Extinction Rebellion

[Lowbankclaret]

Those with solar panels are like vegans, both will inform you that they are/have them within 3 mins of meeting them.

To be fair, a Volvo is a drain on your household income, where solar panels put money back in your pocket.

Vegans are just extremists.

[Volvoclaret]

See, we've not even met Lowbank and you're telling me about Solar panels. Point proven.

[Lowbankclaret]

See, we've not even met Lowbank and you're telling me about Solar panels. Point proven.

And you obviously drive a Volvo and cannot accept generating your own electric might be a good thing. Electric bill last month £15.
Funnily enough, it’s what extinction rebellion are about. Renewables

[Lancasterclaret]

Fracking ban getting overturned tomorrow

https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/statu ... 3231993858

Oh well, we could have started a real drive for renewable energy, but no, we are going to give oil and gas companies even more money

[Volvoclaret]

Your assuming I drive a Volvo by my username, but maybe I use it because I ROLL with it.

NB look up translation.
PS most ER supporters are Vegan therefore in your own words extremists.

[Lancasterclaret]

Isn't Josh Brownhill a vegan?

[LeadBelly]

Fracking ban getting overturned tomorrow

https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/statu ... 3231993858

Oh well, we could have started a real drive for renewable energy, but no, we are going to give oil and gas companies even more money

A load of energy companies went bankrupt in the last couple of years - list attached. Who gave them "even more money" I wonder?
https://www.standard.co.uk/esmoney/ener ... 58705.html

[dsr]

Hipper, we have loads of rivers in the northwest and can capture hydro. Whilst it’s not the whole answer. A combined hydro, wind and solar could provide most of our energy.
Like I told our new Labour candidate when he knocked on my door last week, if companies were forced to pay home owners half the price they pay for import electric, that would bring down time to recoup peoples outlay and get more people to buy.
Check out whalleyhydro.

Norwegian rivers tend to fall from 3,000 feet to ground level in a few miles, and so have a lot more latent power for hydroelectric.

[Lowbankclaret]

Norwegian rivers tend to fall from 3,000 feet to ground level in a few miles, and so have a lot more latent power for hydroelectric.

But whalleyhydro still generates loads of electric and it can be repeated hundreds of times. Free electric, but I suspose you think coal is the future.we could have 300 of those hydro stations in the northwest alone. Unobtrusive, not even as obvious as a wind turbine.

[dsr]

But whalleyhydro still generates loads of electric and it can be repeated hundreds of times. Free electric, but I suspose you think coal is the future.we could have 300 of those hydro stations in the northwest alone. Unobtrusive, not even as obvious as a wind turbine.

It doesn't generate "loads", unfortunately. It generates 345,000 kwh per year. The average household uses something like 12,000 kwh of gas and 3,000 kwh of electricity each year, so even if electricity could be as efficient as gas at heating a home, it's still only enough to supply 23 homes.

https://www.whalleyhydro.co.uk/
https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/a ... city-usage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... _in_Norway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyssedal_ ... er_Station

The last two links are a list of Norwegian power stations, and the bottom one is one with a capacity of 100 megawatts and production of 700 gigawatthours per year. That's 700,000,000 kwh, or bigger than Whalley by a factor of 2,000. And yet it's one of their smaller hydroelectirc stations - they have 38 with a bigger capacity.

Size really does matter when it comes to generating water power.

[Taffy on the wing]

Your assuming I drive a Volvo by my username, but maybe I use it because I ROLL with it.

NB look up translation.
PS most ER supporters are Vegan therefore in your own words extremists.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Taffy on the wing]

A load of energy companies went bankrupt in the last couple of years - list attached. Who gave them "even more money" I wonder?
https://www.standard.co.uk/esmoney/ener ... 58705.html

Follow the money......I bet the Executives at said companies did just fine.

[Lancasterclaret]

A load of energy companies went bankrupt in the last couple of years - list attached. Who gave them "even more money" I wonder?
https://www.standard.co.uk/esmoney/ener ... 58705.html

Why have you bought up energy companies when I specifically said oil and gas companies?

[Burnley Ace]

The companies that seem to have gone “under the radar” are those generating low cost electricity (renewables and nuclear) yet charging a massive mark up. Shouldn’t the price of electricity be decoupled from gas or an extra tax paid by these firms?

[Top Claret]

Fracking ban getting overturned tomorrow

https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/statu ... 3231993858

Oh well, we could have started a real drive for renewable energy, but no, we are going to give oil and gas companies even more money

It can't be a bad thing if it gives you tree huggers something to moan about

[martin_p]

It can't be a bad thing if it gives you tree huggers something to moan about

Isn’t it about time we stopped ‘cutting off our nose to spite our face’ and started basing our opinions/casting our votes on what’s for the long term good of the country rather than to upset someone we don’t like.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Are animal rebellion part of the same group or are these oddballs a separate entity ?

[Top Claret]

Isn’t it about time we stopped ‘cutting off our nose to spite our face’ and started basing our opinions/casting our votes on what’s for the long term good of the country rather than to upset someone we don’t like.

The long term good of the country is energy security then we don't have this fiasco again, If it means investment in fossil fuels at the expense of renewables then so be it.

It annoys when people put ideology in front of common sense this is one of the reasons we have Putin's war with the Ukrainian, because the EU ditched energy security for cheap Russian oil

As for upsetting Lancaster he doesn't need a sensitive type like you speaking out for him, in other words mind your own business

[martin_p]

The long term good of the country is energy security then we don't have this fiasco again, If it means investment in fossil fuels at the expense of renewables then so be it.

It annoys when people put ideology in front of common sense this is one of the reasons we have Putin's war with the Ukrainian, because the EU ditched energy security for cheap Russian oil

As for upsetting Lancaster he doesn't need a sensitive type like you speaking out for him, in other words mind your own business

But how can investing in a finite resource be seen as long term?

[Hipper]

Hipper, we have loads of rivers in the northwest and can capture hydro. Whilst it’s not the whole answer. A combined hydro, wind and solar could provide most of our energy.
Like I told our new Labour candidate when he knocked on my door last week, if companies were forced to pay home owners half the price they pay for import electric, that would bring down time to recoup peoples outlay and get more people to buy.
Check out whalleyhydro.

We discussed this before:

https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... o#p1660453

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/micr ... er-systems

[Hipper]

The long term good of the country is energy security then we don't have this fiasco again, If it means investment in fossil fuels at the expense of renewables then so be it.

It annoys when people put ideology in front of common sense this is one of the reasons we have Putin's war with the Ukrainian, because the EU ditched energy security for cheap Russian oil

As for upsetting Lancaster he doesn't need a sensitive type like you speaking out for him, in other words mind your own business

I agree about energy security but we also need food security, all sorts of other security (not to mention proper security - military). We don't have most of these and have survived until now so I don't consider it the most vital item on the agender but it is important. This war in Ukraine is hopefully a short term matter and we should base energy supply strategy on medium to long term assessments.

That means Climate Change. That's not ideology. It's fact.

[bobinho]

Long term?

Can’t we make the most of what we have in the short term whilst planning better for the long term?

We KNOW that the use of fossil fuels will be finite - we should do, we’ve had it rammed down our necks for decades that it’s running out. Use it now to our benefit, prep for the future. We haven’t done that despite knowing the energy we currently use is not the future, because we are obsessed with making obscene amounts of profit. Only tiny percentages of that profit is used to make genuine attempts at finding alternatives. I get that people wanna be rich because our lives are finite so we want to enjoy things now. Expecting everyone to give everything up and live in hardship to ensure that future generations have it easier is ridiculous. You’d need EVERYONE to think like that, and that’s never gonna happen.

Make use of our natural resources now whilst we have them. Coal, gas, oil, and let’s get fracking. Use everything. Use it, but use the profits made from it better. Develop ways to create and store energy that will last and is renewable. Become a true island nation that depends on no one else to look after ourselves. We have copious amounts of fresh water, the wind is endless, waves constantly lapping at the shores, even the sun shines occasionally. These things can be developed whilst using what we have underneath us, if only the money made was directed to the right place. If we don’t properly get amongst this, we will all end up with electric cars in the driveway, but walking everywhere because we can’t afford to charge them up because we have to buy our energy from countries that KNOW we can’t make our own. Guess what happens to the cost when we become totally reliant on those with low morals. Seeing that right now, so anyone expecting anything different in the future is going to be sorely disappointed.

[Lancasterclaret]

It can't be a bad thing if it gives you tree huggers something to moan about

If its safe, and helps contribute towards a planet saving net zero, then I've not got a problem

Fracking isn't safe, isn't going to contribute towards net zero and is just handing more profits to the oil and gas companies

Does anyone know how long it will take a fracking site to get up and running (taking into account problem like legal challenges)?

I'll be amazed if any are running after the energy crisis is over, which then makes this a purely money making move for the fossil fuel industry

[Lancasterclaret]

The long term good of the country is energy security then we don't have this fiasco again, If it means investment in fossil fuels at the expense of renewables then so be it.

It annoys when people put ideology in front of common sense this is one of the reasons we have Putin's war with the Ukrainian, because the EU ditched energy security for cheap Russian oil

As for upsetting Lancaster he doesn't need a sensitive type like you speaking out for him, in other words mind your own business

I'm never going to be upset on here mate as long as you don't start internet stalking me like Ringo did!

I don't see the point in spending millions on a finite, polluting resource (which incidently needs a **** load of water to work, and that is another thing that we need to be a lot more careful with) when we could spend millions on renewables instead

[Rowls]

The idea that we’ve done little or nothing in developing renewables it very easily disprovable. It is palpably untrue.

It’s cost us billions in government funding and subsidies - and continues to do so.

Renewable energy has been the primary focus of our energy policy for years now.

[Hipper]

The companies that seem to have gone “under the radar” are those generating low cost electricity (renewables and nuclear) yet charging a massive mark up. Shouldn’t the price of electricity be decoupled from gas or an extra tax paid by these firms?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... ering-sums

It seems the fundamental issue is that all electricity (or gas) is put into the National Grid. Only if you supply your own electricity from renewable sources can you reap the financial benefits.

[Lancasterclaret]

The idea that we’ve done little or nothing in developing renewables it very easily disprovable. It is palpably untrue.

It’s cost us billions in government funding and subsidies - and continues to do so.

Renewable energy has been the primary focus of our energy policy for years now.

It hasn't been, because if it had, it would be the primary source of all our power needs, and it clearly isn't

You can argue that we should have had a long term plan and that ALL governments are responsible for why it hasn't happened

If it helps, I think the last idea in Johnsons government of small nuclear reactors based on submarine tech is a very good idea, and my ideal energy policy is 100% renewable backed up by nuclear

[Lancasterclaret]

Kwasi Kwarteng, writing on March 6 2022

"First, the Uk has no gas supply issues, and even if we lifted the fracking moratorium tomorrow, IT WOULD TAKE A DECADE TO EXTRACT SUFFICENT VOLUMES"

This is beginning to sound like a another "Quick, lets look like we are doing something" plan which is more than a little depressing

[Hipper]

Expecting everyone to give everything up and live in hardship to ensure that future generations have it easier is ridiculous. You’d need EVERYONE to think like that, and that’s never gonna happen.

People did this (at least accepting a lower standard of living) for the benefit of their children - paying school fees, help for university etc.. Do parents no longer care for their children's future?

[aggi]

The chancellor's thoughts on fracking:

[aggi]

The idea that we’ve done little or nothing in developing renewables it very easily disprovable. It is palpably untrue.

It’s cost us billions in government funding and subsidies - and continues to do so.

Renewable energy has been the primary focus of our energy policy for years now.

That's probably why no-one is saying that.

[Rowls]

That's probably why no-one is saying that.

See Lancaster’s response to my post.

Even those who aren’t saying it explicitly are implying it.

It’s simply not true.

[martin_p]

See Lancaster’s response to my post.

Even those who aren’t saying it explicitly are implying it.

It’s simply not true.

I’ve looked at Lancaster’s post and he’s still not saying it or implying it, he’s just challenged your assertion that renewables have been our primary focus for years.

[Lancasterclaret]

See Lancaster’s response to my post.

Even those who aren’t saying it explicitly are implying it.

It’s simply not true.

I'm not though am I?

[Rowls]

I've re-read it and misread it first time round.

At least we all agree that we've been spending billions on renewables for years and years.

[Rowls]

I’ve looked at Lancaster’s post and he’s still not saying it or implying it, he’s just challenged your assertion that renewables have been our primary focus for years.

Well he's wrong on that fron then.

We've closed down numerous coal burning power plants.

We opened a wood-burning power station and now have to ship wood pellets in from the USA.

We've refused to open up our reserves of frackable oil.

We've reduced north sea oil production.

At the same time we've massively hiked subsidies on every kind of renewable possible. A good percentage of our energy bill (on top of taxes we pay) goes into funding these renewables, and Forest Green Rovers.

[Lancasterclaret]

Well he's wrong on that fron then.

We've closed down numerous coal burning power plants.

We opened a wood-burning power station and now have to ship wood pellets in from the USA.

We've refused to open up our reserves of frackable oil.

We've reduced north sea oil production.

At the same time we've massively hiked subsidies on every kind of renewable possible. A good percentage of our energy bill (on top of taxes we pay) goes into funding these renewables, and Forest Green Rovers.

No links to back that up

I'm shocked

[Lancasterclaret]

Lovely stuff

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nergy-plan

[martin_p]

Lovely stuff

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nergy-plan

Looks like they found Jeremy Corbyn’s magic money tree then. And to think, three years ago they swore blind it didn’t exist!

[dsr]

No links to back that up

I'm shocked

I'm surprised you don't know all that from reading the papers. You need a link to confirm the existence of the Drax power station, for example? You need a link to know there is a green energy surcharge on domestic power? The problem is that if someone makes 6 or 7 statements which are common knowledge, and provides links for them all, it really clutters up the message for little benefit. So tell Rowls which of his statements you didn't know about (because I can't believe you know nothing at all) and perhaps he will find you a link.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm surprised you don't know all that from reading the papers. You need a link to confirm the existence of the Drax power station, for example? You need a link to know there is a green energy surcharge on domestic power? The problem is that if someone makes 6 or 7 statements which are common knowledge, and provides links for them all, it really clutters up the message for little benefit. So tell Rowls which of his statements you didn't know about (because I can't believe you know nothing at all) and perhaps he will find you a link.

I need links to prove that what Rowls is saying about the green energy agenda is true

I mean, only someone really disingenuous would think I needed links about Drax Power station

You do know that, so why mention it?

[TheFamilyCat]

Lovely stuff

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nergy-plan

Come on, who's going to notice a couple of hundred billion on top of 2.3 trillion?

[Rowls]

No links to back that up

I'm shocked

Go look it up yourself.

Or if it's so imperative of you to provide a link then get some of your own to make a counter claim.

[Burnley Ace]

The UK Gov can put a cap on the price that UK sourced gas is sold at and that can be less than the “world” market price.

“Extract sufficient quantities” to completely replace any imported gas or to contribute to the overall production target?

[Lancasterclaret]

Go look it up yourself.

Or if it's so imperative of you to provide a link then get some of your own to make a counter claim.

You are making stuff up (again)

24 hours after "you want a debate"

Never change Rowls, never change

[aggi]

An interesting approach in Germany for assistance with energy costs.

All households get a base level of energy for free and then usage above that is charged at a premium
https://twitter.com/michaelujacobs/stat ... 6877959168

Quite smart in that it is focused on those who are worse off and also encourages energy saving.

[Hipper]

How on earth would you manage that?

I can only think the best way is to put a financial value on the base energy level and give each household that money off their bills, rather like they are doing with the £400 energy payment. Then increase the tax on energy. For businesses you would need some other method.