England - Hungary

[CrosspoolClarets]

I’ve certainly heard it mentioned by people who aren’t simply knuckle draggers but regard themselves as thinkers that whoever won the Euros for England would be a poster boy for a generation and Southgate is just the type of guy to want a diversity candidate for that role rather than the best chance of success.

I suspect that’s what the earlier poster was alluding to with the “woke” comment.

Personally I don’t see enough evidence for that, I tend to prefer incompetence, but it would be fair to say that Saka in particular had no penalty pedigree and was a nervy young kid, so there seemed no sense at all giving him the most crucial kick for over 50 years.

[Lancasterclaret]

I’ve certainly heard it mentioned by people who aren’t simply knuckle draggers but regard themselves as thinkers that whoever won the Euros for England would be a poster boy for a generation and Southgate is just the type of guy to want a diversity candidate for that role rather than the best chance of success.

I suspect that’s what the earlier poster was alluding to with the “woke” comment.

Personally I don’t see enough evidence for that, I tend to prefer incompetence, but it would be fair to say that Saka in particular had no penalty pedigree and was a nervy young kid, so there seemed no sense at all giving him the most crucial kick for over 50 years.

I put it to you that they are simply knuckle draggers

I am amazed at the capability of people to ignore Englands penalty record and try to make into something along the lines of "well, a white bloke wouldn't have missed"

[elwaclaret]

I put it to you that they are simply knuckle draggers

I am amazed at the capability of people to ignore Englands penalty record and try to make into something along the lines of "well, a white bloke wouldn't have missed"

To be fair I don’t think it was a matter of who took the penalty. It was (for the vast majority) the fact that penalty takers were picked regardless of whether they had warmed up and got up to speed mentally during the match rather than an issue with the player themselves. I was one who thought Southgate was asking for trouble, even before the inevitable failure of the tactic. It wasn’t the players fault, it was the coaches.

SD is widely criticised for having no plan B in games. I charge and continue to charge Southgate with not thinking on his feet. England plodded on with the same old tactics when clearly Hungary were tutored to quash that threat. Much is made of our attacking prowess and yet once negated we looked like we could play until Christmas and not score, mainly because we were unable to adapt.

[Lancasterclaret]

To be fair I don’t think it was a matter of who took the penalty. It was (for the vast majority) the fact that penalty takers were picked regardless of whether they had warmed up and got up to speed mentally during the match rather than an issue with the player themselves. I was one who thought Southgate was asking for trouble, even before the inevitable failure of the tactic. It wasn’t the players fault, it was the coaches.

SD is widely criticised for having no plan B in games. I charge and continue to charge Southgate with not thinking on his feet. England plodded on with the same old tactics when clearly Hungary were tutored to quash that threat. Much is made of our attacking prowess and yet once negated we looked like we could play until Christmas and not score, mainly because we were unable to adapt.

Again, the only complaint I have is that Grealish went off

Hungary are no mugs, and got a lead and fought for it, and we had too many players who were not on it, especially Kane (who was as bad as I've seen)

[elwaclaret]

Again, the only complaint I have is that Grealish went off

Hungary are no mugs, and got a lead and fought for it, and we had too many players who were not on it, especially Kane (who was as bad as I've seen)

Quite agree re Grealish, he was one with a potential key. Moving Stirling out wide would be another. However for me the chief ‘word’ would have been reserved for Mount; who for me is far too used to getting soft free kicks for Chelsea around the box. Several times he went down for a foul that didn’t come whereas his running the ball was clearly causing them considerable concern… had he been determined to push on (like a Paul Scholes type) would have opened up the Hungary rearguard and created gaps for others to exploit. Bit like Burnley sometimes stronger minds are as important as skill.

[Lancasterclaret]

Oh, Mount is absolute quality, but he was one who wasn't on it as he would be normally

I think people are still assuming that England should win every game, and as we know, when a team sits deep and makes no mistakes, it can be very hard to break down

And what Hungary had that we still haven't nailed btw is a very successful counter attack

[elwaclaret]

Oh, Mount is absolute quality, but he was one who wasn't on it as he would be normally

I think people are still assuming that England should win every game, and as we know, when a team sits deep and makes no mistakes, it can be very hard to break down

And what Hungary had that we still haven't nailed btw is a very successful counter attack

Which itself is unforgivable given the pace we have in the squad. I maintain we have one of the best squads England have ever had and SHOULD be beating even an on form Hungarian side. Every team has ‘off days’ but you can pre-select them under Southgate, which I think tells you everything. If a decent team does their homework and counters our threat we struggle… we shouldn’t we have traditional strikers and we have pace, runners etc. All options to change the game around… it is for the coach to nail it when it gets tough… Scotland, Italy now Hungary…. No in game answers, poor management.

[aggi]

I’ve certainly heard it mentioned by people who aren’t simply knuckle draggers but regard themselves as thinkers that whoever won the Euros for England would be a poster boy for a generation and Southgate is just the type of guy to want a diversity candidate for that role rather than the best chance of success.

I suspect that’s what the earlier poster was alluding to with the “woke” comment.

Personally I don’t see enough evidence for that, I tend to prefer incompetence, but it would be fair to say that Saka in particular had no penalty pedigree and was a nervy young kid, so there seemed no sense at all giving him the most crucial kick for over 50 years.

I'm taking a wild guess that not many others regard them as thinkers.

[tiger76]

Bad night at the office for England, but we still got a vital point, and qualification should be a formality.

However whatever experiment GS tried last night didn't work, that said it didn't help far too many of our big hitters simply didn't turn up.

I'm not one to overreact, but subbing Grealish was bizarre to me, he was the one guy who was providing an attacking threat, and even purely by winning freekicks he was giving England hope of making the breakthrough.

Worrying that apart from him England looked bereft of unlocking a packed defence, credit to Hungary though, they turned up with a clear plan in place to nullify England, and ultimately they more than earned their point.

There's no divine right to win games at international level, and Hungary showed during the Euro's on their day they can trouble any of the top sides, plenty for Southgate to ponder, but in hindsight it will probably benefit England more by having to graft for results, than it does by racking up easy victories.

[Lancasterclaret]

Which itself is unforgivable given the pace we have in the squad. I maintain we have one of the best squads England have ever had and SHOULD be beating even an on form Hungarian side. Every team has ‘off days’ but you can pre-select them under Southgate, which I think tells you everything. If a decent team does their homework and counters our threat we struggle… we shouldn’t we have traditional strikers and we have pace, runners etc. All options to change the game around… it is for the coach to nail it when it gets tough… Scotland, Italy now Hungary…. No in game answers, poor management.

But that just isn't true

Southgate continually refreshes the squad with new blood (something he's been excellent at)

And my reply is WC semi-final, EC final

The progression is there for all to see, and its Southgate who is moulding one of the best England sides of my lifetime

[elwaclaret]

But that just isn't true

No it isn’t and I’m surprised that you used the term. It is a matter of opinion, mine differs from yours is when we are up against a side who has him weighed up he seems incapable of adapting. Wide men and midfield runners unsettle a stacked defence… we more than most fans see it week in week out.. so why cannot Southgate who watches us so often?

A good manager would have brought home at least one trophy from those positions and with that pool of players, for me. We lost both.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I'm taking a wild guess that not many others regard them as thinkers.

Actually the people I was reminded of talking to are fairly senior business people, but I think they sit more on the anti-woke cultural right of centre (picture a Farage type if you will). Not far right, but sufficiently right to see wokeness everywhere even when it doesn’t exist.

I tend to be somewhere in the middle culturally so I tend to sympathise with both angles. On the Southgate view I concur with elwaclaret that Southgate is simply not a brilliant thinker and picked the wrong penalty takers or didn’t prepare them, but I can see why some get suspicious and accuse him of positive discrimination because he’s spent so much time talking about non-football issues.

[claretonthecoast1882]

This isn't a real thing is it ?

Southgate had Saka, Sancho and Rashford take the penalties in the hope someone who isn't white was the hero ?

I am not a fan of Southgate but this if true that some out there think that is complete ********, he just made a bad call.

[Lancasterclaret]

No it isn’t and I’m surprised that you used the term. It is a matter of opinion, mine differs from yours is when we are up against a side who has him weighed up he seems incapable of adapting. Wide men and midfield runners unsettle a stacked defence… we more than most fans see it week in week out.. so why cannot Southgate who watches us so often?

A good manager would have brought home at least one trophy from those positions and with that pool of players, for me. We lost both.

Past few years have taught me that opinions that are not based on facts are worthless

The facts are England have been crap for decades, now we are not

England haven't done anything since 1996, and now we've had a WC Semi and an EC final

That is progress

[Bordeauxclaret]

This isn't a real thing is it ?

Southgate had Saka, Sancho and Rashford by take the penalties in the hope someone who isn't white was the hero ?

I am not a fan of Southgate but this if true that some out there think that is complete ********, he just made a bad call.

This messageboard may have just peaked.

[Lancasterclaret]

Its 2021, you will be amazed what people really want to believe

[elwaclaret]

Past few years have taught me that opinions that are not based on facts are worthless

The facts are England have been crap for decades, now we are not

England haven't done anything since 1996, and now we've had a WC Semi and an EC final

That is progress

Where did anyone say the England team had not progressed? How much you put that success down to Southgate ‘s ability to manage when a game is slipping and he is asked to make a call on the spot… the instinct rather than method is missing from his management, for me at least is lacking. I would even go so far as to say he could alter that with a different voice on his backroom bench, it is just what I take from the games. I certainly don’t spend any time pouring over the in and outs of the national side. He’s doing what I expect, not what I still hope he can.

[Stayingup]

I genuinely don't have a clue what he means. In what way were Southgate's penalty substitutions woke?

And what's a samba run up?

Are you blind or something? No.imagination or humour I know that lefties dont have. OK Rashford did a Max Wall. Get your hankie out.

[Stayingup]

I put it to you that they are simply knuckle draggers

I am amazed at the capability of people to ignore Englands penalty record and try to make into something along the lines of "well, a white bloke wouldn't have missed"

What is a knuckle dragger? A gorilla? If thats what you.mean you want to.learn what manners are you do.

[Rileybobs]

Are you blind or something? No.imagination or humour I know that lefties dont have. OK Rashford did a Max Wall. Get your hankie out.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist. I asked how Southgates decisions in the penalty shoot out were woke - simple question, just needs a simple answer. I have genuinely no idea, unless it is as someone else suggested since which was that Southgate wanted a black player to be England’s poster boy - which is totally ridiculous, and nothing to do with the definition of woke in any case.

As for the samba run up, I still don’t understand where this term comes from. I’ve certainly never heard it before.

[TheFamilyCat]

I fear that stayingup may not be ok. If anyone knows him, please keep an eye on him.

[fidelcastro]

I fear that stayingup may not be ok. If anyone knows him, please keep an eye on him.

You've only just noticed?

[Jakubclaret]

Past few years have taught me that opinions that are not based on facts are worthless

The facts are England have been crap for decades, now we are not

England haven't done anything since 1996, and now we've had a WC Semi and an EC final

That is progress

But what if certain opinions turns into facts time after time by people who are reliable, do you wait until any said opinion becomes a fact before it’s viewed or considered with any merit, you’ll be waiting a long time & selecting certain opinions, usually it’s sound judgement to look at what people say & what actually happens & when them 2 things correctly marry up time after time you don’t need to wait.

[evensteadiereddie]

[Stayingup]

Stop getting your knickers in a twist. I asked how Southgates decisions in the penalty shoot out were woke - simple question, just needs a simple answer. I have genuinely no idea, unless it is as someone else suggested since which was that Southgate wanted a black player to be England’s poster boy - which is totally ridiculous, and nothing to do with the definition of woke in any case.

As for the samba run up, I still don’t understand where this term comes from. I’ve certainly never heard it before.

I dont wear knickers but I suspect you might under your skirt. Your stupid answer desreves thst reply.