Russia Invades

[conyoviejo]

And millions around the world including in the UK could die and radiation could be around for decades. It's not for us to get directly involved unless he takes on Poland or another Nato country.

Which he's daft enough to do..

[Nonayforever]

Some good news, sounds like there is an agreement on humanitarian corridors out of the war zones

Course Russia will be bang in favour of this, as more refugees is more pressure on the West

My first post on this thread.

That is exactly the reason this war was started.

Taking everything into account, economically Russia are going to be up the spout for a long time, everyone apart from Putin is concerned by that. Most have chosen the money while he has chosen power. I think when the end of this comes he will think " if i'm going , then everyone is going "

[Hipper]

More on Russian Air Forces apparent lack of success

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... performing

It's a bit impertinent of me to say it but I'm not too impressed by that report.

It talks more then once about 'the poor performance of the Russian Air Force (known as the VKS)' and claiming it 'has failed to achieve air superiority'. As it seems they haven't appeared anywhere that means in fact that they haven't performed at all, perhaps by design (has anyone seen film or pictures of VKS aircraft in the air or crashed on the ground?).

They also say that the 'Ukrainian Air Force and its air defence elements have continued to operate, albeit at a lower capacity'. I haven't heard of any interference in Russian efforts by the Ukrainian Airforce (UAF). What have they achieved? There's a big juicy convoy near Kviv that's been there for a few days now but that doesn't seem to have been attacked by the UAF. Are they biding there time for the main attack on Kviv or do they not exist as an effective force?

Traditional air force ops would be attacking the enemy air force, defending ground forces from the enemy air force, ground attack and perhaps reconnaissance (this latter probably done by satellites now). They also offer moral support to the troops on the ground and the opposite for their enemies. The first two don't seem necessary as there's no activity from their air opponents. Ground attack may still occur but they are using ground fired missiles and shells instead. Perhaps the Russians fear ground defences. They may have used helicopters though so maybe they don't.

[Cubanforever]

We've got to be getting close to the point when one of his own bumps him off

[Lancasterclaret]

It's a bit impertinent of me to say it but I'm not too impressed by that report.

It talks more then once about 'the poor performance of the Russian Air Force (known as the VKS)' and claiming it 'has failed to achieve air superiority'. As it seems they haven't appeared anywhere that means in fact that they haven't performed at all, perhaps by design (has anyone seen film or pictures of VKS aircraft in the air or crashed on the ground?).

They also say that the 'Ukrainian Air Force and its air defence elements have continued to operate, albeit at a lower capacity'. I haven't heard of any interference in Russian efforts by the Ukrainian Airforce (UAF). What have they achieved? There's a big juicy convoy near Kviv that's been there for a few days now but that doesn't seem to have been attacked by the UAF. Are they biding there time for the main attack on Kviv or do they not exist as an effective force?

Traditional air force ops would be attacking the enemy air force, defending ground forces from the enemy air force, ground attack and perhaps reconnaissance (this latter probably done by satellites now). They also offer moral support to the troops on the ground and the opposite for their enemies. The first two don't seem necessary as there's no activity from their air opponents. Ground attack may still occur but they are using ground fired missiles and shells instead. Perhaps the Russians fear ground defences. They may have used helicopters though so maybe they don't.

Fair enough, but its Janes, who are still one of the premier military/weapons info sites out there, and there is another article further back up the thread that comes to exactly the same conclusion

[Hipper]

My first post on this thread.

That is exactly the reason this war was started.

Taking everything into account, economically Russia are going to be up the spout for a long time, everyone apart from Putin is concerned by that. Most have chosen the money while he has chosen power. I think when the end of this comes he will think " if i'm going , then everyone is going "

From what I recall I don't think Putin 'chose' power. He had to take power to protect the wealth he'd accumulated along with that of his fellow gangsters. Otherwise he would have ended up like the other wealthy people who did not back him - in jail, in exile and at risk of death, or just dead.

[Lancasterclaret]

My first post on this thread.

That is exactly the reason this war was started.

Taking everything into account, economically Russia are going to be up the spout for a long time, everyone apart from Putin is concerned by that. Most have chosen the money while he has chosen power. I think when the end of this comes he will think " if i'm going , then everyone is going "

And that is when you hope that someone near him goes "Well, if you want to go, then go, but you are not taking everyone else with you"

[Burt]

I saw that and don't remember, I do remember one that said Russia lost in Afghanistan when the ratio was 1 Russian to 9 Afghans and the current situation in Ukraine was 1 to 144

It was on 5 live and the general accepted ratio required for a stable occupation was 1 soldier for every 20 residents

However recent occupations have called that ratio into Q. Bedtime reading!


https://www.google.com/search?q=soldier ... e&ie=UTF-8

[TheFamilyCat]

We've got to be getting close to the point when one of his own bumps him off

We can live in hope.

[Colburn_Claret]

My first post on this thread.

That is exactly the reason this war was started.

Taking everything into account, economically Russia are going to be up the spout for a long time, everyone apart from Putin is concerned by that. Most have chosen the money while he has chosen power. I think when the end of this comes he will think " if i'm going , then everyone is going "

I think its naive to think that Putin hasn't got as many billions stashed away as the oligarchs. You're right though when you say the power is more important to him.

[Hipper]

Fair enough, but its Janes, who are still one of the premier military/weapons info sites out there, and there is another article further back up the thread that comes to exactly the same conclusion

That's why I said I was being a bit impertinent! I'm no Air Marshall.

I know Jane's has a reputation (I remember 'Jane's Fighting Ships) but as far as I can see they are just another business selling advice these days.

Anyway no evidence has been produced to support the article's case. Is there any?

[summitclaret]

We've got to be getting close to the point when one of his own bumps him off

Claus von Stauffenberg https://g.co/kgs/CygdP2

[Belgianclaret]

Watched the documentary Winter of fire on Netflix yesterday on Orange Revolution in 2014.

Definitely worth a watch.

No way the Ukrainian people will ever accept Russian occupation

[Paul Waine]

Not so good news, Putin is telling Russians that Russia and Ukrainians are one people

The fact that 45 million Ukrainians don't want that is complicating that a tad

Do you mind if I suggest that Russia and Ukraine are very close together. They shared c.70 years as part of the Soviet Union, many/all of them deeply troubling years, whether you lived in Russia or in the Ukraine. Many people born in Ukraine are married to people born in Russia. Of course, Ukraine, for the most part, wants freedom from a Russian dictatorship. So, do most of the people in Russia, as do most of the people in the other nations that were either part of the Soviet Union or subjugated in the East European communist bloc.

Think of Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Poland in 1980/81 and the rise of Solidarity.

Think of the joy felt in Germany as west and east were unified with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[Lancasterclaret]

That's why I said I was being a bit impertinent! I'm no Air Marshall.

I know Jane's has a reputation (I remember 'Jane's Fighting Ships) but as far as I can see they are just another business selling advice these days.

Anyway no evidence has been produced to support the article's case. Is there any?

Well, apart from the fact that the Ukrainians still have an airforce, they still contest their own airspace, and they are capable of slowing down one of the biggest armies in the world, no

[elwaclaret]

My first post on this thread.

That is exactly the reason this war was started.

Taking everything into account, economically Russia are going to be up the spout for a long time, everyone apart from Putin is concerned by that. Most have chosen the money while he has chosen power. I think when the end of this comes he will think " if i'm going , then everyone is going "

There are four Generals who need to agree, including their Chief of Staff who Putin embarrassed on State national TV by clearly not discussing the Nuclear option. Only a crumb, really but hope at least.

[Burt]

It was on 5 live and the general accepted ratio required for a stable occupation was 1 soldier for every 20 residents

However recent occupations have called that ratio into Q. Bedtime reading!


https://www.google.com/search?q=soldier ... e&ie=UTF-8

Sorry its the 'boots on the ground' pdf file about 6 searches down

[AlargeClaret]

Claus von Stauffenberg https://g.co/kgs/CygdP2

Let’s hope if anyone does plot against Putin’s life it doesn’t end up a’ CVS” for everyone’s sake . Though the chance of a coup from within may be very realistic if things get really heavy

[Lancasterclaret]

Certainly worth pointing out that Van Staffenburg didn't actually kill Hitler, and arguably made things worse

[elwaclaret]

Fair enough, but its Janes, who are still one of the premier military/weapons info sites out there, and there is another article further back up the thread that comes to exactly the same conclusion

Referring of course to the Ukrainian fighter that took out half a dozen Russians before being forced to eject.

[elwaclaret]

Reuters reporting that EU are meeting to remove Russia from WTO.

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1499 ... 18946?s=21

[Hipper]

Well, apart from the fact that the Ukrainians still have an airforce, they still contest their own airspace, and they are capable of slowing down one of the biggest armies in the world, no

The Ukrainian Airforce has done this? I never heard that. Where is this airforce? Again have we seen film/photos of their activities. You would think it would make good propaganda for the Ukrainians.

[elwaclaret]

Fear of attack on Moldova has led to USA Sec of State to visit region.

[Lancasterclaret]

The Ukrainian Airforce has done this? I never heard that. Where is this airforce? Again have we seen film/photos of their activities. You would think it would make good propaganda for the Ukrainians.

Right

You don't see Russian planes dominating the sky over Ukraine do you?

Ukrainian drones are targeting Russian troop and supply convoys quite easily btw, and that is a clear sign as its possible to have that the Russian air force is not doing its job properly

There are at least two videos I've seen of Ukrainian combat aircraft, one a Mig-29 battling a Su-25, and another one of a Su-24 bombing a Russian troop convoy

Pretty easy to find to be honest

I don't really understand your point here. You read the expert analysis (better than your or mine we agree!), disagree with it, but you disagree with it with a set of assumptions about what you think the Ukrainian air force should be doing, when that is exactly what it is doing.

After one week of the war, considering how one sided the air war should be, the fact that Russia has achieved none of the objectives that you need to do suggests to me that the article is bang on .

EDIT - might have got the numbers of the SUs the wrong way around, or even the wrong numbers as I'm going from memory here!

[Vegas Claret]

re-posting this as nobody replied:

someone asked me a question before (not on here) and I couldn't give them an answer - his question

What would happen if half of Europe's civilians decided to walk into Ukraine unarmed - would Putin still bomb the hell out of it knowing that these people were from NATO countries ?

[elwaclaret]

re-posting this as nobody replied:

someone asked me a question before (not on here) and I couldn't give them an answer - his question

What would happen if half of Europe's civilians decided to walk into Ukraine unarmed - would Putin still bomb the hell out of it knowing that these people were from NATO countries ?

Putin would have a lot of hostages.

[jos]

We've got to be getting close to the point when one of his own bumps him off

Which is probably why he keeps his distance and sits at the very far end of the table etc… all weapons would be handed in prior to an audience/meeting so out of arms reach (pardon the pun)

[Hipper]

I found this:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/air-wa ... irst-days/

My point is the experts say things but we are just supposed to accept them - 'the poor performance of the Russian Air Force' when hardly anyone has seen them; 'the Ukrainian Air Force still active' - where?

There has been nowhere near the air activity that we might have expected and the fact that we haven't seen anything (or hardly anything then) from either side means that's probably true. And again, if the Ukrainian Air Force are still active what are they doing? The author doesn't address any of these points.

Are drones the responsibility of the air forces? And what were the Russian Air Forces objectives?

I'd expect better.

Anyway, hold the war. There's an interesting cup match to watch.

[Colburn_Claret]

re-posting this as nobody replied:

someone asked me a question before (not on here) and I couldn't give them an answer - his question

What would happen if half of Europe's civilians decided to walk into Ukraine unarmed - would Putin still bomb the hell out of it knowing that these people were from NATO countries ?

I think he would, he would just see it as an imperialist ploy by the decadent West. When dealing with a nutter its wise to tread carefully, it isn't going to take much to tip him over the edge.

[elwaclaret]

China being leaned on by its SA trading partners to stand against Russia, who is destroying the world trade network they worked so hard to join.

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1499 ... 70560?s=21

[Paul Waine]

Is this the thread to post that Russia Football Union is appealing ban imposed by FIFA and EUFA?

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60607645

A statement from Russian football authorities said it "believes that Fifa and Uefa did not have a legal basis when deciding on the removal of Russian teams".

That's more than a little ironic? Where is Putin's "legal basis" to invade another sovereign nation?

[Cubanforever]

re-posting this as nobody replied:

someone asked me a question before (not on here) and I couldn't give them an answer - his question

What would happen if half of Europe's civilians decided to walk into Ukraine unarmed - would Putin still bomb the hell out of it knowing that these people were from NATO countries ?

It sounds great on paper but the realities of needing food, water and shelter would take away from the people already there...then there would be injuries, people wanting to turn round etc...its a nice sentiment though

[Vegas Claret]

It sounds great on paper but the realities of needing food, water and shelter would take away from the people already there...then there would be injuries, people wanting to turn round etc...its a nice sentiment though

yeah my response to him was Putin's an idiot and he'd just double down but I thought I'd ask on here for other opinions. Got what I expected !

Cheers to those that responded

[elwaclaret]

IKEA pull out of Russia.

[Cubanforever]

If Russia get the cities they are going for now how will they be able to push west and get the rest of Ukraine.....and I'm not saying they are going to get what they are going for now

[elwaclaret]

Is this the thread to post that Russia Football Union is appealing ban imposed by FIFA and EUFA?

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60607645

A statement from Russian football authorities said it "believes that Fifa and Uefa did not have a legal basis when deciding on the removal of Russian teams".

That's more than a little ironic? Where is Putin's "legal basis" to invade another sovereign nation?

Russian Dictionary IRONY made of Iron.

[bfcjg]

This thread was started almost 4 years ago slightly tongue in cheek to try to provoke debate. Never thought it would happen.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... t=Fracking

[bfcjg]

IKEA pull out of Russia.

Wish they'd pull out of here, hate going but happy wife happy life.

[summitclaret]

Wish they'd pull out of here, hate going but happy wife happy life.

I don't hate much, but I hate IKEA. I'd rather buy a season ticket for Ewood than ever go again.

[Vegas Claret]

This thread was started almost 4 years ago slightly tongue in cheek to try to provoke debate. Never thought it would happen.
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... t=Fracking

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1499456111497334787

No wonder Ukraine is doing so much better than everyone thought

Bet they are getting real time troop/aircraft intelligence that the Russians can only dream of

[Lancasterclaret]

Iranian President not too happy with Putin

https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/sta ... 5803579402

[bfcjg]

https://twitter.com/JM_Szuba/status/1499456111497334787

No wonder Ukraine is doing so much better than everyone thought

Bet they are getting real time troop/aircraft intelligence that the Russians can only dream of

NATO are dismantling the Russian war machine by proxy.

[elwaclaret]

Russian chess champion not cowering over what needs to be done.

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1499 ... 33253?s=21

[Lancasterclaret]

NATO are dismantling the Russian war machine by proxy.

And they have told everyone they are doing it

So the Russians will be looking at their battle plan, and thinking "The Ukrainians will know about this as soon as we give the order, probably before we give the order"

Way to go

[bfcjg]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newswe ... 31%3famp=1
This guy has some balls to do that on live tv, there are more and more people going off message.

[Lancasterclaret]

Look at the damage to the buildings

I just hope the civilians are getting out while they can

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1499488533622448134

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Fuel prices have jumped 3p today, now at £160.9per ltr.

Where AWE is, Tadley, it's jumped 10p over the last 48hrs.

I'm expecting it to hit £2 in the next week or so.

[gandhisflipflop]

Fuel prices have jumped 3p today, now at £160.9per ltr.

Where AWE is, Tadley, it's jumped 10p over the last 48hrs.

I'm expecting it to hit £2 in the next week or so.

I work in the fuel industry and £2 a litre is not an unrealistic prediction. I talk to a lot of transport managers and one today said he saw 1.80 on the motorway.

[elwaclaret]

Think £2 is the least we can expect. Growing pressure stateside for Bidon to re-open/sanction new refineries as an interim measure following the OPEC decision.