Transfer Rumours Thread - NO FINANCIAL DISCUSSION

[Wokingclaret]

Was expecting another sale or two after Pope went for a bargain. As others have said was expecting Collins to go after that goal.

Let's hope we can now use the dosh to get a striker and maybe a winger in

[Spijed]

Can people stop adding Tarks and Mee to our transfer outgoings as a negative please?

They were out of contract, we got nothing for them, and got their wages off the wage bill

Pope and Collins for £30-40m plus add ons and sell on fees is a lot fairer way of looking at it

Only Collins will have any worthwhile add-ons. If Newcastle transfer Pope in future it'll be for a lot less than £10 million, so any money we receive will be chicken feed.

[Lancasterclaret]

Only Collins will have any worthwhile add-ons. If Newcastle transfer Pope in future it'll be for a lot less than £10 million, so any money we receive will be chicken feed.

I'm sorry, but that isn't true

He's a keeper, and he's only just turned 30

He's at his peak now and will be for a fair few more years yet

And anyway, in his case I suspect its the add on fees that might get us a lot more cash as Newcastle should be a lot better and a lot further up the league from now on

[KRBFC]

If we sell Cornet and Collins for £40-45m, providing a certain level of player is brought in, I'll be fine with it. Certainly too early to judge anything atm, impossible to predict how we'll fare in the league too. I'm excited for the football to start though, I'd be more excited if those two were replaced with O'Hare, Piroe and Muric though!

[Mattster]

It's hard not to get carried away during this window, in both directions. The only way to judge it will be as a whole at the end of it.

Maybe we need the cash in hand now in order to fill gaps across the squad. Maybe we expected Cornet would already have gone but that doesn't look imminent so have had to accelerate Collins' departure. If we held out until later in the window maybe we'd have been able to push them up to £30m+ but that could be too late for us to get the players in that we want. What's better, a rounded squad having sold Collins for £20m (assuming that's 10p% accurate) or £30m in the bank but a squad with a couple of glaring holes that can't be plugged until the halfway point of the season?

If the squad still has issues when the window closes then that's the time to criticise the sales. Until then judgement is premature either way.

[RVclaret]

It's hard not to get carried away during this window, in both directions. The only way to judge it will be as a whole at the end of it.

Maybe we need the cash in hand now in order to fill gaps across the squad. Maybe we expected Cornet would already have gone but that doesn't look imminent so have had to accelerate Collins' departure. If we held out until later in the window maybe we'd have been able to push them up to £30m+ but that could be too late for us to get the players in that we want. What's better, a rounded squad having sold Collins for £20m (assuming that's 10p% accurate) or £30m in the bank but a squad with a couple of glaring holes that can't be plugged until the halfway point of the season?

If the squad still has issues when the window closes then that's the time to criticise the sales. Until then judgement is premature either way.

Great post and pretty much my exact thoughts.

[BurnleyFC]

If Collins is the one wanting this move then I’m disappointed in him, but not exactly surprised.

[Jambo]

Haven't read all the posts on Collins but Mattster makes a fair point on the timing. What we do with the money will colour how good/bad a deal it is. Personally I think it's shocking to sell for only £20m - he will be worth Ben White money in 1-2 years - but if we go out and spend half of that on a top striker I'll probably get over it. Unfortunately sales were always inevitable but it does feel like we've had our pants pulled down a bit with Collins/Pope.

[jojomk1]

Missed out on Hendrick again
Jeff just gone to Reading

[boatshed bill]

Replace them with adequate experience and quality. If you're selling Collins for £30m, we've replaced him with a loan, a freebie kid and a young kid from League One for £1.75m. I don't mind the signings, there has to be some of these funds reinvested on proper ready to go quality though and those players will cost more than £2-3m.

This is not correct though as we brought those players in before the probable sale of Collins.

[KRBFC]

This is not correct though as we brought those players in before the probable sale of Collins.

So you expect us to sign another central defender, a more proven ready to go one? I assume those 3 CBs were signed to replace Collins.

[jojomk1]

If Collins is the one wanting this move then I’m disappointed in him, but not exactly surprised.

Of course he is going to want this or any Premier League club move - it's called ambition (or lining your pockets )

Seriously, take the gift of going back to the Premier League or risk all with an unknown ability Championship squad

[summitclaret]

Missed out on Hendrick again
Jeff just gone to Reading

Good

[warksclaret]

If we suddenly start looking for a new CH, it shows the Collins sale was not necessarily a formality. Looking at who we have left its down to just the three we have just bought. I dont think Long will suit VK's style of play, however dependable, and Thomas will make a good fourth choice CH. If we plan playing 3 at the back at times then we are short in this area.Lets not forget we will have lost 3 great CH's

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

If we suddenly start looking for a new CH, it shows the Collins sale was not necessarily a formality. Looking at who we have left its down to just the three we have just bought. I dont think Long will suit VK's style of play, however dependable, and Thomas will make a good fourth choice CH. If we plan playing 3 at the back at times then we are short in this area.Lets not forget we will have lost 3 great CH's

I don't think Collins has taken part in any of preseason. That means the club knew he was going, and it means the 3 CB's we have signed include the replacement for Collins.

I think we're planning on going with what we have at the back.

[RVclaret]

I don't think Collins has taken part in any of preseason. That means the club knew he was going, and it means the 3 CB's we have signed include the replacement for Collins.

I think we're planning on going with what we have at the back.

Id agree with this. Said when we completed all 3 that I thought it meant Collins was off.

[Rileybobs]

I think some people are over-valuing Collins. He’s got potential, but what has he done to suggest he’s worth more than £20-£25m - considering he was signed for £12m less than 20 appearances ago.

And comparisons with other players just don’t really make sense. For example, maybe Ben White is just a better player than Collins, and his transfer fee is reflective of that.

[dsr]

I think some people are over-valuing Collins. He’s got potential, but what has he done to suggest he’s worth more than £20-£25m - considering he was signed for £12m less than 20 appearances ago.

And comparisons with other players just don’t really make sense. For example, maybe Ben White is just a better player than Collins, and his transfer fee is reflective of that.

What's he done? He's proved he can look like a very good player in the PL. This time last season, he hadn't done that. He's also had some very good international appearances.

As for the comparison with White, it's just an example of what a player with a similar level of experience can be sold for. It was a reply to a post suggesting that any more than £20m for a man of his experience would be unprecendented.

[boyyanno]

Losing Collins is a huge blow, ignoring the fee (which I think is low) it means we have lost Tarks, Mee, Pope and Collins. That leaves us with 3 very young kids at the back and if the reports on Muric are true it will be the same in the net.

I'll put myself out on a limb and say if we don't sign some older more established players soon we are going to ship a hell of a lot of goals next year.

[Rileybobs]

What's he done? He's proved he can look like a very good player in the PL. This time last season, he hadn't done that. He's also had some very good international appearances.

As for the comparison with White, it's just an example of what a player with a similar level of experience can be sold for. It was a reply to a post suggesting that any more than £20m for a man of his experience would be unprecendented.

With respect, he hasn’t looked like a very good player. He’s held his own and probably fitted into the team better than expected. But he was probably the third best centre half in a side that was relegated from the PL. That’s not to say that he won’t go on to better things, but a profit of £9m from just 19 appearances certainly isn’t to be sniffed at. I just don’t get how people think he is worth significantly more than £21m.

The Ben White example wasn’t aimed at you, dsr - it was just the most recent player comparison I’d read. I just see these examples of ‘player x sold for £x so why isn’t player y sold for £x?’ All players are different, some are better than others. This, along with a multitude of other factors such as age and experience determine a valuation.

[Milltown1882]

Fabrizio Romano confirms it’s done. Rats leaving the sinking ship. On to the next one.

[gawthorpe_view]

Collins and Cullen in the same team would cause far too much confusion for some on this board.

It was quite clear that Collins had to go.

I'd have preferred Colin and Cullens personally.

[Steddyman]

Why have the last two pages all been financial discussion on the value of Collins then the thread title is NO FINANCIAL DISCUSSION

It doesn't matter, what you or I thinks the true value of Collins is, it only matters what the club value him at.

Move onto rumours please.

[Quickenthetempo]

I think some people are over-valuing Collins. He’s got potential, but what has he done to suggest he’s worth more than £20-£25m - considering he was signed for £12m less than 20 appearances ago.

And comparisons with other players just don’t really make sense. For example, maybe Ben White is just a better player than Collins, and his transfer fee is reflective of that.

Have you forgotten his performances away at Man City and Spurs?

[Rileybobs]

Why have the last two pages all been financial discussion on the value of Collins then the thread title is NO FINANCIAL DISCUSSION

It doesn't matter, what you or I thinks the true value of Collins is, it only matters what the club value him at.

Move onto rumours please.

When there are rumours they are discussed. When there aren’t rumours other things are discussed. What’s the problem?

[Rileybobs]

Have you forgotten his performances away at Man City and Spurs?

Not at all. Have you forgotten his performance at home to Newcastle?

[Quickenthetempo]

Not at all. Have you forgotten his performance at home to Newcastle?

No, he had one mistake. Just like Tarky with his stupid marking for the 2nd goal.

But for a player so young to look so comfortable against such good opposition is rare, especially in a CB.

[RVclaret]

Why have the last two pages all been financial discussion on the value of Collins then the thread title is NO FINANCIAL DISCUSSION

It doesn't matter, what you or I thinks the true value of Collins is, it only matters what the club value him at.

Move onto rumours please.

What rumour would you like to discuss?

[claretbob]

I thought the objection was to constantly banging on about the club’s financial situation rather than querying the sum received for any particular sale. Cullen in for £2.5m and Collins out for 8 times the amount looks like exactly the sort of business we should be doing. Now let’s see who else we can buy with the money.

[Rileybobs]

No, he had one mistake. Just like Tarky with his stupid marking for the 2nd goal.

But for a player so young to look so comfortable against such good opposition is rare, especially in a CB.

Equally, for a defender worth more than £20m to make that ridiculous error against Newcastle in such an important game is equally rare.

Collins is a good player, but on the evidence to hand I would say £20m is a good price. Not that I’d rather the club have £20m than Collins, just in the context of what we paid for him and how recently we paid it.

Edit - he made another error leading to a red card against Brentford, so it wasn’t just one mistake.

[Rileybobs]

By the way, asking for transfer rumours without financial discussion is silly and unrealistic.

[Zlatan]

Collins can go for me… it’s not like we had a song for him or anything

[Oldparkwood]

By the way, asking for transfer rumours without financial discussion is silly and unrealistic.

In your opinion

[fidelcastro]

No, he had one mistake. Just like Tarky with his stupid marking for the 2nd goal.

But for a player so young to look so comfortable against such good opposition is rare, especially in a CB.

It was a very big mistake though. A needless handball which we never recovered from and ended up losing the game, as well as our PL status.

Collins still has massive potential, but he's far from the finished article, and the price rumoured sounds about right to me.

If we end up getting more, that's a bonus!

[TsarBomba]

We don’t know the payment plan for this £20.5M. It may be we’ve settled for that because we demanded more up front. Same with Nick Pope.

Relegation generally results in losing your better players.

Our incomings have been very solid so far, and we have a heck of a lot of business to do yet.

I get there are some concerns, but the time to properly judge will be in 7 weeks.

[Belial]

Fabrizio Romano confirms it’s done. Rats leaving the sinking ship. On to the next one.

Or alternatively, premier league quality players leaving as expected to progress their career at a higher level to earn more wages when bigger teams show an interest, and Burnley having very little influence over the decision so work on a new strategy in a new league

[boatshed bill]

So you expect us to sign another central defender, a more proven ready to go one? I assume those 3 CBs were signed to replace Collins.

We will have to wait and see.
I'm not convinced we won't use the money well.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Worth saying that virtually everyone we bought so far we have bought cheaper than what they are valued at on those sites that do that stuff. We've had a player not yet in his prime who has been bid at £12m in the past going for under £1m, three or four “next big things” bought for about £5m-£10m combined.

Arguably the club have saved £10m there so if we have lost £10m on what we may have sold Pope and Collins for, the two could net off. It’s obviously not a sellers market currently.

Having to be a club with this style of trading was necessary once the club was sold in the way it was, the key is whether it can be done in a way that pleases the fans and is successful. For that, we'll have to see.

[Rileybobs]

In your opinion

Yes of course. Everything I post is my opinion.

There are two components to a transfer - a player and a fee. Discussing one without the other is pointless……………in my opinion.

[Suntan]

I'm fairly sure that for the rebuild to happen this summer it was always the clubs intention to sell Collins, Pope, Cornet & possibly Dwight.

I don't think any player has requested to leave, but the players were told that if offers came in for them they would be considered and most likely accepted. I even think we have made it known that no player is 'not for sale' and invited offers from other clubs for any player.

£10m plus add ons for a 30yr old keeper in last year of contract was fair.
£25m for a player with massive potential but equally has only played a handful of games in a very defensive orientated side is fair.

Fairly sure Cornet will depart for £17.5m and if anyone should offer £15m + for McNeil we will negotiate his exit.

This was all part of the plan whether we fans like it or not. There's a lot of unknowns at the moment but there's nothing to say McNally doesn't go on to be just as good a player as Collins. And I'm fairly sure based on the values Collins isn't 10x the player of McNally.

Similarly if we sell Dwight for £20m and buy O'Hare for £10m, it doesn't mean we've lost a player who's twice as good - its just the markets we're operating in. O'Hare could potentially go on to be a better Premier League footballer than Dwight, who knows.

I think we just need to back the management and the team and see what the season brings, we may get a nice surprise at the quality of some these players signed this transfer window.

[Belgianclaret]

Missed out on Hendrick again
Jeff just gone to Reading

Good

[claretandy]

With regards to the fee, Nixon is sticking to his "Burnley know different" line.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Fee that could reach up to 20m

He was voted in the leagues team of the season too

Similar age, experience and fee then

[Damo]

I think some people are over-valuing Collins. He’s got potential, but what has he done to suggest he’s worth more than £20-£25m - considering he was signed for £12m less than 20 appearances ago.

And comparisons with other players just don’t really make sense. For example, maybe Ben White is just a better player than Collins, and his transfer fee is reflective of that.

I think some people are reading comments by Irish supporters on twitter when they are suggesting he's worth 40 - 50 million.
They were saying similar things about Jimmy Dunne a year or two ago (the Irish fans)

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

With regards to the fee, Nixon is sticking to his "Burnley know different" line.

Perhaps its being underreported purposely..

That would suit both clubs because it makes it seem like we have less then we do.

Nick Pope fee has been quoted as anywhere between 10m - 15m depending on who you believe.

If this is the case, it's a smart business move by Pace, even if it does irritate the fans.

[claretandy]

It may suit us to have a lower fee as Stoke get 20%, as long as the add-ons are achievable.

[Damo]

This is a perfect example of the money ball strategy that was discussed when pace took over.
I'd expect some of the young players we have recently signed will be sold at a profit too if they reach their potential.
It's something we have never really done before, apart from when we sold Jay and its something we are going to have to get used to

[ClaretTony]

Nick Pope fee has been quoted as anywhere between 10m - 15m depending on who you believe.

I think the top figure is only if a series of targets are hit

[dsr]

It may suit us to have a lower fee as Stoke get 20%, as long as the add-ons are achievable.

Stoke would get 20% of the add-ons as well.

[FeedTheArf]

It may suit us to have a lower fee as Stoke get 20%, as long as the add-ons are achievable.

Surely Stoke would get their cut of any future add ons too. Otherwise clubs would sell a player for £1 and do £20m payable after the first appearance (extreme example to illustrate the point).