BPF
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Re: BPF
Didn't watch the game, but I've just seen the goals.
1st and 4th not great goalkeeping, but the other two were not BPF's fault at all.
But i think there's more to losing this game than relying on our 2nd choice keeper to keep us in it.
1st and 4th not great goalkeeping, but the other two were not BPF's fault at all.
But i think there's more to losing this game than relying on our 2nd choice keeper to keep us in it.
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Re: BPF
He was clearly unsighted by our player, (Tarks I think), Gordon Banks in his prime would have struggled to react from the ball coming into view and flying in... I thought he was sharp to get as close as he did tbh.
He’s not the finished article, but how could he be. Far too early to judge him, not that he’s done badly for me up to now.
Last edited by elwaclaret on Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BPF
I'd have to watch it again from a better angle, just seemed to take an age to go in and that was the only place he could've scored. Maybe I'm being harsh thoelwaclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:23 pmHe was clearly unsighted by (our player, I think) Gordon Banks in his prime would have struggled to react from the ball coming into view and flying in... I thought he was sharp to get as close as he did tbh.
He’s not the finished article, but how could he be. Far too early to judge him, not that he’s done badly for me up to now.
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Re: BPF
It’s worth looking from behind the goal camera, keepers view. Until the ball came around our player there was no telling what direction he should dive... chances were there would be a block attempt of some kind deflecting it. - that was my thought anyway
Re: BPF
Weird because I'd often find myself defending Hart, now i'm being critical of BPF for the same thing. I think Pope has given me an unrealistic view on goalkeeping ability, I need to remind myself, there are very few Nick Pope's around.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:28 pmIt’s worth looking from behind the goal camera, keepers view. Until the ball came around our player there was no telling what direction he should dive... chances were there would be a block attempt of some kind deflecting it. - that was my thought anyway
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Re: BPF
Must admit to not paying too much attention but what is his communication like ? That's what set the likes of Heaton and Pope apart in our team where organization is key
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Re: BPF
Certainly been spoiled, even Hart couldn’t command Heaton like respect, Pope is just a guy who is so level headed he commands respect from his peers, even the England players are largely in awe of him being so unruffleable... and then you get BPF trying to make his way in the team and working with a defence who instinctively know what Pope needs them to do, but it isn’t necessarily the same BPF needs them to do.
Like I said far too soon to judge him.
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Re: BPF
Just dont see where anyone has seen anything to give them any confidence he will be a premier league goalkeeper.
He now has conceded 14 goals in 4 starts.
For context Pope has conceded just 37 in 32!
Its not just the saves. And people can blame the poor efforts in defence. Its the positioning, leadership, organisation etc.
Hope he makes it. But I just dont see it even at this stage.
He now has conceded 14 goals in 4 starts.
For context Pope has conceded just 37 in 32!
Its not just the saves. And people can blame the poor efforts in defence. Its the positioning, leadership, organisation etc.
Hope he makes it. But I just dont see it even at this stage.
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Re: BPF
Well as long as it was only 2 goals he messed up on then that’s not so bad.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 7:37 pmDidn't watch the game, but I've just seen the goals.
1st and 4th not great goalkeeping, but the other two were not BPF's fault at all.
But i think there's more to losing this game than relying on our 2nd choice keeper to keep us in it.
Re: BPF
He only messed up on the 4th. The 1st goal - perhaps Pope may have saved it. I don't know.djemba-djemba wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 11:23 pmWell as long as it was only 2 goals he messed up on then that’s not so bad.
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Re: BPF
The 14 in 4 does include 2 of them games away to the 2 best sides in the country/league, if we are using stats let’s tell the full story, I’m not suggesting he’s better than NP but as far as reserve keepers go he isn’t that bad.cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 11:03 pmJust dont see where anyone has seen anything to give them any confidence he will be a premier league goalkeeper.
He now has conceded 14 goals in 4 starts.
For context Pope has conceded just 37 in 32!
Its not just the saves. And people can blame the poor efforts in defence. Its the positioning, leadership, organisation etc.
Hope he makes it. But I just dont see it even at this stage.
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Re: BPF
I feel sorry for him.. on the few occasions he gets a chance, the whole defence seems to book the day off.. I'm confident he'll be an asset and more importantly Billy Mercer does too
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Re: BPF
Regardless of opposition. I honestly haven’t seen anything to suggest he isn’t that bad.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 11:49 pmThe 14 in 4 does include 2 of them games away to the 2 best sides in the country/league, if we are using stats let’s tell the full story, I’m not suggesting he’s better than NP but as far as reserve keepers go he isn’t that bad.
His positioning is poor. He has no presence. And appears to concede more than his share of saveable goals.
I know we have been blessed with keepers in recent times.
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Re: BPF
It’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then, as a reserve keeper he’s probably the best we can get, anybody better would want to start & would start even if it meant the championship, I don’t mind him occasionally playing he won’t be on anything like joe hart as well. I look at things from all different angles generally.cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:10 amRegardless of opposition. I honestly haven’t seen anything to suggest he isn’t that bad.
His positioning is poor. He has no presence. And appears to concede more than his share of saveable goals.
I know we have been blessed with keepers in recent times.
Re: BPF
If you look at all different angles you completely missed the obvious angle of Pope could be sold and BPF could've been brought in to eventually replace him.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:31 amIt’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then,
I look at things from all different angles generally.
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Re: BPF
Missing no obvious angles at all because I believe if pope was sold another keeper would come in, but I’m not worrying about something which hasn’t happened & might not even happen.
Re: BPF
Big saves at important times changes the flow, and or wins points. BPF is yet to do that, but I'm sure he will.
Also a solid well drilled back 5 is so important, and regardless if him being here quite a while you often need a prolonged period together to get used to how each individual works.
Communication, organisation, what theyll come for and when etc all needs and takes real game time
He's obviously not a premier league number 1 yet, but I trust Billy Mercer's judgement as he's a great track record, so let's just let him do his magic, I'm sure itll work out well in the end, it usually does.
Also a solid well drilled back 5 is so important, and regardless if him being here quite a while you often need a prolonged period together to get used to how each individual works.
Communication, organisation, what theyll come for and when etc all needs and takes real game time
He's obviously not a premier league number 1 yet, but I trust Billy Mercer's judgement as he's a great track record, so let's just let him do his magic, I'm sure itll work out well in the end, it usually does.
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Re: BPF
I don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.
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Re: BPF
Well it looks like he will get two more games to learn and for us to learn
How good is Norris?
How good is Norris?
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Re: BPF
Good to see people starting to prefer their keeper being able to keep the ball out the net rather than going on about his kicking ability.
BPF is decent with his feet but yet to show he can make saves, Pope makes saves, keeps clean sheets yet isn't great with his feet. Looks like preventing goals is the most important after all.
BPF is decent with his feet but yet to show he can make saves, Pope makes saves, keeps clean sheets yet isn't great with his feet. Looks like preventing goals is the most important after all.
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Re: BPF
Good point but it's always nice to be able to add yet another scapegoat to this season's long list even at this late stage...........
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Re: BPF
Or ideally a keeper that can do bothclaretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:32 amGood to see people starting to prefer their keeper being able to keep the ball out the net rather than going on about his kicking ability.
BPF is decent with his feet but yet to show he can make saves, Pope makes saves, keeps clean sheets yet isn't great with his feet. Looks like preventing goals is the most important after all.
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Re: BPF
Yup, we have even managed to get another thread on here started having a go at Hendrick (over 12 months since he kicked a ball for us) I noticed this morning. It does help though highlight those who should be ignored 99% the timeevensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:41 amGood point but it's always nice to be able to add yet another scapegoat to this season's long list even at this late stage...........
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Re: BPF
Which is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?
Good luck with that
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Re: BPF
You can’t say that with certainty though. See popes injury at Aberdeen and Heatons injury against palace (and for Villa against us).Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:31 amIt’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then, as a reserve keeper he’s probably the best we can get, anybody better would want to start & would start even if it meant the championship, I don’t mind him occasionally playing he won’t be on anything like joe hart as well. I look at things from all different angles generally.
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Re: BPF
I hope we don’t sell Pope. I’m not going to judge BPF yet, don’t think he has played enough. If his saving rate can improve he will be a great keeper.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 amWhich is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?
Good luck with that
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Re: BPF
Agree on all that.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 amI don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.
Re: BPF
You're making up nonsense nobody has ever said to whine about?claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 amWhich is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?
Good luck with that
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Re: BPF
I think he’s a good egg & on the basis that it’s unlikely he’ll feature in important games I don’t think it’s a massive issue, Newcastle apart the teams he’s conceded against have an embarrassment of riches upfront even Leeds as a team are very attack minded, he’s 24 (I think) I’d need to Google so plenty of time for him to improve, dyche & mercer must have some confidence in his abilities so that’s good enough for me.cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 9:06 amYou can’t say that with certainty though. See popes injury at Aberdeen and Heatons injury against palace (and for Villa against us).
Re: BPF
He's put in some really good performances at International level. Made some fantastic saves. Maybe he needs time to build some understandings with the players in front of him. We were very lucky that Pope came in and was fantastic from day one, maybe BPF will just need a little more time.
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Re: BPF
Think Joe Hart may be available.
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Re: BPF
I think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
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Re: BPF
True, but we always need a scapegoat to bolster the confidence of the victim. Pretty much everybody had a off day apart from maybe Taylor, vydra was thrown about as a candidate on other threads for missing a chance, why we can’t just say everybody (almost) just played poo I don’t know.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 pmI think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
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Re: BPF
And BPF has done so in three of his four games. With the other game conceding two.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 pmI think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
Pope on the other hand has 11 clean sheets. Behind only Chelsea, Spurs, City and Aston Villa’s keepers. Having missed 4 games.
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Re: BPF
I don’t think you’ll find anybody disagreeing that Nick pope isn’t a better keeper hence being number 1, I’m not sure what the stats are supposed to be proving it’s hardly a surprise that NP comes out number 1, the facts are NP can’t play every game so on odd occasions BPF has to play it’s not a situation everybody’s 100% happy about but there you go.cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:42 amAnd BPF has done so in three of his four games. With the other game conceding two.
Pope on the other hand has 11 clean sheets. Behind only Chelsea, Spurs, City and Aston Villa’s keepers. Having missed 4 games.
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Re: BPF
Probably not making the point well enough. Obviously number one will always likely be better. The point on bpf though is that currently stats show he is way off popes level and there’s nothing to suggest he will get anywhere near that level either.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 5:02 amI don’t think you’ll find anybody disagreeing that Nick pope isn’t a better keeper hence being number 1, I’m not sure what the stats are supposed to be proving it’s hardly a surprise that NP comes out number 1, the facts are NP can’t play every game so on odd occasions BPF has to play it’s not a situation everybody’s 100% happy about but there you go.
As I say. Hope I’m wrong and he comes good.
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Re: BPF
As things currently stand that doesn’t matter as he is not the number 1 keeper, I don’t think anybody really envisaged BPF would ever be a suitable candidate for displacing pope or reaching popes level, BPF was brought in as a understudy & that’s exactly what he is, like I posted earlier the day pope ever leaves if he does it’s likely another keeper will be incoming anyway. You are comparing things which aren’t equal like for like & expecting the same outcome.cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:22 amProbably not making the point well enough. Obviously number one will always likely be better. The point on bpf though is that currently stats show he is way off popes level and there’s nothing to suggest he will get anywhere near that level either.
As I say. Hope I’m wrong and he comes good.
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Re: BPF
Well if BPF is hoping things will improve for him statistics wise tomorrow night, he's probably going to extremely disappointed!
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Re: BPF
It’s hardly a revelation that a number 2 keeper isn’t as good as a number 1 keeper I don’t what some people expect, I’m
Struggling to think of any distinct closeness ability wise between any number 1s & 2s in the PL, quality wise if it was that close there wouldn’t stick around & be a understudy.
Struggling to think of any distinct closeness ability wise between any number 1s & 2s in the PL, quality wise if it was that close there wouldn’t stick around & be a understudy.
Re: BPF
Err, Heaton and Pope? We had both for quite some time didn't we?Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:30 amIt’s hardly a revelation that a number 2 keeper isn’t as good as a number 1 keeper I don’t what some people expect, I’m
Struggling to think of any distinct closeness ability wise between any number 1s & 2s in the PL, quality wise if it was that close there wouldn’t stick around & be a understudy.
Henderson and De Gea?
Last edited by dibraidio on Tue May 18, 2021 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BPF
Isn't it great to see all these goalkeeping experts kicking our young reserve keeper?
Re: BPF
A few interesting things when you look at the stats:
BPF's save percentage is way lower than most keepers and so, unsurprisingly, is his post shot expected goals minus goals conceded (basically a measure comparing how many goals you would expect a keeper to concede against how many they have conceded). What's interesting though is how many more shots on target we face when BPF is playing, an extra 50% compared to Pope. Of course that may be skewed by him playing so few games with half of them being against the top two teams.
BPF's save percentage is way lower than most keepers and so, unsurprisingly, is his post shot expected goals minus goals conceded (basically a measure comparing how many goals you would expect a keeper to concede against how many they have conceded). What's interesting though is how many more shots on target we face when BPF is playing, an extra 50% compared to Pope. Of course that may be skewed by him playing so few games with half of them being against the top two teams.
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Re: BPF
The last 2 you can attribute money being the motivator, granted the first example you’ve got me stumped, I think when we signed Nick from charlton, heatons days were numbered & at the time both were pretty good goalkeepers & I don’t think 6 years between them was a massive gulf, since TH hasn’t really cemented his place in AVFC & NP pretty much picks himself, at this current time I know which 1 I prefer. I’d say within our ranks there’s some fair distance between BPF & NP & almost the same age gap between TH & NP just a year disparity, could be a omen stranger things have happened, Leeds are no duck eggs & actually beat Man City away I think, if BPF was conceding shed loads of goals against West Brom & Sheffield United a stronger argument would exist.
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Re: BPF
I don't like or particularly rate any Leeds player, but on Saturday their whole team was better than ours in every position, except Alioski vs Taylor.arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 amI don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.
And their manager tactically had one over our manager.
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Re: BPF
What a blow for the lad. Can’t say I’m disappointed though.
Suppose it takes him out of the firing line and gives him a chance to start afresh next season, if he’s still here.
Suppose it takes him out of the firing line and gives him a chance to start afresh next season, if he’s still here.
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Re: BPF
Find putting Norris in in front of BPF will be an interesting debate on here.
Must say, I'm a bit baffled.
Must say, I'm a bit baffled.