Russia Invades

[Wile E Coyote]

some on here treat this like a game, grow up, and consider the suffering . jesus !!!
its not top trumps you sick minded idiots.

[Vegas Claret]

some on here treat this like a game, grow up, and consider the suffering . jesus !!!
its not top trumps you sick minded idiots.

actually it's completely the opposite, there are things we could post that are beyond horrific and we have refrained from doing so because of the reasons you suggest, I doubt very much anyone thinks this is a game.
To suggest what you are saying is pretty poor from you Wile, not like you tbh.

[Wile E Coyote]

actually it's completely the opposite, there are things we could post that are beyond horrific and we have refrained from doing so because of the reasons you suggest, I doubt very much anyone thinks this is a game.
To suggest what you are saying is pretty poor from you Wile, not like you tbh.

I know it Vegas, Im losing the plot. Apologies.

[Vegas Claret]

I know it Vegas, Im losing the plot. Apologies.

no worries mate, figured you were ****** off with the result tonight !! At least you know I don't think you are a mad man !!

[Vegas Claret]

...

[CrosspoolClarets]

Horrendous of course and tragic for Ukraine but one bright side to this is that it is abundantly clear Russia are totally incapable of moving against NATO. I had previously been concerned because Vlad has been angling for this for a decade or more, but I’m astonished at so many aspects of this, poorly trained kids, lack of missile stock, poor logistics (sorry, not poor, need to invent a new word for how bad it is).

My instinct is that this is what you get when paranoia rules and only the very top brass know what is about to happen so none of the officers lower down have a chance to prepare.

My other takeaway today is that I felt sorry for the Russian people too. They have to live in a country that is pretty naff already but with sanctions is going to become a big Venezuela. No winners in this pointless farce. Let’s hope it brings the world together and we finally see the end of this kind of conflict with leaders worthy of the name.

[Vegas Claret]

Apple have announced it is halting all product sales in Russia

[Colburn_Claret]

Horrendous of course and tragic for Ukraine but one bright side to this is that it is abundantly clear Russia are totally incapable of moving against NATO. I had previously been concerned because Vlad has been angling for this for a decade or more, but I’m astonished at so many aspects of this, poorly trained kids, lack of missile stock, poor logistics (sorry, not poor, need to invent a new word for how bad it is).

My instinct is that this is what you get when paranoia rules and only the very top brass know what is about to happen so none of the officers lower down have a chance to prepare.

My other takeaway today is that I felt sorry for the Russian people too. They have to live in a country that is pretty naff already but with sanctions is going to become a big Venezuela. No winners in this pointless farce. Let’s hope it brings the world together and we finally see the end of this kind of conflict with leaders worthy of the name.

I too feel sympathy for the Russian people, they are as innocent as we are regards the situation in Ukraine, but at the end of the day, they are the only ones who can change the situation. They could remove Putin tomorrow, but it would take a lot of courage from an awful lot of them to do it. Living in fear of a knock on the door for so long can sap anyones courage.

[Vegas Claret]

Horrendous of course and tragic for Ukraine but one bright side to this is that it is abundantly clear Russia are totally incapable of moving against NATO. I had previously been concerned because Vlad has been angling for this for a decade or more, but I’m astonished at so many aspects of this, poorly trained kids, lack of missile stock, poor logistics (sorry, not poor, need to invent a new word for how bad it is).

My instinct is that this is what you get when paranoia rules and only the very top brass know what is about to happen so none of the officers lower down have a chance to prepare.

My other takeaway today is that I felt sorry for the Russian people too. They have to live in a country that is pretty naff already but with sanctions is going to become a big Venezuela. No winners in this pointless farce. Let’s hope it brings the world together and we finally see the end of this kind of conflict with leaders worthy of the name.

so far it has been abject but don't kid yourself, they have a lot more firepower they haven't used in Ukraine yet. I agree though on the wider point, no match at all for NATO (until we put the unknown of Nukes into the equation). I was reading an article earlier by someone with a lot of military years under his belt and he said the way that the Russians had strategically set up NATO would have won this war within an hour from the air.

[elwaclaret]

Elite Chechen hit squad sent by Russia to take out the Ukraine President as been taken out.
https://twitter.com/laughing_stoic/stat ... 10530?s=21

[elwaclaret]

so far it has been abject but don't kid yourself, they have a lot more firepower they haven't used in Ukraine yet. I agree though on the wider point, no match at all for NATO (until we put the unknown of Nukes into the equation). I was reading an article earlier by someone with a lot of military years under his belt and he said the way that the Russians had strategically set up NATO would have won this war within an hour from the air.

US officials are at a loss to where the AirPower is, various talking heads about including former NATO commanders; some even suggesting Russian capability has once again been overestimated by the West. Of course it could also be that Ukraine is only the first salvo and he’s keeping his better stuff back for taking on bigger fish.

[Vegas Claret]

US officials are at a loss to where the AirPower is, various talking heads about including former NATO commanders; some even suggesting Russian capability has once again been overestimated by the West. Of course it could also be that Ukraine is only the first salvo and he’s keeping his better stuff back for taking on bigger fish.

he wont have the money or inventory to take on anyone else. The Russian AF is utterly dwarfed by the US one alone never mind a NATO fleet

[elwaclaret]

Belarusian President helping the defence… the moron was pointing at a map to his Generals in a show of power for tele… the map had several next phase moves no one had any idea about, along with the ones already attacking.

[elwaclaret]

Exxo follow BP and Shell in pulling out of Russian supply deals.

[elwaclaret]

BBC adding xtra services into Ukraine

https://twitter.com/kevincore/status/14 ... 86340?s=21

[elwaclaret]

Reuters: Ukrainian cyber attacks taking out chunks of the Russian grid

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1498 ... 93319?s=21

[Spiral]

Elite Chechen hit squad sent by Russia to take out the Ukraine President as been taken out.
https://twitter.com/laughing_stoic/stat ... 10530?s=21

Remarkably it has been reported that the Ukrainians were alerted to the assassination plot by members of the Russian federal security service opposed to the war. So much disunity seems apparent. Between this, the poor morale in the Russian ranks; the apparent confusion of the invaders; the supposed surprise at the launch of the invasion beyond the separatist quasi-states to those Russian military commanders outside of Putin's close inner circle; recent reports of Russians in Crimea refusing to go to war; Russian soldiers sabotaging their own vehicles to avoid fighting, and more, the picture that has emerged over the last few days is one of calamity and isolation akin to the downfall of virtually every dictator through history, and that's before we get to the impending annihilation of the Russian economy.

[Vegas Claret]

near Kharkiv, no idea how Ukraine battles against this type of firepower with not much of an air force
https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status ... YgD3Slc0ig

[Spiral]

Think in terms of 'brands', of the reputation and appeal of these things: democracy, dictatorship, communism, authoritarianism, fascism, liberalism, atavism, progressivism, nationalism, isolationism, internationalism, even diplomacy — every now and again we witness these large scale events that damage the reputations of some of those 'brands' and strengthen the case for others to varying degrees, in different ways, to many differing peoples depending on their nations' political situations and their involvement and mood toward such scale events.

I hope and suspect, if there's any hope at all to come out of this tragedy, that over the last few weeks Putin has inflicted a savage wound on the reputation of the 'brand' of the strongman dictator and all its associations, and this will have recalibrating effects around the world wherever any populist in power, or with aspiration to it, models him or herself on Putin, one of the biggest posterboys in the world for that type of ruler. It seems over the last decade as though globally there has been an appetite growing for the fascistic strongman, but its credibility could be smashed by these events, even if Putin succeeds in his immediate goals, because he and everything associated with him is now pariah. Probably not the best time or place to discuss this, I know, but one can hope for a small mercy as we look on sickened by what's happening to the Ukrainian people. If Putin falls because of this and if we get a calmer Russia because of it (anything could happen from here, could get better, could get worse), if the invasion should backfire catastrophically and the rest of the world is relieved of a madman and ultimately is made a bit safer because of it, we've got the Ukrainians and the Ukrainians alone to thank for it.

[Vegas Claret]

Think in terms of 'brands', of the reputation and appeal of these things: democracy, dictatorship, communism, authoritarianism, fascism, liberalism, atavism, progressivism, nationalism, isolationism, internationalism, even diplomacy — every now and again we witness these large scale events that damage the reputations of some of those 'brands' and strengthen the case for others to varying degrees, in different ways, to many differing peoples depending on their nations' political situations and their involvement and mood toward such scale events.

I hope and suspect, if there's any hope at all to come out of this tragedy, that over the last few weeks Putin has inflicted a savage wound on the reputation of the 'brand' of the strongman dictator and all its associations, and this will have recalibrating effects around the world wherever any populist in power, or with aspiration to it, models him or herself on Putin, one of the biggest posterboys in the world for that type of ruler. It seems over the last decade as though globally there has been an appetite growing for the fascistic strongman, but its credibility could be smashed by these events, even if Putin succeeds in his immediate goals, because he and everything associated with him is now pariah. Probably not the best time or place to discuss this, I know, but one can hope for a small mercy as we look on sickened by what's happening to the Ukrainian people. If Putin falls because of this and if we get a calmer Russia because of it (anything could happen from here, could get better, could get worse), if the invasion should backfire catastrophically and the rest of the world is relieved of a madman and ultimately is made a bit safer because of it, we've got the Ukrainians and the Ukrainians alone to thank for it.

I'm not a historian but what Putin is doing may well go down in history as one of the biggest backfires of all time

[AlargeClaret]

There seems to be an almost incredible lack of understanding with many “ Twitter is truth” types about war propaganda and how it works and skews, twists lies and distorts . While it’s very much a two way street , never ever believe things quoting “ elite assassination squads” and “ special forces action” etc etc . Do people think ultra covert military actions in war are just texted over to some terrified bedroom based gamers ? There’s been some good posts on this thread but the constant referencing of unverified 25th hand social media sources is a touch ridiculous.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

FIFPRO rep on 5live has confirmed two Ukrainian footballers have died in the fighting

[GodIsADeeJay81]

They've also been helping foreign footballers to get out of Ukraine

[Lancasterclaret]

BBC doing a really good job on how Russian TV is essentially a disinformation tool

There are not a lot, if any, pro-Russian accounts online that can be trusted to show accurate information, because that is not what they are for

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60571737

[ŽižkovClaret]

I wonder what Bismarck would make of it all, seeing Russia successfully isolating themselves

[Firthy]

near Kharkiv, no idea how Ukraine battles against this type of firepower with not much of an air force
https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status ... YgD3Slc0ig

If the west really want to help them with armaments, the best thing they can do is give them planes. Ukraine must have pilots available to fly them. Won't happen though, they can't even ban all Russian banks from the Swift system because it will hurt the West's economy.

[Lancasterclaret]

Wheat prices

https://twitter.com/tinderella1844/stat ... 2641775617

Gas prices

https://twitter.com/OilSheppard/status/ ... 9717906436

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If the west really want to help them with armaments, the best thing they can do is give them planes. Ukraine must have pilots available to fly them. Won't happen though, they can't even ban all Russian banks from the Swift system because it will hurt the West's economy.

Ukrainian pilots will only be trained on certain planes and their Airforce equipped to handle/refuel/rearm those planes, most of which are old Soviet fighter jets.

So just giving them planes from other countries will only help if it's like for like right now.

[Lancasterclaret]

There seems to be an almost incredible lack of understanding with many “ Twitter is truth” types about war propaganda and how it works and skews, twists lies and distorts . While it’s very much a two way street , never ever believe things quoting “ elite assassination squads” and “ special forces action” etc etc . Do people think ultra covert military actions in war are just texted over to some terrified bedroom based gamers ? There’s been some good posts on this thread but the constant referencing of unverified 25th hand social media sources is a touch ridiculous.

It all depends on which accounts you follow

Plenty of wheat among the chaff, and its surprisingly easy to find them if you want to

Its also very easy to find disinformation stuff of course, but they will become very obvious if they are followed over time

Essentially, if you work at having a good, reliable twitter feed, then you'll get a good reliable twitter feed

It does help though if you begin at a position that Russia has been actively running huge disinformation campaigns against the West for at least a decade

If you don't accept that, then you are going to find twitter a mass of disinformation because it challenges what you believe, and its whether you want those beliefs to be challenged

[Lancasterclaret]

Depressing, and I fear all too accurate analysis of what will happen next

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... 4938757121

[RVclaret]

Depressing, and I fear all too accurate analysis of what will happen next

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... 4938757121

Yep agree with this

[Lancasterclaret]

Yep agree with this

The huge positive I would say is that Ukraine will still exist, which was 100% not the Russian plan

And its only been a week

I'll keep reiterating this, but the reaction in the last six days worldwide means everyday Putin continues this, the bigger a strategic defeat it is for him

[CoolClaret]

Depressing, and I fear all too accurate analysis of what will happen next

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... 4938757121

I’m hoping that Putin realises that his goals cannot be achieved without serious ramifications and to ‘save face’ he claims ‘victory’ by glorifying an relatively ‘minor’ action as overwhelming success, rather than continuing hellbent on this newfound attempt of attrition.

Ps sorry for the personal attack on a thread a few weeks back - I was out of order.

[Firthy]

Depressing, and I fear all too accurate analysis of what will happen next

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... 4938757121

Unfortunately Putin doesn't care about sanctions and they will take too long to have enough affect to stop him. The West will have to make a decision at some point, to either go to war with Russia or give up on the Ukraine. It will come down to risking a nuclear war or NATO and the West looking week and toothless.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hahahahaha!

https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/ ... 9138685952

[Lancasterclaret]

Unfortunately Putin doesn't care about sanctions and they will take too long to have enough affect to stop him. The West will have to make a decision at some point, to either go to war with Russia or give up on the Ukraine. It will come down to risking a nuclear war or NATO and the West looking week and toothless.

Sanctions will cripple the Russian economy. Period.

They don't stop unless he stops, and they will continue even if he wins, so he doesn't win

He has to get that, and millions of Russians will as well

It has to be given time though, and there is nothing stopping the West supplying Ukraine for the foreseeable future

[Lancasterclaret]

I’m hoping that Putin realises that his goals cannot be achieved without serious ramifications and to ‘save face’ he claims ‘victory’ by glorifying an relatively ‘minor’ action as overwhelming success, rather than continuing hellbent on this newfound attempt of attrition.

Ps sorry for the personal attack on a thread a few weeks back - I was out of order.

No bother at all

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Depressing, and I fear all too accurate analysis of what will happen next

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... 4938757121

(Retired) British, Major-General Jonathan Shaw has been on 5live this morning and he suspects Russia is going to level Kharkiv, as a means to intimidate the rest of Ukraine.

[Lancasterclaret]

(Retired) British, Major-General Jonathan Shaw has been on 5live this morning and he suspects Russia is going to level Kharkiv, as a means to intimidate the rest of Ukraine.

Madness

Kharkiv is in and populated by more ethnic Russians than the rest of Ukraine

Plus its a "Hero City" because of the fierce fighting there in 41-43

Its as big an own goal as you are likely to see

[Firthy]

Sanctions will cripple the Russian economy. Period.

They don't stop unless he stops, and they will continue even if he wins, so he doesn't win

He has to get that, and millions of Russians will as well

It has to be given time though, and there is nothing stopping the West supplying Ukraine for the foreseeable future

But how many Ukrainians will be killed and how much damage to the major cities will be done by the time the sanctions have enough affect.

[Lancasterclaret]

But how many Ukrainians will be killed and how much damage to the major cities will be done by the time the sanctions have enough affect.

That isn't our decision to make

Its either Ukraines or Russia

And you've seen the pics like I have.

How likely is you think that even if Russia captures Ukraine that that it doesn't become far, far, far worse for them than Afghanistan?

[Lancasterclaret]

Primary school kids arrested in Moscow for laying flowers at the Ukrainian embassy and holding "No to war" banners

https://twitter.com/ggatehouse/status/1 ... 7817548803

[ClaretLoup]

Does Russia have any allies or support in the International Community?

Perversely Communist State Cuba has long had links with Russia/USSR and has come out and backed Putin's "Special Military Operation" against Ukraine/NATO aggression.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 38508.html

Putin made a visit to Cuba as well as several other Latin American countries in 2014 presumably to rally support for his annexation of Crimea. Whilst in Cuba, he cancelled historic debts of $35 billion and received the Marti Award, Cuba's highest decoration which might go some way to explaining their ardour for Vlad.

Apparently Venezuela and Nicaragua are also backing Putin, along with Cuba, countries that choose to ignore the global disaster that is 700,000 refugees, exponentially rising energy prices and possible food shortages. .

[Lancasterclaret]

Does Russia have any allies or support in the International Community?

Perversely Communist State Cuba has long had links with Russia/USSR and has come out and backed Putin's "Special Military Operation" against Ukraine/NATO aggression.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 38508.html

Putin made a visit to Cuba as well as several other Latin American countries in 2014 presumably to rally support for his annexation of Crimea. Whilst in Cuba, he cancelled historic debts of $35 billion and received the Marti Award, Cuba's highest decoration which might go some way to explaining their ardour for Vlad.

Apparently Venezuela and Nicaragua are also backing Putin, along with Cuba, countries that choose to ignore the global disaster that is 700,000 refugees, exponentially rising energy prices and possible food shortages. .

Still got ties with the Middle Eastern countries and India

Not sure about the Middle East, but India is wary of China and essentially its armed forces are pretty much 100% Russian equipment

[GodIsADeeJay81]

'Spoons have banned russian beer ...

[elwaclaret]

I'm not a historian but what Putin is doing may well go down in history as one of the biggest backfires of all time

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts perspective absolutely. Many many examples from Ancient times to modern day.

[elwaclaret]

It all depends on which accounts you follow

Plenty of wheat among the chaff, and its surprisingly easy to find them if you want to

Its also very easy to find disinformation stuff of course, but they will become very obvious if they are followed over time

Essentially, if you work at having a good, reliable twitter feed, then you'll get a good reliable twitter feed

It does help though if you begin at a position that Russia has been actively running huge disinformation campaigns against the West for at least a decade

If you don't accept that, then you are going to find twitter a mass of disinformation because it challenges what you believe, and its whether you want those beliefs to be challenged

Precisely. I only have people I know and Archeologists, Historians and Political commentators of very high repute… other sources are followed because of re-tweets by people whose job it is to sift information. The BBC has bent over backwards in their attempts to offer balance since the Russians attacked, even though several Ukrainian officials have asked them to stop. The biggest signals of how out of ‘the box’ Russia is, is by listening to what they are actually saying.

[ClaretInLeeds]

'Spoons have banned russian beer ...

You laugh, but what companies are effectively doing is ostracising Russia in any way possible. Advertising, promotion, buying from Russian suppliers and procuring Russian made assets will hurt Putin because his own people will turn on him and, at worst, remove him from power.

As trivial as it seems, every little statement like this will help Ukraine.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

International Paralympic Committee are, under their current rules, legally unable to ban Russian and Belarusian Paralympians.
They can compete under the Paralympian flag, have that anthem and obviously not allowed to wear their countries colours.

However they won't be included on any medal tables.

The IPC plan to meet later this year to discuss a change to the rules, looking at making entrance to the games reliant on the international behaviour of the country itself

[BigChaCha]

Somebody earlier up in the thread mentioned the latest Bald & Bankrupt video of his escape from Kyiv and his travels with the refugees up to the Polish border...

... I have just watched a few additional vloggers videos, including Johnny FD who was travelling with Ben (Bald & Bankrupt) and in all of the videos, it shows that the vast majority of 'refugees' are not from war-torn Ukraine but are in fact people from the traveller community from other East European countries taking advantage of the situation and going through the West of Ukraine to the borders to claim refugee status and to find a better lifestyle in the West... They were also pushing in front of the real refugees in the ques at the borders as well, added masses of family members jumping the line, much to the frustration and upset to the real Ukrainian refugees!

... It is not only the East that will see changes but we will feel the repercussions in Western Europe as well for decades to come!