Talk sport very soon

[joey13]

I think saying it stinks is a bit dramatic if i'm honest. We need to wait and see. Kicking off about things after a month and off the back of media speculation is just OTT.

Kicking off is a bit dramatic, I get it , you’re ok with the new owners who haven’t got any money and the old owners who plunged the club into debt .

[joey13]

The future under the old ownership was only going to head in one direction. Dyche would have been off and we would have dropped like a stone. I would rather have this than the old owners.

Dyche was and is under contract, where would he have been off too ?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Dyche was and is under contract, where would he have been off too ?

Wherever was available or he could sit and wait, he's rich enough.
He's only got a year or so left on his contract hasn't he?
He's not on the rolling one anymore.

[joey13]

Wherever was available or he could sit and wait, he's rich enough.
He's only got a year or so left on his contract hasn't he?
He's not on the rolling one anymore.

So you don’t know anything about his contract, ok then

[JohnMac]

I've just checked my bank account and all my money is still there. I can only draw the conclusion that whatever is happening with the finances at BFC, my liability is still zero.

When we are relegated as we will be one day I will benefit from being able to watch more games over a season.

Win/Win

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Strange. If someone borrowed your car and failed to return it would you wait a month before expressing any concern?

My mate lent me a dvd a couple of years ago for me to watch, as its his favourite film.

I still haven't watched it and at the moment he's gone back to forgetting I've got it

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So you don’t know anything about his contract, ok then

Screenshot_20210204_153800_com.android.chrome.jpg (336.79 KiB) Viewed 2338 times

More than you it seems, even when I'm guessing the duration of it

[joey13]

Screenshot_20210204_153800_com.android.chrome.jpg

More than you it seems, even when I'm guessing the duration of it

The details of it Einstein

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The details of it Einstein

Expires next summer, what other details did you want?
That's all we need to know don't we?

There has been other stuff in the press about some bonuses to do with player sales I think it was but that wasn't the point up for discussion.

Dyche could leave next summer and find himself another job easily enough.
Proven manager in the PL and the championship.
Has limited experience of European football.
Widely respected across the sporting world.

[joey13]

It was stated Dyche would have been off , he couldn’t, he’s under contract, Jesus it’s not that difficult to understand

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It was stated Dyche would have been off , he couldn’t, he’s under contract, Jesus it’s not that difficult to understand

He could resign tomorrow if he so wished though, that isn't difficult to understand either.

He could sit on gardening leave until next summer if he really felt like it, other managers have done that in the past.
He could in theory buy himself out of his contract if he felt there was a better opportunity out there.
A club could buy him out of it, like Bournemouth did with Howe for £4 million at the time I think it was.

So I completely understand that Dyche is under contract here, but also he could leave anytime he wants...

[joey13]

He could resign tomorrow if he so wished though, that isn't difficult to understand either.

He could sit on gardening leave until next summer if he really felt like it, other managers have done that in the past.
He could in theory buy himself out of his contract if he felt there was a better opportunity out there.
A club could buy him out of it, like Bournemouth did with Howe for £4 million at the time I think it was.

So I completely understand that Dyche is under contract here, but also he could leave anytime he wants...

I’ll leave it there , you’re not getting my point , have a good evening

[gandhisflipflop]

Joey13, if a job was available last summer he would have gone. The fact he is still here is due to the fact there wasn’t a job available to him. He wasn’t happy here under the previous ownership.

[gandhisflipflop]

Kicking off is a bit dramatic, I get it , you’re ok with the new owners who haven’t got any money and the old owners who plunged the club into debt .

Strange, you say that others haven’t got a clue about SD’s contract yet seem to know about AP’s and the consortiums wealth. You must know it all. Enlighten us.

[joey13]

Strange, you say that others haven’t got a clue about SD’s contract yet seem to know about AP’s and the consortiums wealth. You must know it all. Enlighten us.

The facts are there for everyone to see , if you can’t see them that’s your problem

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The facts are there for everyone to see , if you can’t see them that’s your problem

Let's see your facts then, I'm bored and got some time to kill.

[tim_noone]

Let's see your facts then, I'm bored and got some time to kill.

I cant give you facts ....but the mention of someone working on "wall street" doesn't impress myself tbh. The new Chairman ain't that rich either that sets alarm bells ringing. For me at Least ..I reckon hes from vegas and thrown a double six.

[bfcjg]

Regarding the takeover, I will stick with the owners, they aim to grow us as a brand and with growth will come money for the manager, it is how it is, we either go with it or protest I've been outside the Bob Lord numerous times chanting sack the board it just doesn't work. I was happy with Garlick and co, they though were not happy with the status quo so we move on and hopefully up.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I cant give you facts ....but the mention of someone working on "wall street" doesn't impress myself tbh. The new Chairman ain't that rich either that sets alarm bells ringing. For me at Least ..I reckon hes from vegas and thrown a double six.

Glazers were billionaires when they took over Utd.
They borrowed virtually all of the money to buy the club in a leveraged buy out.
They've sold further shares in the club since to raise money etc.

The important bit in all that is they grew the revenue streams massively at Utd.
People whine and moan that Utd is more bothered about likes on social media, but that's exactly one way to grow revenue.

Other clubs will buy players from certain areas of the world to encourage retail sales - Spurs with Son and Utd with Ji-Sung.

Brighton have signed the lad Caicedo, an Ecuadorian lad and it's a guarantee part of the reason for signing him will be trying to raise the clubs profile.

It doesn't matter how much money the owners have got, it's what they do with the club that matters and so long as it's growing the club...

[Chester Perry]

Glazers were billionaires when they took over Utd.
They borrowed virtually all of the money to buy the club in a leveraged buy out.
They've sold further shares in the club since to raise money etc.

The important bit in all that is they grew the revenue streams massively at Utd.
People whine and moan that Utd is more bothered about likes on social media, but that's exactly one way to grow revenue.

Other clubs will buy players from certain areas of the world to encourage retail sales - Spurs with Son and Utd with Ji-Sung.

Brighton have signed the lad Caicedo, an Ecuadorian lad and it's a guarantee part of the reason for signing him will be trying to raise the clubs profile.

It doesn't matter how much money the owners have got, it's what they do with the club that matters and so long as it's growing the club...

Brighton have been buying young South American players for a while, some have been at their Belgian club while they develop to get work permits, all this is because they saw value in that market , the owner is in the same business as Brentford's owner, in that market and they have invested in people on the ground - they beat an awful lot of big clubs to Caicedo, because they are well connected and have a good reputation- part of the plan is to develop players and sell the talent on, though they are also trying to grow the club (and they have been very successful in that so far you have to say)

[tim_noone]

Glazers were billionaires when they took over Utd.
They borrowed virtually all of the money to buy the club in a leveraged buy out.
They've sold further shares in the club since to raise money etc.

The important bit in all that is they grew the revenue streams massively at Utd.
People whine and moan that Utd is more bothered about likes on social media, but that's exactly one way to grow revenue.

Other clubs will buy players from certain areas of the world to encourage retail sales - Spurs with Son and Utd with Ji-Sung.

Brighton have signed the lad Caicedo, an Ecuadorian lad and it's a guarantee part of the reason for signing him will be trying to raise the clubs profile.

It doesn't matter how much money the owners have got, it's what they do with the club that matters and so long as it's growing the club...

Hopefully it all goes smoothly and Burnley prosper on and off the field.

[joey13]

Let's see your facts then, I'm bored and got some time to kill.

Pointless if you can’t see them now , you never will regardless.

Man U were a global brand long before the Glazers you really think Burnley can be developed in the same way ,good luck with that , the snake oil salesman’s bull might have worked with you , not me or many others , listen to independent observers like Jordan .Still algorithms

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Pointless if you can’t see them now , you never will regardless.

Man U were a global brand long before the Glazers you really think Burnley can be developed in the same way ,good luck with that , the snake oil salesman’s bull might have worked with you , not me or many others , listen to independent observers like Jordan .Still algorithms

So next time just admit you've no facts and it's all opinion, ta.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Brighton have been buying young South American players for a while, some have been at their Belgian club while they develop to get work permits, all this is because they saw value in that market , the owner is in the same business as Brentford's owner, in that market and they have invested in people on the ground - they beat an awful lot of big clubs to Caicedo, because they are well connected and have a good reputation- part of the plan is to develop players and sell the talent on, though they are also trying to grow the club (and they have been very successful in that so far you have to say)

According to an article in The Athletic an awful lot of clubs decided not to bother with the lad because of the complications in regards to ownership of the lad too.

[joey13]

So next time just admit you've no facts and it's all opinion, ta.

The facts, are there just don’t want to see them

[KRBFC]

Quite possibly, it is a bit like a Dyche press conference when he is accused of being a bit short with someone while ignoring it could the 20th time he has been asked the same question worded differently for the past hour or so.

We had people desperate for new owners (shouldn't have been surprised to think they expected the club to be given away) now they have the reverse sirens blaring.

What on earth are you talking about? digging at the fans again....
It's not too difficult to understand is it? the club has been purchased using it's own assets and future income, a leveraged buyout, uncommon in football, like Mr Jordan said, they've got a £200M club for less than £35M (probably nearer £20M).

Most fans wanted new ownership but I'd suggest 99% of fans wanted new owners who would pay for their own shares, ALK aren't funding their own shares, they're using the clubs future income to do so. The club is bank rolling ALK.

Expecting new owners to pay their own debts and pay for their own shares in the club isn't expecting the club to be given away...... quite the opposite

Are you not worried for the future of the club with this buyout? any normal fan should be incredibly skeptical given the history of leveraged buyouts and the fact we desperately need to retain PL status for a considerable period of time for this to even slightly work.

Do you believe the club spending £90M+ (+ yearly interest) of the clubs money (and future money) on new owners is a good investment?

[KRBFC]

Glazers were billionaires when they took over Utd.
They borrowed virtually all of the money to buy the club in a leveraged buy out.
They've sold further shares in the club since to raise money etc.

The important bit in all that is they grew the revenue streams massively at Utd.
People whine and moan that Utd is more bothered about likes on social media, but that's exactly one way to grow revenue.

Other clubs will buy players from certain areas of the world to encourage retail sales - Spurs with Son and Utd with Ji-Sung.

Brighton have signed the lad Caicedo, an Ecuadorian lad and it's a guarantee part of the reason for signing him will be trying to raise the clubs profile.

It doesn't matter how much money the owners have got, it's what they do with the club that matters and so long as it's growing the club...

The Glazers have also plunged the club into £700M of debt and took out over ONE BILLION POUNDS

[Chester Perry]

According to an article in The Athletic an awful lot of clubs decided not to bother with the lad because of the complications in regards to ownership of the lad too.

That article also showed that Brighton had the knowledge and connections to cut through the wood to see the trees - it shows they know and understand the territory better than most, that comes with years of leg work and investment, the point was this is not an overnight thing - it is something they identified and worked on years ago. It is no coincidence that under new international rules it is easier to bring in South American talent that European, there analysis will have pointed to that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The Glazers have also plunged the club into £700M of debt and took out over ONE BILLION POUNDS

Yup and they've managed that through growing the revenue streams and the club has still been able to splurge on players and win trophies.

What's your point?

[joey13]

Yup and they've managed that through growing the revenue streams and the club has still been able to splurge on players and win trophies.

What's your point?

There you go again comparing us to Man U ,

[Newcastleclaret93]

There you go again comparing us to Man U ,

Literally no point speaking to this bloke. He lives on fairytales and pixie dust. According to him we will be the next Man United and all it takes is a little bit of marketing.

If you dare question him you will be called negative and that you wish the club goes under.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

There you go again comparing us to Man U ,

They're a leveraged buy out where the owners used very little of their own money.
Give me another example to use and I will.

You can sit there pontificating that I can't see the truth for not looking but at least I can offer opinions, examples and points of discussion.
You've offered the square root of naff all thus far.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Literally no point speaking to this bloke. He lives on fairytales and pixie dust. According to him we will be the next Man United and all it takes is a little bit of marketing.

If you dare question him you will be called negative and that you wish the club goes under.

Not once have I ever said we will be the next Utd, so if you're going to lie at least make it believable.

The club can be grown, again I've provided examples and points of discussion and you're just sat there like eeyore trying you're very best to dampen any enthusiasm for the future and what it could bring.

They've been in charge for just over a month and people are whinging about stuff just for the sake of it.

We weren't going to progress any further under the old owners, fans wanted new owners.

New owners turn up and because they aren't using their own money some of you are just effing miserable about it DESPITE the fact other owners pour their own money in and the clubs aren't really progressing.

Tell you what, let me know when you've decided what sort of owner you want, you find one and you push them to take over so they can fulfill your ideals of an owner.

[joey13]

They're a leveraged buy out where the owners used very little of their own money.
Give me another example to use and I will.

You can sit there pontificating that I can't see the truth for not looking but at least I can offer opinions, examples and points of discussion.
You've offered the square root of naff all thus far.

Only because you can’t see the obvious, it’s been pointed out to you , you can’t/won’t see it .

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Only because you can’t see the obvious, it’s been pointed out to you , you can’t/won’t see it .

Lay it all out then, come on.

It's all well and good telling me I can't see it, but you're clearly unable to explain it, so until you can you're not even worth my time.

[joey13]

Lay it all out then, come on.

It's all well and good telling me I can't see it, but you're clearly unable to explain it, so until you can you're not even worth my time.

, I’m not wasting my time trying to explain the obvious, you’re obviously not capable of understanding clear facts
Enjoy your Sunday

[Darthlaw]

, I’m not wasting my time trying to explain the obvious, you’re obviously not capable of understanding clear facts
Enjoy your Sunday

Ok, explain the ‘obvious clear facts’ for my benefit.

Any references to companies house, financial documents involved in the purchase or essentially anything other than journo hearsay will be appreciated.

[Chester Perry]

They're a leveraged buy out where the owners used very little of their own money.
Give me another example to use and I will.

You can sit there pontificating that I can't see the truth for not looking but at least I can offer opinions, examples and points of discussion.
You've offered the square root of naff all thus far.

As you well know there have been 3 leveraged buyouts in Premier League history

Man Utd - remained successful in the Fergusson years and allowed him his head on spending and contracts overall, though first couple of years were tight as interest rates well into double figures left little room for manoeuvre, until they could refinance (which came with significant fees that were added to the debt) - this is a lesson our new owners are using, remember Fergusson kept complaining of financial restrictions under Edwards - The Glazer family has managed to get back all the money they have put in the club via, stock listing, dividends and consultancy fees, in fact some family members have leveraged their stock in the club, dividends provides the annual pocket money for some family members. The asset (the club) is believed to be worth at least 5 times what was paid for it.

Liverpool - Hicks and Gillette, couldn't afford the repayments which were then rolled up into the debt further increasing the service cost and debt - went from £110m to £250m in 5 years. The lenders forced the sale

Burnley - the debt looks large considering the squeeze on revenues currently (impacts of which could last 3-5 years) and the difficulty to further reduce costs without compromising the squad's ability to stay in the league. It was only possible because the club was debt free, had a track record of generating profit and cash and had a substantial cash holding,

Europe has seen leveraged takeovers fail at AC Milan and Lille in recent times on both occasions the lenders forced the change in ownership (at AC Milan the lender took control)

there are examples of leverage in the EFL and all have ended up very ugly, the most famous of which on our doorstep at Bury and Bolton (post Eddie Davies)

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'd forgotten about Liverpool being a leveraged one until today when looking at leveraged buyouts.

Bolton - they were a financial mess prior to that buy out, dunno about Bury.

[Chester Perry]

I'd forgotten about Liverpool being a leveraged one until today when looking at leveraged buyouts.

Bolton - they were a financial mess prior to that buy out, dunno about Bury.

Bolton had all but a tiny amount of debt absolved on the takeover - there was a clause for additional payment on promotion to the Premier League, the new owners quickly made sure that was unlikely - I am not sure if the new owners had control of the stadium and if not you question the leverage further

[Newcastleclaret93]

As you well know there have been 3 leveraged buyouts in Premier League history

Man Utd - remained successful in the Fergusson years and allowed him his head on spending and contracts overall, though first couple of years were tight as interest rates well into double figures left little room for manoeuvre, until they could refinance (which came with significant fees that were added to the debt) - this is a lesson our new owners are using, remember Fergusson kept complaining of financial restrictions under Edwards - The Glazer family has managed to get back all the money they have put in the club via, stock listing, dividends and consultancy fees, in fact some family members have leveraged their stock in the club, dividends provides the annual pocket money for some family members. The asset (the club) is believed to be worth at least 5 times what was paid for it.

Liverpool - Hicks and Gillette, couldn't afford the repayments which were then rolled up into the debt further increasing the service cost and debt - went from £110m to £250m in 5 years. The lenders forced the sale

Burnley - the debt looks large considering the squeeze on revenues currently (impacts of which could last 3-5 years) and the difficulty to further reduce costs without compromising the squad's ability to stay in the league. It was only possible because the club was debt free, had a track record of generating profit and cash and had a substantial cash holding,

Europe has seen leveraged takeovers fail at AC Milan and Lille in recent times on both occasions the lenders forced the change in ownership (at AC Milan the lender took control)

there are examples of leverage in the EFL and all have ended up very ugly, the most famous of which on our doorstep at Bury and Bolton (post Eddie Davies)

So in reality none have them have been particularly successful. Even a club the size of Manchester United have lost £1 billion as a result of that takeover

[Burnley1989]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TyBracey/sta ... 5726609411

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Bolton had all but a tiny amount of debt absolved on the takeover - there was a clause for additional payment on promotion to the Premier League, the new owners quickly made sure that was unlikely - I am not sure if the new owners had control of the stadium and if not you question the leverage further

The cause of the debt was still there though wasn't it, with a wage bill that exceeded the incoming monies.

[jrgbfc]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TyBracey/sta ... 5726609411

Dyche been schooled there if it actually happened

[Burnley1989]

Dyche been schooled there if it actually happened

Really hope it did, it’s brilliant

[Chester Perry]

So in reality none have them have been particularly successful. Even a club the size of Manchester United have lost £1 billion as a result of that takeover

depends on your view of success - United are not the same trophy machine, but that has improved the Premier League spectacle, they are solvent, generate more commercial money than either tv or matchday and that could be more than TV and Matchday, regularly in a post Covid world, which relates to the this I posted on the MMT thread when i was asked if the football bubble had burst

I think we are in a stall period for the next few years for most, I expect the truly big clubs to widen the gap, for many commercial revenue is the biggest source of income already, I expect the norm for them is that it will exceed 50% or even 60% of their income at Bayern it is already more than 50%, that is with full matchday income back on stream.

for the Glazers the United takeover has been very successful too, their only fear is missing out on the Champions League 2 years running - the commercial penalties and loss of TV revenue would be north of £150m possibly even £200m

At this stage for United you have to ask if the circa £40m (Interest payments and dividends) they shed each season would improve them.

the big cloud hanging over the Glazers is the state of Old Trafford, it is in need of a major refurb, if only to increase it's non seat earning capability, Spurs have taken that to an entirely new level.

The key is that they have done enough to effectively end a lot of the protests and the breakaway FC United seems to have had little material impact

[Devils_Advocate]

Really hope it did, it’s brilliant

We'll be able to tell if Dyche secretly posts on here if we see McGinn added to the players that get under your skin thread

[Chester Perry]

The cause of the debt was still there though wasn't it, with a wage bill that exceeded the incoming monies.

and owners/fans not willing to do anything about it

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Part of the reason for Utd not winning so much can be put down to Fergie leaving and their choices of managers, signings and structure of the club.

[Chester Perry]

Part of the reason for Utd not winning so much can be put down to Fergie leaving and their choices of managers, signings and structure of the club.

Owners are responsible for that though aren't they - they and Ed Woodward are not football specialists and it is that that can undo all the other things they bring in - I was worried by the announcement of Neil Hart last year and have seen nothing to ease that, now we have a very different presence in the boardroom and no football knowledge experience from the Chief Exec - think about the loss of David Dein at Arsenal and David Gill at Manchester United. The smartest bit of the NSWE takeover at Aston Villa was Christian Purslow, equally look how Trevor Birch settled Swansea in his tenure, also look at Everton without an experienced football executive in charge at the club, it is a really significant call.