Russia Invades

[Lancasterclaret]

Rob Lees got a video of a Rosgvardia convoy abandoned/destroyed near Khark'iv

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1500240859492757506

[NewClaret]

MasterCard & Visa cease Russian operations. Presumably that causes some big big problems for their economy, particularly with Apple & Android pay withdrawn?

[Lancasterclaret]

MasterCard & Visa cease Russian operations. Presumably that causes some big big problems for their economy, particularly with Apple & Android pay withdrawn?

You'd assume so, but this is an area where no one really knows

I mean, its never happened before

This is all new ground

And if it works, then any country who wants to invade somewhere has to think about the economic consequences

[NewClaret]

You'd assume so, but this is an area where no one really knows

I mean, its never happened before

This is all new ground

And if it works, then any country who wants to invade somewhere has to think about the economic consequences

Do they have their own payment companies/systems in Russia?

If not, that’s basically electronic payments taken out and the Russians back to cash. Will presumably cause utter carnage.

[Spiral]

Visa has 60% market share in Russia.

[Colburn_Claret]

From what I have read, in Russia, all TV stations have been shut down. As has Facebook and Twitter .

The new law brought in today would also mean sharing so called false news, ie civilian shelling would result in a 15 year jail penalty.

Not a good idea to be in a Russian jail.

There's no greater divide between our countries, where we have the freedom to burn effigies of the PM, rally against the Royal family, and yet all you get is a 'move along, please', and Russians can face 15 years for telling the truth.
I said earlier, I have great sympathy for the Russian people, they are just as much victims as the Ukrainians. The difference being many of them don't even recognise they are victims.
Any society, where you can't have freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of self determination, is a cancer that needs removing.

[elwaclaret]

Do they have their own payment companies/systems in Russia?

If not, that’s basically electronic payments taken out and the Russians back to cash. Will presumably cause utter carnage.

With the rubble falling like a stone I can well imagine that is a sickening blow, but it makes financial sense for their business, rather than any grandiose gesture, surely? For the same reasons Russians are spending their savings, which is ironically giving one last hurrah for luxuries… nobody wants Rubbles.

[Spiral]

Visa has 60% market share in Russia.

Though to add, this refers to e-commerce. Russians use cash a hell of a lot more than we do. Notable, but not anywhere near as economically damaging as it would be in the UK.

[Vegas Claret]

There's no greater divide between our countries, where we have the freedom to burn effigies of the PM, rally against the Royal family, and yet all you get is a 'move along, please', and Russians can face 15 years for telling the truth.
I said earlier, I have great sympathy for the Russian people, they are just as much victims as the Ukrainians. The difference being many of them don't even recognise they are victims.
Any society, where you can't have freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of self determination, is a cancer that needs removing.

well said

[elwaclaret]

Though to add, this refers to e-commerce. Russians use cash a hell of a lot more than we do. Notable, but not anywhere near as economically damaging as it would be in the UK.

The Rubble is worth roughly half what is was 2 weeks ago.

[Spiral]

I said earlier, I have great sympathy for the Russian people, they are just as much victims as the Ukrainians. The difference being many of them don't even recognise they are victims.

I get what you mean, but they can't compare in that way. Putin isn't trying to wipe Russia off the map.

[Spiral]

The Rubble is worth roughly half what is was 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, I know. We're talking about the impact of Visa and Mastercard suspending operations in Russia.

[elwaclaret]

Yeah, I know. We're talking about the impact of Visa and Mastercard suspending operations in Russia.

Sorry, the point being when you find yourself short of a few bob, people instinctively dig into credit to maintain their lifestyle. Without that the heat only turns up on the Ruble its a huge blow and better than posturing - they are out because Russia is only going to carry on in one direction.

[Colburn_Claret]

I get what you mean, but they can't compare in that way. Putin isn't trying to wipe Russia off the map.

That depends whether you are talking physically or metaphorically. If Putin isn't stopped, there is no win for the Russian people. A people that have only recently, in political terms, started to understand the benefits of Western Society. To have that taken away is terrible, and on a personal note, I'd rather be free fighting in the rubble of a Ukrainian city, than mentally chained in a Russian one.

[NewClaret]

Though to add, this refers to e-commerce. Russians use cash a hell of a lot more than we do. Notable, but not anywhere near as economically damaging as it would be in the UK.

Fair enough, maybe more prepared than we would be, but but it does feel like Russia are being pushed back in to the dark ages.

If I were a 20-something Russian, unable to pay by phone/card, blocked from social media, with a Government introducing a 15 year prison sentence for protesting against them… I’d be seriously thinking about living elsewhere. If I could get there!

[JarrowClaret]

The obvious point for Poland to make is that this is a great suggestion aside from the fact that :-

1. We’re already taking in more refugees than we can handle and slowly but surely likely to be drawn into the war politically

2. You’re over there Mr Biden. We’re next door but one. If we provide these planes that makes us next on the list (if we’re not already).

3. Are you going to buy them off us and lend them to Ukraine? Who arms them? How do we get repeat munitions to them?

It drags Poland fair square into it and is NATO flexing its’ muscles by proxy. I can’t see Poland doing that.

Right or wrong Poland is already implicated all the arms shipments are landing there and being driven across the border. Get your point though, it’s a balancing act for be them most definately

[Devils_Advocate]

There's no greater divide between our countries, where we have the freedom to burn effigies of the PM, rally against the Royal family, and yet all you get is a 'move along, please', and Russians can face 15 years for telling the truth.
I said earlier, I have great sympathy for the Russian people, they are just as much victims as the Ukrainians. The difference being many of them don't even recognise they are victims.
Any society, where you can't have freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of self determination, is a cancer that needs removing.

The bill the Tories have brought in can jail protesters for 10 years if they meet the quite vague and subjective guidance that comes with the law

If you think that we are not heading in the same direction as Russia, Belarus & Hungary you need to take a step back and look at what has been happening the last 6 years. Brexit, ERG, Tufton St and Trump are all interlinked and all funded by dirty Russian money.

Anyone on here who supported the above political movements are complicit in where we are today with this war

[Venkys4eva]

The bill the Tories have brought in can jail protesters for 10 years if they meet the quite vague and subjective guidance that comes with the law

If you think that we are not heading in the same direction as Russia, Belarus & Hungary you need to take a step back and look at what has been happening the last 6 years. Brexit, ERG, Tufton St and Trump are all interlinked and all funded by dirty Russian money.

Anyone on here who supported the above political movements are complicit in where we are today with this war

[Colburn_Claret]

The bill the Tories have brought in can jail protesters for 10 years if they meet the quite vague and subjective guidance that comes with the law

If you think that we are not heading in the same direction as Russia, Belarus & Hungary you need to take a step back and look at what has been happening the last 6 years. Brexit, ERG, Tufton St and Trump are all interlinked and all funded by dirty Russian money.

Anyone on here who supported the above political movements are complicit in where we are today with this war

[Devils_Advocate]

This you

"Happy Brexit Day! Big party here with fireworks for the kids. Brilliant day! Thank you Boris and Sir Nigel"

Russia Today citing Farage as an example of the west not blaming Russia

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/14 ... 5909209088

One of many examples of Farage's links to Russia

https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/14 ... 3473184768

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I thought it was up to 10yrs for damaging memorials?

[Spiral]

Maybe it'd be better if the thread were kept to the war/Russia (Russian domestic politics relates to the war so personally I see that as reasonable subject for discussion). While a lot of the stuff in the last few posts above can't be ignored in general, if domestic politics gets brought into this particular thread in too heated or argumentative a way there's the risk someone is going to read something that makes them uncomfortable and they'll report it in an attempt to have it closed. Let's keep it fairly on topic. This thread doesn't need a spat over Farage. This thread is a goldmine for sources you would otherwise have not heard about. It'd be a shame if it got yanked again.

[chekhov]

Leave it out.

[Vegas Claret]

This you

"Happy Brexit Day! Big party here with fireworks for the kids. Brilliant day! Thank you Boris and Sir Nigel"

Russia Today citing Farage as an example of the west not blaming Russia

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/14 ... 5909209088

One of many examples of Farage's links to Russia

https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/14 ... 3473184768

Hey DA, please can we ditch the politics on this particular thread. We've tried our best to keep it open and I for one would appreciate it if you would respect that. Thanks

[Devils_Advocate]

Hey DA, please can we ditch the politics on this particular thread. We've tried our best to keep it open and I for one would appreciate it if you would respect that. Thanks

Nope, Im sorry but if we are going to discuss this war in good faith and with honesty then if something needs challenging I will challenge it.

A week ago when everything was breaking fast this thread was really important and I fully supported ensuring the thread was kept specific to what was happening in the Ukraine and I happily held back on a few things.

Thats not where we are now and now its just a topic that a group of you find fascinating and enjoy sharing info. Dont get me wrong im not gonna try and ruin the thread or not start bickering but if something imo needs saying then I will say it and if that upsets others then thats there fault.

[alboclaret]

Please don't get the threads pulled. I for one don't have twitter or face-book or another way to find out alternative reports information other than the tv. This tread IS still important to some people whatever you think.

[NewClaret]

Please don't get the threads pulled. I for one don't have twitter or face-book or another way to find out alternative reports information other than the tv. This tread IS still important to some people whatever you think.

Likewise & agreed.

[timshorts]

Please don't get the threads pulled. I for one don't have twitter or face-book or another way to find out alternative reports information other than the tv. This tread IS still important to some people whatever you think.

Wholly agree.

I also tend to agree with some of what da was saying and had been comparing some of the Russian "brainwashing" tactics with things that we have seen here - and all too recently, but it would be best to put that sort of stuff onto a different thread.

The info sharing on this thread keeps us much better informed than on the various news channels - and who would have thought that when the thread started?

[gandhisflipflop]

Nope, Im sorry but if we are going to discuss this war in good faith and with honesty then if something needs challenging I will challenge it.

A week ago when everything was breaking fast this thread was really important and I fully supported ensuring the thread was kept specific to what was happening in the Ukraine and I happily held back on a few things.

Thats not where we are now and now its just a topic that a group of you find fascinating and enjoy sharing info. Dont get me wrong im not gonna try and ruin the thread or not start bickering but if something imo needs saying then I will say it and if that upsets others then thats there fault.

Stop being a dick DA. You know that discussing politics will get the thread pulled, so if ‘something needs saying’ then do everyone a favour for the sake of the thread and don’t say it.

[Lowbankclaret]

MasterCard & Visa cease Russian operations. Presumably that causes some big big problems for their economy, particularly with Apple & Android pay withdrawn?

Just to add, as far as I understand from what I read, Visa and MasterCard suspended payments using there platforms inside Russia mid last week for Russian banks. I think this new statement is they are suspending Visa and MasterCard payment systems across the world for a Russian banks.
That will mean the people who have escaped Russia will not be able to use theirs cards for payments. Not sure how far reaching that is, not sure if that means you cannot use an ATM outside of Russia.

[fatboy47]

Toby Elwood currently on TV demanding a more belligerent NATO response...using rhetoric more fitted to a John Wayne cowboy film.

Worrying, as he's chaired the Defence Select Committee.

[NewClaret]

Just to add, as far as I understand from what I read, Visa and MasterCard suspended payments using there platforms inside Russia mid last week for Russian banks. I think this new statement is they are suspending Visa and MasterCard payment systems across the world for a Russian banks.
That will mean the people who have escaped Russia will not be able to use theirs cards for payments. Not sure how far reaching that is, not sure if that means you cannot use an ATM outside of Russia.

Hmmm, that’s an important distinction. Maybe aimed at creating a run on Russian banks as wealthy expats try to move their money??

Either way, I can only imagine this complete economic isolation must be causing Russia some real pain.

[Lowbankclaret]

Some of the stats I have seen quoted that give an insight into what could happen here.
Current wisdom on traditional warfare is you need a ratio of 3-1 to subdue an army your attacking. Currently it’s around 1-1.
To control a country who don’t want to be controlled you need significant numbers to maintain your control.
In Afghanistan Russia had a ratio of 1-9 and lost in the end.
In Ukraine it’s 1-142,

I have seen info that says it will take over a million troops to hold Ukraine as it has circa 44 million people.

[NewClaret]

I have seen info that says it will take over a million troops to hold Ukraine as it has circa 44 million people.

Did have!

Will Putin just be happy to flatten it and go though?

I find the destruction of city’s you presumably intend to occupy quite hard to reconcile.

[NewClaret]

Question on this 64 mile convoy: not heard about any progress, or lack of, recently. While they’re sitting ducks, why don’t the Ukrainians just blow it all up?

Presumably taking out 64 miles of equipment and resources would be a major blow to their operation?

[Lancasterclaret]

Question on this 64 mile convoy: not heard about any progress, or lack of, recently. While they’re sitting ducks, why don’t the Ukrainians just blow it all up?

Presumably taking out 64 miles of equipment and resources would be a major blow to their operation?

They don't have to

That equipment is useless sitting there

It might as well be destroyed

That link further up the thread explains it all

As the author says, its not going to be combat effective now for some time, and I bet the Ukrainians are targeting the rear of the convoy (the only bit that can move) so it can't move

Wheeled transport can't operate off road in Russia in March. It is completely bizarre that the actual Russian army has forgotten that.

[Lancasterclaret]

More on what looks like a potentially decisive (and again, absolutely avoidable) mistake by the Russians

https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/sta ... 4806755332

But again, the historical contexts are striking. In WWII, Stalin ordered his factories to build thousands of tanks, and not many trucks. If it wasn't for the US supplying the short fall through Lend Lease, then its very doubtful Russia would have achieved what it did

How on earth have they allowed themselves to forget that?

*Big hint, ideological denial for eighty years of the essential help given by the West to Russia

[Boss Hogg]

They don’t have air power but you’d think they could flank the convoy and pick them off with anti tank missiles and the soldiers with sniper rifles.

[JarrowClaret]

They don’t have air power but you’d think they could flank the convoy and pick them off with anti tank missiles and the soldiers with sniper rifles.

I suspect they are maybe at the beginning and end if in fact there is anyone in that convoy I only ever see vehicles don’t see people.

Anyway interesting thread translating a supposed FSB whistle blowers account on things.

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1 ... 99937?s=21

[dermotdermot]

Testing

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1500424300486086657

Entire Russian artillery battery destroyed near Mykolaiv

No idea if the guns are still usable, but lined up like that, absolutely sitting ducks to counter battery fire or air attack

What on earth are they playing at?

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/mattia_n/status/1500416973603282945

Fresh anti-Russian (or at least pro-Ukrainian protest) in Kherson oblast

https://twitter.com/mattia_n/status/1500416973603282945

[elwaclaret]

Boris Johnson again being dragged into the spotlight over attitude to Russia, from the Tory press - The Times

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/15002 ... 91844?s=21

[Lancasterclaret]

One of those more realistic maps of Russian advances, rather than just colouring areas that assume they are controlled when they clearly are not

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1500121613144301569

[elwaclaret]

McDonalds burger chain has so far kept their heads down as other Western food chains closed stores in Russia, now the New York Times is calling them out for keeping the McDonalds restaurants open.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1500 ... 79625?s=21

[elwaclaret]

Royal Dutch She’ll - Shell petrol to you and me, have announced any supplies still arriving from Russia to them will see ALL profit donated to the Ukrainian aid programme.

https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/15 ... 05797?s=21

[JarrowClaret]

Not sure if it has already been posted but interesting article I just found about the VKS:

https://twitter.com/justin_br0nk/status ... 00930?s=21

Edit: VKS=Russian Air Force

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.reuters.com/business/financ ... ce=twitter

Russia's credit rating appears to be worse than mine now

[elwaclaret]

Russian army still adopting WW2 tactics to invade Ukraine, military experts look again at the advance.

https://twitter.com/militaryhistori/sta ... 01478?s=21

[elwaclaret]

India preparing for a boom in wheat production…

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1500 ... 17474?s=21