Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[ClaretAndJew]

Saw a wannabe football hooligan singing this to the camera on the news wondering how you leave Brexit!? He needs to work on his lyrical content.

I was merely supporting his work mate.

[KateR]

Perhaps you can explain this : "Do you have anything new and inciteful, ...... "

yes I can, quite simply I thought, instead of keep asking the same person the same question numerous times and always looking back and picking on something that is history, what are the thoughts for the future, has the government for example done anything that might be consider good. Plus instead of quoting from the Guardian or even the mail what are the thoughts that your brain comes up with when you read, listen to two sides of a discussion/argument

I hope that helps explain what I was asking.

[KateR]

I'd stick to Swahili or orange juice, Kate...........

"it nails nothing except they are of a group think in which you and many others sit it"

"The TB article nothing more than hot air and beating of chest"

"Neither article offer anything newthat the electoral rejected"

"Do you have anything new and inciteful, "

I mean, really, wtf ?

WTF,
well what it means wobbly Eddie is that I like and understand many of DA's posts, he seems to think and have an opinion a lot of times, however I would say and maybe due to his name on her, he does like to drop grenades into conversations just to see what happens.

Group thinking is never good, dogma worse, then you have the bigots

So was there anything you really wanted to voice, an opinion, an original thought maybe?

[KateR]

These comments from the live stream at Parliament Square are, well, unsettling.

there are always idiots, the few who spoil things for the majority in many aspects of life.

I would never subscribe to any of those comments and believe the majority of people do not either regardless of political affiliations, they are just wrong, very wrong.

[Bullabill]

yes I can, quite simply I thought, instead of keep asking the same person the same question numerous times and always looking back and picking on something that is history, what are the thoughts for the future, has the government for example done anything that might be consider good. Plus instead of quoting from the Guardian or even the mail what are the thoughts that your brain comes up with when you read, listen to two sides of a discussion/argument

I hope that helps explain what I was asking.

Not quite, Kate. I was referring to the word 'inciteful' - homonym or not ?

[evensteadiereddie]

And, on the same subject, I was merely pointing out your shocking command of our language, Kate.
Whatever point you were attempting to make was incoherent and riddled with mistakes.
Very original, I must say !

[Jakubclaret]

WTF,
well what it means wobbly Eddie is that I like and understand many of DA's posts, he seems to think and have an opinion a lot of times, however I would say and maybe due to his name on her, he does like to drop grenades into conversations just to see what happens.

Group thinking is never good, dogma worse, then you have the bigots

So was there anything you really wanted to voice, an opinion, an original thought maybe?

https://images.app.goo.gl/8ZYQoVnF6b2a6BhG6
It would be a lone voice in the wilderness.

[KateR]

Not quite, Kate. I was referring to the word 'inciteful' - homonym or not ?

Yes definitely wrong word, oop's, homonym, mmm I have no idea but I strongly suspect yes!

[KateR]

https://images.app.goo.gl/8ZYQoVnF6b2a6BhG6
It would be a lone voice in the wilderness.

Love the picture, thank you for making me smile

[Jakubclaret]

Love the picture, thank you for making me smile

Was tongue in cheek really, although regarding this subject singing from the same hymn sheet appears to be norm, credit you for encouraging people to independently think, I fear you could have your work cut out

[KateR]

And, on the same subject, I was merely pointing out your shocking command of our language, Kate.
Whatever point you were attempting to make was incoherent and riddled with mistakes.
Very original, I must say !

I like the originality thought, thank you and please accept my apologies for my mistakes, but I think you know what I was trying to say, I promise I will try to do better though

I am the chairperson of the DNA club though

[aggi]

I see that Johnson is still denying that there'll be customs checks which is making it a bit awkward for those trying to implement the customs checks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51351677

[TheFamilyCat]

I see that Johnson is still denying that there'll be customs checks which is making it a bit awkward for those trying to implement the customs checks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/businsess-51351677

He's won the election, we've left the EU - he does know he can stop lying now doesn't he?

[Bin Ont Turf]

But it's not supposed to happen......

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... event-hard

[Cryssys]

Boris the democrat, the man of the people who only wants to brief selected press cronies.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dance.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 14996.html

Well done to everyone for walking out.

[Devils_Advocate]

But it's not supposed to happen......

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... event-hard

Did you read past the headline you wally

A spokesman for Nissan Europe said: "We deny such a contingency plan exists.

"We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs.

"We continue to urge UK and EU negotiators to work collaboratively towards an orderly balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade."

[Bin Ont Turf]

Let me call my next witness, a 'spokesman'.

Right out of the Daily Star or Sun is that. A spokesman.

[Spiral]

Can anyone just change the thread titles?

[TheFamilyCat]

You're right. Give quiche a chance.

[aggi]

Looks like No Deal has been replaced with "an Australia type deal" (Australia don't actually have a trade deal with the EU). Clearly someone has decided that the optics are better using that phrasing.

[Jakubclaret]

Looks like No Deal has been replaced with "an Australia type deal" (Australia don't actually have a trade deal with the EU). Clearly someone has decided that the optics are better using that phrasing.

A Canadian style arrangement is the desired outcome, preferably with a more relaxed approach to banking.

[AndrewJB]

A Canadian style arrangement is the desired outcome, preferably with a more relaxed approach to banking.

Do we still hold all the cards in the negotiations?

[Jakubclaret]

Do we still hold all the cards in the negotiations?

So far to a certain degree BJs displayed a firm stance with the requests & pledged promises which have been delivered, nothing to worry about it's the EU being arsey because we've left, in the coming days everything will be clearer. The people in Sunderland who voted leave won't be regretting it if nissan are true to there word.

[Zlatan]

So far to a certain degree BJs displayed a firm stance with the requests & pledged promises which have been delivered, nothing to worry about it's the EU being arsey because we've left, in the coming days everything will be clearer. The people in Sunderland who voted leave won't be regretting it if nissan are true to there word.

I don’t understand this comment - Nissan have been very clear that Brexit is a massive issue for them and that they cannot stay in the UK under WTO tariffs...

'We've modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business, both in the UK and in Europe, is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs.'

[aggi]

I don’t understand this comment - Nissan have been very clear that Brexit is a massive issue for them and that they cannot stay in the UK under WTO tariffs...

I think he wants them to be true to the rumour in the FT about focusing on the UK at the expense of Europe rather than their actual word from their spokesman.

[Jakubclaret]

I don’t understand this comment - Nissan have been very clear that Brexit is a massive issue for them and that they cannot stay in the UK under WTO tariffs...

The recent news emerging is that nissan are ready to pull out of the EU & shut the France & Barcelona operations down & expand into the UK if the EU impose trade tariffs export wise, I can post half a dozen articles or so supporting my post, whether true or not I can't be 100% but that's what people are saying.

[Zlatan]

The recent news emerging is that nissan are ready to pull out of the EU & shut the France & Barcelona operations down & expand into the UK if the EU impose trade tariffs export wise, I can post half a dozen articles or so supporting my post, whether true or not I can't be 100% but that's what people are saying.

I see the confusion now - I suppose it depends on which "echo chamber" you exist in on Social media - most reports I read were stating that Nissan were definitely leaving the UK and not the other way around. I can understand from the statement I posted above that it could be interpreted either way.

[Jakubclaret]

I see the confusion now - I suppose it depends on which "echo chamber" you exist in on Social media - most reports I read were stating that Nissan were definitely leaving the UK and not the other way around. I can understand from the statement I posted above that it could be interpreted either way.

It stems from Nissan wanting to increase the market share a jump from 4% to 20%, if true it’s undeniably good news for the UK & a massive boost for the people of Sunderland.

[dsr]

You can be fairly sure that if the EU insists on WTO tariffs, causing the price of imported cars in the UK to jump by 10% on top of the already-applying price increase caused by the fall in the pound over the last 3 years; then Nissan will see a huge opportunity to increase sales of UK-built cars in the UK. They won't be rushing to get out.

[Devils_Advocate]

if the EU insists on WTO tariffs

[aggi]

You can be fairly sure that if the EU insists on WTO tariffs, causing the price of imported cars in the UK to jump by 10% on top of the already-applying price increase caused by the fall in the pound over the last 3 years; then Nissan will see a huge opportunity to increase sales of UK-built cars in the UK. They won't be rushing to get out.

Get with the program DSR, that's the Australia deal nowadays.

[aggi]

A Canadian style arrangement is the desired outcome, preferably with a more relaxed approach to banking.

Maybe, but there have been lots of noises in the past few days about no deal. It is of course possible that it is all just negotiation bumf, we shall see.

[martin_p]

You can be fairly sure that if the EU insists on WTO tariffs, causing the price of imported cars in the UK to jump by 10% on top of the already-applying price increase caused by the fall in the pound over the last 3 years; then Nissan will see a huge opportunity to increase sales of UK-built cars in the UK. They won't be rushing to get out.

That depends on whether the car parts are manufactured in the U.K. I guess. If they’re not they’ll have to put the price of their cars up anyway the offset tariffs on imported parts.

[RMutt]

I see Johnson, Cummings and co. Are doing their best to unify the country by banning left leaning journalists from a briefing yesterday. No doubt they have picked up some tips from the way Trump operates with regard to the media. Of course to the many on here who don’t hold the view that media bias can win elections it will not be a worry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... porter-ban

[RingoMcCartney]

I see Johnson, Cummings and co. Are doing their best to unify the country by banning left leaning journalists from a briefing yesterday. No doubt they have picked up some tips from the way Trump operates with regard to the media. Of course to the many on here who don’t hold the view that media bias can win elections it will not be a worry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... porter-ban

Report by Civitas.

Pro-Brexit voices drowned out in BBC news programmes, new analysis shows

Pro-Brexit views have been under-represented on flagship BBC news programmes for decades, a new report published today by Civitas shows. While a large section of the population have long supported the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, and a majority voted for it in 2016, their views have been heavily marginalised in the Corporation’s news output.

For instance, of 4,275guests talking about the EU on BBC Radio 4’s flagship Today programme between 2005 and 2015, only 132 (3.2 per cent) were supporters of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.

In 274 hours of monitored BBC EU coverage between 2002 and 2017, only 14 speakers (0.2 per cent of the total) were left-wing advocates for leaving the EU. These 14 contributors delivered 1,680 words, adding up to approximately 12 minutes. During the same period, two strongly pro-EU Conservatives, Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine, made between them 28 appearances, with contributions totalling 11,208 words – over nine times the amount of airtime allocated to all left-wing withdrawalists.

There has been a determined reluctance to even probe the question as to whether Britain should leave the EU. Between 2005 and 2011, when UKIP had 12 seats in the European Parliament,only 20 questions about actually leaving the EU were posed in 1,073 surveyed editions of Today. So there was an average of one question on withdrawal for every 54 editions, or for every 153 programme hours.

These findings are drawn from a sequential analysis of the News-watch reports dating back to 1999. Since the European Parliament elections of that year News-watch has compiled 38 mainly half-yearly reports, based on 8,000 programme transcripts covering almost 300 hundred hours of EU content.

The bias has continued after the vote for Brexit. A month of the Today Programme in October and November 2017 carried 97 interviews on EU topics, but only nine were with long term supporters of Brexit.

The authors, David Keighley and Andrew Jubb, write:

“When opinion in favour of leaving the EU has featured, the editorial approach has – at the expense of exploring withdrawal itself – tended heavily towards discrediting and denigrating opposition to the EU as xenophobic, and to cast those who supported it as incompetent and venal.

“The overview provided here is a shocking indictment of the BBC’s failure to achieve impartiality, and in particular to incorporate the views of those who desired to leave the EU into its news output. Despite frequent requests to the Chairman and Director General of the BBC from a cross-party group of MPs concerned about BBC bias, the Corporation has been unable to provide a single programme that has examined the opportunities of Brexit. And we cannot find one either.

“The corporation is impervious to all complaints in this domain. It may well be that in the face of this lofty intransigence, something more radical – such as a Judicial Review of the complaints process – might be the only way forward.”




https://www.civitas.org.uk/press/pro-br ... sis-shows/

[Jakubclaret]

Maybe, but there have been lots of noises in the past few days about no deal. It is of course possible that it is all just negotiation bumf, we shall see.

It wouldn't bother if it was a no deal my views have been expressed regarding some of the benefits a no deal could potentially bring, some of us voted leave wishing a hard brexit & despite all the negativity & doom forecasts that opinion hasn't changed, a minority in the leave camp exists believing in a complete independent UK thriving on WTO terms & becoming more self sufficient.

[TheFamilyCat]

It wouldn't bother if it was a no deal my views have been expressed regarding some of the benefits a no deal could potentially bring, some of us voted leave wishing a hard brexit & despite all the negativity & doom forecasts that opinion hasn't changed, a minority in the leave camp exists believing in a complete independent UK thriving on WTO terms & becoming more self sufficient.

Yes, but it is the same minority who also want be turned into an ice pop when they die.

[RMutt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civitas_(think_tank)

[RingoMcCartney]

Fabulous! Sovereignty, independence and self determination!

UK takes its OWN seat at WTO table for first time in historic moment for Brexit Britain

"This is an historic moment which will give us an independent voice at the WTO for the first time since its inception"

Lizz Truss


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12376 ... lizz-truss

[Tall Paul]

You can be fairly sure that if the EU insists on WTO tariffs, causing the price of imported cars in the UK to jump by 10% on top of the already-applying price increase caused by the fall in the pound over the last 3 years; then Nissan will see a huge opportunity to increase sales of UK-built cars in the UK. They won't be rushing to get out.

How can the EU insist on our import tariffs? I thought we were taking back control.

[dsr]

How can the EU insist on our import tariffs? I thought we were taking back control.

Are you suggesting that we should abolish import tariffs on vehicles while allowing the EU to insist on tariffs on our exports? We still do have that choice, but it would be madness to apply it.

Or did you think that the trade deal would be entirely on the UK's terms? Not so. If the EU doesn't want free trade, we can't insist.

[aggi]

Snip

https://www.civitas.org.uk/press/pro-br ... sis-shows/

This is the actual report http://news-watch.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... ration.pdf

It's clearly not an academic paper, it uses emotive language and is titled The Brussels Broadcasting Corporation

Unsurprisingly there is also a paper that says the bias goes the other way https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... report.pdf

I wouldn't be surprised if there were elements of bias both ways. For a long time Brexit was so tied in with Farage that other leave politicians were probably under-represented. On the other hand, Farage appeared on TV a lot for a politician representing a party with no seats.

I can understand why it has been difficult for the BBC to present positive outcomes for Brexit. They all tend to be pretty nebulous (taking back control, regaining our sovereignty) compared to the negatives which have been more quantifiable (drop in growth of x%).

[Tall Paul]

Are you suggesting that we should abolish import tariffs on vehicles while allowing the EU to insist on tariffs on our exports? We still do have that choice, but it would be madness to apply it.

Or did you think that the trade deal would be entirely on the UK's terms? Not so. If the EU doesn't want free trade, we can't insist.

No, to both questions.

[RingoMcCartney]

This is the actual report http://news-watch.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... ration.pdf

It's clearly not an academic paper, it uses emotive language and is titled The Brussels Broadcasting Corporation

Unsurprisingly there is also a paper that says the bias goes the other way https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... report.pdf

I wouldn't be surprised if there were elements of bias both ways. For a long time Brexit was so tied in with Farage that other leave politicians were probably under-represented. On the other hand, Farage appeared on TV a lot for a politician representing a party with no seats.

I can understand why it has been difficult for the BBC to present positive outcomes for Brexit. They all tend to be pretty nebulous (taking back control, regaining our sovereignty) compared to the negatives which have been more quantifiable (drop in growth of x%).

Youd have thought youd have learnt your lesson by now aggi.

Basing your opinion on predictions that, pretty much all, have been shown, by the passage of time to be just that. Predictions, that failed to materialise.

Emergency budget the morning after a vote to leave

Tax increase of around 4000 per annum for individuals.

Stock market crash.

Housing market crash

Water shortage.

Medicine shortages

Upto 850,000 extra unemployed within 18 months of a vote to Leave.

An "immediate and protracted recession"

Planes unable to take off and land.

45,000 dairy cows to be slaughtered in Ireland.

Siemans , the massive German engineering company to relocate following brexit.

Food shortages.

Nissan to shut Sunderland.

"Confidence in the British economy will evaporate overnight, should we vote to leave " former chancellor of the exchequer, Labour's Alistair darling. June 2016

"A vote to leave will be like putting a nuclear bomb under the UK economy" David Cameron june 2016

This was all "quantifiable" . We've left . It did not happen.

[RingoMcCartney]

IEA analysis shows systemic bias against ‘Leave’ supporters on flagship BBC political programmes — Institute of Economic Affairs

IEA releases analysis revealing Brexit bias on flagship political programmes

A new analysis of nearly 600 panellists on two key BBC programmes has found that Leave supporters have been badly under-represented since the referendum.

The Institute of Economic affairs undertook an analysis of the composition of panels for Any Questions and Question Time from June 2016 to December 2017. Whilst on most metrics, there does not appear to be any substantial political or philosophical bias, on one issue a fairly systemic and long-term imbalance is clear: the stance of panellists on Britain’s membership of the EU.

Balancing on the basis of whether panellists voted for Remain or Leave, both programmes favour Remain by about 68% to 32%.

Even if you were to re-categorise Remainers who are now supporting Brexit from the government benches into the Leave column, the balance is still 60% to 40% in favour of Remain.

Key findings:



Of 281 Question Time panellists over the 18 month period, 60% were Remain supporters, 31% Brexit supporters and the remaining 9% ‘Releavers’.

Of 297 Any Questions panellists in the same period, 59% supported remain, 32% supported Brexit, and 10% were ‘Releavers’.

Given the referendum result was 52% for Leave, this cohort does seem to be badly under-represented on both programmes. The analysis looked at 578 panellists across a prolonged period of time, indicating a systemic bias.

The imbalance on the two programmes is substantial, consistent and at odds with public opinion. The analysis reveals a two to one bias in favour of those who voted for Remain.

Brexit is probably the most defining issue of the UK policy debate at present and as such should be vital in balance. For the vast majority of both programmes, Brexit has been the most dominant issue discussed on both programmes. Both shows appear to accept the predominance of Brexit as an issue, but by the selection of panellists seem to attach a low priority to balancing the panel on the topic.




https://iea.org.uk/media/iea-analysis-s ... rogrammes/

[RMutt]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institu ... ic_Affairs

[RingoMcCartney]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institu ... ic_Affairs

Oh I see. Seeing as the IEA is seen a "right wing" their fact based opinion that remain voting panelists outnumbered leave voting by 2 to 1 on the BBCs flagship political discussion programme, is deemed totally wrong and irrelevant.

Fair enough.


Doesn't change the fact we've left though does it.!?

[RingoMcCartney]

BBC accused of Question Time bias after switching broadcast from Leave-voting Bolton to Dulwich


The BBC has been accused of anti-Brexit bias after moving Thursday's Question Time show from Brexit-voting Bolton to Dulwich, South London, which is a hotbed of Remain voters.

Many on social media said the move to London ensured a pro-EU audience, and the panel was majority Remainer.

Local Labour MPs Rachel Reeves and Lisa Nandy have written to the BBC, and said: "Dulwich and West Norwood voted more than 70 per cent to remain, while the Bolton constituencies voted almost 60 per cent to leave.

"Given that the panellists were largely from London, we think the nation might have benefited from some non-London centric views on the programme."


Twitter users agreed, with one writing: "BBC propaganda in full flow tonight. Disgraceful. #Questiontime Moved to remain heartlands in London from Bolton. 1 leaver on the panel and 4 remain."

Another said: "Question Time was going to be in Bolton tonight - it's been moved to London because of Brexit. Hmmmm a panel of remainers AND an audience of remainers. Well played #bbcqt".

The panel was made up of four Remain voters - left-wing journalist Ash Sarkar, Labour MP for Tottenham David Lammy, Mairead McGuinness Vice President of the European Parliament and Conservative culture secretary Jeremy Wright.


The only panelist who supported Brexit in the referendum was Telegraph columnist and former editor Charles Moore.

He raised this during the show, asking presenter Fiona Bruce: “Can I ask you a question, Fiona? Because here I am and I am delighted and honoured to be here, but there is a panel of five and I am the only Leave supporter.”

Ms Bruce cut in saying: “You’re the only person who voted Leave, you mean?”

He replied: “I believe I am the only Leave supporter as well as a matter of fact, we can argue about that, but I am certainly the only person who voted Leave.

“And again and again on this programme, the balance totally fails to reflect the wider country."

A BBC spokesperson rejected accusations of bias, and said in a statement: "The decision was taken at the start of the week when it was extremely unclear when and if crucial Brexit votes would be taking place.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... ve-voting/

[RMutt]

Oh I see. Seeing as the IEA is seen a "right wing" their fact based opinion that remain voting panelists outnumbered leave voting by 2 to 1 on the BBCs flagship political discussion programme, is deemed totally wrong and irrelevant.

Fair enough.


Doesn't change the fact we've left though does it.!?

Ultimately newspapers have a right to print pretty much what they want. It’s a shame that most are owned by a few very wealthy individuals who make sure that reporting is biased towards their world view. I suspect the numbers influenced by the red tops far outweighs those who watch Question Time or listen to the Today programme.

There is a difference when the government itself starts to decide who it will brief and who it will exclude from briefings. This from the party that banned a Mirror journalist from its battle bus, who have stopped ministers appearing on the Today radio programme and who have still, not yet, let us see the report into Russian influence on elections. I’m pointing out that this government is very quickly trying to control the release of information in a way not seen before.

As for my links, they are just to point out that the views the organisations you chose as examples are not themselves going to be necessarily free from bias.

[aggi]

Snip

I didn't say whether or not it was accurate, I just said it was quantifiable.