Covid-19

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Same here, I'm not fussed if the lockdown never gets lifted in some ways it's a better life even if still working, people seem to show more manners in queues ect & far more consideration everywhere you look, air pollutions down, crimes down, I don't think we've ever had it so good, I'm in no way diminishing the seriousness of the virus or undermining efforts of the people trying to contain it, just appreciating a different better life.

The turf though can’t go on without the turf!

[TheFamilyCat]

Three-week lockdown extension set to be approved.

Will be interest to see if they announce what might happen in three weeks time e.g. lifting of some restrictions. Labour are pushing for them to reveal their plans; it would be good to know what could happen next, should the next three weeks go to plan.

[jrgbfc]

Same here, I'm not fussed if the lockdown never gets lifted in some ways it's a better life even if still working, people seem to show more manners in queues ect & far more consideration everywhere you look, air pollutions down, crimes down, I don't think we've ever had it so good, I'm in no way diminishing the seriousness of the virus or undermining efforts of the people trying to contain it, just appreciating a different better life.

I appreciate the lockdown has its upsides, but would you honestly like it permanently? No sports, nothing to look forward to on a weekend, never seeing friends or family members? Personally I think life would barely be worth living.

[Paul Waine]

Just grabbing something off Wikipedia is often not sound (that article has no citations for the 19th century events).

"United Kingdom 1749, 1822, 1834, 1888–89
(these restructurings appear to be mostly voluntary)"
Reinhart and Rogoff 2010
{For clarity - the note about them being voluntary applies to all four instances - not just the last}

I haven't time to read through any more of Hansard to understand Earl Grey's (yes, that one) contribution to the debate about whether the conditions allowing legitimate reductions to the coupon had been met on the Navy Five Per Cents but that circumstance is only linked in the most tenuous way to the possibility of default to another sovereign nation.

From Reinhart and Rogoff's note, I'd assume the same lack of applicability for the others you cite.

Hi thatdberight, I'll put my hand up to linking to Wikipedia. You are correct that it includes debt restructurings as well as defaults. I don't see a difference in defaulting to lenders who aren't government linked and those that are state owned entities. When a sovereign entity defaults on it's external debt it remains a default, whether that debt was held by other sovereigns or by other entities.

In my professional career (I am now retired) I've had a few occasions where I've had to made decisions re sovereign credit risks. It's a tough area to call right.

[Heathclaret]

Coming out of this is going to be very difficult. The economic aftermath will be awful and last longer than the lockdown.

I’m trying to carry on working, tried to get plaster yesterday, I have accounts with Travis Perkins and Buildbase but they are closed, can’t get any from the likes of B&Q and Wickes, they show stock, bit I’m unable to buy, I have to go to Leicester tomorrow to collect, I live near Lincoln. Speaking to other people, jobs being cancelled, postponed indefinitely. It’s a mess.

Companies going bust already and the accusations already starting that some companies closed unnecessarily and are claiming money that they aren’t entitled to and will be prosecuted if they have.

It’s a huge mess.

[Mala591]

Maybe the time will come (another 6 weeks?) when the government decides to leave it up to each individual to 'take their chance' and start getting back to normal or remain in lockdown.

Personally, I'd take my chance.

[tim_noone]

Maybe the time will come (another 6 weeks?) when the government decides to leave it up to each individual to 'take their chance' and start getting back to normal or remain in lockdown.

Personally, I'd take my chance.

Maybe it's more complicated than taking a chance.

[FactualFrank]

Will be interest to see if they announce what might happen in three weeks time e.g. lifting of some restrictions. Labour are pushing for them to reveal their plans; it would be good to know what could happen next, should the next three weeks go to plan.

I think they'll have to wait until nearer the time, when they have more information.

I guess they can communicate with us their intended plans. But it's a moving target, as in 3 weeks, we may need another 3 weeks.

[Paul Waine]

I appreciate the lockdown has its upsides, but would you honestly like it permanently? No sports, nothing to look forward to on a weekend, never seeing friends or family members? Personally I think life would barely be worth living.

I can take a few more weeks, nature is restoring itself with the absence of "transport pollution." I saw one plane - as it ascended on it's departure from Heathrow, there'd have been 30-40 at the beginning of March - on my morning walk.

But, back to normal as soon as possible for me. If there has to be a period between lockdown and "back to normal" I can be happy.

[FactualFrank]

I appreciate the lockdown has its upsides, but would you honestly like it permanently? No sports, nothing to look forward to on a weekend, never seeing friends or family members? Personally I think life would barely be worth living.

To be fair, I don't think anybody suggested permanently. I could do 6 more weeks, easily.

[Paul Waine]

Will be interest to see if they announce what might happen in three weeks time e.g. lifting of some restrictions. Labour are pushing for them to reveal their plans; it would be good to know what could happen next, should the next three weeks go to plan.

Matt Hancock was on R4 Today this morning (8:20 ish). He put the interviewer in his place, "no, we want a single clear message. We don't want to confuse the message by talking about what happens next..." He also said, the scientists, commentators and interviewers can speak about it, but the gov't cannot confuse their message.... how ever frustrating that may be to the interviewers.

[Jakubclaret]

I appreciate the lockdown has its upsides, but would you honestly like it permanently? No sports, nothing to look forward to on a weekend, never seeing friends or family members? Personally I think life would barely be worth living.

Everyone's different, I'd kill with both hands for it personally, you can still do plenty as long as you keep reasonable distance & sanitise regularly, the footballs a miss I'd agree there, the rest take it or leave it.

[thatdberight]

Hi thatdberight, I'll put my hand up to linking to Wikipedia. You are correct that it includes debt restructurings as well as defaults. I don't see a difference in defaulting to lenders who aren't government linked and those that are state owned entities. When a sovereign entity defaults on it's external debt it remains a default, whether that debt was held by other sovereigns or by other entities.

In my professional career (I am now retired) I've had a few occasions where I've had to made decisions re sovereign credit risks. It's a tough area to call right.

It was the "voluntary" and the entirely different circumstances that I was referring to although there are obvious differences between defaulting to a group of bondholders and a nation state. For a start, the bondholders don't have an army!

[TheFamilyCat]

Everyone's different, I'd kill with both hands for it personally, you can still do plenty as long as you keep reasonable distance & sanitise regularly, the footballs a miss I'd agree there, the rest take it or leave it.

No you can't. You can shop for essentials, exercise once per day or go for medical assistance.

Although we already know your interpretation of shopping for essentials so **** knows what else you're doing under the impression that it is acceptable as long as you "keep reasonable distance and sanitise regularly".

[thatdberight]

To be fair, I don't think anybody suggested permanently. I could do 6 more weeks, easily.

JakubClaret has repeatedly said he'd be OK indefinitely. There's nothing stopping him while the rest of us live rather than just exist. He seems to want to make hiding under a rock compulsory rather than his choice though.

[thatdberight]

Companies going bust already and the accusations already starting that some companies closed unnecessarily and are claiming money that they aren’t entitled to and will be prosecuted if they have.

This is definitely happening - I've seen it. Some of it will be actionable by employees in the aftermath, some of it by government. Some of it will just be opportunism by employers that they get away with.

[tim_noone]

Matt Hancock was on R4 Today this morning (8:20 ish). He put the interviewer in his place, "no, we want a single clear message. We don't want to confuse the message by talking about what happens next..." He also said, the scientists, commentators and interviewers can speak about it, but the gov't cannot confuse their message.... how ever frustrating that may be to the interviewers.

Matt Hancock I suggest doesn't know what happens next....apart from rising numbers.

[Jakubclaret]

JakubClaret has repeatedly said he'd be OK indefinitely. There's nothing stopping him while the rest of us live rather than just exist. He seems to want to make hiding under a rock compulsory rather than his choice though.

It's not hiding under a rock, I'm not forcing you or anybody else to be a recluse, if you honestly think covid-19 will be the last bug about you've got another thing coming, with the way things are going they'll be more diseases & illness about, you either listen to nature or you don't, everytime you step out into the open you might consider it natural to worry about the next thing you're going to get I don't. More & more people are & will start adopting a more cautious approach to living, I'd have a sportsman wager that after this within the next 5 years something else will hit us unexpectedly of a similar threat & so on & on.

[thatdberight]

It's not hiding under a rock, I'm not forcing you or anybody else to be a recluse, if you honestly think covid-19 will be the last bug about you've got another thing coming, with the way things are going they'll be more diseases & illness about, you either listen to nature or you don't, everytime you step out into the open you might consider it natural to worry about the next thing you're going to get I don't. More & more people are & will start adopting a more cautious approach to living, I'd have a sportsman wager that after this within the next 5 years something else will hit us unexpectedly of a similar threat & so on & on.

You're going to die.

[thatdberight]

Matt Hancock I suggest doesn't know what happens next....apart from rising numbers.

Well, if they fall that would be a hell of a story.

[Jakubclaret]

You're going to die.

True, I'd like some sort of a say when though.

[tim_noone]

True, I'd like some sort of a say when though.

No you wouldn't.

[jackmiggins]

It’s been interesting to read different interpretations of my query, regarding eventual recompense. I’ve a feeling the US of A may force a global response.
I’m slightly amused to see that one of our (UTC) worries about our AA credit status if we default on credit payments? Payment of any debts would only apply to Chinese banks if China wouldn’t accept responsibility. In this case, I would suggest that ‘credit ratings’ wouldn’t be of any worth with Chinese banks.
As I also mentioned, perhaps this represents an ideal opportunity to re-think global banking, such that we drag it into a morally and ethically acceptable system?

[thatdberight]

As I also mentioned, perhaps this represents an ideal opportunity to re-think global banking, such that we drag it into a morally and ethically acceptable system?

It's already morally and ethically acceptable to me.

[jackmiggins]

I can see that and I’m happy for you.

[dsr]

Same here, I'm not fussed if the lockdown never gets lifted in some ways it's a better life even if still working, people seem to show more manners in queues ect & far more consideration everywhere you look, air pollutions down, crimes down, I don't think we've ever had it so good, I'm in no way diminishing the seriousness of the virus or undermining efforts of the people trying to contain it, just appreciating a different better life.

We've never had it so good? A different better life? You think that living with children in a flat with no garden and no escape, is a better life than school and work and freedom to move?

I suspect that when you say "I don't think we've ever had it so good", you really mean "I'm all right Jack".

Let me guess - you have a garden?

[NottsClaret]

That is a bit selfish Jakub. Kids are really suffering now, all of them educationally, and particularly the ones from poor families. And all being sacrificed to help those at the other end of life's journey. Hopefully the youngsters get a bit more respect and thanks from the older generations for what they've given up here.

[tim_noone]

Compared to Harold mcMillan hes not to far off. And We had a big shortage of Bog rolls back then.

[Jakubclaret]

That is a bit selfish Jakub. Kids are really suffering now, all of them educationally, and particularly the ones from poor families. And all being sacrificed to help those at the other end of life's journey. Hopefully the youngsters get a bit more respect and thanks from the older generations for what they've given up here.

I've just got back home & from what I've witnessed on my daily walk was anything but than you've suggested, I've seen kids playing & having a whale of a time in the sunshine, never seen them so happy, kids absolutely dread school & the learning aspects can easily be learnt on PCs & tablets at home, when the lockdown is eventually lifted the kids will be playing up even more & inventing stomach bugs to dodge school.

[thatdberight]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783

"More than nine in 10 people dying with coronavirus have an underlying health condition, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems. The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness. On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions."

[Rileybobs]

I've just got back home & from what I've witnessed on my daily walk was anything but than you've suggested, I've seen kids playing & having a whale of a time in the sunshine, never seen them so happy, kids absolutely dread school & the learning aspects can easily be learnt on PCs & tablets at home, when the lockdown is eventually lifted the kids will be playing up even more & inventing stomach bugs to dodge school.

Yeah it’s brilliant that kids can’t play with their friends and learn social skills. Great that their grandparents can’t watch them grow up. I don’t know why anyone didn’t think of this lockdown idea before.

[ksrclaret]

I've just got back home & from what I've witnessed on my daily walk was anything but than you've suggested, I've seen kids playing & having a whale of a time in the sunshine, never seen them so happy, kids absolutely dread school & the learning aspects can easily be learnt on PCs & tablets at home, when the lockdown is eventually lifted the kids will be playing up even more & inventing stomach bugs to dodge school.

Hahaha. Don’t know what else to do other than to laugh at that stupid post.

Kids dread school? They can learn on PCs and tablets instead? What a load of absolute and utter garbage.

[Jakubclaret]

Yeah it’s brilliant that kids can’t play with their friends and learn social skills. Great that their grandparents can’t watch them grow up. I don’t know why anyone didn’t think of this lockdown idea before.

It's still happening, people are just being sensible about it the kids seem to be having a good time, think the source of frustration could be borne from some people just wanting them back at school as there could be becoming a handful for them, rather than the kids being happier or not.

[Rileybobs]

It's still happening, people are just being sensible about it the kids seem to be having a good time, think the source of frustration could be borne from some people just wanting them back at school as there could be becoming a handful for them, rather than the kids being happier or not.

What’s still happening?

[jrgbfc]

What about all the kids growing up in poverty, or abusive homes? I can't imagine being stuck in a tiny flat in a tower block in the city is much fun right now. For lots of kids going to school is an escape, for some it might be virtually the only time they get a decent meal.

[thatdberight]

Hahaha. Don’t know what else to do other than to laugh at that stupid post.

Kids dread school? They can learn on PCs and tablets instead? What a load of absolute and utter garbage.

Don't feed the troll. He's either winding people up or completely unhinged (personally - option #2 based on what I've seen here over several weeks).

[TVC15]

I've just got back home & from what I've witnessed on my daily walk was anything but than you've suggested, I've seen kids playing & having a whale of a time in the sunshine, never seen them so happy, kids absolutely dread school & the learning aspects can easily be learnt on PCs & tablets at home, when the lockdown is eventually lifted the kids will be playing up even more & inventing stomach bugs to dodge school.

Wow
You do come out with some absolute pearlers !!

Have you got any young relatives who can confirm what a “whale of a time” they are having ?

“Inventing stomach bugs” to dodge school - is your only experience with children been reading Just William books ?

[thatdberight]

Wow
You do come out with some absolute pearlers !!

Have you got any young relatives who can confirm what a “whale of a time” they are having ?

“Inventing stomach bugs” to dodge school - is your only experience with children been reading Just William books ?

He really can't see that we're currently (for those of us lucky enough) in something of a honeymoon phase.

If you:
- have a decent home
- have a bit of space
- have some money put aside
- live somewhere where you have access to a nice outdoors
- have a bit of decent weather
- are generally in good health
- get on well with anyone 'lucky' enough to be locked away with you most of the time
- are by nature a bit of a mouse scared of the outside anyway because of "germs and bugs" and "bombs in shopping centres"
- are older so you don't have to worry about what this is doing to your long-term future

... then, I could see, in the short-term that you might be thinking, "This is alright".

You'd have to be both very selfish and too dim to see past the end of your nose to see that it's not anything like alright for any length of time.

[TheFamilyCat]

I think Jakub is onto something. Who needs schools anyway? And some quick fag packet maths tells me that teachers are draining £15,000,000,000 from the public purse in salaries. Add to that the cost of the buildings, transport, free meals, board dusters - wow, we could be making some real savings. Just stick the kids on a tablet and away they go!

[Jakubclaret]

What about all the kids growing up in poverty, or abusive homes? I can't imagine being stuck in a tiny flat in a tower block in the city is much fun right now. For lots of kids going to school is an escape, for some it might be virtually the only time they get a decent meal.

Don't have children in the first place if you can't be ar**d looking after them, if you can't hack it don't back it, supercedes any lifestyle choice, regarding kids & school & "escape" as if it's some sort of adventure for some kids going to school will be a nightmare with getting bullied, PE day wearing cheap trainers because the parent can't afford Nike ect, swings & roundabouts.

[Zlatan]

Maybe the time will come (another 6 weeks?) when the government decides to leave it up to each individual to 'take their chance' and start getting back to normal or remain in lockdown.

Personally, I'd take my chance.

why should your roll of a dice potentially kill me?

[TVC15]

How many parents can afford to buy their kids swings and roundabouts ? Swings possibly but not both.

[TheFamilyCat]

Don't have children in the first place if you can't be ar**d looking after them, if you can't hack it don't back it, supercedes any lifestyle choice, regarding kids & school & "escape" as if it's some sort of adventure for some kids going to school will be a nightmare with getting bullied, PE day wearing cheap trainers because the parent can't afford Nike ect, swings & roundabouts.

You've been at the paint fumes haven't you? Who had kids with the expectation of being stuck in their homes for 23 hours a day?

Personally I would be loving this time with my boy before he starts school in September (although the lack of routine is doing him no favours) but me and my wife are both still working from home and balancing work with the needs of a 3-year old is hard work.

[thatdberight]

How many parents can afford to buy their kids swings and roundabouts ? Swings possibly but not both.

"Swings and roundabouts".

Stupid phrase. Either a swing or a roundabout is sufficient to make the analogy of no particular gain. Adding another mechanism that operates in a different plane simply confuses the issue.

[Grumps]

I thought this discussion had calmed down a bit after the fun the other day
Then along comes Jakubclaret again.....

[Dazzler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52308783

"More than nine in 10 people dying with coronavirus have an underlying health condition, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

In 91% of cases the individuals had other health problems. The most common was heart disease, followed by dementia and respiratory illness. On average, people dying also had roughly three other health conditions."

I would have highlighted this too>

"Coronavirus is doing more than taking the place of other causes of death for people who would otherwise have died this month," he said.

"It has driven the total number of deaths higher than expected.

"People like these, with multiple health conditions, do have lower life expectancy, but these figures don't say exactly how many months or years coronavirus has taken off their life."

It does make one wonder how many folk have died from coronavirus alone.

[Blackrod]

School offers children lots of different things. To say this can be replicated at home on a computer is plain barmey.

[Dazzler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

[Jakubclaret]

You've been at the paint fumes haven't you? Who had kids with the expectation of being stuck in their homes for 23 hours a day?

Personally I would be loving this time with my boy before he starts school in September (although the lack of routine is doing him no favours) but me and my wife are both still working from home and balancing work with the needs of a 3-year old is hard work.

No paint fumes, not sure where you get 23hrs from with or without a garden, children are happily playing in whatever environment providing the parents take an interest & keep them amused, the present attitude seems to be lacklustre & devoid of ideas of how to keep the children entertained hence the want/necessity to palm off, crack open a can in the back garden (nothing wrong in that) missus kicks off, big drama ensues, work together, you've already ceded there's anxiety & depression & throw a youngster into the mix, work it & sort it & stop crying about it.

[Pstotto]

China caused this environmental world catastrophe and China must pay in full. All nations unite to take them to court.