England vs Hungary

[Quicknick]

Blimey! Just seen the result. 1953 all over again. Still, 13 years after those two debacles we won the World Cup.

[Vegas Claret]

I remain to be convinced that he is the man to get a full tune out of what we have available. He is though a decent bloke - I’d love for him to be successful.

exactly my thoughts, i like the bloke and think he's a thoroughly decent bloke and an excellent representative for our country but I'm also not convinced he can get them playing at a higher level. I think this World Cup is his last dance anyway tbh.

[gtclaret]

It is said that its better to be lucky than good. Southgate has been very lucky, both in the players available to him and the quality of the opposition he faced in the 2 major competitions he has been involved in. He should have quit whilst he was ahead after the Euros. We all know that he's lacking, but his record as an England manager would have stood up against the best. His luck hasn't completely run out yet. Just look at the World Cup draw. He is almost assured of a quarter final place, and if his luck continues just a bit more, some unrated nation will have scrambled their way to that stage giving England a semi final place. He can then quit a hero with 2 semis and a final to his name

[claretonthecoast1882]

Those mad enough to watch it will now fully understand how it feels to be a jock

[Lancasterclaret]

Its a meaningless end of season friendly, played with knackered players and zero interest from the team

Southgate is guilty of sticking with players who desperately need a break, and players goalkeepers who can kick it rather than save it, but his track record when it counts is (going from memory) the 2nd best of any England manager

Deserves the chance to take us to the world cup at the very least

[Zlatan]

German players didn’t need a break

[Top Claret]

The England defence as always been a grey area under Southgate now with the goals drying up we really do have problems. Southgate comes over as dull as dish water and does not have the personality or the ability to be the manager of a top international football nation like England, he proved that in the Euros final when the Italians did us tactically

He only holds his position because he is PC and doesn't carry skeletons

[Lancasterclaret]

The England defence as always been a grey area under Southgate now with the goals drying up we really do have problems. Southgate comes over as dull as dish water and does not have the personality or the ability to be the manager of a top international football nation like England, he proved that in the Euros final when the Italians did us tactically

He only holds his position because he is PC and doesn't carry skeletons

JFW

[Top Claret]

JFW

Enlighten me

[Lancasterclaret]

Enlighten me

1st paragraph fine, though I think you are over egging it a bit

Last line though?

He's a bad football manager because he's PC?

Come off it eh?

[Top Claret]

1st paragraph fine, though I think you are over egging it a bit

Last line though?

He's a bad football manager because he's PC?

Come off it eh?

I never said he was a bad football manager because he was PC. I am saying he is PC and this is what his bosses like, a yes man that won't step out of line

[bumba]

England have a look of Burnley at the end of Dyche's era, comfort zone, not running as much, lack of effort, gone stale.
Sorry but Southgate isn't the man to win us a world cup.
To negative, to predictable, has to many favourites, picks players for fun.
As great as the last world cup and euros were compared to ones before those he was very very lucky to get as far as he did with the routes we had. On the big day he got both tournaments badly wrong. Let's not forget we lost three games at that World Cup

[Shaggy]

Enlighten me

It’s because you dared to mention that Southgate was PC.

But you are correct he ticks the boxes so to speak for the FA.

[chekhov]

England have a look of Burnley at the end of Dyche's era, comfort zone, not running as much, lack of effort, gone stale.
Sorry but Southgate isn't the man to win us a world cup.
To negative, to predictable, has to many favourites, picks players for fun.
As great as the last world cup and euros were compared to ones before those he was very very lucky to get as far as he did with the routes we had. On the big day he got both tournaments badly wrong. Let's not forget we lost three games at that World Cup

Too.

[Awayfromburnley]

I never said he was a bad football manager because he was PC. I am saying he is PC and this is what his bosses like, a yes man that won't step out of line

It is called being professional. I cannot understand why that is deemed a bad thing.

Would I like someone with a bit more passion and a bit edgier? Maybe, but that won't necessarily make a good leader.

[martin_p]

The England defence as always been a grey area under Southgate now with the goals drying up we really do have problems. Southgate comes over as dull as dish water and does not have the personality or the ability to be the manager of a top international football nation like England, he proved that in the Euros final when the Italians did us tactically

He only holds his position because he is PC and doesn't carry skeletons

Yes, holding onto his job because he’s PC. Nothing to do with having the best tournament record for over 50 years.

[martin_p]

England have a look of Burnley at the end of Dyche's era, comfort zone, not running as much, lack of effort, gone stale.
Sorry but Southgate isn't the man to win us a world cup.
To negative, to predictable, has to many favourites, picks players for fun.
As great as the last world cup and euros were compared to ones before those he was very very lucky to get as far as he did with the routes we had. On the big day he got both tournaments badly wrong. Let's not forget we lost three games at that World Cup

So who is the man to win us a World Cup?

[The Hung Juror]

Not sure what was worse, the England performance or the C4 presentation.

[fatboy47]

Its a meaningless end of season friendly, played with knackered players and zero interest from the team

If England had played well and won these games, the media and Southgate apologists would, like last time, be w*nking themselves into a frenzy about the importance of the competition and the wonderful crop of emerging talent on display.

Southgate's a compliant suit and a bland insipid "yes man" who hasn't the balls to pick his best team for fear of conflict with the stronger characters around.

He couldn't lace Dyche's boots.

[Lancasterclaret]

If England had played well and won these games, the media and Southgate apologists would, like last time, be w*nking themselves into a frenzy about the importance of the competition and the wonderful crop of emerging talent on display.

Southgate's a compliant suit and a bland insipid "yes man" who hasn't the balls to pick his best team for fear of conflict with the stronger characters around.

He couldn't lace Dyche's boots.

Whats his best team?

Looks to me like he's playing it, there certainly isn't anyone who isn't in the squad who has been left out from what I can see

Why do you think he's a compliant suit and a "yes man" btw?

[Jamesy]

Yes, holding onto his job because he’s PC. Nothing to do with having the best tournament record for over 50 years.

Yes I recall him stating that he had the best tournament record for 50 years last night.

What you are perhaps overlooking is that he has consistently had easy qualifying groups and then easy group stages in the tournaments. I would say he has been a lucky manager in terms of World Cup/Euro Draws.

We would have won that Euro final if we had a more dynamic manager instead of Southgate’s safety first approach. Last night when one nil down he switches to 5 at the back for the second half. Then at the end of the match he was claiming that he had to play this seriously weakened team to preserve his “better” players. This seriously weakened team of Premier League stars all earning considerably more money than the Hungarians.

He does fit the stiff suits requirements of an England manager, however he was a failed club manager who walked into the best part time job in football. Furthermore, he has probably got the best crop of young exciting talent for many a year at his disposal yet they will never win anything whilst he is in charge.

[martin_p]

If England had played well and won these games, the media and Southgate apologists would, like last time, be w*nking themselves into a frenzy about the importance of the competition and the wonderful crop of emerging talent on display.

Southgate's a compliant suit and a bland insipid "yes man" who hasn't the balls to pick his best team for fear of conflict with the stronger characters around.

He couldn't lace Dyche's boots.

Who’s he saying ‘yes’ to?

[Lancasterclaret]

Every five years its the "best crop of talents ever" and we never did anything, until Southgate came along

Must be lucky then eh?

[Tinribs]

Pep and Klopp are by far the 2 best coaches/managers on the planet right now, I think they'd make us more attractive to watch within the huge constraints that is boring international football. Do I think results would improve? No. I don't see this group as tournament winners, there's better sides out there with better players.

People wanted form players picked, well here it is. Bowen, Gallagher, Guehi, Ward Prowse, Rice, Kane, James, Abraham and many more all had their chance.

You can have the best ingredients in the world but if you don’t know how to turn the oven on you are F£&£@d

[quoonbeatz]

Southgate is an excellent manager. He's just not an excellent football manager.

I only watched highlights but it looked like a dyche cup performance. There is zero interest from the players in playing these games so I don't see why we're bothering. Can't even be worth it for the money surely? The players and manager aren't getting anything out of it, apart from a hilarious tonking.

Best chance to win anything came and went with a home tournament and a ridiculously favourable draw last year.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

To those saying these are meaningless friendlies may I point you towards the fact that relegation impacts on your progression in future major tournaments

[Rowls]

Last night's result is the equivalent of Barnsley going to the Etihad and thrashing Man City 4-0.

That's a realistic comparitive level of player ability here. Southgate out.

[quoonbeatz]

To those saying these are meaningless friendlies may I point you towards the fact that relegation impacts on your progression in future major tournaments

It won't really though, will it. The stronger nations will still get to the major finals through proper qualifying.

[claret2018]

Southgate has us (largely) playing good football and winning games we would have easily lost previously when it comes to tournaments. Easily the best man for the job at the moment.

Who would replace him? There’s only Dyche I can think of at the moment, can you imagine how horrific that would be?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Players like Saka, Rashford, Phillips, Mings, Codey and Ramsdale are not good enough. Saka may be one day. But the weakness in GS is how often he chooses the wrong players or wrong decisions. We have a golden era, wasted. Bringing Rashford on with seconds to go to take a penalty that he missed, that was totally crazy, but choosing Saka who had never even taken one, even crazier.

Let’s remember this is the guy who left out Foden and Grealish for the semi against Denmark that we only scraped through. Foden is the standout player in our squad, the one closest to world class. He was injured for the final but would have been benched there too. GS makes Dyche look attacking.

So I’m not having it that this is a end of season blip. The guy is not close to good enough, got lucky with favourable run-ins, but would I have him at Burnley ahead of the inexperienced Kompany - no.

[tiger76]

Southgate is an excellent manager. He's just not an excellent football manager.

I only watched highlights but it looked like a dyche cup performance. There is zero interest from the players in playing these games so I don't see why we're bothering. Can't even be worth it for the money surely? The players and manager aren't getting anything out of it, apart from a hilarious tonking.

Best chance to win anything came and went with a home tournament and a ridiculously favourable draw last year.

That's my take on it as well, a golden opportunity spurned last summer, with effectively a home tournament (England played all their games bar one at Wembley) and that was the QF against a Ukraine side who'd played ET against Sweden only a couple of days prior.

My worry is England aren't progressing under Southgate, in fact if anything we're regressing, and it not just these last 4 fixtures where the warning signs are flashing, England's form since the Euro's final has been patchy at best.

I'm confused why GS and England aren't taking the NL seriously, apart from it being a viable competition we could win, it's also one of the few chances Southgate will have to get his best XI gelling ahead of Qatar, which is now only 5 months away.

Sadly after a promising start to his reign GS is now being rapidly shown up for what he is a bang average manager.

4 games against decent opposition, and England have conjured 1 goal from a penalty, and created little in open play.

And if you fully assess Southgate's tenure he's failed when faced with the key games, Croatia WC 2018, Netherlands NL 2019, Italy Euro 2020.

Yes he's reached a semi final and a final, but those stats flatter him to say the least when you dig deeper.

[tarkys_ears]

He had the world cup run on a plate.

He had the Euros on a plate.

England went 1-0 up in the final... so what did he do? Did a dyche and sat back trying to defend for 90 mins. We all know how well that usually works!

He's a clown, a muppet and way out of his depth.

[martin_p]

He had the world cup run on a plate.

He had the Euros on a plate.

England went 1-0 up in the final... so what did he do? Did a dyche and sat back trying to defend for 90 mins. We all know how well that usually works!

He's a clown, a muppet and way out of his depth.

Shame he didn’t have the tactical nouse and experience of all the other England managers that have taken us to a Euro final.

[Andreshotboots]

Obviously won’t happen, but I’d love to see what Pep or even Klopp could do with this England team..

[martin_p]

Obviously won’t happen, but I’d love to see what Pep or even Klopp could do with this England team..

Without the ability to go out and spend millions on new players to shape the team exactly how they want them probably not much.

[bumba]

So who is the man to win us a World Cup?

Eddie Howe would do a better job with this lot, Dyche would even do a better job.
If you honestly believe Gareth Southgate is the best manager England can attract then we're in serious trouble, he's not good enough.

[KRBFC]

The England defence as always been a grey area under Southgate now with the goals drying up we really do have problems.

Seriously what are you saying? The defensive record in the Euros was sublime

[bumba]

Too.

Why comment at all if it's just to correct to and too!?

Glad you did I'll sleep better tonight knowing your the grammar king

[KRBFC]

It is said that its better to be lucky than good. Southgate has been very lucky, both in the players available to him and the quality of the opposition he faced in the 2 major competitions he has been involved in.

I like this narrative, we only played shite teams in the Euros right. So where were the good teams?

Denmark
Germany
Ukraine
Croatia
Italy
Czech Rep (they knocked out Holland btw)

We didn't lose a single game in 90 or 120 minutes, won 5 of those ties.

[Quickenthetempo]

Without the ability to go out and spend millions on new players to shape the team exactly how they want them probably not much.

Klopp would be great as England boss, far more than the fraud that is Southgate.

Because he would get the players to believe in themselves being better than the other team.

Just take a look at the England cricket team yesterday and their approach.

[taio]

Klopp would be great as England boss, far more than the fraud that is Southgate.

Because he would get the players to believe in themselves being better than the other team.

Just take a look at the England cricket team yesterday and their approach.

Of course he would. But i don't believe for a moment he'd take it.

[martin_p]

Klopp would be great as England boss, far more than the fraud that is Southgate.

Because he would get the players to believe in themselves being better than the other team.

Just take a look at the England cricket team yesterday and their approach.

Is this the same Klopp whose team got to three cup finals this year and didn’t score a goal in any of them? Lost in the Champions League final against a worse team on paper? Has the best Liverpool team for a generation but has only won the league once?

Belief only gets you so far.

[Top Claret]

Seriously what are you saying? The defensive record in the Euros was sublime

Sublime when we are up against shite but once we face stiff opposition at the closing stages we crumble

[tiger76]

I like this narrative, we only played shite teams in the Euros right. So where were the good teams?

Denmark
Germany
Ukraine
Croatia
Italy
Czech Rep (they knocked out Holland btw)

We didn't lose a single game in 90 or 120 minutes, won 5 of those ties.

Denmark we won with a debatable ET penalty, and arguably the Danes were the better team on the night.
Germany aren't the force they once were, and even in that game if Muller buries that chance 10 minutes from time they could well have gone on to win.
Ukraine decent side, but as already mentioned they were coming off the back of a draining ET match with Sweden, and were mentally and physically drained by a lot of travelling.
Croatia efficient performance and victory I'll grant you even if it wasn't very exciting.
Italy are an emerging side, but worth pointing out that either side of their Euro triumph they've failed to reach 2 World Cups.
Czech Republic similar to Croatia a decent side, but hardly world beaters are they.

And it was a home tournament pretty much, so you'd expect any half decent European nation to go deep, the last time England hosted the Euro's England made the last 4, so GS has slightly improved on that, but ultimately when it counted he came up short, and blew England's best chance of winning a major tournament for decades.

Now if you still think he's the man for the job than fine, but England won't win the WC under him, and I even now harbour doubts about our Euro 2026 prospects I'm afraid.

[taio]

Is this the same Klopp whose team got to three cup finals this year and didn’t score a goal in any of them? Lost in the Champions League final against a worse team on paper? Has the best Liverpool team for a generation but has only won the league once?

Belief only gets you so far.

You're not suggesting Klopp isn't a better manager than Southgate are you? He is by a country mile.

[tiger76]

Sublime when we are up against shite but once we face stiff opposition at the closing stages we crumble

Exactly 1 up against Croatia 2018 didn't win.
1 up against Holland 2019 didn't win.
1 up against Italy 2021 didn't win,

Does anybody see a pattern forming under Southgate, England can't hack it when the going gets tough late in tournaments, 3 times in winning positions, and 3 times blew it.

[KRBFC]

Denmark we won with a debatable ET penalty, and arguably the Danes were the better team on the night.
Germany aren't the force they once were, and even in that game if Muller buries that chance 10 minutes from time they could well have gone on to win.
Ukraine decent side, but as already mentioned they were coming off the back of a draining ET match with Sweden, and were mentally and physically drained by a lot of travelling.
Croatia efficient performance and victory I'll grant you even if it wasn't very exciting.
Italy are an emerging side, but worth pointing out that either side of their Euro triumph they've failed to reach 2 World Cups.
Czech Republic similar to Croatia a decent side, but hardly world beaters are they.

And it was a home tournament pretty much, so you'd expect any half decent European nation to go deep, the last time England hosted the Euro's England made the last 4, so GS has slightly improved on that, but ultimately when it counted he came up short, and blew England's best chance of winning a major tournament for decades.

Now if you still think he's the man for the job than fine, but England won't win the WC under him, and I even now harbour doubts about our Euro 2026 prospects I'm afraid.

Now you're making excuses and downplaying the opponents England faced lol. I hate to break it to you, England wont win the WC with anyone.

[KRBFC]

Exactly 1 up against Croatia 2018 didn't win.
1 up against Holland 2019 didn't win.
1 up against Italy 2021 didn't win,

Does anybody see a pattern forming under Southgate, England can't hack it when the going gets tough late in tournaments, 3 times in winning positions, and 3 times blew it.

At least we're in semi finals and finals of tournaments...

[martin_p]

You're not suggesting Klopp isn't a better manager than Southgate are you? He is by a country mile.

He’s a better club manager without a doubt, but international manager is a very different skill set. You only have a set pool of players, you only get to train with them a few weeks a season and I suspect you spend the intervening periods with nothing much to do other than attend matches to watch two or three potential players at once. I think Klopp might struggle in that environment. If you look at history’s greatest club managers not many of them had massive success at international level (if they even gave it a go).

[Lancasterclaret]

I think Klopp is one of the best managers in the world and he'd be great as England manager

Christ, I'd sack Southgate right now if we could replace him with Klopp

But there isn't anyone in that class available internationally is there?