“A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:13 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 am
Supporters groups from all six English clubs have come out with strongly worded statements denouncing the move

might sound daft, could be an opportunity for us to pick up some fans, there will be plenty that don't go to OT and City for sure

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:14 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 am
Supporters groups from all six English clubs have come out with strongly worded statements denouncing the move

Let's see if various Club legends " respond ", I should imagine Bobby Charlton's and or Fergie's resignation from his Director's role of the Football Club ( They are not Directors of the controlling body " Manchester Utd Football Club Ltd " ) would create quite an impact, as would words from Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool ...

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:24 am

The remaining 86 professional Engish clubs need to break away from these 6 profiteering, monopolizing, anti-competition traitors.

No qualification? No relegation? Football without competition? What's the point?

Ban the 6 from the new 86 club football league until they renege. Heck, invite those uppity two ferkin Scottish clubs to join the FL unless they fancy the stupid super league nonsense.

The six who've signed this can be waved away to their silly euroland of no relegation. Nobody will want to watch it.

We can return to having a truly competitive Football League.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:25 am

Clarets4me wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:14 am
Let's see if various Club legends " respond ", I should imagine Bobby Charlton's and or Fergie's resignation from his Director's role of the Football Club ( They are not Directors of the controlling body " Manchester Utd Football Club Ltd " ) would create quite an impact, as would words from Kenny Dalglish at Liverpool ...

Won't make a difference, these foreign owners don't give a crap now they've had a better offer

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:25 am

A great thread from the Telegraph's Sam Wallace on today's news

https://twitter.com/SamWallaceTel/statu ... 4933154820

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:26 am

Rowls wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:24 am
The remaining 86 professional Engish clubs need to break away from these 6 profiteering, monopolizing, anti-competition traitors.

No qualification? No relegation? Football without competition? What's the point?

Ban the 6 from the new 86 club football league until they renege. Heck, invite those uppity two ferkin Scottish clubs to join the FL unless they fancy the stupid super league nonsense.

The six who've signed this can be waved away to their silly euroland of no relegation. Nobody will want to watch it.

We can return to having a truly competitive Football League.

agree with all that other than the Rangers and Celtic part

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:31 am

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:13 am
might sound daft, could be an opportunity for us to pick up some fans, there will be plenty that don't go to OT and City for sure

Spartak Moscow are already inviting them to support their club

https://twitter.com/fcsm_eng/status/1383918686302466049

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:34 am

With Bayer, Dortmund and PSG refusing to join, do you think there will be a franchise auction for the places they would have occupied - naturally the proceeds go to the other permanent members in the classic American approach

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:36 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:31 am
Spartak Moscow are already inviting them to support their club

https://twitter.com/fcsm_eng/status/1383918686302466049

not as good as the Crawley one - they replied to the Arsenal tweet !! https://twitter.com/crawleytown/status/ ... 33509?s=20

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:36 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:34 am
With Bayer, Dortmund and PSG refusing to join, do you think there will be a franchise auction for the places they would have occupied - naturally the proceeds go to the other permanent members in the classic American approach

like I said earlier in the thread, this is proper NFL stuff.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:42 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:30 pm
The sums discussed are astronomical

and some absolute gold dust PR flannel too

Closer inspection reveals the Euro 10 Billion of Solidarity Payments is over a very long period in reality the benefit the whole of the European football pyramid amount to just €434m per year.

- that is so much like the crap they got the EFL to bite with Project Big Picture

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:50 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:40 pm
bizarre that they think over half of the worlds population support just 12 teams

There have been suggestions through the day that this is being financed by Saudi Arabian sources - the sums being talked about suggest few others could afford such seed funding

There is an enormous amount of bot activity on social media supporting the Super League announcement - which to my mind increases the lielihood of Saudi money financing the project

all starts the same way "The super league is a good idea and will revolutionize football"

https://twitter.com/nikpostinger/status ... 3557721091

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:52 am

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:36 am
not as good as the Crawley one - they replied to the Arsenal tweet !! https://twitter.com/crawleytown/status/ ... 33509?s=20

liked this one in the replies to that

https://twitter.com/CoreySpanos/status/ ... 4355235841

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:57 am

And this is about as clear as it can get to those who want to be part of the mega rich club

https://twitter.com/11tomcull/status/13 ... 7861747712

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:58 am

AFTV is a good watch, they aren't happy at all !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBsfJ2hmDsQ

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:00 am

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:50 am
We know that the Super League is serious because they have launched their own official website - I suspect someone has made a few bob selling that web address to them

https://thesuperleague.com/

add a twitter account with no posts yet nearly 50k followers already

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:03 am

imagine being in the super league though - how thoroughly boring, where is your "big game", where is the "special night". Footy is ******

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:34 am

Gary Neville podcast, we even get a little mention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKX8lmAUAA

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:26 am

joey13 wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:36 pm
You really haven’t a clue ,have you

Is that Salfords. Gary "all managers should be given at least two years" Neville, you appear to be pinning your trust on?

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:52 am

Can we not just tell them to feck off if they want ? Though it’s a hornets nest for the big corps like SKY who worship the big 6 ,yet won’t really want to be seen supporting a ESL. I notice JP Morgan have stumped up the 5 Billion seed cap , wether they’re on board as investors or simply lenders I’m not so sure ?

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:11 am

The reality is football has become virtually money oriented the formation of Premier League to the detriment of the Domestic Cups. Would ALL have invested without the money on offer. If this European Super League starts which I expect it will in some guise there will be a revaluation of the Premier League.

Other Sports broke away in Cricket with Packer, Darts with PDC and Rugby League with Super League and they were all successful on a viewing basis. So personally rather fight it and put up barriers if it happens the premier league should work with the European Super League or it could become the BDO of football

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:19 am

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:13 am
might sound daft, could be an opportunity for us to pick up some fans, there will be plenty that don't go to OT and City for sure

That crossed my mind too. Some clubs are already tweeting suchlike.

We haven’t commented at all. We’re often slow off the mark in that respect & miss good PR opportunities.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:34 am

I (mainly) agree with Rowls' sentiments above.

The Premier League should immediately put the 6 clubs on notice and start looking at restructuring the league to accommodate their departure.

Utd and Liverpool will be a miss but does anyone really care whether or not we play City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea?

It would also help if supporters got together and announced that they wouldn't subscribe to any broadcaster that picked up the new league.

However much money gets poured into this project, it will be a pittance to those clubs that are owned by oil-rich countries who presumably will no longer have to engineer inventive ways to circumvent financial rules. Liverpool, Spurs and Utd will have virtually no chance of winning it, but their owners will get considerably richer whilst they battle it out for 4th place.

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:38 am

The problem I see is those clubs still playing in the Premier league. Say arsenal are 4th in the table, therefore with nothing to play for, are playing a team threatened with relegation on Saturday, but with a super league game against Barcelona looming on Wednesday... Which game will their focus be on? Very unfair on other teams near the bottom.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:45 am

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:19 am
That crossed my mind too. Some clubs are already tweeting suchlike.

We haven’t commented at all. We’re often slow off the mark in that respect & miss good PR opportunities.

But how embarrassing would that be “ come and support Burnley now Man Utd are off the the ESL” could anyone but the flakiest replica shirt wearing “modern fan” really consider swapping clubs ?

taio · Post by **taio** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:45 am

No doubt this is going to be very complex, but if doable I agree entirely that the Premier League should signal that they will be imminently issuing notice of termination in relation to their Premier League status. All relevant authorities, associations, supporters groups and key individuals should come together and throw the kitchen sink at opposing this for the good of the game.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:47 am

Grumps wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:26 am
Is that Salfords. Gary "all managers should be given at least two years" Neville, you appear to be pinning your trust on?
[/

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:49 am

joey13 wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:47 am
You keep carrying on making a fool of yourself

In what way?

Marney&Mee · Post by **Marney&Mee** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:50 am

Andrew McGregor
Legal Director and Sport Sector Head of Football at Brabners LLP

I wonder if certain clubs considering participation in a certain independent football competition, in contravention of FIFA, UEFA and Premier League rules, have considered the impact on player contracts?

Clause 6.1.1 of the standard Premier League player contract (which means this features in every Premier League player's contract) states, in the section titled 'Obligations of the Club':

"The club shall observe the Rules, all of which (other than the Club Rules) shall take precedence over the Club Rules"

Rules is defined as "the statutes and regulations of FIFA and UEFA the FA Rules the League Rules the Code of Practice and the Club Rules".

If the clubs are in breach of contract by this move then no doubt this puts the players in a very interesting position.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:53 am

The 6 breakaway clubs have worked hard to establish themselves as global brands attractive to overseas fans and audiences.

How attractive and marketable will the Premier League continue to be as a brand without these 6 clubs? Will fans in Asia still want to watch a Premier League minus the big 6? If Sky cannot continue to grow the PL brand less TV money available and less attractive to investors at other clubs.

Obscene amounts of money offered in sport distort and dilute the product being offered elsewhere. Owners and trainers can now earn more money if their horse runs and finishes 10th in a race in Dubai than they can by running and winning a prestigious race in Britain. The outcome being that races like the Winter Derby run at Lingfield is unable to attract a high class field of runners for their meeting held on Good Friday.

If a club is being offered 5 times more prize money for finishing 6th in a Europe Super League than they will get for winning the PL then the domestic product becomes diluted and less attractive to fans.

The 6 breakaway clubs are banking on the Premier League not expelling them and diluting their own brand in the process. Effectively, not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:57 am

How on earth have a club like Spurs become a global brand when there are other clubs such as Aston Villa who have achieved far more success in the game?

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:00 am

I am sure far more fans in Asia tune in to watch Son play for Spurs than they do to watch Aston Villa.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:08 am

Regardless of how many TV adverts Anthony Joshua appears in urging people to "shop locally and support local businesses" all of that goes out of the window when it comes to staging the world heavyweight clash with Tyson Fury. That will be staged in Dubai or in whichever country offers the most obscene amounts of money. In the end "Cash is King".

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:17 am

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:53 am
The 6 breakaway clubs have worked hard to establish themselves as global brands attractive to overseas fans and audiences.

...

The 6 breakaway clubs are banking on the Premier League not expelling them and diluting their own brand in the process. Effectively, not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I agree with this but imagine a Premier League where these 6 clubs had vastly increased spending power because of their participation in a new Super League. The Prem keeps its broadcast money (probably - what happens when it's Liverpool vs. Utd. on a Wednesday night in the ESL then the same fixture again in the Prem on the Saturday...), but at the cost of any notion of fair competition.

I really think that the leagues and governing bodies need to come together now and offer a unified response. Serve notice on participation in domestic leagues, and signal a ban on any players from representing their national teams if they play in the ESL. All before they've got their quota of 20 clubs lined up.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:22 am

Wonder whether players will come out against this?? Or be told to voice their support by their greedy clubs?

Will be interesting to see what Rashford has to say.

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:25 am

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:22 am
Wonder whether players will come out against this?? Or be told to voice their support by their greedy clubs?

Will be interesting to see what Rashford has to say.

“Marcus, here’s another £800k/week to feed the school kids you care about so much”

“Oh, ok thanks”

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:26 am

Sproggy wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:17 am
I agree with this but imagine a Premier League where these 6 clubs had vastly increased spending power because of their participation in a new Super League. The Prem keeps its broadcast money (probably - what happens when it's Liverpool vs. Utd. on a Wednesday night in the ESL then the same fixture again in the Prem on the Saturday...), but at the cost of any notion of fair competition.

I really think that the leagues and governing bodies need to come together now and offer a unified response. Serve notice on participation in domestic leagues, and signal a ban on any players from representing their national teams if they play in the ESL. All before they've got their quota of 20 clubs lined up.

I agree with much of what you have posted. Once again it all comes down to money. If the prize money is greater for finishing 3rd or 4th in the Europe Super League than it is for winning the Premier League then obviously clubs will prioritise finishing positions in the ESL over the PL, diluting the domestic competition in the process. At the end of the day the owners are running these clubs as a business to make money.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:29 am

Zlatan wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:25 am
“Marcus, here’s another £800k/week to feed the school kids you care about so much”

“Oh, ok thanks”

We’ll soon see where Marcus “man of the people” Rashford morals lie now.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 am

Yep, when you look at the news that has broke in the last few hours with regards this Rashford is definitely the person who should be targeted.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:33 am

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:00 am
I am sure far more fans in Asia tune in to watch Son play for Spurs than they do to watch Aston Villa.

Suppose Son played for Aston Villa though!!!!

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:36 am

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:00 am
I am sure far more fans in Asia tune in to watch Son play for Spurs than they do to watch Aston Villa.

Would Son want to stay at Spurs though if he's banned from playing for South Korea? Would they tune in to watch him play in a competition nobody recognises apart from some of their fans and by what I am reading a lot of fans of these clubs would stop supporting them. He'd become another random South Korean rather than a representative of his nation.
Not often I agree with Neville but they all need to be heavily sanctioned now and if they choose to go ahead. Kicked out of the league. With a notation that when it fails and it would. They can apply to join again but will have to start at the bottom of the pyramid.
I personally don't care if they do leave but they can't have their cake and eat it. Kick them out of the league and ban all players from representing their nations.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:39 am

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:26 am
I agree with much of what you have posted. Once again it all comes down to money. If the prize money is greater for finishing 3rd or 4th in the Europe Super League than it is for winning the Premier League then obviously clubs will prioritise finishing positions in the ESL over the PL, diluting the domestic competition in the process. At the end of the day the owners are running these clubs as a business to make money.

Yep, it's pretty much no-win financially for the domestic leagues (La Liga without Real and Barcelona.....).

Let them go and there's going to be an inevitable drop in broadcast revenue.

Keep them in and the competition is skewed even more and as others have said probably gets treated like the FA Cup for these teams when they have big midweek games coming up. I'm not sure it will hold the same attraction to overseas viewers who can watch the teams they want to watch in the ESL. I can't see broadcast revenue holding up in this case either.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:39 am

I’m furious about this, but weirdly excited that if “football” combined and responded with appropriate sanctions it might be just what football needs.

I hope they relegate all six teams involved, promote the Championship top six and hit them where it hurts for a couple of seasons before they actually get their acts together and set this up. Sure the whole of the country would unite behind a Prem without these money grabbing ****s.

Boss Hogg · Post by **Boss Hogg** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:42 am

Like the way Martin Samuel of The Daily Mail puts it... ‘ a plastic competition for plastic fans of plastic clubs’

Pure greed that kills everything good about football. These foreign owners aren’t proper fans and the clubs have become playthings. I don’t watch the drawn out Champions League but there must be demand for it but probably by people that don’t attend games ever and match on to ‘big’ clubs pretending to be fans.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:43 am

The Premier League is marketed globally by Sky and other TV partners as the "best most competitive league in world football"

The product will be greatly diluted if the 6 clubs are kicked out making it far less attractive to sell overseas, meaning a huge drop in revenue for Sky and less money available to clubs remaining and playing in the PL.

How important is TV revenue to the new owners of Burnley?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:45 am

jedi_master wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:24 pm
The frustrating thing is, the Premier League will not kick them out and we all know it - just as the clubs themselves do.

Of course it’s what everyone would love to see happen (bar the fans of those clubs) but they are ‘the product’. They are why the TV money is what it is, they are why Sky have seen fit to broadcast every game this season when Covid made it possible and they are, single handedly, keeping Sky subscriptions going. No big six, no product (in the eyes of the dickheads that organise our sport anyway).

It’s a hollow threat they’d never follow through on, and that’s the reason I believe this Super League will happen. It’s brinksmanship from the 12 clubs to get more money from UEFA for the Champions League and if they don’t blink they will make their own new European competition instead of participating in the Champions League. I do not believe for one second that the FA will boot them out of the FA Cup, nor do I believe that the Premier League will remove them from this division. Stopping players playing internationally also sounds borderline illegal, again, a hollow threat.

Just my opinion - I’d love to see them stripped of being allowed to ever participate in our pyramid system again for this but I’m a realist and the power they wield will never go away. We all know how corrupt this league is, any pretence that the league holds the power/balls/integrity to follow through with what is being suggested will soon go up in smoke.

If there is enough groundswell of support for booting them out, they will. The FA just need to know they are not going to get any backlash from their actions. It will be interesting to see which, if any, clubs outside the top 6 vote on their side. The thought of greasy palms to placate enough to get approval is overwhelming.
I hope Alan Pace can see this from the fans point of view, and not that of an American business man. Should we vote for this I would be disgusted.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:45 am

Three thoughts having slept on this:

1. The timing of Mike Garlick and co is superb from their perspective - whether the big six leave or the government bans majority corporate ownership (I’ve now read the government is looking at the Germany 50%+1 option which I suggested last night), one of those things will happen, both would have hammered shareholder value.

2. The speed with which the government and opposition are all over this is showing there could be a major shift in government involvement in sport, mirroring other sectors (buses, trains and, 10-15 years ago, banks).

3. This is globalisation showing its face again, but the culture has now changed away from this. I agree with earlier posters that the big hedge funds and financiers always seem to be one step ahead, and maybe their exposure if this goes wrong is minimal, but I have a hunch that the world is changing and the wealthy middle class are often the last to realise it. This won’t go back to the 2020 Premier League model, this will result in something different. What that is depends on who has the biggest balls.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 am

Chris Williams
@Chris78Williams
·
1h
Speaking to people in UEFA this morning there is a genuine want for the 12 to be immediately dismissed from all UEFA club competitions - and for Real, Barcelona, AC Milan and Liverpool to be stripped of their badges of honour. Suffice to say there are a lot of angry people there.

They should do the same with any players as well.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:48 am

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:53 am

Obscene amounts of money offered in sport distort and dilute the product being offered elsewhere. Owners and trainers can now earn more money if their horse runs and finishes 10th in a race in Dubai than they can by running and winning a prestigious race in Britain. The outcome being that races like the Winter Derby run at Lingfield is unable to attract a high class field of runners for their meeting held on Good Friday.

I agree with you to a large extent but the difference with Horse Racing is the prestige I.e my horse is the best and and the love of the sport rather than money as most owners lose money, these foreign football owners have invested purely for the money. In horse racing a NH Jumper who has been gelded is not being traded for large sums purely for the prize money. You mentioned the Winter Derby and I presume the horse you alluded to was Bangkok who won the Winter Derby trial race in early February to then skip the Winter Derby late February for the Saudi race, but the winter Derby race was only worth £55k to the winner and he received an entry on 20th Feb for an entry to Saudi race worth over £4mil to the winner. Bangkok did come back to win the Easter Classic at Lingfield on Good Friday.

The money in football now has altered the game with clubs spending extortionate amounts of money in salaries and transfers to get a seat at the top table and by structuring the payments will make it harder for teams to break in. Barry Kirby wrote in a programme prior to our first promotion that the parachute payments system needed reform as it was totally unfair to us, yet when we got to the table I cannot remember him speaking out against it or pushing for reform.