Connor Roberts

[boatshed bill]

No i didn't.

I have however suggested we need something to change and quickly. We need to be able to change dependent on the opposition and their tactics/formation, and we need to be able to change during the game if things clearly aren't working or going our way.

But at no point have i said we will be relegated because of our reliance on 4-4-2.

No, it was me.
But actually I didn't say it as such.
I expressed my concern that our rigid 4-4-2 would see us relegated, which is slightly different.

[ClaretTony]

No i didn't.

I have however suggested we need something to change and quickly. We need to be able to change dependent on the opposition and their tactics/formation, and we need to be able to change during the game if things clearly aren't working or going our way.

But at no point have i said we will be relegated because of our reliance on 4-4-2.

You said that our rigid 4-4-2 would see us relegated. Your words, not mine.

[bobinho]

You said that our rigid 4-4-2 would see us relegated. Your words, not mine.

No i didnt. Not my words, someone elses. Come on CT, keep up... it was Boatshed Bill on the first page.

[boatshed bill]

No i didnt. Not my words, someone elses. Come on CT, keep up... it was Boatshed Bill on the first page.

And I've just "confessed", thopugh my comment is subject to interpretation.
Expressing concern that something may happen is different to predicting it.

[ClaretTony]

No i didnt. Not my words, someone elses. Come on CT, keep up... it was Boatshed Bill on the first page.

Oops sorry, it was boatshead bill.

[boatshed bill]

Oops sorry, it was boatshead bill.

And, CT, can I clarify?
I am concerned that our rigid formation MAY be our undoing, this is based on my belief that we have been totally worked out now while using this formation.
As you know, I was a big fan of 4-4-1-1, didn't it get us our best season?
It remains to be seen, but I think we all have to accept that, on the basis of 25(ish) games, our return using 4-4-2 is not good enough.

[ClaretTony]

And, CT, can I clarify?
I am concerned that our rigid formation MAY be our undoing, this is based on my belief that we have been totally worked out now while using this formation.
As you know, I was a big fan of 4-4-1-1, didn't it get us our best season?
It remains to be seen, but I think we all have to accept that, on the basis of 25(ish) games, our return using 4-4-2 is not good enough.

And when we played with one striker, Hendrick was often slated on here when I thought he played well.

But I don’t agree with you at all and it’s a return on 38 games that counts. And we don’t have the squad to play the wing back formation you seem to want.

[boatshed bill]

And when we played with one striker, Hendrick was often slated on here when I thought he played well.

But I don’t agree with you at all and it’s a return on 38 games that counts. And we don’t have the squad to play the wing back formation you seem to want.

I don't know why Hendrick got hammered on here, it made no sense.
As for the formation change, I do think we would benefit (sometimes) by matching the oppositions' formations, time will tell.
As for the 3-5-2. I think buying Cornet and Roberts increases our potential to try that, much as I doubt we'll see it.

[nil_desperandum]

And we don’t have the squad to play the wing back formation you seem to want.

I've contributed a bit to this thread, and I think you've misunderstood what a few of us are saying.
Not suggesting that we drop all other formations to go with a wing back formation, but I do feel we now have a squad that enables us to switch to it during games from time to time when the 4-4-2 is clearly not working, (and I think that that is all that other posters are suggesting).
Out of interest, why do you think (with a fully fit squad) that we don't have 11 players who could play an effective wing back formation?

[boatshed bill]

2 strikers in every game so far: 7 games , 14 x 90 minimum minutes on the pitch and we have 5 goals one of which was scored by a striker

[fidelcastro]

2 strikers in every game so far: 7 games , 14 x 90 minimum minutes on the pitch and we have 5 goals one of which was scored by a striker

Jamie Vardy scored for us, so that's two strikers!

[warksclaret]

Surely Dyche and the team will need some time on the training ground with him to figure out how he best fits? Given that he's just back from injury and launched straight into internationals they have not yet had the benefit of that time.

He has been in or around the squad since 1 September.He didn't go to Burnley on crutches.Robert Page took the bull by the horns, bringing him on as sub in the first of the two recent qualifying games and started him the second game.He has not played a minute in our first team, and yet he showed faith in him and his fitness. He made a major contribution in both games, showing great levels of energy. As a result Wales got a draw and a win.We are not going to stay in the PL by playing Lennon or JBG on the right wing.Neither no longer pose a threat. Roberts is a special player, and without a win in around 10 PL games he simply has to play very soon. It would have been easy leaving Cornet out of the starting 11 at Leicester. SD started him and he was pivotal to our well earned point that day. We whinge about our inability to sign players. then seem happy for them to stand on the side lines to understand and learn the "Burnley philosophy"

[Rileybobs]

He has been in or around the squad since 1 September.He didn't go to Burnley on crutches.Robert Page took the bull by the horns, bringing him on as sub in the first of the two recent qualifying games and started him the second game.He has not played a minute in our first team, and yet he showed faith in him and his fitness. He made a major contribution in both games, showing great levels of energy. As a result Wales got a draw and a win.We are not going to stay in the PL by playing Lennon or JBG on the right wing.Neither no longer pose a threat. Roberts is a special player, and without a win in around 10 PL games he simply has to play very soon. It would have been easy leaving Cornet out of the starting 11 at Leicester. SD started him and he was pivotal to our well earned point that day. We whinge about our inability to sign players. then seem happy for them to stand on the side lines to understand and learn the "Burnley philosophy"

Roberts is a full back. What has he got to do with JBG and Lennon?

[fidelcastro]

Roberts is a full back. What has he got to do with JBG and Lennon?

Because the experts on here have already found a new position for him, just like they did for Cornet.

[dsr]

And, CT, can I clarify?
I am concerned that our rigid formation MAY be our undoing, this is based on my belief that we have been totally worked out now while using this formation.
As you know, I was a big fan of 4-4-1-1, didn't it get us our best season?
It remains to be seen, but I think we all have to accept that, on the basis of 25(ish) games, our return using 4-4-2 is not good enough.

We haven't been "worked out". If we aren't playing the way we want to, it isn't because after 7 years' work other PL teams have had a sudden epiphany; it's because we aren't playing it as well as we used to. It's not the formation that may prove our undoing, it's the players we have got not playing well enough.

[dsr]

I suppose the point about Roberts on the right wing, is that Lennon offers nothing going forward (IMO) but does his share of defending pretty well. So instead we could pick Roberts who wouldn't offer less than Lennon going forward but could presumably do the defending rather better. It's possible that Lowton and Roberts could form a double-team right side combination, taking turns to go forward to keep the defence guessing.

Having Roberts' long throws in the side wouldn't hurt, either.

[summitclaret]

I suppose the point about Roberts on the right wing, is that Lennon offers nothing going forward (IMO) but does his share of defending pretty well. So instead we could pick Roberts who wouldn't offer less than Lennon going forward but could presumably do the defending rather better. It's possible that Lowton and Roberts could form a double-team right side combination, taking turns to go forward to keep the defence guessing.

Having Roberts' long throws in the side wouldn't hurt, either.

Horses for courses. So Roberts rsm at City and one striker with Dwight behind makes sense.

[Rileybobs]

I suppose the point about Roberts on the right wing, is that Lennon offers nothing going forward (IMO) but does his share of defending pretty well. So instead we could pick Roberts who wouldn't offer less than Lennon going forward but could presumably do the defending rather better. It's possible that Lowton and Roberts could form a double-team right side combination, taking turns to go forward to keep the defence guessing.

Having Roberts' long throws in the side wouldn't hurt, either.

And what about Cornet and McNeill? How are we going to shoehorn all of these players into a starting eleven?

[NewClaret]

And what about Cornet and McNeill? How are we going to shoehorn all of these players into a starting eleven?

Nice problem to have after years our bench mainly being supplemented by U23’s.

[superdimitri]

For a while we were improving and were able to play in a reasonable system with 1 striker. We then lost key players and didn't replace them. Had a real slump last season and had to go back to basics.
When you aren't playing well it's all about the basics and very little to do with the system. If the manager starts messing about now with different stuff we'll likely slump more.

We finally have some squad depth, but it's still not really setup right to play one or three up top.

There are certain players who hold us back from being able to play better football. Defour said it himself when he was here. We carry too many players with poor vision and technique... Limited footballers it you like.

To use Wood as an example. He's in the team to score goals. He offers very little else and outside of the box he's slow to react and get on the same page as others. He's most comfortable with balls into the channel which forces us to hit it long often and he's not even very good at staying onside or holding to the ball and playing others in. Barnes is even worse, his entire game is a battle with the referee to try and win free kicks. He's a bit faster to think than Wood, but he too is very limited in his play.

You can afford to have one or two.. But to have so many makes you devoid of any creativity, flair or even eccentricity. The same moves are repeated like a broken record and the opposition knows exactly what to expect.

All the time we keep playing with limited footballers we are just preventing any improvement. That's why I think going with Rodriguez and Vydra might be worth a shout if we're ever in a position to not stick to basics.

Until then it will be the same rigid system that brings temporary relief until the wheels are screwed back on. Luckily Vydra seems to be ahead of Barnes in the current pecking order so at least the opposition have to think about something different to defend against.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The crucial point here is that Lowton offers nothing going forwards and given our goals record it is vital to upgrade. I just hope Roberts handles the step up, which it is, even versus most Wales games,

[Local cricketer]

Can’t wait to go 433 at city with Nick Pope playing the quarter back role spraying the ball to Roberts and Pieters on the wings

[warksclaret]

Nice problem to have after years our bench mainly being supplemented by U23’s.

Thats why SD gets paid handsomely-his decision. We simply need to involve Cornet and Roberts as well as McNeil. It may involve having one on the bench from time to time, depending on form. But would you prefer this or Rodriguez and Barnes coming on for 15-20 minutes in hope they can get on the end of a long hopeful ball

[warksclaret]

The general consensus that our performances shows an improvement on the way we have been playing this season, yet we only have 3 points from 21, shows to me how the PL has moved on. It means we now need to be playing our best players. The back four and Pope dont need tinkeing with, and will get stronger as a unit when we develop more of a goal threat. When I watched our performance v Leicester with Cornet starting, I thought to myself at half time that we were beginning to look like a very strong team playing with purpose. Vydra, Cornet, Roberts, McNeil all need to be involved

[NewClaret]

Thats why SD gets paid handsomely-his decision. We simply need to involve Cornet and Roberts as well as McNeil. It may involve having one on the bench from time to time, depending on form. But would you prefer this or Rodriguez and Barnes coming on for 15-20 minutes in hope they can get on the end of a long hopeful ball

Exactly. At least we should now have a creative option from the bench.

Lowton is in brilliant form at the moment, and there’s no way I’d drop him, but there’s a very feasible way of playing Roberts at RB, Cornet RW, Dwight LW to accommodate them all.

Against City I’d perhaps go him RW (for his defensive qualities), Dwight left, leave Cornet as an impact sub.

[Spijed]

shows to me how the PL has moved on.

With all due respect, haven't you said exactly the same thing for the last few seasons?

[claretonthecoast1882]

This the PL has moved on makes no sense.

Moved on from what ? the last season that ended a few months back ?

Have Leeds and Leicester been left behind as well, or is it just a silly statement used when a team has a slow start

[RVclaret]

Roberts is a full back. What has he got to do with JBG and Lennon?

To be fair I'm usually one to be perplexed by some of the re-positioning done by posters on here of our players - I think I saw Cornet in every position but centre half and keeper before he'd even kicked a ball with us.

But with Roberts at RM, it's not too far-fetched. Yes he is a full back BUT most of his best football (according to reports/when I've seen him) have been at right wing back in a 5. Also last season for Swansea he actually played RM on quite a few occasions (led to him being the second highest chance creator in the league). We know SD likes good defensive ability from our wide men regardless so having him as an option out there isn't a bad idea, especially if he offers more going forward than JBG / Lennon (not that hard right now).

As for getting him, Cornet and McNeil in the team - wouldn't be possible in a 4-4-2 unless he replaced Lowton at RB which I don't envision yet. Possibly RM with McNeil as a 10 and Cornet wide left?

[warksclaret]

This the PL has moved on makes no sense.

Moved on from what ? the last season that ended a few months back ?

Have Leeds and Leicester been left behind as well, or is it just a silly statement used when a team has a slow start

OK-I am fascinated in hearing why you think we have gained 3 points out of the last 30.Does that not worry you ??You can always find teams who have gone backwards based on previous seasons. It would otherwise become very easy to predict results. Watching us play v Norwich I came away thinking which teams right now COULD we beat in the PL and I was struggling.

[warksclaret]

To be fair I'm usually one to be perplexed by some of the re-positioning done by posters on here of our players - I think I saw Cornet in every position but centre half and keeper before he'd even kicked a ball with us.

But with Roberts at RM, it's not too far-fetched. Yes he is a full back BUT most of his best football (according to reports/when I've seen him) have been at right wing back in a 5. Also last season for Swansea he actually played RM on quite a few occasions (led to him being the second highest chance creator in the league). We know SD likes good defensive ability from our wide men regardless so having him as an option out there isn't a bad idea, especially if he offers more going forward than JBG / Lennon (not that hard right now).

As for getting him, Cornet and McNeil in the team - wouldn't be possible in a 4-4-2 unless he replaced Lowton at RB which I don't envision yet. Possibly RM with McNeil as a 10 and Cornet wide left?

#
Its very likely that one of Roberts, Cornet or McNeil could be a sub, but the PL is very much a "squad" game these days, with numerous examples of game changing substitutions. But would you rather one of these coming on to help change a game, or JBG, Lennon, JR and Barnes. In time I think Roberts will become our regular RB then all would start. When you have taken 3 points from 30 then you simply need to try things like Roberts at right of a 4 man midfield. JBG and Lennon to use an SD phrase are quite simply the "padding" of a squad

[warksclaret]

With all due respect, haven't you said exactly the same thing for the last few seasons?

Well observed-I have been saying it longer than that. Sides we used to brush aside will be a different challenge this season-Everton, Wolves, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle. Can you answer me where we will get the 40 or so points to survive. Did you watch the Norwich game?? Or why we have mustered 3 points out of 30. If you are saying the PL has not moved on it makes that performance even more dire. You have just shot yourself in the foot my friend

[dsr]

Well observed-I have been saying it longer than that. Sides we used to brush aside will be a different challenge this season-Everton, Wolves, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle. Can you answer me where we will get the 40 or so points to survive. Did you watch the Norwich game?? Or why we have mustered 3 points out of 30. If you are saying the PL has not moved on it makes that performance even more dire. You have just shot yourself in the foot my friend

It's not new that we struggle against packed defences. That's why our record of coming from behind has been poor all the time in the PL.

The reason we haven't got more points is because we aren't playing well.

Have you any statistics to prove we used to "brush aside" teams like Everton, Wolves, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle? I can remember poor results and performances against all of them.

[Mala591]

We’ve been weak on the right side of midfield for the last 2 years (since JBG lost his form/fitness/confidence). McNeil looks ‘less comfortable’ on the right but is possibly our best option at the moment.
Cornet looks so energetic, creative and dangerous on the left of midfield that we should start him there.
Dyche seems very reluctant to ‘develop’ our players to play in different positions which i don’t really understand but it’s the PL and even the slightest drop in a player’s ‘effectiveness’ can have serious consequences (have I just answered my own question ).
It isn’t the time to try Roberts on the right of midfield just yet (in a 4-4-2) but right midfield is possibly our weakest link in the team and imo Dyche should be working on Roberts playing there in training.

[Rileybobs]

#
Its very likely that one of Roberts, Cornet or McNeil could be a sub, but the PL is very much a "squad" game these days, with numerous examples of game changing substitutions. But would you rather one of these coming on to help change a game, or JBG, Lennon, JR and Barnes. In time I think Roberts will become our regular RB then all would start. When you have taken 3 points from 30 then you simply need to try things like Roberts at right of a 4 man midfield. JBG and Lennon to use an SD phrase are quite simply the "padding" of a squad

Ok. So to go back to my previous question, if we need to try Roberts on the right of a 4 man midfield - how do we also fit Vydra, McNeil and Cornet into the side?

[warksclaret]

Ok. So to go back to my previous question, if we need to try Roberts on the right of a 4 man midfield - how do we also fit Vydra, McNeil and Cornet into the side?

So go back to my previous answer, one would need to be a sub. For Man City Cornet & McNeil to start with Roberts bought on to replace one of these (unless both were playing blinders) and we were winning or drawing. With a better squad SD to bring subs on sooner than of late. As I also said its a squad game these days. Surely that has to be better than delaying Roberts inclusion, which but for his Welsh games might well have been what SD was thinking. These 3 have to be simply ahead of JBG or Lennon who seem to be getting opportunities

[Dark Cloud]

It won't be a formation of any kind which will see us relegated. It will be an overall lack of quality (in relation to the rest of the PL) and whether the (excellent) additions of Roberts and Cornet can actually influence enough games or if it turns out to be too little too late. Plus how many games either or both are fit for. It will also depend on how many times we get Kevin Friend as a referee.

[Lancasterclaret]

Those saying that the back four doesn't need change are ignoring that we are the premier league leaders in letting leads slip

Clearly most of our team are operating at below their best, and its reflected in our league position and our poor stats

I'm not saying that we need to have a rethink, but its entirely possible that we have gone a little stale, and when we are not at our best, we are worryingly easy to beat

[warksclaret]

It's not new that we struggle against packed defences. That's why our record of coming from behind has been poor all the time in the PL.

The reason we haven't got more points is because we aren't playing well.

Have you any statistics to prove we used to "brush aside" teams like Everton, Wolves, Palace, West Ham, Newcastle? I can remember poor results and performances against all of them.

I did not just throw those names out. Points scored against these clubs BEFORE this season

West Ham 12 points in 6 games
Wolves 11 points in 5 games
Palace 9 points in 4 games
Everton 7 points in 5 games

With Newcastle they did the double last year over us, but in general terms we always would generally take 3 points each season off them prior to this

[Spijed]

I did not just throw those names out. Points scored against these clubs BEFORE this season

West Ham 12 points in 6 games
Wolves 11 points in 5 games
Palace 9 points in 4 games
Everton 7 points in 5 games

With Newcastle they did the double last year over us, but in general terms we always would generally take 3 points each season off them prior to this

Surely you need to use like for like stats

[warksclaret]

Surely you need to use like for like stats

Possibly, but they make a point,and would you not want some of these points. Still not answered my question of why you think only 3 points have been earned from 30. And another question Spijed-where do you see our first PL win coming

[Spijed]

Possibly, but they make a point,and would you not want some of these points. Still not answered my question of why you think only 3 points have been earned from 30. And another question Spijed-where do you see our first PL win coming

For a start, why are you including the three games at the end of last season when we have ALWAYS had a poor end to each one under SD. When I checked I think it was 1 win and 2 draws combined for the last three games in six seasons under SD. (Stand to be corrected).

Hard to tell when our first win will come. Could easily be against Southampton as it could Brentford.

Last season we'd got six points after ten matches.

[warksclaret]

For a start, why are you including the three games at the end of last season when we have ALWAYS had a poor end to each one under SD. When I checked I think it was 1 win and 2 draws combined for the last three games in six seasons under SD. (Stand to be corrected).

Hard to tell when our first win will come. Could easily be against Southampton as it could Brentford.

Last season we'd got six points after ten matches.

Its called a "trend" Spijed. To me a trend is more indicative than past performance. May be something to do with me being in sales all my life. Had I gone into a meeting saying sales are down, but its OK we were poor last year I would have been shown the door. For me 10 games yielding 3 points is a very worrying "trend" regardless of whether some were last season. No one more surprised than me to see Sheffield Utd struggling 12 months ago after a blinding season the year before. However the longer they went without a win the more convinced I was they were doomed. In the past if we went 5 or 6 games without a win, I always felt we would generate a new run of 6 or 7 games yielding maybe 10-14 points which gave us a huge lift and moved us the table. My confidence gets dented each game we play and lose the lead, and we have only played one really top team this season in Liverpool

[NRC]

I can confirm that Bobinho didn't say we would be relegated; I read his words. I will say, though, that there is a high probability that it will be the case. 4 in 28 is an alarming number

Basing outcomes on “it’ll click together, it always does” is a risky business. The irony of the situation is that we don’t have the time to mess about with formations. If it doesn’t work then we’re in an even deeper hole. So 442 it is, and it will click together

[AfloatinClaret]

I don't know why Hendrick got hammered on here, it made no sense...

The usual suspects elected him as our Official Scapegoat once Joe Hart got dropped from the side and they aren't heavily into sense - good, common or otherwise - and since he went to Newcastle - how very dare he! - they've moved on to Josh Brownhill and/or Charlie Taylor.