Do we have McNeil's replacement already

[Big Vinny K]

There are more statistics and data in football than ever before and we know that most clubs have data analyst teams.

As fans there is a tendency to use certain stats to bias your own view of a player. Clubs will not do that as they know that it’s about the rounded analysis and not individual stats.
A perfect example of this for Burnley fans was those who used to criticise Taylor for his lack of assists and forgetting the fact that when we were playing well a a couple of years ago and Taylor and McNeil were combining well that a lot of this was down to Taylor’s lung bursting runs in the second half especially when he would often run half the pitch combining with McNeil or one of the forwards and get to the bi-line and win a corner or a free kick for being fouled. If we scored from that free kick or corner as we frequently would then it’s not Taylor who gets the assist - but he was integral to the goal.

The way we played under Dyche meant that our full backs just don’t play or get assists like other teams do - it’s about getting the team up the pitch and often fighting for the second balls to try and win free kicks or corners or just pick up a loose ball / pounce on a mistake through pressure etc. And for Burnley under this style of play it’s a different set of statistics that are important to us…..not as sexy as expected goals etc but vitally important to when we got that system to work.

[aggi]

McNeil 17 assists and 7 goals in 134 league games, was he worth 20 million ?

Well if that's what someone has paid the answer is clearly yes.

[hetheclaret]

So we continue to sell the Crown Jewels. Anyone with a sale value is gone or going. 90 millions worth replaced by 10 millions worth. It isn't going to work. A Jamie Vardy is one in a million. Between them our previous owners and the new ones have sold us up the river. I don't blame Mike Garlick for selling I blame him for who he sold it to.

Of course we're selling the crown jewels - it's called relegation. Every relegated side in history, unless bankrolled by an oligarch or oil, has sold its best players for a lot more than it will replace them with.

"It isn't going to work" - essentially saying no relegated side has ever bounced back. Get a grip.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Of course we're selling the crown jewels - it's called relegation. Every relegated side in history, unless bankrolled by an oligarch or oil, has sold its best players for a lot more than it will replace them with.

"It isn't going to work" - essentially saying no relegated side has ever bounced back. Get a grip.

Name one team that has done it on this scale?

[ClaretAL]

Name one team that has done it on this scale?

But then not many teams will have had so many out of contract and also way past there best on and age front and the average squad age needing addressing ASAP.

[AlargeClaret]

We were always gonna lose our best 6/7 players and did urgently need to bring the average age & wage down. That said many were expecting more than loans and cheap Belgians and seemingly no marque signing . Of course belts needed tightening in the champ , but a decent quality experienced( even if older ) prem player or 2 would have helped . VK knows many of the newbies and he’s hardly gonna bring junk in so I remain cautiously optimistic despite the “ semi asset strip “

[Stayingup]

Of course we're selling the crown jewels - it's called relegation. Every relegated side in history, unless bankrolled by an oligarch or oil, has sold its best players for a lot more than it will replace them with.

"It isn't going to work" - essentially saying no relegated side has ever bounced back. Get a grip.

As I recall we didn't sell all our saleable assets the last time we were relegated and from what I understand nether have Noewich or Wstford. Maybe you should get a grip - of some facts.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Well if that's what someone has paid the answer is clearly yes.

Someone paying it and what he's worth are clearly not the same

[RVclaret]

As I recall we didn't sell all our saleable assets the last time we were relegated and from what I understand nether have Noewich or Wstford. Maybe you should get a grip - of some facts.

Which saleable assets did we have the last time we were relegated? Trippier and Ings? They both left.

Watford have sold a few already and expect to lose more inc Sarr and Dennis.

Norwich have maybe 1 player who PL clubs would want (Aarons) but even he was out of their team towards the back end of the season.

[elwaclaret]

I’d have liked to have kept McNeil, but he was a luxury and I’m not too upset with him leaving. I think he may struggle again next season, and I expect him to be ‘from the bench’ rather than a regular starter. I think this move could ultimately blow up in his face, but I hope for his sake he can find the form that made him such a favourite here. For me he was a liability last season as he switched off far too often out of possession and others realised he was all left peg. A new coach may be able to fix him but I’m not convinced, as I think it is why United decided against keeping him in the first place. Good luck to him.

[KRBFC]

The Mcneil deal can only be judged when we see what's being reinvested, if we get O'Hare and a striker from it, I'm delighted with that. If we replace him with a cheap option like Benson and bank the rest, not so delighted.

[KRBFC]

Calm down love like I said you seem to have things in common ? You going Friday ?

No, I'll be at the Luton game.

There is plenty of people on here who disagree with me, they don't act like you though, holding grudges because of opinions and following me around the place for years. Some have probably even blocked me. You're supposed to be an adult.

Comments without knowledge? I keep it on topic about football, you're insistent on talking about my personal life like you have any idea how old I am, what I've contributed to the club or anything. Quite frankly it's nothing to do with you and you're wrong.

[claretonthecoast1882]

No, I'll be at the Luton game.

There is plenty of people on here who disagree with me, they don't act like you though, holding grudges because of opinions and following me around the place for years. Some have probably even blocked me. You're supposed to be an adult.

Following you, I know you ain't the brightest in the room but you do realise if you post nonsense over and over again on pretty much every thread I am likely to see it. If you would prefer I don't respond to your nonsense, then don't post nonsense. Hope this helps

[KRBFC]

Following you, I know you ain't the brightest in the room but you do realise if you post nonsense over and over again on pretty much every thread I am likely to see it. If you would prefer I don't respond to your nonsense, then don't post nonsense. Hope this helps

You have been talking about my attendance, my contribution to the club, my age, my family for years now. It's gone beyond tiresome and harassment.

Debate me on football happily, Do you see me talking about your attendance? age? family? contribution to the club? Quite frankly I have no idea how many games you've attended, so I couldn't speak accurately and it's non of my business.

[Luppy]

I find it bizarre when players are criticised for a lack of assists when others don't put the ball in the net. The sitter from a yard out Cornet missed at Norwich comes to mind as an example.

[KRBFC]

I find it bizarre when players are criticised for a lack of assists when others don't put the ball in the net. The sitter from a yard out Cornet missed at Norwich comes to mind as an example.

The criticism of Mcneil is harsh, he was our only creative threat for years and often had to beat 2 men on the halfway line just to pass it forward. I think he finished top 5 for number of tackles in the PL, says quite a lot about the role he played imo. I don't buy the one footed thing either, plenty of world class players are one footed, Messi being the best example.

[davideyresleftear]

Never see the likes of him again

I can still remember his 1 assist last season like it was yesterday

[Bosscat]

The criticism of Mcneil is harsh, he was our only creative threat for years and often had to beat 2 men on the halfway line just to pass it forward. I think he finished top 5 for number of tackles in the PL, says quite a lot about the role he played imo. I don't buy the one footed thing either, plenty of world class players are one footed, Messi being the best example.

I am sure Messi had 2 feet

Messi has 2 feets.jpeg (10.72 KiB) Viewed 2079 times

Yes definitely 2 feet

[hetheclaret]

As I recall we didn't sell all our saleable assets the last time we were relegated and from what I understand nether have Noewich or Wstford. Maybe you should get a grip - of some facts.

I agree with the post above - our only sellable assets in summer 2015 were Trippier and Ings, who both left. Our team was championship standard because we'd only been in the PL for one year.

This time, we've been in it for six years, hence why we have a number of players we cannot keep hold of (I emphasis the cannot).

Some Clarets just seem to have not realised we've been relegated, and what that means for our negotiating position. When the PL teams come coming now, we have next to zero power to keep them.

To suggest selling £70m worth of assets and only buying £10m of replacement is foolish - what do you think we should do? Buy players for £20m? We're in the Championship. People seem to be forgetting it.

[aggi]

Someone paying it and what he's worth are clearly not the same

It's the only real measure. We can all make guesses based on stats or whatever but the best way to ascertain the value of something is how much cold, hard cash was handed over to obtain that asset.

[KRBFC]

To suggest selling £70m worth of assets and only buying £10m of replacement is foolish - what do you think we should do? Buy players for £20m? We're in the Championship. People seem to be forgetting it.

sufficient money should be spent on replacements to attempt to be competitive at the top of this league. Nobody expects us to spend £20m on 1 player. We need 2 or 3 in the £7m-9m bracket.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

As for comments without knowledge you should remember that when it comes to finance, but it doesn't stop you

brutal

MODERATOR: I nearly left the complaints live so CT could pull the thread, but have decided to give it one more chance. Can ALL the usual bickering now cease. Because quite frankly it has become more than tedious for the rest of us. I have very little sympathy for posters who lack respect for other posters and even less for those who actively engage in such nonsense and then call foul. Genuine posters come on here looking for debate and rumours not for playground squabbles… if you don’t know who you are ask a friend. CUT IT OUT OR LOSE THE THREAD.

[hetheclaret]

sufficient money should be spent on replacements to attempt to be competitive at the top of this league. Nobody expects us to spend £20m on 1 player. We need 2 or 3 in the £7m-9m bracket.

Maybe - but a high fee does not guarantee you a good player, and a low fee does not guarantee you a bad player.

Samuel Bastien cost us £600k (I think?) and he has been targeted supposedly by Arsenal in the not too distant past. We don't have to spend a fortune to get good players in.

Another point - how do we know we haven't already spent sufficient money? The season hasn't even started yet.

Nobody should be making judgements on the transfer window when it still has a month to go and a ball hasn't been kicked yet.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

sufficient money should be spent on replacements to attempt to be competitive at the top of this league. Nobody expects us to spend £20m on 1 player. We need 2 or 3 in the £7m-9m bracket.

Why do we need to spend £21-27 million on 3 players?
If we can get the same quality for less money isn't that preferable or wouldn't you accept that?

Arfield was free, as was Heaton.
Pope was £1 million
Mee and Trips were about £1.4 million for the pair I think.
Tarks was about £4 million, Keane £3 million.

It's about quality, not what they cost.

[hetheclaret]

Why do we need to spend £21-27 million on 3 players?
If we can get the same quality for less money isn't that preferable or wouldn't you accept that?

Arfield was free, as was Heaton.
Pope was £1 million
Mee and Trips were about £1.4 million for the pair I think.
Tarks was about £4 million, Keane £3 million.

It's about quality, not what they cost.

Hear hear.

The people calling for us to spend more are also probably those being most vocal about the "financial mess" we're in.

[onewillieirvine]

A rough estimate of fee and wages it'll cost Everton about forty million over the five years for Dwight. Hard to compete with that.
_____________________________________
Mod… this is just the latest post… and the below comments are not related to this post (just the latest post on the thread, for people to see)

MODERATOR: I nearly left the complaints live so CT could pull the thread, but have decided to give it one more chance. Can ALL the usual bickering now cease. Because quite frankly it has become more than tedious for the rest of us. I have very little sympathy for posters who lack respect for other posters and even less for those who actively engage in such nonsense and then call foul. Genuine posters come on here looking for debate and discussion not for playground squabbles… if you don’t know who you are ask a friend. CUT IT OUT OR LOSE THE THREAD.

[KRBFC]

Why do we need to spend £21-27 million on 3 players?
If we can get the same quality for less money isn't that preferable or wouldn't you accept that?

Arfield was free, as was Heaton.
Pope was £1 million
Mee and Trips were about £1.4 million for the pair I think.
Tarks was about £4 million, Keane £3 million.

It's about quality, not what they cost.

It's a fair point, there are definitely lower cost quality players out there, we just have to find them. The problem is, you're asking an awful lot to uncover a gem in almost every single position at the same time. We need 2 or 3 like O'Hare to come in and hit the ground running to supplement the gambles, there has to be a balance. You're right about fees too, I'd have been happy with Swift and Wallace on frees for example.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It's a fair point, there are definitely lower cost quality players out there, we just have to find them. The problem is, you're asking an awful lot to uncover a gem in almost every single position at the same time. We need 2 or 3 like O'Hare to come in and hit the ground running to supplement the gambles, there has to be a balance. You're right about fees too, I'd have been happy with Swift and Wallace on frees for example.

O'Hare is being potentially overpriced by Coventry so if they do sell they'll do very well out of it, we might even go back with a better offer yet.

The positive is now we aren't spending most of the window just chasing a single player because that used to be aggravating when it was clear we could be looking at alternatives and not lose out on the final day then leaving ourselves short etc.

Plus with the now viable option of buying in from abroad we may get better value for money.

I suspect we're also being mindful of ensuring the wage bill doesn't get out of hand, WBA probably offered Wallace wages we wouldn't match.

[KRBFC]

O'Hare is being potentially overpriced by Coventry so if they do sell they'll do very well out of it, we might even go back with a better offer yet.

The positive is now we aren't spending most of the window just chasing a single player because that used to be aggravating when it was clear we could be looking at alternatives and not lose out on the final day then leaving ourselves short etc.

Plus with the now viable option of buying in from abroad we may get better value for money.

I suspect we're also being mindful of ensuring the wage bill doesn't get out of hand, WBA probably offered Wallace wages we wouldn't match.

I'm in agreement with you, I'm happy with the business done so far. Plenty of gambles, but they look good risks. I just think we need 2-3 players to slot straight in no questions. If it's not O'Hare, how about Ilias Chair? two of the very best in this division, young with a higher ceiling in a role we need. It's gonna cost but if we're serious about promotion, this team needs those kind of replacements in 3 areas atm. We have brought in more than enough money to not have to gamble in every position.

[KRBFC]

I am not complaining, I said further up the Mcneil sale is dependant on who is signed with the incoming fee. If selling Dwight means we can fund a striker and O'Hare, it's a very very good decision to sell. I'm just explaining what I'd like to see, obviously we'll have to wait and see before casting judgement.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I am not complaining, I said further up the Mcneil sale is dependant on who is signed with the incoming fee. If selling Dwight means we can fund a striker and O'Hare, it's a very very good decision to sell. I'm just explaining what I'd like to see, obviously we'll have to wait and see before casting judgement.

I was just querying the need to spend so much that's all.
I agree we still need more attacking players to come in, but Kompany did say in his interview yesterday that the club is still out shopping

[Stayingup]

Which saleable assets did we have the last time we were relegated? Trippier and Ings? They both left.

Watford have sold a few already and expect to lose more inc Sarr and Dennis.

Norwich have maybe 1 player who PL clubs would want (Aarons) but even he was out of their team towards the back end of the season.

Oh I think Mee, Boyd, Arfield were worth a bob or two. There are probably more I just can't bring to mind. .aybe Sam Vokes too.

[Cirrus_Minor]

We will miss McNeils ability and his potential. In my opinion, because of his ability, was asked to fo too much last season and this hung around his neck like a lead weight. He is a exceptional player, still only 22, with a lot too offer if used correctly.

[bobinho]

Already being remembered as Bobby Charlton, when the reality (certainly for the past two seasons) is he’s been more like Jack Charlton.

Probably would’ve been a good player at championship level, if he’d found his feet again. I’m sure there is a good player in there, we’ve seen it, but maybe the framework and the style went some way to masking that.

[RVclaret]

Oh I think Mee, Boyd, Arfield were worth a bob or two. There are probably more I just can't bring to mind. .aybe Sam Vokes too.

There was literally zero PL interest in any of the ones you mentioned.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

brutal

MODERATOR: I nearly left the complaints live so CT could pull the thread, but have decided to give it one more chance. Can ALL the usual bickering now cease. Because quite frankly it has become more than tedious for the rest of us. I have very little sympathy for posters who lack respect for other posters and even less for those who actively engage in such nonsense and then call foul. Genuine posters come on here looking for debate and rumours not for playground squabbles… if you don’t know who you are ask a friend. CUT IT OUT OR LOSE THE THREAD.

Pulling the thread doesn’t solve anything. They’ll just start another. Suspending the people that spoil the threads (and their IP addresses) , now that’s the answer.

[Vegas Claret]

sufficient money should be spent on replacements to attempt to be competitive at the top of this league. Nobody expects us to spend £20m on 1 player. We need 2 or 3 in the £7m-9m bracket.

Not long since Bastien was valued at 16-20 by his club. I think we are getting good deals because of lengths of contracts for some of these players.

I trust (maybe blindly) that Kompany has learned a lot from not only his playing career but also from his time at Anderlecht - don't forget his end goal will be to manage at someone like City and he won't do that by screwing up at Burnley. Have a little faith at least mate.

[KRBFC]

Pulling the thread doesn’t solve anything. They’ll just start another. Suspending the people that spoil the threads (and their IP addresses) , now that’s the answer.

I fell into his trap here, so I'm guilty but I'm bored of being sniped at for years by the same person talking about my family and personal life. Not that I'm innocent with other posters but this is the only poster I'd accuse of harassment. I have never mentioned his family, I never respond to his posts on topics (only retaliate). The moderators wouldn't let this slide if it was them being targeted everytime they posted for years by the same poster.

[boatshed bill]

It's a fair point, there are definitely lower cost quality players out there, we just have to find them. The problem is, you're asking an awful lot to uncover a gem in almost every single position at the same time. We need 2 or 3 like O'Hare to come in and hit the ground running to supplement the gambles, there has to be a balance. You're right about fees too, I'd have been happy with Swift and Wallace on frees for example.

Do you really think O'Hare is worth in excess of £10million?

[KRBFC]

Not long since Bastien was valued at 16-20 by his club. I think we are getting good deals because of lengths of contracts for some of these players.

I trust (maybe blindly) that Kompany has learned a lot from not only his playing career but also from his time at Anderlecht - don't forget his end goal will be to manage at someone like City and he won't do that by screwing up at Burnley. Have a little faith at least mate.

Don't get it twisted pal, full faith in Vincent. Happy with the current signings. I want us competing at the top and feel we're a couple of real quality short, seeing the big fees come in, I'd like to see a few proper signings come in (Andre Gray type) to compliment the risky ones. I'll make judgement at the end, just saying what I'd like to see.

[KRBFC]

Do you really think O'Hare is worth in excess of £10million?

50% of Mcneil? I think that's a fair replacement. What will O'Hare be valued at in 2 years? likely more than £10m. If he helps us get promoted, he's undoubtedly worth £10m.

What was Andre Gray worth to us? he was a huge part in promotion (£120m income), huge part in remaining in the PL (£120m income), then sold for almost double (£17m, £9m ish profit). What kind of value do you put on that contribution? his goals were integral to securing the club promotion (and the £120m windfall that followed).

£10m will likely only be if we are promoted, £6m-8m upfront. Standout attacking young midfielder, looks about right to me.

[Granny WeatherWax]

Back to the OP, I sincerely hope not. Time to pay for O’Hare if that is VKs desire.

[boatshed bill]

50% of Mcneil? I think that's a fair replacement. What will O'Hare be valued at in 2 years? likely more than £10m. If he helps us get promoted, he's undoubtedly worth £10m.

What was Andre Gray worth to us? he was a huge part in promotion (£120m income), huge part in remaining in the PL (£120m income), then sold for almost double (£17m, £9m ish profit). What kind of value do you put on that contribution? his goals were integral to securing the club promotion (and the £120m windfall that followed).

£10m will likely only be if we are promoted, £6m-8m upfront. Standout attacking young midfielder, looks about right to me.

That's not really an answer to my question.
(And for starters Andre Gray didn't earn that money on his own).
Do you think O'Hare's value is currently £10+ million?

[KRBFC]

That's not really an answer to my question.
(And for starters Andre Gray didn't earn that money on his own).
Do you think O'Hare's value is currently £10+ million?

If we're signing a younger player, I think it's important we consider his likely future value which I'm sure we will do. I don't think £10m is too far off his current value.

2018/19 James Maddison sold for £22.5m.
Bowen 19£m 2019/20
Lewis Potter £17m 22/23
Clucas 17/18 £14m
Eze 20/21 £16m
Robbie Brady 16/17 £13.5m
Hendrick £9m
Olise £7m (release clause)

[boatshed bill]

If we're signing a younger player, I think it's important we consider his likely future value which I'm sure we will do. I don't think £10m is too far off his current value.

2018/19 James Maddison sold for £22.5m.
Bowen 19£m 2019/20
Lewis Potter £17m 22/23
Clucas 17/18 £14m
Eze 20/21 £16m
Robbie Brady 16/17 £13.5m
Hendrick £9m
Olise £7m (release clause)

Weren't they all signed to PL clubs?