Covid-19

[thatdberight]

Again in this post, you say things that no one has said, just to try and justify your angry responses. He didn't say any of the stuff you quote above, so why are you suggesting he mat have done?

Well, if you supply a link to the conversation rather than one sentence you remember "almost" word for word, I'd be in a better position to understand it. But you don't seem to have one.

[Gordaleman]

I can't find that quote although I'd agree with it and gave done repeatedly. Flu, due to immunity and vaccines, has no more capacity to kill people than the 17,000 a year that it does (average last 5 seasons).

That can't be said about this current problem.

How convenient for you that you can't find the quote. You find everything else.

So now YOU are the expert eh? What justification have you got for your statement above? You don't KNOW what Covid-19 may do. None of us do. All I have ever said about Flu is that it kills 650,000 people worldwide EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Covid-19 has killed a mere 4,000 so far EVER. It has a lot of catching up to do.

The fact that governments are taking certain actions, has nothing whatever to do with those FACTS.

[Gordaleman]

Well, if you supply a link to the conversation rather than one sentence you remember "almost" word for word, I'd be in a better position to understand it. But you don't seem to have one.

Is that your 'Get out clause'? You didn't see it, so it must be wrong? So far as I'm aware there is no link but that's because it was a live broadcast. It's not my fault you don't watch the news.

Neither does it give you the right to continually say I have said certain other things, that I haven't. If anyone is a liar here, it's you.

[uptheclarets]

Who's "got it right" time after time? Which posters?

A poster called Paul seems to have called must things right from the start, lowbank another

[thatdberight]

How convenient for you that you can't find the quote. You find everything else.

So now YOU are the expert eh? What justification have you got for your statement above? You don't KNOW what Covid-19 may do. None of us do. All I have ever said about Flu is that it kills 650,000 people worldwide EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Covid-19 has killed a mere 4,000 so far EVER. It has a lot of catching up to do.

The fact that governments are taking certain actions, has nothing whatever to do with those FACTS.

I confess your use of BLOCK CAPITALS has me stumped. Great debating.

We've been through this countless times. I've given you the data and views of people who know what they're talking about. You're not interested. It seems the views of experts, fortunately, carry a little more weight with the medical community and governments around the world who are taking action to mitigate the serious problem this virus causes.

[Gordaleman]

A poster called Paul seems to have called must things right from the start, lowbank another

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, that's so funny.

I guess you're in the Armageddon camp then?

[thatdberight]

A poster called Paul seems to have called must things right from the start, lowbank another

Is this LowBank who said it's a biological weapon created by the Chinese government to control their own population numbers? Or another LowBank?

[Gordaleman]

I confess your use of BLOCK CAPITALS has me stumped. Great debating.

We've been through this countless times. I've given you the data and views of people who know what they're talking about. You're not interested. It seems the views of experts, fortunately, carry a little more weight with the medical community and governments around the world who are taking action to mitigate the serious problem this virus causes.

Using CAPITALS is for emphasis, as you don't seem to notice some of the words I write. However, you are quick enough to quote words I haven't written and attribute them to me.

All the figures I have quoted have been from EXPERTS or government sources. I just don't see any point in repeating the extemist, or isolated quotes of one or two people, as there is enough panic already and I don't want to create even more.

[thatdberight]

.. as there is enough panic already and I don't want to create even more.

I agree. But saying this isn't a serious issue that requires serious action is just the opposite.

[Zlatan]

the problem for those of us who are pragmatic about this is this:

If the government do nothing people will die - it's Armageddon
If the government do something, people will still die - it's Armageddon (especially so because the government did something)
There is no way of proving either way (at this stage) whether the reaction is an over reaction or not, so people will err on the side of caution mainly because of the mass media fear and hysteria - it's Armageddon

People will die, and so far in this country (and I also believe in most other countries too) that this mainly affects people who are old or have underlying health conditions (I am one of these for the record). The question I ask is this:

If an 82 year old man with Parkinson's and chronic heart failure dies because he contracts Covid-19, what is his death attributed to? Parkinson's; Chronic Heart failure; or Covid-19? I ask because the likelihood that he would die this year is close to 80-90% anyway, but because he caught Covid-19 that gets the "credit" and all these death rates are massively affected by this.

When you consider this, I maintain my original opinion that Covid-19 is not too dissimilar to influenza in that it can cause those with underlying health issues to be affected, and the fact that there is no current vaccine is the reason that it is deemed an issue.

[Gordaleman]

I agree. But saying this isn't a serious issue that requires serious action is just the opposite.

There you go again, misquoting me. Right from the start I have said that the situation is serious, but at the same time, I have put it in context by comparing the death figures with Flu. I have never said it was the same as Flu, as infectios as Flu or any of the many other things I have been misquoted on by the doomsters and yourself.

Do you realise that spreading misinformation like that, only adds to the worry?

[thatdberight]

There you go again, misquoting me. Right from the start I have said that the situation is serious, but at the same time, I have put it in context by comparing the death figures with Flu. I have never said it was the same as Flu, as infectios as Flu or any of the many other things I have been misquoted on by the doomsters and yourself.

Do you realise that spreading misinformation like that, only adds to the worry?

This virus running through our population without serious measures to mitigate this is much more serious than a normal flu season. That's the science.

[NottsClaret]

I'm only following this thread to see if thatdberight or Gordaleman gets it first.

[Gordaleman]

This virus running through our population without serious measures to mitigate this is much more serious than a normal flu season. That's the science.

Is that your opinion, or the real science?

Backtracking a bit now aren't you? You still haven't apologised for misquoting me, have you?

So you are privy to all the measures being taken by governmet are you. To be honest, I think Boris Johnson's competency in this is woeful. All he does is bluff and bluster his way through. However, fortunately we have other people to do the job properly and yesterday they fully explained their decisions not to close airports and not to shut down large gatherings like football matches. The science that you like so much suggests that it would be almost totally ineffective at this time.

[tim_noone]

I'm only following this thread to see if thatdberight or Gordaleman gets it first.

[Gordaleman]

I'm only following this thread to see if thatdberight or Gordaleman gets it first.

It will probably be neither, but assuming that thatedberight is healthy, it will probably be me, because I'm definitely in the high risk groups.

And I'm still not panicking.

[thatdberight]

Is that your opinion, or the real science?

Backtracking a bit now aren't you? You still haven't apologised for misquoting me, have you?

So you are privy to all the measures being taken by governmet are you. To be honest, I think Boris Johnson's competency in this is woeful. All he does is bluff and bluster his way through. However, fortunately we have other people to do the job properly and yesterday they fully explained their decisions not to close airports and not to shut down large gatherings like football matches. The science that you like so much suggests that it would be almost totally ineffective at this time.

I never mentioned government measures. In fact I specifically excluded.

Just another example of you flailing about grabbing half an argument from here, a bit of a comment from there, a misconstrued stat from elsewhere. And then you go on some rant about closing football grounds presumably, as you've admitted you've done before, finding it hard to keep up with which posters have said what.

[tim_noone]

While the whole episode looks serious...it takes peoples attention away from Babies and young children being blown up in syria and the middle East...and migrants being treated Appallingly on the Greek Border.

[Zlatan]

It will probably be neither, but assuming that thatedberight is healthy, it will probably be me, because I'm definitely in the high risk groups.

And I'm still not panicking.

your chances of contracting this virus are not dependant upon your health or age, given similar environments everyone has a fairly equal chance of contracting it. How it affects you as an individual is dependant upon your health and age etc.

[Zlatan]

While the whole episode looks serious...it takes peoples attention away from Babies and young children being blown up in syria and the middle East...and migrants being treated Appallingly on the Greek Border.

It's got to be something more than that though Tim... that was all happening before anyway... I'm thinking that something is happening on the Turkey/Syria border that no one wants us to notice...

[Gordaleman]

I never mentioned government measures. In fact I specifically excluded.

Just another example of you flailing about grabbing half an argument from here, a bit of a comment from there, a misconstrued stat from elsewhere. And then you go on some rant about closing football grounds presumably, as you've admitted you've done before, finding it hard to keep up with which posters have said what.

Oh, so quoting what was said by Britain's Chief Medical Officer and the Chief scientific Officer at yesterday's news conference is a rant is it? Perhaps you rather hear from the lady in the supermarket or the man in the street?

Still no apology from you for lying about what I have said.

You probably mean well but your credibility is dimished when you don't accept that you've been wrong to misquote me. Going off at a tangent, to try and hide that fact is not very helpful.

[thatdberight]

Oh, so quoting what was said by Britain's Chief Medical Officer and the Chief scientific Officer at yesterday's news conference is a rant is it? Perhaps you rather hear from the lady in the supermarket or the man in the street?

I'd rather hear from the veteran of the 1989 flu who you were quoting last week.

[Zlatan]

I'm only following this thread to see if thatdberight or Gordaleman gets it first.

are we going to have a sweepstake on who on this forum gets it first... my money is on me... just had news that an individual who has been in close proximity to my other half (same room) has contracted it in Italy and returned to the UK last week. Only just gone down with it, but I am still not worried about Armageddon...

[Gordaleman]

By the way, active cases in China have fallen from yesterday's figure of 18,898 to 17,512, so that's good news isn't it? New deaths are 17, but most of those will have contracted the virus sone time ago.

Total active cases worldwide is 46,321, up slightly from 44,823 yesterday. That's 14.7 people per million, or one in 68,027.

Meanwhile,people on here said that the western world would not accept the draconian measures imposed by China, yet Italy has closed down the entire country. Something China never did.

[Zlatan]

By the way, active cases in China have fallen from yesterday's figure of 18,898 to 17,512, so that's good news isn't it? New deaths are 17, but most of those will have contracted the virus sone time ago.

Meanwhile,people on here said that the western world would not accept the draconian measures imposed by China, yet Italy has closed down the entire country. Something China never did.

I think that the China shutdown was of a similar order of magnitude though

[Gordaleman]

I'd rather hear from the veteran of the 1989 flu who you were quoting last week.

If I did, it certainly wasn't to make a 'Scientific' point about the current situation.

Pehaps you can retrive the quote, because I'm not wasting time looking for it.

[Gordaleman]

I think that the China shutdown was of a similar order of magnitude though

Yes, you're right about the numbers but Italy has closed just about everything. China didn't do that.

It will be interesting to see if other countries follow suit.

By the way, I've added a bit more to the post you quoted. "Total active cases worldwide is 46,321, up slightly from 44,823 yesterday. That's 14.7 people per million, or one in 68,027."

[Gordaleman]

BBC today.

President Xi Jinping has visited Wuhan, the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, sending a message that Beijing has the situation under control.

His visit comes as China records its lowest number of infections, just 19 on Tuesday, all in Wuhan apart from two who had arrived from overseas.

There have been 80,754 confirmed cases in mainland China and 3,136 people have died.

The visit was Mr Xi's first trip to Wuhan since the outbreak began.

According to state media, Mr Xi arrived in the city on Tuesday to inspect epidemic prevention and control work in the province.

Wuhan and its province, Hubei, have been on lockdown in order to prevent the spread of the disease. The president visited a community in the city currently in self-quarantine.

Global Times quoted analysts as saying Mr Xi's visit sent a "strong signal to the entire country and the world that China is ascending out of the darkest moment amid the outbreak".

[Gordaleman]

the problem for those of us who are pragmatic about this is this:

If the government do nothing people will die - it's Armageddon
If the government do something, people will still die - it's Armageddon (especially so because the government did something)
There is no way of proving either way (at this stage) whether the reaction is an over reaction or not, so people will err on the side of caution mainly because of the mass media fear and hysteria - it's Armageddon

People will die, and so far in this country (and I also believe in most other countries too) that this mainly affects people who are old or have underlying health conditions (I am one of these for the record). The question I ask is this:

If an 82 year old man with Parkinson's and chronic heart failure dies because he contracts Covid-19, what is his death attributed to? Parkinson's; Chronic Heart failure; or Covid-19? I ask because the likelihood that he would die this year is close to 80-90% anyway, but because he caught Covid-19 that gets the "credit" and all these death rates are massively affected by this.

When you consider this, I maintain my original opinion that Covid-19 is not too dissimilar to influenza in that it can cause those with underlying health issues to be affected, and the fact that there is no current vaccine is the reason that it is deemed an issue.

Strange isn't it, that when you say that Covid-19 is not too dissimilar to influenza, that thatedberight 'Likes' your post. Yet when I quote things like that, he goes berserk. I wonder why?

[ClaretTony]

Nottingham Forest and Olympiacos owner Evangelos Marinakis has confirmed he's got Coronavirus - he was at Forest's game last Friday.

[Gordaleman]

Nottingham Forest and Olympiacos owner Evangelos Marinakis has confirmed he's got Coronavirus - he was at Forest's game last Friday.

And no doubt more people will get it Tony, but he is just one person. The fact that he's connected to football is a bit of a side issue.

[Grumps]

A poster called Paul seems to have called must things right from the start, lowbank another

Not sure paulatky has got anything right yet

[Zlatan]

Strange isn't it, that when you say that Covid-19 is not too dissimilar to influenza, that thatedberight 'Likes' your post. Yet when I quote things like that, he goes berserk. I wonder why?

perhaps you've both lost sight of the important issues and descended into arguing about who is "right" and who said what. Sometimes it's best to let it go as I did with Lowbank. I made my point and reiterated it a few times but he wouldn't listen or change, so I left it alone.

[ClaretAndJew]

This time next week, everyone will have it.

[thatdberight]

are we going to have a sweepstake on who on this forum gets it first... my money is on me... just had news that an individual who has been in close proximity to my other half (same room) has contracted it in Italy and returned to the UK last week. Only just gone down with it, but I am still not worried about Armageddon...

Fingers crossed for you (and everyone else). It's still likely to pass most of us by.

[Zlatan]

Fingers crossed for you (and everyone else). It's still likely to pass most of us by.

Thanks.

Bloke in the office has the view that the sooner we all get it the better, part of me is inclined to agree

[FactualFrank]

It's surely unlikely that everybody will get it. Not unless people can pass it on even after they have recovered, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Jakubclaret]

Who's "got it right" time after time? Which posters?

If you go through all the posts it's easy to see who's generally speaking sense with some form of middle ground as opposed to the 2 extremes 1, of being blaise & another ultra concerned, just level headed posters who more often than not haven't been a million miles away with the ongoing developments, I've already mentioned 1 poster in my earlier post.

[FactualFrank]

If all the crying at each other was removed, the thread would be 3-5 pages, not 35.

[Gordaleman]

perhaps you've both lost sight of the important issues and descended into arguing about who is "right" and who said what. Sometimes it's best to let it go as I did with Lowbank. I made my point and reiterated it a few times but he wouldn't listen or change, so I left it alone.

All I've tried to do on here is calm people down mate but some people have their own over the top agenda.

If thatedberight stops lying about what I've said, I'll leave him alone.

[tim_noone]

If all the crying at each other was removed, the thread would be 3-5 pages, not 35.

Olympiakos owner has it now....

[Jakubclaret]

If all the crying at each other was removed, the thread would be 3-5 pages, not 35.

That as well, take away the point scoring & drill to the core, more reliable information would exist instead of wind.

[Gordaleman]

This time next week, everyone will have it.

Really? Even those that have already recovered?

[thatdberight]

Thanks.

Bloke in the office has the view that the sooner we all get it the better, part of me is inclined to agree

I certainly think that if the measures don't work as well as hoped and we end up in a poor situation, those that get it in the peak will wish they'd had it first. The Italian healthcare system has struggled the longer it's gone on on the evidence of a number of their clinicians.

[thatdberight]

All I've tried to do on here is calm people down mate but some people have their own over the top agenda.

If thatedberight stops lying about what I've said, I'll leave him alone.

Show me the lie you perceive and I'll let you know.

[Gordaleman]

Show me the lie you perceive and I'll let you know.

I've been pointing them out to you for the last few days but you just choose to ignore them, so now I'll take zlatan's advice and just ignore YOU until you have the guts to apologise.

[Jakubclaret]

Show me the lie you perceive and I'll let you know.

There you go FF no more than 120 seconds later, point proven, instead of research & staying abreast of ongoing developments.

[thatdberight]

If you go through all the posts it's easy to see who's generally speaking sense with some form of middle ground as opposed to the 2 extremes 1, of being blaise & another ultra concerned, just level headed posters who more often than not haven't been a million miles away with the ongoing developments, I've already mentioned 1 poster in my earlier post.

Paulatky has said a number of things that were right and, to be fair to him, has been one of the few willing to quantify things. He's sometimes slipped into quite a bit of exaggeration (in my view) but some of the people having a pop at him are people who won't quantify what they think will happen. So they can't be wrong other than that the tenor of their contributions

[Gordaleman]

The decision to delay closing schools and introduce other strict measures to combat coronavirus has been defended by England's deputy chief medical officer.

Dr Jenny Harries said experts are assessing new cases on an hourly basis to achieve a "balanced response".

She told BBC Breakfast new measures could follow as UK cases begin to rise rapidly over the next two weeks.

In the UK, five people with the virus have died. There were 319 confirmed cases as of 09:00 GMT on Monday.

Dr Harries said the vast majority of those diagnosed with coronavirus in Britain are "pretty well" but that they may "feel a bit rough for a few days".

She added that people with flu-like symptoms will be advised to self-isolate within 10 to 14 days and, at the same time, significant increases in the number of cases are likely to begin.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."



That's good then. We might get to see the end of the football season and a lot of little clubs won't go out of business due to cash flow problems.

[thatdberight]

There you go FF no more than 120 seconds later, point proven, instead of research & staying abreast of ongoing developments.

OK. Poland cancels all mass events. Austria too. Spanish football goes "behind closed doors". A few snippets today.