Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
September 1922 and at the Sir John Thursby Estate Auction, Burnley FC buy Turf moor and the Cricket ground for £8,000.
Turf Moor went for £4,500 and the Cricket ground £3,500. What a bargain!
Turf Moor went for £4,500 and the Cricket ground £3,500. What a bargain!
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Interesting that the club also bought the cricket ground as well, shame they didn't hold onto it.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Very interesting find. Enjoyed reading it. Are you researching anything in particular Mike or trawling the archive?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
When did the football club sell the cricket ground?
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I thought they tried to buy the cricket ground a few years ago for future developments to the CFS.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
So we own the cricket club as well?
Great! We can relocate Burnley CC and redevelop Turf Moor properly...
Great! We can relocate Burnley CC and redevelop Turf Moor properly...
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Wouldn't make sense for the cricket club to sell to BFC
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Researching the last season of Tommy Boyle 1922-23 for a film Elwa from the British Library online newspapers this story cropped up in the BUrnley News in September 1922. Thursby owned a lot of land in the town and some of Burnleys pits and there had been speculation in 1922 as to what would happen to Turf Moor.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:34 pmVery interesting find. Enjoyed reading it. Are you researching anything in particular Mike or trawling the archive?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Not sure Tony - but it’s interesting that the football club bought both lots in 1922. At the time the club had a balance of around £24,000 in the bank but on the previous season posted a profit of only £137. Players wages were increasing and Burnleys gates falling with the Depression, strikes, etc.
I would guess we sold the cricket ground from 1930 when BUrnley were relegated to raise income.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
We agreed to buy the freehold land of Burnley Cricket Club in 2000, in principle, and the value then was £1.25m. That never happened for whatever reason.
Lancashire Telegraph article from August 2000 where Clive Holt was talking about redeveloping the Cricket Field Stand (21 years ago!!!!!), plus the Bob Lord Stand, and taking our capacity closer to 30,000.
Below that is mention of the discussions in the BCC official company accounts.
Lancashire Telegraph article from August 2000 where Clive Holt was talking about redeveloping the Cricket Field Stand (21 years ago!!!!!), plus the Bob Lord Stand, and taking our capacity closer to 30,000.
Below that is mention of the discussions in the BCC official company accounts.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Now they would want nearer 10m I'd imagine.Claretforever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:13 pmWe agreed to buy the freehold land of Burnley Cricket Club in 2000, in principle, and the value then was £1.25m. That never happened for whatever reason.
Lancashire Telegraph article from August 2000 where Clive Holt was talking about redeveloping the Cricket Field Stand (21 years ago!!!!!), plus the Bob Lord Stand, and taking our capacity closer to 30,000.
Below that is mention of the discussions in the BCC official company accounts.
Although I think its needed IMO if we are to get the facilities into the 21st century.
The land could be used to redevelop the stand itself and in turn the changing rooms, fan access as well as possibly more corporate opportunities.
Plenty of land left over to build club stores, ticket offices, fan bar, parking etc
Its frightening the amount of land the cricket club has, and also the car park beging the next match board.
In turn it could also see the Bob Lord gain a much needed revamp and face lift as I'm sure you would be able to make any new structure then dove tail into a newer Bob Lord stand again with more and better corporate facilities.
It's one of the best purchases we could make, and has been for the last decade.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I’d forgotten that in 2000 but it was a few years later, 2005 I think, when we tried to move the cricket club onto Fulledge Rec.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
It’s mentioned in the same article from 2000. Time flies...ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:15 pmI’d forgotten that in 2000 but it was a few years later, 2005 I think, when we tried to move the cricket club onto Fulledge Rec.
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... cket-club/
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I’ve looked back and found reference to it. I’m not sure it got very far but the one a few years later went as far as the cricket club bringing in a company to design the new ground. In the end, the potential new ground wouldn’t have been big enough.Claretforever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:27 pmIt’s mentioned in the same article from 2000. Time flies...
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... cket-club/
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
TONY:
Just done a search ad it looks like Burnley CC became a limited company in 1925 and they posted their first years figures the following year 1926. Before that in 1924 the club reported that since the war the club had lost approx £1,500 and needed to raise funds through a share offer. They first wanted to raise £5,000 but this later increased to £6,000.
In March 1926 the club had raised just short of the £5,000 but over a thousand shares had not been taken up but it looks likely that an agreement to buy the ground from the Football Club was made then. Would need to see the income figures for BFC for 1926-7 to see if the sum arrived in that years accounts.
The Burnley Express 12 July 1924 21 October 1924 Burnley News March 6 1926
Just done a search ad it looks like Burnley CC became a limited company in 1925 and they posted their first years figures the following year 1926. Before that in 1924 the club reported that since the war the club had lost approx £1,500 and needed to raise funds through a share offer. They first wanted to raise £5,000 but this later increased to £6,000.
In March 1926 the club had raised just short of the £5,000 but over a thousand shares had not been taken up but it looks likely that an agreement to buy the ground from the Football Club was made then. Would need to see the income figures for BFC for 1926-7 to see if the sum arrived in that years accounts.
The Burnley Express 12 July 1924 21 October 1924 Burnley News March 6 1926
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Tottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
What happened at Tottenham was extremely heavy handed - it was noticeable just how much they targeted their attending fans and immediate community to develop their financial growth - all but eradicating small local business at a local trading estate - wanting to redevelop the high street environment around them by building a new shopping centre that is in keeping with their preferred image (and rents) - to bulldozing local shops to provide a more direct pedestrianised route from the renamed White Hart Lane StationDuffer_ wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pmTottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
It did seem strange that they managed to persuade TLC to change the name of the station to White Hart Lane while doing all they can to obliterate the name White Hart Lane from the ground because they wanted to make more money from sponsorship.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:54 amWhat happened at Tottenham was extremely heavy handed - it was noticeable just how much they targeted their attending fans and immediate community to develop their financial growth - all but eradicating small local business at a local trading estate - wanting to redevelop the high street environment around them by building a new shopping centre that is in keeping with their preferred image (and rents) - to bulldozing local shops to provide a more direct pedestrianised route from the renamed White Hart Lane Station
As for Burnley CC, they were all but bankrupt at the end of WW1 and seriously considered dropping out of the league. Burnley St Andrew;s were mooted as a possible replacement. The share capital issue was a final desperate attempt to raise funds (which worked, obviously) and explains why BFC is the only one of the 14 long standing Lancs League clubs to be a limited company.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I seem to remember there were some convenient fires too.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
At least if Clive Holt is not involved in any ground redevelopments, we have a chance that a new stand will at least be in the right place....
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I hope we eventually buy the cricket club...that land is golddust,unfortunately the cricket club know that.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Didn't Walker do similar at Blackburn, forcing a business out to develop the Darwen End?Duffer_ wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pmTottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Yes he did. There was a carpet mill behind the Darwen end, where the Coach park is now. Walker bought the mill and closed it down. I use to deliver there.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:44 amDidn't Walker do similar at Blackburn, forcing a business out to develop the Darwen End?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I thought it was an old mill but I couldn't be sure but I do know that Walker's actions meant people losing jobs.RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:12 amYes he did. There was a carpet mill behind the Darwen end, where the Coach park is now. Walker bought the mill and closed it down. I use to deliver there.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
And their homes too from memory - didn't they knock down houses on Nuttall Street to build a new stand?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:20 amI thought it was an old mill but I couldn't be sure but I do know that Walker's actions meant people losing jobs.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
A lot of houses went on Nuttall Street including the manager's office which was in one of those houses. I'm not so sure of the circumstances with that though.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:44 amAnd their homes too from memory - didn't they knock down houses on Nuttall Street to build a new stand?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
A dead body was found burried in one of the back yards.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:51 amA lot of houses went on Nuttall Street including the manager's office which was in one of those houses. I'm not so sure of the circumstances with that though.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Good memory claretandy - it held everything up while it was investigated. Hadn't it been there a long time?claretandy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:19 amA dead body was found burried in one of the back yards.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Interesting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I thought someone was convicted of manslaughter over that body which I think was that of a teenager missing for several years
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I can't answer this but there are people on this board who are able to find lists of shareholders.jsclaret wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 amInteresting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
there is no list of shareholders at companies house - I suspect you would have to write to the club secretary - details linkedjsclaret wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 amInteresting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 7/officers
There was a change of the Articles of association in 2005 and that prevented dividend's being paid to shareholders and also director's from being paid, it also prevents Shareholders/Directors from receiving any payment from the club even on dissolution. Effectively the shares are worthless from what I see. I suspect this was done as a result of the proposed sale at the time.
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ory?page=4
On a slightly separate note, Burnley Cricket Club (Bar) limited posted a set of accounts last week that show how Covid has impacted them, they have £48k of debtors up from a couple of hundred pounds in the previous ones (members fees/sponsors fees?) and have taken out a £50k bank loan
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
Last edited by Chester Perry on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
According to the report on the clubs first AGM in 1926, There were 6,000 shares at £1 each when the offer was made in 1924. Some 4,700 were taken up leaving them short of their target and these were offered again in 1926.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Thanks for the information.
Not sure how the shares could be classed as effectively worthless when they own a valuable piece of land. As we know anyone could come along and acquire a majority shareholding if they make the right offer.
Not sure I would sell though due to family links to the cricket club in the past!
Not sure how the shares could be classed as effectively worthless when they own a valuable piece of land. As we know anyone could come along and acquire a majority shareholding if they make the right offer.
Not sure I would sell though due to family links to the cricket club in the past!
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
like I said any sale of assets can no longer benefit shareholders/directors - read the change in the Articles of Associations as I said - even if the club is dissolved the funds would go to the cricket family, it is very explicit with those details, all in the first two pages of the documentjsclaret wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:17 pmThanks for the information.
Not sure how the shares could be classed as effectively worthless when they own a valuable piece of land. As we know anyone could come along and acquire a majority shareholding if they make the right offer.
Not sure I would sell though due to family links to the cricket club in the past!
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... cc41324b68
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Now that's what I call custodianship! Well played BCC.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:25 pmlike I said any sale of assets can no longer benefit shareholders/directors - read the change in the Articles of Associations as I said - even if the club is dissolved the funds would go to the cricket family, it is very explicit with those details, all in the first two pages of the document
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
You can see shareholdings here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0jsclaret wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 amInteresting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere
5,996 shares issued. Some random ones in there: United News & Media PLC who don't exist any more, JC Decaux and 240 shares held by Burnley Football Club Ltd (which I assume is the football club even though the name is wrong).
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Pt also stops a group from forcing the sale of the ground for personal profit, though theoretically someone could buy all the shares and change the articles of association again
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Interesting amendment ( direct link here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0 ). Seems a bit of a bodge to try and change it to something akin to a Company limited by GuaranteeChester Perry wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:14 pmthere is no list of shareholders at companies house - I suspect you would have to write to the club secretary - details linked
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 7/officers
There was a change of the Articles of association in 2005 and that prevented dividend's being paid to shareholders and also director's from being paid, it also prevents Shareholders/Directors from receiving any payment from the club even on dissolution. Effectively the shares are worthless from what I see. I suspect this was done as a result of the proposed sale at the time.
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ory?page=4
On a slightly separate note, Burnley Cricket Club (Bar) limited posted a set of accounts last week that show how Covid has impacted them, they have £48k of debtors up from a couple of hundred pounds in the previous ones (members fees/sponsors fees?) and have taken out a £50k bank loan
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I beg your pardon ?
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I may be wrong but I think that was all done with the intention of becoming a CASC and taking the befits that come with such a structure for sports clubs.aggi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:43 pmInteresting amendment ( direct link here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0 ). Seems a bit of a bodge to try and change it to something akin to a Company limited by Guarantee
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.aggi wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:38 pmYou can see shareholdings here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0
5,996 shares issued. Some random ones in there: United News & Media PLC who don't exist any more, JC Decaux and 240 shares held by Burnley Football Club Ltd (which I assume is the football club even though the name is wrong).
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
There is a Brian Miller listed - could it be the BFC legend?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:51 amI know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
Yes, the amendment seems very much in line with that requirement.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:03 amI may be wrong but I think that was all done with the intention of becoming a CASC and taking the befits that come with such a structure for sports clubs.
Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I imagine it's very out of date. People aren't going to bother notifying the club for the sake of a share or two that are pretty much worthless.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:51 amI know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.
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Re: Turf Moor and Cricket Ground SOLD
I'm certain it will be - he was a keen supporter of the cricket club at one time and David played for the first team a few times.Herts Clarets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:01 amThere is a Brian Miller listed - could it be the BFC legend?