data issues and breaches seen with sending season tickets out)

Seems like you're the ideal person to attend the forum with the Chairman and put him right about the issues
Are you putting your name forward?

[Big Vinny K]

Seems like you're the ideal person to attend the forum with the Chairman and put him right about the issues
Are you putting your name forward?

I’ll do that if you hand yourself into the authorities for online stalking

[Row x]

I’ll do that if you hand yourself into the authorities for online stalking

So you post on a messageboard, but dont like it if people reply sensibly, unlike you who jumped on a thread a few days ago just to be abusive

Are you willing to put your name forward or not?...you seem like you're knowledgeable in the field.

[Tribesmen]

Tribesman, re you needing match tickets. If you know Cork Claret Noel Brady, contact him and ask him for my number. Then get in touch with me, to see if I can help solve your need for tickets, as I’ve previously done for Noel.

Thanks bfc , so much going on as to where we will be living next year very hard to make any plans .
Now i would put something up on here if we were coming over .
Again I would like to thank Ralphpom for what he did in the past also , as I know he still reads on here .

[Claret Till I Die]

Thanks bfc , so much going on as to where we will be living next year very hard to make any plans .
Now i would put something up on here if we were coming over .
Again I would like to thank Ralphpom for what he did in the past also , as I know he still reads on here .

Just spoken to Ralph. He says that he lost touch with you when you moved as he only ever had your works email. Do you have his details?

[Tribesmen]

No they are gone , did try his phone but didn't get anything .I still have my Irish phone , I will leave my number up for 20 mins then I will delete it .

[Claret Till I Die]

No they are gone , did try his phone but didn't get anything .I still have my Irish phone , I will leave my number up for 20 mins then I will delete it .

Messaged him with it

[Claret Till I Die]

He'll message you after work

[Tribesmen]

Messaged him with it

Thanks I have asked the mods to delete my number .
Did think i could do it but there you go .

Ohhh thanks its gone

[Paul Waine]

Don't recall ID being required when my daughter bought a membership.

I was thinking ID may be required to get a Clarets number and memberships can only bought by people with Clarets number.

Some how I missed your "buy 4 premium memberships" and then buy 4 away tickets... I don't know, but somewhere along I'd expect there's a risk of hitting limit of numbers of memberships or number of away tickets available to be bought by premium memberships.

[Paul Waine]

That’s correct Paul.

For hospitality season tickets the club tried to introduce a transfer ticket online facility too. This was a different function to the ticket exchange facility available to other season ticket holders. This facility was working sporadically for the Sunderland game and it kept on crashing until they eventually withdrew it. Not sure if it’s fixed now as the function still appears to be there on the account menu. What this allows you to do is transfer your home tickets for individual games to a third party who does not need to be a season ticket holder and does not need a clarets number. There’s nothing to stop you selling this ticket to a complete stranger or away fan for as much as you want.

In terms of away tickets you can get 4 tickets like you say for £30 each but can’t remember whether you need clarets numbers to purchase all four and they need to be on your friends and family. I know last season you didn’t and you could just order 4 tickets via an email or telephone call and they did not even ask who the other 3 tickets were for. You just received the tickets digitally. This season it’s changed though and you have to do it online via in the priority window you get.

I'd expect hospitality is aimed at businesses, so would be strange to limit a business and their guests all needing to be Burnley fans.

Many years ago, mid-80s at a guess, I was a guest in hospitality of a business based in Manchester at a mid-week game at Old Trafford. I've no memory of the game, just that I was a business guest.

[Leisure]

I was thinking ID may be required to get a Clarets number and memberships can only bought by people with Clarets number.

Some how I missed your "buy 4 premium memberships" and then buy 4 away tickets... I don't know, but somewhere along I'd expect there's a risk of hitting limit of numbers of memberships or number of away tickets available to be bought by premium memberships.

That's a very good question!

[Claretnick]

I was thinking ID may be required to get a Clarets number and memberships can only bought by people with Clarets number.

Some how I missed your "buy 4 premium memberships" and then buy 4 away tickets... I don't know, but somewhere along I'd expect there's a risk of hitting limit of numbers of memberships or number of away tickets available to be bought by premium memberships.

No mention of ID being required to create an individual Clarets Account
https://burnleyfc.freshdesk.com/support ... ts-online-

[Plissken]

So no one seeing the irony of a thread about transferring and arranging tickets being used to arrange and transfer tickets?

Anyway ultimately this is always going to happen. I got rushed into hospital yesterday, so my ticket for tomorrow is going on the official exchange. But there is nothing stopping me selling it to someone directly. The only way is to insist on photo ID, which is absolutely unworkable in terms of lengthening entry to the stadium. (I suspect the requirement is a CYA legal one same as for gigs.)

[k90bfc]

If you ask the Chairman about anything he just says,Have A Nice Day ! The Players Portraits removed on the outside of Turf Moor,moving the Home Fans in the stand,to walk a lot longer,disabled Etc,No thought whatsoever,for Life Long Fans,keep making the Money,At All Costs,UTC.

[Row x]

If you ask the Chairman about anything he just says,Have A Nice Day ! The Players Portraits removed on the outside of Turf Moor,moving the Home Fans in the stand,to walk a lot longer,disabled Etc,No thought whatsoever,for Life Long Fans,keep making the Money,At All Costs,UTC.

What have you asked him?

[Walton]

If you ask the Chairman about anything he just says,Have A Nice Day ! The Players Portraits removed on the outside of Turf Moor,moving the Home Fans in the stand,to walk a lot longer,disabled Etc,No thought whatsoever,for Life Long Fans,keep making the Money,At All Costs,UTC.

I've heard those purple player boards were where the inspiration for the Purple Potion kits came from

[Bfc]

Tribesmen, if Ralphpom, can’t help you with tickets, get in touch with CTID, he has my Tel No. At least you may get the opportunity to see more than 1 match a season, if you’ve got more options.

[Tribesmen]

Tribesmen, if Ralphpom, can’t help you with tickets, get in touch with CTID, he has my Tel No. At least you may get the opportunity to see more than 1 match a season, if you’ve got more options.

Thanks lads , like I say everything is up in the air at the moment as not sure where we will be living , I hope to be on track next year 2026 .

[Quickenthetempo]

We seem to have a few ticket touts/scammers on twitter using the hashtag TwitterClarets.

The original Burnley spares account just retweets any clarets selling their ticket.

Just keep reporting any scammers.