Russia Invades

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I've just read a tweet that claims India is trying to set up a different payment system using Rupees for Russia to use.

https://twitter.com/GoldTelegraph_/stat ... BDlAw&s=19

[Penwortham_Claret]

Ukraine continue to impress

https://twitter.com/ecampbell360/status ... 82277?s=21

[Lancasterclaret]

Ukraine playing an absolute blinder in the propaganda war

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/ ... 0686058496

[ClaretInLeeds]

You mean apart from that video being from 2014 Lancaster?

[Lancasterclaret]

You mean apart from that video being from 2014 Lancaster?

Yeah apart from that!

Good spot!

Thing is, they have been at war with Russian backed separatists since then, and its something to bear in mind

[ClaretInLeeds]

It’s a great video and resonates, but it’s not current and the journalist that posted it has been called out for posting propaganda.

[Lancasterclaret]

Bomb damage in Sumy (somewhere near Khark'iv)

https://twitter.com/alona_she/status/14 ... 5981071360

[Lancasterclaret]

Aftermatch of fighting in Irpin (nr Kyi'v)

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1497867809631703041

[NewClaret]

Does anyone know how many of the rumoured 160k troops amassed on the borders have been deployed?

All seems a bit small scale at the moment, so they just have masses waiting to invade after weakening the Ukrainian army? Or are all their troops deployed?

[tiger76]

I saw that among other things, sounds very much like they don't want to be there at all

I've seen unconfirmed reports of Russian soldiers wondering why they are even there at all, and an army without an obvious objective is hardly likely to be motivated is it, whereas the Ukrainians have something to actively fight for, i.e. their freedom and independence.

Forgive me if it seems fanciful, but could we see a military coup within Russia itself, it wouldn't be the first time an army has usurped a government, although in Europe it probably hasn't happened for a good while.

[Lancasterclaret]

Good thread on the sanctions on the Russian central bank

In all honesty, this is the weapon that will hurt the Russians the most

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 1576932354

[ClaretInLeeds]

For balance, and I know nobody other than Putin wants Russia to win, the link to an active twitter account that’s giving live Russian updates.

https://twitter.com/asbmilitary?s=21

As I said - purely for balance.

[ClaretInLeeds]

Good thread on the sanctions on the Russian central bank

In all honesty, this is the weapon that will hurt the Russians the most

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 1576932354

What about the rumours that India are looking at alternative ways to support the Russians financially and what this would mean for the US Dollar?

[Lancasterclaret]

For balance, and I know nobody other than Putin wants Russia to win, the link to an active twitter account that’s giving live Russian updates.

https://twitter.com/asbmilitary?s=21

As I said - purely for balance.

I'm not sure repeating ad verbatim the info released for domestic consumption in Russia counts as balance, but its a good link though

[Lancasterclaret]

What about the rumours that India are looking at alternative ways to support the Russians financially and what this would mean for the US Dollar?

What about them?

I think someone was on earlier in the thread about how this could all be bypassed by crypto currency, and this sounds just as fanciful

[ClaretInLeeds]

I don’t want to come across as pro-Russian, because I’m not. Was a link I found on twitter that seems to give an accurate account of what the Russians are doing. For obvious reasons there are very few reputable accounts from the Russian point of view - I just find it fascinating.

[ClaretInLeeds]

What about them?

I think someone was on earlier in the thread about how this could all be bypassed by crypto currency, and this sounds just as fanciful

I’m not sure how much of a sway the Indians have, I’m also not sure how quickly a notoriously slow and reactive nation could design and implement such a system.

[Hibsclaret]

It just gets more and more rancid every morning. Today we have more pleas from Ukraine for assistance including, specifically, requests for foreign people to sign up to the war effort. Our foreign office have said they endorse this so thinking it through an average Joe bloggs from the UK with no training or experience can actually go to Ukraine to help whilst our fully trained military are unable to get involved directly. Absolute disgrace is the lack of direct action from the west whilst ordinary people are being murdered every night.

[NewClaret]

It just gets more and more rancid every morning. Today we have more pleas from Ukraine for assistance including, specifically, requests for foreign people to sign up to the war effort. Our foreign office have said they endorse this so thinking it through an average Joe bloggs from the UK with no training or experience can actually go to Ukraine to help whilst our fully trained military are unable to get involved directly. Absolute disgrace is the lack of direct action from the west whilst ordinary people are being murdered every night.

Completely agree.

[ClaretInLeeds]

As rancid as the situation is, there will be large numbers of the UK Armed Forces primed and ready to support the Ukrainian forces at a moments notice. They will just be waiting for the nod.

[Hibsclaret]

As rancid as the situation is, there will be large numbers of the UK Armed Forces primed and ready to support the Ukrainian forces at a moments notice. They will just be waiting for the nod.

I’m sure there is but an ordinary Joe has already had the nod that’s why it’s ridiculous

[ClaretLoup]

As rancid as the situation is, there will be large numbers of the UK Armed Forces primed and ready to support the Ukrainian forces at a moments notice. They will just be waiting for the nod.

Indeed for all we know UK and other Allies may already be covertly offering assistance anyway. If they were they would hardly be telling the enemy on the BBC what they are doing.

[ClaretInLeeds]

There’s no doubt that allies are actively helping Ukraine.

The issue is that we cannot put trained boots on the ground (or in the air) to help them.

As much as I would love us to just sweep in and back Ukraine up - the rules of war prevent that from happening, unfortunately as it’s not our war unless we are attacked/attack. If we become the aggressor - WWIII becomes and inevitably.

[alwaysaclaret]

Indeed for all we know UK and other Allies may already be covertly offering assistance anyway. If they were they would hardly be telling the enemy on the BBC what they are doing.

I'm sure I read a few weeks ago that there was 130 or so special forces in Ukraine

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’m sure there is but an ordinary Joe has already had the nod that’s why it’s ridiculous

It's quite normal, look how many ordinary Joe's went off to fight Isis and against Syria.

[Colburn_Claret]

What about the rumours that India are looking at alternative ways to support the Russians financially and what this would mean for the US Dollar?

I've no idea whether these rumours are true or not, but it would seem a very strange alliance.

The truth is that a line in the sand has to be drawn, and ANY country that seeks to trade with Russia, or open banking lines with it, should face the same sanctions as Russia itself.

I'd add that sanctions are a double edged blade, there is no way that they don't come back and hurt us in some way. We should all be prepared to tighten our belts, or relax some of our confining rules in order to make sure that these sanctions hurt Russia most. I wouldn't be worried about Russia cutting off the gas line, I'd turn it off myself. Open coal power stations, nuclear power stations ( I know that isn't as simple as flicking a switch), share whatever energy supplies we have with our neighbours, in order that we can keep society and business moving. Let Russia know that one of it's best bargaining cards isn't even on the table.

[Top Claret]

It's quite normal, look how many ordinary Joe's went off to fight Isis and against Syria.

Plenty joined up with the Kurds to fight isis and faced prosecution on their return to the UK, whats so different about the war in Ukraine?

[dermotdermot]

It's quite normal, look how many ordinary Joe's went off to fight Isis and against Syria.

The didn’t go off snd fight Isis. They joined Isis.

[dermotdermot]

It just gets more and more rancid every morning. Today we have more pleas from Ukraine for assistance including, specifically, requests for foreign people to sign up to the war effort. Our foreign office have said they endorse this so thinking it through an average Joe bloggs from the UK with no training or experience can actually go to Ukraine to help whilst our fully trained military are unable to get involved directly. Absolute disgrace is the lack of direct action from the west whilst ordinary people are being murdered every night.

There is a small matter to reflect on. Putin has stated that, if the West interferes, he will unleash atomic weapons and devastate the
world.

[Colburn_Claret]

It just gets more and more rancid every morning. Today we have more pleas from Ukraine for assistance including, specifically, requests for foreign people to sign up to the war effort. Our foreign office have said they endorse this so thinking it through an average Joe bloggs from the UK with no training or experience can actually go to Ukraine to help whilst our fully trained military are unable to get involved directly. Absolute disgrace is the lack of direct action from the west whilst ordinary people are being murdered every night.

It is sad, but those are the rules. If we don't apply the rules and follow them, then all you achieve is anarchy.

Putin would love us to dive in, it would only enhance his position that he invaded to protect Russia from NATO. The longer we stay out, the weaker that argument gets, and hopefully the Russian people will start to realise that they've been led down a dark alley by lies.

It is shite that the Ukraine has to pay the price for our failings, I just hope they realise that in spirit we support them totally, and that their sacrifice won't be forgotten.

[Hibsclaret]

I’m not sure what’s normal about letting an ordinary citizen do something a fully trained citizen is not authorised to do.

Whether it starts ww3 or not Putin’s actions are exactly the type of actions that started ww2 and if that had been nipped in the bud earlier there may have been less of the tens of millions of casualties.

[elwaclaret]

I can imagine moves will be afoot to send volunteers in covertly from around Europe, in a similar style that Hyde park was a rallying point for recruits for the Spanish Civil War. We officially had no involvement against Franco but it did not prevent ‘Black flag’ units being transported to the front.

[Hibsclaret]

It is sad, but those are the rules. If we don't apply the rules and follow them, then all you achieve is anarchy.

Putin would love us to dive in, it would only enhance his position that he invaded to protect Russia from NATO. The longer we stay out, the weaker that argument gets, and hopefully the Russian people will start to realise that they've been led down a dark alley by lies.

It is shite that the Ukraine has to pay the price for our failings, I just hope they realise that in spirit we support them totally, and that their sacrifice won't be forgotten.

Understand what you’re saying but there are no rules that allow us to actively encourage ordinary people to do what trained military can’t. As much as we live in a free society the Foreign office should not be endorsing requests from Ukraine for assistance from normal people when they can’t let trained ones do the same thing. You either can’t help or you can.

Innocent people paying the price of their lives by scrambling to deal with something they are not equipped to deal with has been going on throughout history against tyrants.

[willsclarets]

I've no idea whether these rumours are true or not, but it would seem a very strange alliance.

The truth is that a line in the sand has to be drawn, and ANY country that seeks to trade with Russia, or open banking lines with it, should face the same sanctions as Russia itself.

I'd add that sanctions are a double edged blade, there is no way that they don't come back and hurt us in some way. We should all be prepared to tighten our belts, or relax some of our confining rules in order to make sure that these sanctions hurt Russia most. I wouldn't be worried about Russia cutting off the gas line, I'd turn it off myself. Open coal power stations, nuclear power stations ( I know that isn't as simple as flicking a switch), share whatever energy supplies we have with our neighbours, in order that we can keep society and business moving. Let Russia know that one of it's best bargaining cards isn't even on the table.

Agree with this. The truth is counter sanctions by Russia hurt EU countries unequally. Germany for instance is much more reliant on Russia for energy imports than other EU countries. Unity is key, Putin is masterful at dividing his opponents and for sanctions to have an impact European nations must share the burden and resources with those more vulnerable. Russian intelligence has sought for years, whether it was support for Trump or meddling with brexit, to create division in Western powers. Not least for situations like this, when he literally wants to get away with murder. We must be unified and undeterred in making this war financially ruining for him, without escalating a catastrophic war. China is also pivotal in this for me, and the west interfering with direct military support rather than sanctions and diplomacy will only serve to get them offside. We need them onside.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’m not sure what’s normal about letting an ordinary citizen do something a fully trained citizen is not authorised to do.

Whether it starts ww3 or not Putin’s actions are exactly the type of actions that started ww2 and if that had been nipped in the bud earlier there may have been less of the tens of millions of casualties.

They're trying to nip it in the bud now with the financial sanctions and by supplying Ukraine to keep them in the fight.
Very different actions compared to what was available for WW2.

Sending in NATO forces is the last resort because once that happens it gets extremely messy.

Civilians choosing to go and fight Russia is easier to permit because they're an actual country invading another.
Isis wasn't, they're just a bunch of religious nutjobs.
Ukraine wants people to help in their fight, the middle Eastern countries didn't make the same requests.

[Hibsclaret]

It’s already extremely messy

[willsclarets]

It is, but on the "messy scale", getting it wrong at this point could make the current situation look reasonably tidy.

[Gibbo]

We shall see the economic sanctions start to have an affect tomorrow hopefully, with a run on the Russian Banks. This should manifest itself with queues of Russians trying to get their money out. The rest will take time.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s already extremely messy

Not yet it isn't.

[Damo]

Screenshot_20220227-095028_Twitter.jpg (1004.7 KiB) Viewed 2571 times

[Hibsclaret]

Not yet it isn't.

There’s hundreds of civilians dead over the last 4 days. I think we may have a different view of what’s messy. You say it’s very different to ww2, yes the world is different but the inaction of the US for the first 28 months of that war caused more casualties than there would have been if they were involved in 1939. The longer we faff around without dealing with Putin directly the more messy it gets. You can’t sit by as civilians without training try to do what trained armies can do.

[Gibbo]

A link to explain the economic sanctions and it's affect

https://theconversation.com/just-short- ... omy-178000

[GodIsADeeJay81]

There’s hundreds of civilians dead over the last 4 days. I think we may have a different view of what’s messy. You say it’s very different to ww2, yes the world is different but the inaction of the US for the first 28 months of that war caused more casualties than there would have been if they were involved in 1939. The longer we faff around without dealing with Putin directly the more messy it gets. You can’t sit by as civilians without training try to do what trained armies can do.

The USA and other NATO countries have already started taking action, they aren't just sitting around watching.
This has to be done in the right way to prevent another World War.

They are dealing with Putin directly, they've placed sanctions on him personally, they're kicking Russian banks out of things like Swift etc.

Putin probably hasn't planned for it to go this way, especially after the way the West sat and watched him take Crimea.

Russia still has allies, one of whom has the largest standing army in the world, but they won't want to get involved either if they can help it which is why the West needs to handle this in a certain way.

[Hipper]

Understand what you’re saying but there are no rules that allow us to actively encourage ordinary people to do what trained military can’t. As much as we live in a free society the Foreign office should not be endorsing requests from Ukraine for assistance from normal people when they can’t let trained ones do the same thing. You either can’t help or you can.

Innocent people paying the price of their lives by scrambling to deal with something they are not equipped to deal with has been going on throughout history against tyrants.

I agree.

I would think the sort of people they are looking for are ex military personnel. If they are captured by Russians though will they be looked at as some sort of mercenary and therefore the rules of PoWs would not apply? It may also be seen by Russia as an escalation and so a threat to this country.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://twitter.com/RyanBaker51/status/ ... zz8qA&s=19

Interesting thread about logistics and how fast an army can actually move during combat

[ClaretCliff]

Report from Telegraph-

The governor of Kharkiv region has said that Ukraine has full control of the city and that large numbers of Russian prisoners have surrendered after this morning's apparently botched assault.

"Control over Kharkiv is completely ours! The armed forces, the national police, and the defence forces are working and the city is being completely cleansed of the enemy," Oleg Synegybov said in a statement on Telegram.

"The Russian enemy is completely demoralised. In the middle of Kharkiv, abandoning vehicles in the middle of the road, whole groups of 5-10 people surrender to Ukrainian troops. As soon as they see at least one representative of the Ukrainian armed forces, they surrender."

He also said Ukraine still held the town of Chuguiv, on the highway 25 miles southeast of the city.

The Telegraph could not immediately verify the claim about Chuguiv or the claims about prisoners, but did see a destroyed column of four Russian armoured vehicles controlled by Ukrainian forces around two and half miles from the city centre.

[TsarBomba]

If not already, this chap is definitely worth a follow:

https://twitter.com/ralee85?s=11

[Hibsclaret]

All the rhetoric about sanctions is all well and good but that in itself is declaring war against Russia. It’s doing a watered down version of it and causing financial hardship to millions of innocent Russian civilians whilst a dictator continues to do his worst killing innocent civilians. Sending weapons to be used by people untrained in the use of them is half ar5ed and pathetic. Half a job. Perfect for a lunatic dictator.

[Dixie Normous]

Take this post down . It’s disgusting that people are posting pictures of the dead . As an ex soldier I can tell you that’s an absolute shameful thing to do . Have some respect

[ClaretInLeeds]

All the rhetoric about sanctions is all well and good but that in itself is declaring war against Russia. It’s doing a watered down version of it and causing financial hardship to millions of innocent Russian civilians whilst a dictator continues to do his worst killing innocent civilians. Sending weapons to be used by people untrained in the use of them is half ar5ed and pathetic. Half a job. Perfect for a lunatic dictator.

I’m struggling to understand what you want.

Your posts seem like you want WWIII to kick off…..