Russia Invades

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:03 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:26 pm
When you see a turret off the tank does it mean a magazine explosion - as happened on WW2 warships?

As per Lowbank’s answer. Turret blown off is a definite explosion of the ammunition, usually caused by the anti tank weapon. It could also be negligence/ ammo failure, but highly unlikely!

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:10 pm

So just to summarise, Russia is coming across as a third world country with rubbish and outdated arms and armour and with absolutely no idea how to conduct a modern war. How can anyone (I mean anyone in the entire world) take them remotely seriously after this??? Sounds massively embarrassing from where I stand, but maybe that's just me.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:14 pm

PS. Sounds like tank warfare is so last year, but nobody bothered to tell Vladimir. Anti tank stuff has rendered them basically useless, but they (Russia) hadn't cottoned on. Well everyone knows now, so if I was in tanks (which I'm not) I'd definitely be getting out!

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:44 pm

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:14 pm
PS. Sounds like tank warfare is so last year, but nobody bothered to tell Vladimir. Anti tank stuff has rendered them basically useless, but they (Russia) hadn't cottoned on. Well everyone knows now, so if I was in tanks (which I'm not) I'd definitely be getting out!

He sent in the tanks because he was expecting to lead a martial parade into Ukraine. They were poorly maintained but the best they had (former owners in the gulag for pocketing maintenance funds. But Russia’s weapon of choice is the missile… and by many accounts they are running out of them). The Russians at face value in several areas look on the point of capitulation.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:48 pm

Kyiv Independent - Russian missile attacks in Myrhorod, fuel depot and local airport

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/sta ... LLwRrz1_Lg

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:49 pm

Desperate people do desperate things, I worry about chemical or tactical nukes. I think the military now know they can't win, they either kill him or still obey him and die either by conventional weapons or we all die with nukes. Hopefully they see sense,think about their family and friends and overthrow the deranged lunatic .

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:54 pm

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:49 pm
Desperate people do desperate things, I worry about chemical or tactical nukes. I think the military now know they can't win, they either kill him or still obey him and die either by conventional weapons or we all die with nukes. Hopefully they see sense,think about their family and friends and overthrow the deranged lunatic .

What is more likely; if GCHQ are correct that the High Ups around Putin are too scared to tell Putin how bad its going; then, they are going to start thinking… this is going to be me or him. Putin has built such a defensive structure around himself, it will have to be one of the inner circle frightened for their own families.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:01 pm

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:14 pm
PS. Sounds like tank warfare is so last year, but nobody bothered to tell Vladimir. Anti tank stuff has rendered them basically useless, but they (Russia) hadn't cottoned on. Well everyone knows now, so if I was in tanks (which I'm not) I'd definitely be getting out!

No it isn’t it is still a key asset in the right situation and with the right tactics the tactics and sometimes the situation was totally wrong in Ukraine.

When you say outdated equipment you are referring to their armour I assume there Anti Tank weaponry is extremely modern and has proved very successful.

The Russians haven’t lost a lot of high value modern tanks etc I don’t remember them being mentioned much if at all. The majority has been older stuff which NLAW and Javelin would be perfect against. We also have to remember the level of int that has been passed to the Ukrainians has been unprecedented and has massively affected how the Russians have been able to perform.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:03 pm

box_of_frogs wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:03 pm
As per Lowbank’s answer. Turret blown off is a definite explosion of the ammunition, usually caused by the anti tank weapon. It could also be negligence/ ammo failure, but highly unlikely!

To save 1 crew member (the shell loader), many Russian tanks have a carousel below the turret to automatically load. If this takes damage and explodes, the crew are done for and the turret will often be torn off ("jack in the box" effect)- explained here https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambl ... d0601d9fc4
This article suggests that the Russian tank crews are well aware of their vulnerability and hence the large number of abandoned tanks - feeling they are safer outside the tank when under attack.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:13 pm

ROB LEE (retweet) - CIA intel gave Ukraine a massive boost against initial Northern thrust against Ukraine

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1510 ... LLwRrz1_Lg

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:33 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:01 pm
No it isn’t it is still a key asset in the right situation and with the right tactics the tactics and sometimes the situation was totally wrong in Ukraine.

When you say outdated equipment you are referring to their armour I assume there Anti Tank weaponry is extremely modern and has proved very successful.

The Russians haven’t lost a lot of high value modern tanks etc I don’t remember them being mentioned much if at all. The majority has been older stuff which NLAW and Javelin would be perfect against. We also have to remember the level of int that has been passed to the Ukrainians has been unprecedented and has massively affected how the Russians have been able to perform.

I am no expert on Russian tanks, but have been watching utube stuff.

They all say the T90 tank is just a T72 with a new badge and a few updates. If that’s true there are pictures of T90 tanks just as dead as the earlier stuff.

You will have to scroll down a bit, there are 17 pics of T90’s.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:47 pm

Utube vid on the T90

https://youtu.be/4Q83AIJCGaQ

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:53 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:33 pm
I am no expert on Russian tanks, but have been watching utube stuff.

They all say the T90 tank is just a T72 with a new badge and a few updates. If that’s true there are pictures of T90 tanks just as dead as the earlier stuff.

You will have to scroll down a bit, there are 17 pics of T90’s.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

Yes but their most modern tank T14 and the latest variants of T90 M/MS aren’t mentioned. Also the latest IFV it is nicknamed the terminator BMPT I think hasn’t been mentioned.

The have lost a lot of stuff 100% but it wasn’t all been modern stuff the majority has been T72s for instance.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:09 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:53 pm
Yes but their most modern tank T14 and the latest variants of T90 M/MS aren’t mentioned. Also the latest IFV it is nicknamed the terminator BMPT I think hasn’t been mentioned.

The have lost a lot of stuff 100% but it wasn’t all been modern stuff the majority has been T72s for instance.

Are they saving the modern stuff then?

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:14 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:09 pm
Are they saving the modern stuff then?

I have no idea but all eyes on the east at a guess. I don’t post many Twitter threads now as I find the rules around it annoying that said here is a good one on why we shouldn’t just provide the Ukrainians what they ask for F16s etc.

https://twitter.com/markhertling/status ... W1Sc2JCmhQ

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:25 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:09 pm
Are they saving the modern stuff then?

Maybe they thought they wouldn’t need it!

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:45 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:09 pm
Are they saving the modern stuff then?

The ‘modern stuff’ either is still in development (ie the Armata / T14) or they don’t have the numbers. Or maybe they’ve realised it’s just not that good? Who knows.

I’m surprised by the lack of BMPT / ‘Terminator’ involvement so far. Fighting in urban areas to support the MBTs was why it was designed. That said, it’s still susceptible to AT weapons.

Their best tank is the T80, but they’re still being taken out. As others have said, the T72/90 variants are just death traps. And their crews know it.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:55 pm

box_of_frogs wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:45 pm
The ‘modern stuff’ either is still in development (ie the Armata / T14) or they don’t have the numbers. Or maybe they’ve realised it’s just not that good? Who knows.

I’m surprised by the lack of BMPT / ‘Terminator’ involvement so far. Fighting in urban areas to support the MBTs was why it was designed. That said, it’s still susceptible to AT weapons.

Their best tank is the T80, but they’re still being taken out. As others have said, the T72/90 variants are just death traps. And their crews know it.

I didn’t realise the T14 was still in development it is an interesting tank I googled it earlier ( not as up on my armour AFV recognition as I once was) it seems the commander and Gunner are in the hull, and not the turret, fully automated loading still, it seems that rather than fixing the issue with the turret they decided to move the people instead.

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:14 pm

Some of the pictures coming out from previously occupied areas are disgusting you just can’t justify the actions of some out there. I shouldn’t be but I am totally shocked.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:50 pm

Jarrow I agree. I am going to post a link to a Ukrainian MP. Do not click if you don’t want to see graphic images. It’s not nice.

https://twitter.com/innasovsun/status/1 ... r6Gd7Ibc7w

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:03 am

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:50 pm
Jarrow I agree. I am going to post a link to a Ukrainian MP. Do not click if you don’t want to see graphic images. It’s not nice.

https://twitter.com/innasovsun/status/1 ... r6Gd7Ibc7w

It really grinds my gears and I have to bite my lip when people have tried to compare Iraq, Afghanistan NIreland etc to what the Russians do and this is the reason. We have to stick our hands up and say we made mistakes and some individuals let there standards slip but 99% of the people that ever deployed somewhere with the British Armed Forces went with only good intentions. This is endemic Murders, Executions, torture, rape and looting the west has to react now it can’t just let this lie! I’m not sure what that means but I can imagine a more physical involvement for some forces out there.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:40 am

Grotesque!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:46 am

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:50 pm
Jarrow I agree. I am going to post a link to a Ukrainian MP. Do not click if you don’t want to see graphic images. It’s not nice.

https://twitter.com/innasovsun/status/1 ... r6Gd7Ibc7w

I browse through those and it almost doesn't register, like it's not real. Then I remember it is real and can't even begin to wrap my head around what I'm looking at

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:58 am

Watching Sky news this morning and they consider the images so bad they don’t think they should show the British public. I think strong warnings prior to them being shown is the correct thing to do, but not shield the public. This is real and horrific. And very very sad.

Comparisons to other conflicts are just not there, I have seen two interviews with poor old ladies. Both said the Nazis didn’t treat us this badly. Apologies I don’t have a link.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:34 am

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:03 am
It really grinds my gears and I have to bite my lip when people have tried to compare Iraq, Afghanistan NIreland etc to what the Russians do and this is the reason. We have to stick our hands up and say we made mistakes and some individuals let there standards slip but 99% of the people that ever deployed somewhere with the British Armed Forces went with only good intentions. This is endemic Murders, Executions, torture, rape and looting the west has to react now it can’t just let this lie! I’m not sure what that means but I can imagine a more physical involvement for some forces out there.

Of course I agree these are horrific, but, do we know the circumstances of their deaths. Were they fighters, even if they didn't have uniforms etc.? Were they simply caught in a crossfire - wrong place wrong time?

JarrowClaret · Post by **JarrowClaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:45 am

Hipper wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:34 am
Of course I agree these are horrific, but, do we know the circumstances of their deaths. Were they fighters, even if they didn't have uniforms etc.? Were they simply caught in a crossfire - wrong place wrong time?

There will be people like that yes 100%, there seems to be a hell of a lot of people with hands tied behind there backs that look like they were executed though.

I have to say that some of the Ukrainian treatment of Russian POWs doesn’t stretch far away from this as well which can’t be ignored or excused but I am lost for words on how the Russians have treated Civilians.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:04 am

Horrific upsetting images. Russians will be distrusted and hated for generations by Ukrainians after this.
Russia must be held to account, anti war Russians really need to be supported and encouraged.
With how well Ukraine have done and are doing armed to the teeth by us I wouldn't be surprised to see more Ukraine attacks inside Russia at strategic targets, as long as they keep it like that fine,but don't lose the moral high ground.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:36 am

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:04 am
Horrific upsetting images. Russians will be distrusted and hated for generations by Ukrainians after this.
Russia must be held to account, anti war Russians really need to be supported and encouraged.
With how well Ukraine have done and are doing armed to the teeth by us I wouldn't be surprised to see more Ukraine attacks inside Russia at strategic targets, as long as they keep it like that fine,but don't lose the moral high ground.

It will be very hard for Ukraine to push Russia out of the south, what they should do is keep attacking legitimate targets in Russia, and try and force the Russians to redeploy to their own country.

I fail to understand how mankind, can lose it's humanity, by putting on a uniform. These barbaric acts, only encourage retaliatory acts. Not right either, but why does nobody have the guts to say, No, that's wrong. The Russians need to be made to pay, long after this conflict is over, until they accept that they were in the wrong, not just for invading Ukraine, but also this slaughter of civilians. Cowardly bastards.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:02 pm

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... n-23545539
An article about the maps drawn up for Russian tank drivers to invade Manchester in the 1970s, during the Cold War.

Elbarad · Post by **Elbarad** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:05 pm

If in fact Russian forces withdraw from the Sumy region why wouldn’t Ukrainian forces follow them across the border? If they held even a sliver of Russian territory that would be something they could trade in talks. Even if they can’t hold it they could blow bridges, rail lines, power poles, etc to slow any future advances. Also, doing it once you’d think it would force the Russians to leave forces on guard for future incursions instead of using them offensively. Also I imagine the pressure ramps up on Putin.

Imagine even considering this a month ago.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:00 pm

anyone else find it interesting that Putin said all bets are off if anyone attacks Russia, yet Ukraine do it and nothing ?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:30 pm

OSINTtechnical - Map of todays Russian positions.

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... JeMOpuCdRw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:32 pm

LAWRENCE FREEDMAN - looking at Russian armour losses

https://twitter.com/lawdavf/status/1510 ... JeMOpuCdRw

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:38 pm

I mean.........https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1 ... f8nPou2dXg

tarkys_ears · Post by **tarkys_ears** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:40 pm

JarrowClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 02, 2022 9:53 pm
Yes but their most modern tank T14 and the latest variants of T90 M/MS aren’t mentioned. Also the latest IFV it is nicknamed the terminator BMPT I think hasn’t been mentioned.

The have lost a lot of stuff 100% but it wasn’t all been modern stuff the majority has been T72s for instance.

I highly suspect thats cos none of their "modern stuff" actually works.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:12 pm

Two Russian soldiers die and 28 are in hospital ‘after being fed poisoned pies by Ukrainian civilians in Izium.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslond ... ar-AAVO5Hu

If true, where does this lead us?

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:27 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:12 pm
Two Russian soldiers die and 28 are in hospital ‘after being fed poisoned pies by Ukrainian civilians in Izium.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslond ... ar-AAVO5Hu

If true, where does this lead us?

That’s the reason logistics are so important, to keep your troops fed.

Being in a country your not wanted and committing the things they are, it’s no surprise some one has done this.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:32 pm

Oryx are saying that confirmed tanks losses are now over 400 and the backlog of video etc they say the real total is 450.
One person Twitter says my estimate of 1700 is way to high and the actual amount of committed tankers is 1200 with 750 in reserve.
Based on estimates Russian has probably lost 50% of committed tanks already.

That’s like WOW. if true.

Gaia · Post by **Gaia** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:22 pm

Video footage showing smiling Russian soldiers sending looted items from #Ukraine back to their homes.

https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status ... Z3RzQ&s=19

Gaia · Post by **Gaia** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:25 pm

https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/stat ... 79kEQ&s=19

Russians against Putin are waving a new flag without the red stripe to symbolize the removal of blood from the flag. This is a trend Putin won't want going viral in Russia. https://t.co/c3jw6A3vYu

jos · Post by **jos** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:26 pm

Hipper wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:46 pm
It's a crime too though isn't it.

If civilians take it upon themselves to kill enemy soldiers then they themselves become legitimate military targets.

There is a plea on twitter for civilians to keep poisoned food/alcohol in their fridge for when the invaders ‘steal’ it.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:52 pm

https://twitter.com/klitschko/status/15 ... a7eIfOfiJg

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:53 pm

Gaia wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:22 pm
Video footage showing smiling Russian soldiers sending looted items from #Ukraine back to their homes.

https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status ... Z3RzQ&s=19

Some of the looting not paying off. According to this, 2 dead, 28 injured after Ukrainians gave Russian soldiers some poisoned baked treats! Another 500 severely I’ll with alcohol poisoning.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -buns.html

Suspect this is a pretty good tactic in locations devoid of food & soldiers will always be tempted by alcohol even if they are aware of the dangers.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:37 pm

ROB LEE - Belarus (Ukraine) Volunteers take out another Russian convoy.

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1510 ... D837OEIOuw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:40 pm

Kyiv Independent - President Zelenskiy says the concentrated evil that has invaded their land deserve to die there.

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/sta ... D837OEIOuw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:42 pm

Todays statement from PM Johnson about Ukraine

https://twitter.com/10downingstreet/sta ... D837OEIOuw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:35 pm

Kyiv Independent reporting 43 Russian military vehicles destroyed today (April 3)

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/sta ... D837OEIOuw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:43 pm

Phillips OBrien - Where we are with todays losses

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... D837OEIOuw

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:46 pm

Phillips OBrien adding that new kills will include armour previously hit but only now in re-captured areas. But still completely unsustainable losses.

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... Q9N6cxT2-Q

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:48 pm

BBC World Service - Widespread condemnation for Bucha killings

https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1510 ... Q9N6cxT2-Q