Russia Invades

[NewClaret]

Sky just said it’s €800 million a day the west pays Russia for gas.

As I see it, that damages Russia very badly. Europe needs to just say no & see if he cuts it off. I very much doubt he’d do that or their economy would collapse very quickly.

[Lancasterclaret]

Nope, totally disagree. He’s tried to split NATO prior to this adventure. He failed. He now knows NATO will stand.

He was off his rocker to attack the country with the biggest army and reserve pool in Europe

If he (somehow) wins this, then he's going to see that as a vindication of his decision to attack in the first place, and that isn't a good place for the world to be if he thinks he can beat the odds again

[Lowbankclaret]

Depends on your sample, if in the UK then there's really nothing to fear but fear itself, so little Russian gas can be easily compensated, however in Austria and Germany particularly they'll be in real trouble, many others in Europe will suffer to, including Bulgaria I believe as they're tied to the same feeder pipeline.

As I've said a couple of times, I'm somewhat surprised Ukraine did not do it early days.

Kate,
For a large part of the population perspective is key.

If Ukraine turn off your gas and electric a big part of the population would turn against them.

If Putin does, same effect, but it’s the ones who don’t watch the news that turn.

My missus was talking to her 26 year old daughter yesterday, she had no clue energy prices were going up next week or even there is a war in Ukraine. She does not read papers or watch the news. But she would be straight on Facebook blaming Ukraine if her leky was off.

[Lowbankclaret]

As I see it, that damages Russia very badly. Europe needs to just say no & see if he cuts it off. I very much doubt he’d do that or their economy would collapse very quickly.

As the analyst said on CNN.
This is Putin saying I can carry on without this money in Ukraine.

Can you carry on without my gas.

As I have said.
Who holds the royal flush.

Who has ace high.

I certainly could not call it.

Be an interesting few days.

[NewClaret]

As the analyst said on CNN.
This is Putin saying I can carry on without this money in Ukraine.

Can you carry on without my gas.

As I have said.
Who holds the royal flush.

Who has ace high.

I certainly could not call it.

Be an interesting few days.

Can’t say I’m an expert on Russia’s finances, but my guess is he actually can’t continue in Ukraine (or economically at all) less €0.8bn per day. Assuming that figure is right. So I’d place my money on another massive Putin bluff & misjudgement.

Although pretty sure the EU can’t cope without his gas, either.

[Lancasterclaret]

Can’t say I’m an expert on Russia’s finances, but my guess is he actually can’t continue in Ukraine (or economically at all) less €0.8bn per day. Assuming that figure is right. So I’d place my money on another massive Putin bluff & misjudgement.

Although pretty sure the EU can’t cope without his gas, either.

He's using the money from his oil and gas sales to prop up the Rouble and finance the war in Ukraine

If he loses that money, then he can't do both

[JarrowClaret]

Sorry, but totally disagree about the NATO country part. He knows he can’t do that militarily as he knows full well what our arsenal is capable.

Agreed he is waiting for a NATO preemptive strike so he can justify going Nuclear as conventional Russia will get steam rollered and he knows it in face he admitted as much pre invasion.

[Lowbankclaret]

Thats a lot more planes and helicopters as a % than I thought. Still a very small % of soldiers.

But-injured soldiers are normally 3-1 dead. Even if we use 1-1 that’s 25% of the force he sent in.

[Lowbankclaret]

Can’t say I’m an expert on Russia’s finances, but my guess is he actually can’t continue in Ukraine (or economically at all) less €0.8bn per day. Assuming that figure is right. So I’d place my money on another massive Putin bluff & misjudgement.

Although pretty sure the EU can’t cope without his gas, either.

I have no idea either.

But you would think removing €0.8 billion would cripple Russia quickly.

[JarrowClaret]

He was off his rocker to attack the country with the biggest army and reserve pool in Europe

If he (somehow) wins this, then he's going to see that as a vindication of his decision to attack in the first place, and that isn't a good place for the world to be if he thinks he can beat the odds again

Russias entire standing Army pre invasion was not enough to take the whole of Ukraine. Since then they have proved that not only do they not have the manpower they don’t have the tactics, equipment, logistics or morale to do it either. As you have stated unless it turns into a total disaster they will get to a point which they can claim as a victory and stop there if they are allowed to.

[KateR]

there's a lot of different options to the Oil & Gas from Russia presently, turning it off now is just one of the games, which I don't see happening but it might be from a Russian perspective, I might say, ok turn it off for a couple of days. Let them see what it's really like to live a couple of days without the developed infrastructure if it's not fueled by Russia.

In the grand scheme of things, the 2nd phase of the gas from Russia has been shelved, does anyone expect it to continue when this has been resolved, whether a few days/months or years?

He, Putin, and the energy developers/operators in Russia know full well that what they've been sending daily for a long time, is gradually going to be cut back and back over the next few years, LNG imports now plus renewables development, so his daily income is likely to be 40/30% less than it is now.

How they've developed the energy industry is shockingly bad, there western sales can not be routed to the eastern sales to feed China/Asia, the logistics and costs to do this is astronomical and multi year scope of work if they were to try now. China/India and potentially others will take advantage of lower prices as long as they can, while simultaneously OPEC/US and potentially places like Venezuela will all take advantage of the higher energy prices, everyone (people) loses to an extent.

[Lowbankclaret]

there's a lot of different options to the Oil & Gas from Russia presently, turning it off now is just one of the games, which I don't see happening but it might be from a Russian perspective, I might say, ok turn it off for a couple of days. Let them see what it's really like to live a couple of days without the developed infrastructure if it's not fueled by Russia.

In the grand scheme of things, the 2nd phase of the gas from Russia has been shelved, does anyone expect it to continue when this has been resolved, whether a few days/months or years?

He, Putin, and the energy developers/operators in Russia know full well that what they've been sending daily for a long time, is gradually going to be cut back and back over the next few years, LNG imports now plus renewables development, so his daily income is likely to be 40/30% less than it is now.

How they've developed the energy industry is shockingly bad, there western sales can not be routed to the eastern sales to feed China/Asia, the logistics and costs to do this is astronomical and multi year scope of work if they were to try now. China/India and potentially others will take advantage of lower prices as long as they can, while simultaneously OPEC/US and potentially places like Venezuela will all take advantage of the higher energy prices, everyone (people) loses to an extent.

Added to that Biden has asked oil producers to increase production.
He said one CEO said no, we will just watch the pride and profits go up.
So he has said there are 1000 licenses for production on land that’s not be used to produce.
So he has said he will remove those licenses and give them to someone who will extract the resources.

Let’s see what happens in the good old US now.

[Lowbankclaret]

there's a lot of different options to the Oil & Gas from Russia presently, turning it off now is just one of the games, which I don't see happening but it might be from a Russian perspective, I might say, ok turn it off for a couple of days. Let them see what it's really like to live a couple of days without the developed infrastructure if it's not fueled by Russia.

In the grand scheme of things, the 2nd phase of the gas from Russia has been shelved, does anyone expect it to continue when this has been resolved, whether a few days/months or years?

He, Putin, and the energy developers/operators in Russia know full well that what they've been sending daily for a long time, is gradually going to be cut back and back over the next few years, LNG imports now plus renewables development, so his daily income is likely to be 40/30% less than it is now.

How they've developed the energy industry is shockingly bad, there western sales can not be routed to the eastern sales to feed China/Asia, the logistics and costs to do this is astronomical and multi year scope of work if they were to try now. China/India and potentially others will take advantage of lower prices as long as they can, while simultaneously OPEC/US and potentially places like Venezuela will all take advantage of the higher energy prices, everyone (people) loses to an extent.

Many countries in the west have committed to reduce the amount of oil and gas they use from Russia. Many have plans to do this by up to 80% by the end of the year.

Kinda why Putin has to play this card now, by the end of the year it will not have the impact it will have today.

[Vegas Claret]

They won't cave in

Russia runs out of money long before the West runs out of oil and gas

agree a trillion rubles percent!!

[Colburn_Claret]

This is complete speculation on my part.
Putin surround himself with people he trusts. We think.

I think Putin will believe his own Generals or whatever their titles are, right up until it becomes obvious they are telling porkies.

He will think all other outlets are just western propaganda.

IMHO of course.

Possible, but on the other hand, lying to Putin isn't very bright. He's mad enough when he believes his own propaganda.
IF they are lying to him there are only 2 possible outcomes.
He shoots them for lying, or they shoot him to save themselves. Either way there is no happy ending for someone.

[Lowbankclaret]

Possible, but on the other hand, lying to Putin isn't very bright. He's mad enough when he believes his own propaganda.
IF they are lying to him there are only 2 possible outcomes.
He shoots them for lying, or they shoot him to save themselves. Either way there is no happy ending for someone.

Your not wrong!

[KateR]

Many countries in the west have committed to reduce the amount of oil and gas they use from Russia. Many have plans to do this by up to 80% by the end of the year.

Kinda why Putin has to play this card now, by the end of the year it will not have the impact it will have today.

you'll need to take this with a pinch of salt, all the same countries signed the Paris Accord to reduce GHG's, in over 2 decades not one year has been close to what was agreed, it's not going to happen, just IMO of course, but you need to talk a good game. Politics and and people don't always agree and when it's hurting the wallet and it's coming election time, they sometimes wavers and even alter there goals a little.

Biden also released a large amount of the federal oil reserves to try and contain price rises here in the US, consumers are making noises, we'll see regarding the leases, he can't do an exec order and just change things, others will have a big say before that changes I think.

[KateR]

Norway just approved increased gas production to meet gas demand in Europe.

Eni in partnership with Sonatrach just announced a major oil & gas discovery in Algeria

Shell given an extension for Cambo offshore oil filed in the N Sea, will rethink the project after announcing they were withdrawing a couple of months ago due to SNP&Green alliance objections

ENEC have started commercial operations of Unit 2 5.6 GW Barakah Nuclear Plant in the UAE

That's just a few snippets of the energy news today on top of Biden's release of the federal oil reserves, fossil fuels going to play a huge part in the energy mix over the next couple of decades, transition to renewables and alternative fuels will take quite sometime. I am forecasting that this decade is the tipping point in terms of reducing GHG's and stopping the steady climb that will see major shifts if the trend is not reversed by 2030.

Just don't see any major shift this year, Europe will certainly shift from Russian dependency to the level it is today but mainly through changing out where they source fossil fuels. Designing, approving renewable projects and building them is not possible within a year. Hopefully legislation and red tape will be reduced this year and there will be an accelerated program for the future.

Interesting to see what Putin and/or the EU do in the next week.

Just remember it's April the 1st tomorrow so be extra diligent in your reading/analysis.

[Lowbankclaret]

you'll need to take this with a pinch of salt, all the same countries signed the Paris Accord to reduce GHG's, in over 2 decades not one year has been close to what was agreed, it's not going to happen, just IMO of course, but you need to talk a good game. Politics and and people don't always agree and when it's hurting the wallet and it's coming election time, they sometimes wavers and even alter there goals a little.

Biden also released a large amount of the federal oil reserves to try and contain price rises here in the US, consumers are making noises, we'll see regarding the leases, he can't do an exec order and just change things, others will have a big say before that changes I think.

To be fair, I think this has concentrated minds. We need t be free of Russian hydrocarbons. And we will , just takes time we don’t have.

[NewClaret]

To be fair, I think this has concentrated minds. We need t be free of Russian hydrocarbons. And we will , just takes time we don’t have.

Putin hilariously accelerating Russia’s downfall by decades in the process. And probably the irrelevance of its main industry by expediting the shift to clean/renewable fuels as well.

[KRBFC]

Russias entire standing Army pre invasion was not enough to take the whole of Ukraine. Since then they have proved that not only do they not have the manpower they don’t have the tactics, equipment, logistics or morale to do it either. As you have stated unless it turns into a total disaster they will get to a point which they can claim as a victory and stop there if they are allowed to.

Exactly this, judging by their full force assault on Ukraine, NATO would've wiped them out within a week. After Ukraine and all of the losses, NATO would blow the scraps they have left into pieces within days.

[bfcjg]

Chernobyl back in Ukraine control, Russian soldiers suffering from radiation sickness. If this is how they treat their own forces what the hell hope have occupied Ukrainians got ? No wonder they are fighting like demons.
https://news.upday.com/uk/russians-leav ... m=referral

[Lancasterclaret]

Sorry Lancaster, you’re talking rubbish.

Win, lose or draw, there is zero chance he will go into a NATO country, even after a significant recovery period.

He's military intervened or started bigger and bigger conflicts each time - Chechenya, Georgia, Crimea and now this one

Each time he took a bigger risk, and each time he got away with it

This is his biggest risk, and I would agree that he's not got away with it BUT he can still come out of this with something that he perceives as a win

Now remember this is based on him winning (and him being able to occupy the rest of the Donbass will count as a win to way he looks at things)

He's gambled four times, and won four times ( in his eyes, everything that the West has done since absolutely means its a huge strategic and economic defeat for him, that is very clear)

I think to assume that whatever happens he's not going to do something worse next time is completely ignoring what he's done in the past

But its only my opinion!

[Hipper]

You are quite right

Hostomel report

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/stat ... 0491766789

Map of recaptured villages and towns

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1509581356669763588

I wonder if Hostomel will be usable. I would guess not immediately.

[Hipper]

Thats a lot more planes and helicopters as a % than I thought. Still a very small % of soldiers.

As mentioned, experts say that three times more will be injured and unavailable to fight.

The fact that the Russians are recruiting from Syria and other forces shows they do have a problem with troop numbers:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... ca-ukraine

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/15 ... 5126176808

Video showing two Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters blowing up that fuel depot in Belgorod (which is in Russia proper)

Not sure about this one, but it just emphasises just how far back the Russians have gone from Kharki'v that a couple of helicopters can happily swan over the border and attack without any danger a vital part of Russian infrastructure in actual Russia

Course, there is the danger that this counts as an escalation, but at the same time, the propaganda value of this is hard to underestimate

Ukraine are showing Russia and Russian citizens just what the war actually is and that Russia can't defend itself from these sorts of attacks, and that it is very unwise to remove more forces from that region to send to the Donbass

[Hipper]

there's a lot of different options to the Oil & Gas from Russia presently, turning it off now is just one of the games, which I don't see happening but it might be from a Russian perspective, I might say, ok turn it off for a couple of days. Let them see what it's really like to live a couple of days without the developed infrastructure if it's not fueled by Russia.

In the grand scheme of things, the 2nd phase of the gas from Russia has been shelved, does anyone expect it to continue when this has been resolved, whether a few days/months or years?

He, Putin, and the energy developers/operators in Russia know full well that what they've been sending daily for a long time, is gradually going to be cut back and back over the next few years, LNG imports now plus renewables development, so his daily income is likely to be 40/30% less than it is now.

How they've developed the energy industry is shockingly bad, there western sales can not be routed to the eastern sales to feed China/Asia, the logistics and costs to do this is astronomical and multi year scope of work if they were to try now. China/India and potentially others will take advantage of lower prices as long as they can, while simultaneously OPEC/US and potentially places like Venezuela will all take advantage of the higher energy prices, everyone (people) loses to an extent.

As you say they are not equipped to sell elsewhere and I read are not capable of building the infrastructure to do it without western help.

I heard an interesting thing on a BBC news report yesterday. It was suggested that after Putin made this demand for payment only in Roubles, there was a possible compromise that would save face for both sides. That was that we pay Euros to 'Gazprom Bank, they convert it to Roubles and transfer it to Russia'.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/31/europe- ... emand.html

[bfcjg]

Sorry Lancaster, you’re talking rubbish.

Win, lose or draw, there is zero chance he will go into a NATO country, even after a significant recovery period.

It's in his mindset to do so. He isn't rational, he is delusional about Russia's strength and hopefully his own strength, which hopefully will lead to his downfall from within.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-w ... s-26578175

[Lowbankclaret]

Chernobyl back in Ukraine control, Russian soldiers suffering from radiation sickness. If this is how they treat their own forces what the hell hope have occupied Ukrainians got ? No wonder they are fighting like demons.
https://news.upday.com/uk/russians-leav ... m=referral

I don’t know if you have watched the series or lost tapes of Chernobyl?
But the poor Russian people were told the radiation was not bad and all the people who got ill later or even died were all listed as a different cause of death.
The Russian official death toll from the accident is 31.
The real death toll will never be known.

Soldiers digging a trench in radioactive soil are going to get very ill very quickly. Poor lads.

[Spijed]

I don’t know if you have watched the series or lost tapes of Chernobyl?
But the poor Russian people were told the radiation was not bad and all the people who got ill later or even died were all listed as a different cause of death.
The Russian official death toll from the accident is 31.
The real death toll will never be known.

Soldiers digging a trench in radioactive soil are going to get very ill very quickly. Poor lads.

Until recent events quite a few holiday companies have been running trips to Chernobyl.
https://www.explore.co.uk/destinations/ ... obyl-tours

[Lowbankclaret]

Until recent events quite a few holiday companies have been running trips to Chernobyl.
https://www.explore.co.uk/destinations/ ... obyl-tours

Yes I know, very controlled access and you certainly would not be allowed to go digging in the forests that’s still heavily contaminated.

[Lancasterclaret]

Until recent events quite a few holiday companies have been running trips to Chernobyl.
https://www.explore.co.uk/destinations/ ... obyl-tours

Yes

Difference between visiting in carefully controlled way and fighting there are quite different one would hope!

[Lowbankclaret]

Worth watching.

https://youtu.be/Xw3SFOfbR84

[ClaretCliff]

For some light relief, a bit of Gilbert & Sullivan …

I didn’t write this (but I wish I had):

“I am the very model of a Russian Major General

My standing in the battlefield is growing quite untenable

My forces, though equipped and givenorders unequivocal

Did not expect the fight to be remotely this reciprocal

I used to have a tank brigade but now I have lost several

My fresh assaults are faltering withbattle plans extemporal

I can't recover vehicles but farmers ina tractor can

It's all becoming rather reminiscent of Afghanistan

My ordnance is the best but only half my missiles make it there

I would have thought by now that we would be the controllers of the air

But at the rate the snipers work my time here is ephemeral

I am the very model of a Russian Major General!”

[elwaclaret]

OSINTtechnical - Downed Mi-28 (new tweet images, no details)

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... E3U-zixmFA

[elwaclaret]

PRESIDENT ZELENSKIY - Meeting with French Premier Macron.

https://twitter.com/zelenskyyua/status/ ... E3U-zixmFA

[Elbarad]

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/15 ... 5126176808

Video showing two Ukrainian Mi-24 helicopters blowing up that fuel depot in Belgorod (which is in Russia proper)

Not sure about this one, but it just emphasises just how far back the Russians have gone from Kharki'v that a couple of helicopters can happily swan over the border and attack without any danger a vital part of Russian infrastructure in actual Russia

Course, there is the danger that this counts as an escalation, but at the same time, the propaganda value of this is hard to underestimate

Ukraine are showing Russia and Russian citizens just what the war actually is and that Russia can't defend itself from these sorts of attacks, and that it is very unwise to remove more forces from that region to send to the Donbass

My first inclination is that this is a false flag operation. The first news I read from the Ukrainian side was they had no knowledge of it. If true this would be for internal consumption.

However, if it is in fact a Ukrainian strike, I applaud them. In my opinion they should be chasing the Russians back to Belarus blowing up every vehicle they can. The should cut off roads and take as many captives as possible. And yes, they should further dampen Russian logistics by blowing up rail bridges, fuel and ammo depots inside Russia as well. Not only to make the Russian people have a taste about what's going on, but to stop the Russians from moving all of those men and material to the Donbass.

Russia saying it could hurt negotiations is a laugh, if I'm Ukraine now, the only thing I'm demanding is a total withdraw from the Russians. You're not asking, you're telling.

[Lowbankclaret]

My first inclination is that this is a false flag operation. The first news I read from the Ukrainian side was they had no knowledge of it. If true this would be for internal consumption.

However, if it is in fact a Ukrainian strike, I applaud them. In my opinion they should be chasing the Russians back to Belarus blowing up every vehicle they can. The should cut off roads and take as many captives as possible. And yes, they should further dampen Russian logistics by blowing up rail bridges, fuel and ammo depots inside Russia as well. Not only to make the Russian people have a taste about what's going on, but to stop the Russians from moving all of those men and material to the Donbass.

Russia saying it could hurt negotiations is a laugh, if I'm Ukraine now, the only thing I'm demanding is a total withdraw from the Russians. You're not asking, you're telling.

This is a difficult one, I want to believe they did it, but I think it’s probably a false flag.

I saw an interview with a Ukrainian soldier, he was saying they are trying to encircle Russian troops north of Kyiv. Let’s hope they do.

[Vegas Claret]

I know it's all they have, but those Mil helicopters aren't very agile - no wonder so may have been shot down

[Lancasterclaret]

I know it's all they have, but those Mil helicopters aren't very agile - no wonder so may have been shot down

Still flying too high

In a war where everybody has a MANPAD, then if you are in a helicopter you are flying really, really, really, really, really low

Those that don't get blown out of the sky

[Lancasterclaret]

My first inclination is that this is a false flag operation. The first news I read from the Ukrainian side was they had no knowledge of it. If true this would be for internal consumption.

However, if it is in fact a Ukrainian strike, I applaud them. In my opinion they should be chasing the Russians back to Belarus blowing up every vehicle they can. The should cut off roads and take as many captives as possible. And yes, they should further dampen Russian logistics by blowing up rail bridges, fuel and ammo depots inside Russia as well. Not only to make the Russian people have a taste about what's going on, but to stop the Russians from moving all of those men and material to the Donbass.

Russia saying it could hurt negotiations is a laugh, if I'm Ukraine now, the only thing I'm demanding is a total withdraw from the Russians. You're not asking, you're telling.

Can't see it

Three reasons

1) Its attacking something Russia are really struggling with, a fuel depot at a major railhead for the Kharki'v front

2) Its demonstrating Russian impotence against such attacks

3) Its an attack on Russian soil from an enemy that was supposed to have no air force left

It fits in with the Ukrainian plan of crippling Russian supplies perfectly

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/terischultz/status/ ... 2313405445

Russian troops now in full retreat to North, NW, NE and East of Kyi'v

[Elbarad]

Can't see it

Three reasons

1) Its attacking something Russia are really struggling with, a fuel depot at a major railhead for the Kharki'v front

2) Its demonstrating Russian impotence against such attacks

3) Its an attack on Russian soil from an enemy that was supposed to have no air force left

It fits in with the Ukrainian plan of crippling Russian supplies perfectly

Those are all excellent points and I hope you are right and the Ukrainian ministers are simply playing coy.

[Hipper]

Can't see it

Three reasons

1) Its attacking something Russia are really struggling with, a fuel depot at a major railhead for the Kharki'v front

2) Its demonstrating Russian impotence against such attacks

3) Its an attack on Russian soil from an enemy that was supposed to have no air force left

It fits in with the Ukrainian plan of crippling Russian supplies perfectly

I might add it may well have caught the Russians by surprise too. Is this the first time the Ukrainians have launched such an attack over the border?

I agree with Elbarad that if they have the capability they should do more of this. In particular I would like to suggest they attack that recently built Russian bridge to Crimea.

[Vegas Claret]

Still flying too high

In a war where everybody has a MANPAD, then if you are in a helicopter you are flying really, really, really, really, really low

Those that don't get blown out of the sky

true BUT they aren't an agile attack helicopter. Having seen them fly first hand on numerous occasion they don't turn particularly quickly so even if they were low they are still very susceptible from the ground. Give me an Apache any day of the week !

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status ... 5442746374

Do like the language being used by the Ukrainian defence ministry!

[Lancasterclaret]

I might add it may well have caught the Russians by surprise too. Is this the first time the Ukrainians have launched such an attack over the border?

I agree with Elbarad that if they have the capability they should do more of this. In particular I would like to suggest they attack that recently built Russian bridge to Crimea.

Yeah, but Russia will be guarding things as vital as that bridge with everything they have got

But if they have to defend oil supplies, and warehouses, and transport hubs, just in case, that weakens them all over the front, and Ukraine just have to retain the ability to threaten to do it

[Gibbo]

Certainly retreating North of Kiev, some describing it as a rout, some Russian units cut off
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/sta ... llwC2KQ8pQ

[Lancasterclaret]

true BUT they aren't an agile attack helicopter. Having seen them fly first hand on numerous occasion they don't turn particularly quickly so even if they were low they are still very susceptible from the ground. Give me an Apache any day of the week !

But if they are flying at ground level, and as fast as they can go, then they are lot harder to spot and shoot down

Course, i don't know the capabilities of those choppers, but I agree they look like something that is designed to work in an environment where the enemy don't have a lot of SAMs

But that is the bit I don't understand, with the experience of Afghanistan and Syria, you would have thought that having an attack helicopter that can survive and operate in such an environment would be essential

Another one to chalk up as "questionable Russian military procurement"

Could it be as simple as it looks effective, therefore it must be?

Wouldn't surprise me

[Vegas Claret]

But if they are flying at ground level, and as fast as they can go, then they are lot harder to spot and shoot down

Course, i don't know the capabilities of those choppers, but I agree they look like something that is designed to work in an environment where the enemy don't have a lot of SAMs

But that is the bit I don't understand, with the experience of Afghanistan and Syria, you would have thought that having an attack helicopter that can survive and operate in such an environment would be essential

Another one to chalk up as "questionable Russian military procurement"

Could it be as simple as it looks effective, therefore it must be?

Wouldn't surprise me

they are very effective if you can keep them in the air. I've no idea how many the Russians have lost now but it must be a reasonable number, as you say though, the flying too high is unfathomable !!!