Covid-19

[RingoMcCartney]

Newspapers owned by billionaires advocate for policies that benefit the rich. They act as propaganda for the Tory Party, which looks after the interests of the rich. These papers have all been attacked to a greater or lesser degree in the recent Leveson Inquiry, where it came out that many papers were breaking the law - hacking phones, bribing police, one paper was shut down, and then the Tory Party shut the inquiry down before it could consider more serious concerns - again looking after the interests or the rich men who support the party. The Guardian wasn’t dragged into all of this. Why do the rightwing rags feed readers biased nonsense? Because they and the government collude in the interests of themselves - the rich.

Who owns the Guardian, and in whose interests do they write “biased” articles? There is nobody - no group, no person set to gain from the editorial stance of the Guardian / Observer. Just as it’s funded by a wide variety of people, it acts in the interests of a wide variety of people. It is not spinning for rich spivs - and that is our choice, between right wing propaganda, or news.

If carlsberg did quotes by biased people, who are way too smart to read a biased newspaper.

[CombatClaret]

sun.jpg (740.86 KiB) Viewed 3837 times

[thatdberight]

sun.jpg

The first of those is a fairly neutral report on a University of Southampton piece of research which showed a linkage between patient satisfaction and whether nurses were "home grown". If anything (and it's not like you to miss a chance) it's the government's failure to bring through our own nurses that you should be going for on that one.

[Devils_Advocate]

I haven't seen any reasonable counter arguments on here to the opinion Andrew puts forward and the response just seems to be along the lines of saying he is brainwashed, biased and spreading left wing propaganda

I would be interested in seeing someone challenge and counter his views with facts, info, evidence and genuine opinions rather than just name calling and deflection and Im sure Andrew would welcome a serious discussion himself

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo,
sorry but it's not helpful, I would prefer to stick with simple things, am just asking if when the UK readers open the Guardian, do they get a political statement like the one I showed for the US or a similar political statement for the UK. Also would be interested if when any international Claret fan from the forum saw a political statement regarding the country they reside in when they open the same link? I do not want to argue politics on this thread or point fingers, this is just curiosity, more on the way they approach readers and the marketing/revenue ploy. Perhaps better to delete your post and I will do the same.

Fair enough Kate. The begging bowl has been at the end of Guardian articles for quite some time now. I guess if your newspaper is peddling minority views and is only attractive to a relatively small readership, its what you have to do.

[thatdberight]

I haven't seen any reasonable counter arguments on here to the opinion Andrew puts forward and the response just seems to be along the lines of saying he is brainwashed, biased and spreading left wing propaganda

I would be interested in seeing someone challenge and counter his views with facts, info, evidence and genuine opinions rather than just name calling and deflection and Im sure Andrew would welcome a serious discussion himself

It's just a load of opinions dressed as fact or un-nuanced. Or unreasonably broad brush - a way of seeing things that you're sometimes against / sometimes for depending on who's getting painted.

There's no point debating it. He's got his view. That's not changing.

[Devils_Advocate]

It's just a load of opinions dressed as fact or un-nuanced. Or unreasonably broad brush - a way of seeing things that you're sometimes against / sometimes for depending on who's getting painted.

There's no point debating it. He's got his view. That's not changing.

Are the newspapers he's referenced owned by billionaires?
Do the owners benefit from Tory policies?
Is the Gaurdian ownership spread across a wide ownership who don't personally benefit from the papers editorial?
Were these papers attacked as part of the Leverson inquiry whereas the Gaurdian was not?
Did the Tory party shut down the Leverson inquiry early?

The above are all things that can be challenged and are pretty factual. Andrew then forms his opinions and conclusions from the answers to these questions but his opinions could easily be challenged if you showed the statements he was basing it on was rubbish or at least debateable

My view is that with Andrew people can see he doesnt just use a broad brush approach but he focuses on things that can be proved or disproved and so people just deflect and shy away.

I was being serious when I said Id like to see him challenged because if someone had the knowlege and integrity to argue the alternative position well it would make for a real interesting coming together of ideas.

I wont hold my breath though

[thatdberight]

Are the newspapers he's referenced owned by billionaires?
Do the owners benefit from Tory policies?
Is the Gaurdian ownership spread across a wide ownership who don't personally benefit from the papers editorial?
Were these papers attacked as part of the Leverson inquiry whereas the Gaurdian was not?
Did the Tory party shut down the Leverson inquiry early?

The above are all things that can be challenged and are pretty factual. Andrew then forms his opinions and conclusions from the answers to these questions but his opinions could easily be challenged if you showed the statements he was basing it on was rubbish or at least debateable

My view is that with Andrew people can see he doesnt just use a broad brush approach but he focuses on things that can be proved or disproved and so people just deflect and shy away.

I was being serious when I said Id like to see him challenged because if someone had the knowlege and integrity to argue the alternative position well it would make for a real interesting coming together of ideas.

I wont hold my breath though

Are your spelling mistakes parody?

[Devils_Advocate]

Are your spelling mistakes parody?

Nope my spelling and grammar is generally awful and im doing a few things at once so not checking it as I normally would

[dsr]

Covid-19, anyone? Editorial policies of newspapers on another thread?

[thatdberight]

Nope my spelling and grammar is generally awful and im doing a few things at once so not checking it as I normally would

OK.

Some of your points are factually correct. Newspapers, like many things, for example are owned by rich people. Yes.

I noticed you left out some of the original's most jaundiced comments but still, "Do the owners benefit from Conservative policies?" just leads down the usual rabbit hole. Yes, in my view. Because we all do, in my view. There. Easy. Back to square one. Because the insinuation behind the comment was.. "... to the detriment of others".

Stupid game this. AndrewJB will keep seeing the world his way. I'll keep seeing it mine. You'll imagine you're somewhere balanced and impartial in the middle while liking posts that say right-wing politics is about fear and left-wing politics is about making things brilliant and fixing things. At least AndrewJB knows where he stands.

[SalouClaret]

Are your spelling mistakes parody?

Is your awful personality trait a parody?

[thatdberight]

Is your awful personality trait a parody?

Which one? Plenty to choose from.

[Devils_Advocate]

OK.

Some of your points are factually correct. Newspapers, like many things, for example are owned by rich people. Yes.

I noticed you left out some of the original's most jaundiced comments but still, "Do the owners benefit from Conservative policies?" just leads down the usual rabbit hole. Yes, in my view. Because we all do, in my view. There. Easy. Back to square one. Because the insinuation behind the comment was.. "... to the detriment of others".

Stupid game this. AndrewJB will keep seeing the world his way. I'll keep seeing it mine. You'll imagine you're somewhere balanced and impartial in the middle while liking posts that say right-wing politics is about fear and left-wing politics is about making things brilliant and fixing things. At least AndrewJB knows where he stands.

I dont claim to be somewhere balanced in the middle. I hate the Tory's policies and I am much more of the view of Andrew.

I do always doubt my views and enjoy people with more knowledge who articulate themselves strongly have a good discussion. Whilst it might not change my overarching view of the world I am open to change my view on certain things I may have been blinkered on

This messageboard is full of people arguing points when it is obvious their views are entrenched but for some reason with Andrew it is not worth it. It saddens me because in my opinion he is one of the most reasonable and polite debaters on this site.

Anyhow after yours, Kates and Ringo's Gaurdian bashing and now me causing this exchange we have really diverted the thread away from its purpose so Ive made my point and I'll take a step back now

[KateR]

I just want to say that nowhere on this thread did I bash the Guardian, (well I don't think I did) I merely asked for info regarding the pop up telling me how bad American politics were and asking for a $1, I was curious if everyone got that. I will say yes I am not a fan of this paper and don't read it, I had stopped opening links from it last year because it was so easy to guess what they said, and for the record I do not read any newspapers typically because I will agree there is to much emphasis on what they want the reader to believe and bad news that I don't want to know.

Also I want to say I was sure when I saw the spelling and grammer out again it would be aimed at me, please be more careful in the future DA and don't steal my limelight

[Devils_Advocate]

I just want to say that nowhere on this thread did I bash the Guardian, (well I don't think I did) I merely asked for info regarding the pop up telling me how bad American politics were and asking for a $1, I was curious if everyone got that.

Apologies you are right you, were just posing a question.

[thatdberight]

Why is the UK predicted to have thousands more deaths than even the USA using this model?

Doesn't make sense.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

I just had another look at this. Their data is days out of date and their projection for today is towards twice the actual number of deaths. I think I would cut this source to "junk" status - certainly as far as UK stats go.

[Taffy on the wing]

I'm in the USA you BERK.......8 hours behind. MYOFB!
Why don't you ask why Kate R is up at 2.55 am Houston time posting on here all the time? Ya Berk!
She's Ringo don't you understand?... BERK!

[KateR]

I'm in the USA you BERK.......8 hours behind. MYOFB!
Why don't you ask why Kate R is up at 2.55 am Houston time posting on here all the time? Ya Berk!
She's Ringo don't you understand?... BERK!

I see your making friends again and adding something useful to the thread in a proactive manner, that's nice, and you wonder why people don't answer to you posts normally, must be nice to live in your own little world rambling

I mean you could even get your brain to think mmmm, Texas is 6 hours behind the UK, is she/he/it up and posting at 2.55 am UK time, no, no of course not it's Ringo, I know I'm right and I need to keep trying to upset it by continually saying the same thing ad nauseum.

I did ask you politely another thread I think, wouldn't it be wonderful if you could prove conclusively beyond a shadow of doubt that Ringo and I are one and the same, just think of how many likes and back slapping you'd get. I will ask you yet again, and it's open for anyone, simply go to Tony and ask where am I posting from, which country, don't even have to prove it's the same IP address. I give Tony my permission to do this so there can be no data protection rights.

While you're doing this go back in to the playground and be nice to the other children and a good little boy and stop bulling, while the adults chat xx

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm in the USA you BERK.......8 hours behind. MYOFB!
Why don't you ask why Kate R is up at 2.55 am Houston time posting on here all the time? Ya Berk!
She's Ringo don't you understand?... BERK!

Sounds like another self isolation meltdown!

You really need to stop listening to the inane paranoid ramblings of Claret on a Trex !

[Bordeauxclaret]

Can’t see them being the same.

Ringo isn’t smart enough.

Two sides of the same arse, yes. Same person, no.

[RingoMcCartney]

I see your making friends again and adding something useful to the thread in a proactive manner, that's nice, and you wonder why people don't answer to you posts normally, must be nice to live in your own little world rambling

I mean you could even get your brain to think mmmm, Texas is 6 hours behind the UK, is she/he/it up and posting at 2.55 am UK time, no, no of course not it's Ringo, I know I'm right and I need to keep trying to upset it by continually saying the same thing ad nauseum.

I did ask you politely another thread I think, wouldn't it be wonderful if you could prove conclusively beyond a shadow of doubt that Ringo and I are one and the same, just think of how many likes and back slapping you'd get. I will ask you yet again, and it's open for anyone, simply go to Tony and ask where am I posting from, which country, don't even have to prove it's the same IP address. I give Tony my permission to do this so there can be no data protection rights.

While you're doing this go back in to the playground and be nice to the other children and a good little boy and stop bulling, while the adults chat xx

What makes me laugh is. When various people happen to share some of the same opinions. The left wing bubble dwellers assume it must be the same person. Presumably as they believe so few people could have that opinion.











Then there's a general election/ referendum.........

[KateR]

Can’t see them being the same.

Ringo isn’t smart enough.

Two sides of the same arse, yes. Same person, no.

wow I think I'll interpret that as a backhanded compliment, whether it was or not.

Of course everyone is an ass when they don't agree with your thinking and actually try to put something forward that might just make you go, really. But I'm sure that's never happened, we will continue on though I'm sure never to meet in the middle.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm in the USA you BERK.......8 hours behind. MYOFB!
Why don't you ask why Kate R is up at 2.55 am Houston time posting on here all the time? Ya Berk!
She's Ringo don't you understand?... BERK!

From what I can see all Kate's posts are PM UK time and therefore would be morning/afternoon Houston time.

The obsession that Ringo is acting as a multitude of different posters seems as stupid as the idiots who thought all the left wing posters were Imploding Turtle

[KateR]

What makes me laugh is. When various people happen to share some of the same opinions. The left wing bubble dwellers assume it must be the same person. Presumably as they believe so few people could have that opinion.

what really makes me laugh and I think is hilarious that at least one person on here thinks my spelling and grammer mistakes are being done on purpose, the fact he is spaced out makes no difference, but am sure he will come round to those nice little critiques again

[KateR]

From what I can see all Kate's posts are PM UK time and therefore would be morning/afternoon Houston time.

The obsession that Ringo is acting as a multitude of different posters seems as stupid as the idiots who thought all the left wing posters were Imploding Turtle

please please don't spoil it DA, the fact he says he is 8 hours behind and can't do his own detective work speaks volumes. But, then again I am sure he will say Ringo is the UK morning poster, then changes to a split personality in the afternoon, minimum 3 and then late evening UK goes to just the Kate personality, spending a minimum of 16 hours here posting, so he will disprove the time line theory.

His biggest problem is he doesn't understand how much he makes me smile when he continues with this theory and continually bangs on about it hoping to get others in addition to Rex, who by the way I believe helped Welsh Bat to get to this wonderfully well thought out idea of exposing me, you just couldn't make it up

[RingoMcCartney]

what really makes me laugh and I think is hilarious that at least one person on here thinks my spelling and grammer mistakes are being done on purpose, the fact he is spaced out makes no difference, but am sure he will come round to those nice little critiques again

When the they turn into the spelling police, they've thrown the towel in.

As for me having multiple log ins. I've said before , I'll say it again. Why give someone else the reflective glory of wiping the floor with these jokers!?

I've actually been working today, I have too while my customers still have some money left! So I'm off to Booths shortly for a few beverages to enjoy with Mrs Ringo as this lovely spring sun sets. I'll leave you to hold the fort Kate, I'm sure you'll cope!

Keep well stay safe.

[TVC15]

the fact he is spaced out makes no difference

Right on sister

[Bfcboyo]

I'm in the USA you BERK.......8 hours behind. MYOFB!
Why don't you ask why Kate R is up at 2.55 am Houston time posting on here all the time? Ya Berk!
She's Ringo don't you understand?... BERK!

How do I know your not Ringo as well you BERK. With a berk berk here and a berk berk there here a berk there a berk Taffy is a berk berk.

Also just because your vpn puts you in USA you realise your not actually over the pond don't you!

[Taffy on the wing]

What makes me laugh is. When various people happen to share some of the same opinions. The left wing bubble dwellers assume it must be the same person. Presumably as they believe so few people could have that opinion.

Writes the same way!.......misspells the same way...too many similarities to be coincidental.









Then there's a general election/ referendum.........

[Taffy on the wing]

How do I know your not Ringo as well you BERK. With a berk berk here and a berk berk there here a berk there a berk Taffy is a berk berk.

Also just because your vpn puts you in USA you realise your not actually over the pond don't you!

I don't know about the VPN, but my consistent postings over the years might just give you a clue.
But Kate....a Mother and Wife, constantly up in the middle of the night?.........Dubious at best

[KateR]

I don't know about the VPN, but my consistent postings over the years might just give you a clue.
But Kate....a Mother and Wife, constantly up in the middle of the night?.........Dubious at best

he's like that battery he just keeps on going,

I'm beginning to think your lonely, do you need someone to talk to, are you actually flirting, well you're certainly not dubious, nope nothing dubious about you

You could go the foe route, but maybe you and Rex are the same, you sound the same, you're both extremely insulting to anyone who disagrees or provides an alternative view. You two have consistently posted the same over years, by jove I think I've got it, what a clever ploy, would never have thought of that Rex. Two accounts, use one to insult and appear to be a coward, put it on foe and use your second account to continue the attacks and conspiracy theory, you clever boy you, it threw me off for quite a while, well done you xx

[CombatClaret]

To sum up one of the worst scenes I've seen so far at the press conferences, and there's been a few.

Journalist: How many front line NHS health workers have died?
Handock: One for you Ruth..?

No it one for you Mr F**king Secretary of State for Health & Social Care!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

To sum up one of the worst scene I've seen so far at the press conferences, and there's been a few.

Journalist: How many front line NHS health workers have died?
Handock: One for you Ruth..?

No it one for you Mr F**king Secretary of State for Health & Social Care!

Just seen the clip absolutely horrific from Hancock. He’s more forthcoming on the soundbites he has for the NHS. More deaths in a day than was recorded in either Italy or Spain and that doesn’t take into account care homes.

[keith1879]

The first of those is a fairly neutral report on a University of Southampton piece of research which showed a linkage between patient satisfaction and whether nurses were "home grown". If anything (and it's not like you to miss a chance) it's the government's failure to bring through our own nurses that you should be going for on that one.

But that is the whole point. The report is fairly neutral...but the super soaraway sun (OK I know it doesn't call itself that now) has printed a headline which implies that foreign health staff are bad.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

To sum up one of the worst scenes I've seen so far at the press conferences, and there's been a few.

Journalist: How many front line NHS health workers have died?
Handock: One for you Ruth..?

No it one for you Mr F**king Secretary of State for Health & Social Care!

Everything the tories do is the worst ever according to some people.

PM, press conference etc etc.

Maybe you and the others should just wind it in a little and cut them some slack.

He passed the question on to someone who would have the correct information to hand, I know you want him to micro manage every single detail, but he literally can't and he won't have all the answers to hand there and then.

You'd soon whinge if he'd given out the wrong number.

Oh and that question was all about political point scoring, so it wasn't really needed right now.

[ksrclaret]

Everything the tories do is the worst ever according to some people.

PM, press conference etc etc.

Maybe you and the others should just wind it in a little and cut them some slack.

He passed the question on to someone who would have the correct information to hand, I know you want him to micro manage every single detail, but he literally can't and he won't have all the answers to hand there and then.

You'd soon whinge if he'd given out the wrong number.

Oh and that question was all about political point scoring, so it wasn't really needed right now.

Never read so much garbage from you Sidney, and that's saying something.

The number of front line workers dead is a pretty significant number, and everyone should expect the secretary of state of health to be aware of that given the times we're currently living through. He personally need not have done personal research, but ought to have been briefed accordingly when facing the media. Hancock has done a decent job, but that was a clanger whether you like it or not.

[CombatClaret]

Everything the tories do is the worst ever according to some people.

PM, press conference etc etc.
Maybe you and the others should just wind it in a little and cut them some slack.

He passed the question on to someone who would have the correct information to hand, I know you want him to micro manage every single detail, but he literally can't and he won't have all the answers to hand there and then.

You'd soon whinge if he'd given out the wrong number.
Oh and that question was all about political point scoring, so it wasn't really needed right now.

Mirco manage? The question was not how many face masks have been sent to Musgrove Park Hospital in Taunton?

Is it too much to ask for the secretary of Health & Social care to field the question about the amount of people under his remit have died? And If he doesn't want to give a number explain the reasons and perhaps eulogise them instead of getting a lackey to do it so he can keep his hands clean.

He seems happy to do the feel good numbers though, we'll have this many tests, this much PPE . Seems to have memories those well and they're in the thousands, not too micro managey?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Never read so much garbage from you Sidney, and that's saying something.

The number of front line workers dead is a pretty significant number, and everyone should expect the secretary of state of health to be aware of that given the times we're currently living through. He personally need not have done personal research, but ought to have been briefed accordingly when facing the media. Hancock has done a decent job, but that was a clanger whether you like it or not.

He didnt know the question was coming, it was loaded politically, especially as it's from the Guardian.

Yes we will need to know how many NHS staff we lost, but there is so much information Hancock is dealing with, he won't remember every detail, so he delegated it.

As for garbage, what I've said is nothing compared to the stuff I've read on here these last few months.

Some people just can't give a government time and space to deal with a Pandemic.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Mirco manage? The question was not how many face masks have been sent to Musgrove Park Hospital in Taunton?

Is it too much to ask for the secretary of Health & Social care to field the question about the amount of people under his remit have died? And If he doesn't want to give a number explain the reasons and perhaps eulogise them instead of getting a lackey to do it so he can keep his hands clean.

He seems happy to do the feel good numbers though, we'll have this many tests, this much PPE . Seems to have memories those well and they're in the thousands, not too micro managey?

If he had given the wrong number because he was busy with something else prior to tonight then you'd whinge your dick off, that much is clear.

He passed it on to someone who would have the true number.

[ksrclaret]

He didnt know the question was coming, it was loaded politically, especially as it's from the Guardian.

Yes we will need to know how many NHS staff we lost, but there is so much information Hancock is dealing with, he won't remember every detail, so he delegated it.

As for garbage, what I've said is nothing compared to the stuff I've read on here these last few months.

Some people just can't give a government time and space to deal with a Pandemic.

Of course he didn't know the question was coming, but it wasn't an unreasonable question to ask and it wasn't unreasonable to expect he'd know the answer. He can't know every detail, but he ought to know the really significant ones.

[CombatClaret]

If he had given the wrong number because he was busy with something else prior to tonight then you'd whinge your dick off, that much is clear.
He passed it on to someone who would have the true number.

He passed it on to someone who also didn't give a number...

"Well as you know numbers are very fluid as reporting times vary but at this stage we believe it is between X & Y and their loss saddens us greatly etc". That wouldn't have been hard would it, not sure how I could whinge my dick off at that perfectly reasonable response.

[tim_noone]

He didnt know the question was coming, it was loaded politically, especially as it's from the Guardian.

Yes we will need to know how many NHS staff we lost, but there is so much information Hancock is dealing with, he won't remember every detail, so he delegated it.

As for garbage, what I've said is nothing compared to the stuff I've read on here these last few months.

Some people just can't give a government time and space to deal with a Pandemic.

Didn't watch the TV ... But it is a politicians trait to pass the buck isn't it?.....The government have had since early December to prepare for this situation have they not. PPE And Ventilators etc.I don't Envy them the Task but they know what they're letting themselves in for..

[Rileybobs]

Not seen tonight’s press conference, but Hancock was questioned about the number of nurse deaths in Question Time last week and didn’t cover himself in glory when it transpired that the government only had figures for the number of doctors who had died. I would have though he would have made an effort to get the figures in the interim, even if it was just to avoid looking like he thought nurses lives meant less than doctors.

[paulatky]

Whats has happened to this thread.
Just political bickering for the last fews days.

[KateR]

interesting news from Singapore plus some details that would be relevant to the Lockdown thread:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52232147

Meanwhile in Germany we see a different approach, wonder how this will turnout !

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52243158

[ksrclaret]

Whats has happened to this thread.
Just political bickering for the last fews days.

Still better than post after post of people incorrectly extrapolating data, and then attempting to spread unbridled panic.

[paulatky]

Still better than post after post of people incorrectly extrapolating data, and then attempting to spread unbridled panic.

That panic as you call it has turned out roughly right. In fact its far worse than those scaremongers as you call them predicted.

Fightening that we will be over 10,000 deaths by the end of this weekend and not yet reached the peak

[paulatky]

Still better than post after post of people incorrectly extrapolating data, and then attempting to spread unbridled panic.

That panic as you call it has turned out roughly right. In fact its far worse than those scaremongers as you call them predicted.

Fightening that we will be over 10,000 deaths by the end of this weekend and not yet reached the peak

[tim_noone]

That's why politicians need to answer simple questions.