Flight tracking of our new striker not allowed anymore?

[Rowls]

Experts v very opinionated people on social media

Tough one

No, it's Experts Vs Experts.

In one corner, you have Prof Neil Ferguson, Anthony Fauci and the Chinese Communist Party who advocate lockdowns.

In the other corner you have Prof Jay Bhattacharya, Anders Tegnell, the Swedish government and the US states of Florida and Texas.

At stake is our health, prosperity, human rights and civil liberties.

I know what side I'm on and it's NOT the one with the Chinese Communist Party. Now the daily scare-mongering has stopped more and more people are seeing the lunacy of what we did. The effects of it are being suffered by everybody right now.

[Rowls]

Looks like he is managing to (intentionally) politicise an already incredibly political platform.

It's the exact opposite. He's attempting to stop one side of the divide from being able to suppress and censor the other.

[Rowls]

[Greenmile]

It's the exact opposite. He's attempting to stop one side of the divide from being able to suppress and censor the other.

....by suspending their Twitter accounts. Brilliant, apolitical, free speech move that.

He bought Twitter, so can do what he wants with it, but anyone still viewing him as a non-partisan free speech warrior at this stage is either not paying attention or lying to themselves and others.

I’m pretty sure Rowls has been paying attention.

[Rowls]

....by suspending their Twitter accounts. Brilliant, apolitical, free speech move that.

He bought Twitter, so can do what he wants with it, but anyone still viewing him as a non-partisan free speech warrior at this stage is either not paying attention or lying to themselves and others.

I’m pretty sure Rowls has been paying attention.

[Lancasterclaret]

Rowls, I know you don't like to post your evidence, but I'd like to see it

I'm starting to get the nagging feeling that you are on the cusp of a rabbit hole that will inevitably result in you talking about drinking bleach to cure Covid and that a lap top would change the whole scope of the US 2020 Presidential election......oh hang on

[Rowls]

Rowls, I know you don't like to post your evidence, but I'd like to see it

I'm starting to get the nagging feeling that you are on the cusp of a rabbit hole that will inevitably result in you talking about drinking bleach to cure Covid and that a lap top would change the whole scope of the US 2020 Presidential election......oh hang on

What evidence?

[Lancasterclaret]

What evidence?

The death figures

I saw what happened in Bergamo, and I know that if there wasn't a lockdown then the medical services would have collapsed

I know this, you know this

If you want to seperate the lockdowns after the vaccine was proven to work and was given to the vulnerable, then you may well have a point, but if you are telling me that the first wave lockdown was the wrong tactic then I'm going to tell you right now that you are covid denier and a conspiracy theory follower and you don't deserve anything other than having the p**s relentlessly taken out of you

[Rowls]

The death figures

I saw what happened in Bergamo, and I know that if there wasn't a lockdown then the medical services would have collapsed

I know this, you know this

If you want to seperate the lockdowns after the vaccine was proven to work and was given to the vulnerable, then you may well have a point, but if you are telling me that the first wave lockdown was the wrong tactic then I'm going to tell you right now that you are covid denier and a conspiracy theory follower and you don't deserve anything other than having the p**s relentlessly taken out of you

Here you go:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

No lockdown in Sweden. No collapse of medical services.

[Rowls]

Inflation in Sweden is currently running at 2.16% versus 11.1% here.

Looks like the virus has only caused inflation in some countries.

[claretcarrot93]

They did not know it at the time but when the dust settles lockdowns will have caused more harm than done good.

[Belgianclaret]

That’s a renewed bid for Grosycky dead in the water then

[Lancasterclaret]

They did not know it at the time but when the dust settles lockdowns will have caused more harm than done good.

1st lockdown I don't agree with you

I can't even remember the timings of the other two, but if its after the vaccine then they probably shouldn't have happened (and that is only with hindsight btw)

[Lancasterclaret]

Here you go:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

No lockdown in Sweden. No collapse of medical services.

You need to provide the stats for the entire period, not just one of how many deaths there are at the moment

You are going to struggle to convince me that what happened in densely populated parts of the UK wouldn't have been replicated what happened in Bergamo in Italy if there hadn't been a lockdown

[Rowls]

OK, so Sweden might have had far fewer deaths than us as a percentage of their population. But did their government spend BILLIONS of taxpayers money to "Beat the Virus"???



Now we're no longer being scared to death by daily government propaganda, people are starting to realise how we screwed the economy up so much. And they're starting to realise we did NOT have to do it. Sweden didn't.

[Swizzlestick]

Inflation in Sweden is currently running at 2.16% versus 11.1% here.

Looks like the virus has only caused inflation in some countries.

Sorry, where did you get that Swedish inflation rate from? I'm sure I heard on the radio their inflation rate is currently c. 11%

[Rowls]

You need to provide the stats for the entire period, not just one of how many deaths there are at the moment

You are going to struggle to convince me that what happened in densely populated parts of the UK wouldn't have been replicated what happened in Bergamo in Italy if there hadn't been a lockdown

They ARE the stats for the entire period.

[Rowls]

Sorry, where did you get that Swedish inflation rate from? I'm sure I heard on the radio their inflation rate is currently c. 11%

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweish+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

[martin_p]

Inflation in Sweden is currently running at 2.16% versus 11.1% here.

Looks like the virus has only caused inflation in some countries.

Inflation in Sweden is currently running at 11.5%

https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/inflation-cpi

[Rowls]

Looks like I've got the Sweden figures wrong. I'd got the 2021 figure. Their current rate is similar to ours.

But the death figures are correct.

As is the fact they did not have a lockdown.

[Lancasterclaret]

Looks like I've got the Sweden figures wrong. It's similar to ours.

But the death figures are correct.

As is the fact they did not have a lockdown.

*Siri, show me the dangers of using the internet as a source when I want it to say exactly what I want it to say*

[Swizzlestick]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sweish+ ... e&ie=UTF-8

Yeah, that's 2021. Ours was 2.5% in 2021.

Their current inflation rate is c. 11%.

[Lancasterclaret]

They ARE the stats for the entire period.

No, I may have phrased it wrong, detailed stats for the entire period, maybe by month?

Pretty sure that Sweden was being using by people like you all over twitter until it went soaring past us and then it suddenly wasn't

[Swizzlestick]

Looks like I've got the Sweden figures wrong. I'd got the 2021 figure. Their current rate is similar to ours.

But the death figures are correct.

As is the fact they did not have a lockdown.

It was a pretty important facet of your 'argument', and you didn't bother your arse to check your facts. I'm not entirely sure why we should bother listening to a word you say now, frankly.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Oh dear

[martin_p]

It was a pretty important facet of your 'argument', and you didn't bother your arse to check your facts. I'm not entirely sure why we should bother listening to a word you say now, frankly.

Especially for someone so interested in ‘the truth’.

[ClaretRoob]

Here you go:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

No lockdown in Sweden. No collapse of medical services.

The great thing about stats is the ease of manipulation, but when you see

Sweden 204.57 deaths per 100,000
UK 290.57 deaths per 100,00

The UK has a population density 11x greater than Sweden.

Sweden 25p/km2
UK 281p/km2

The denser population makes it easier to transmit
1st Lockdown saved thousand's

[daveisaclaret]

Very funny that everyone's favourite right wing blowhard is still blabbering on about Sweden's Covid response. Embarrassing yes, but also funny.

[Greenmile]

The raw data of deaths per population is pretty pointless when comparing (eg) Sweden’s approach to the first wave of covid with that of the UK. You’d need to factor in stuff like population density, age profile and the tendency or otherwise of a population to follow government guidelines.

Here’s an interesting paper I found which compares the approaches of Sweden, the UK, and Denmark.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9

It includes the following observation...

“Had the UK adopted Swedish policies, deaths would have increased by a factor of between 1.6 and 4“

I suppose some may think that’s a fair price to pay to avoid an economic slump. I don’t.

[milkcrate_mosh]

The raw data of deaths per population is pretty pointless when comparing (eg) Sweden’s approach to the first wave of covid with that of the UK. You’d need to factor in stuff like population density, age profile and the tendency or otherwise of a population to follow government guidelines.

Here’s an interesting paper I found which compares the approaches of Sweden, the UK, and Denmark.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9

It includes the following observation...

“Had the UK adopted Swedish policies, deaths would have increased by a factor of between 1.6 and 4“

I suppose some may think that’s a fair price to pay to avoid an economic slump. I don’t.

But have you factored in that as a result Swedish inflation is only 11.5% rather than our eye-watering 10.7%?

[Rowls]

No, I may have phrased it wrong, detailed stats for the entire period, maybe by month?

Pretty sure that Sweden was being using by people like you all over twitter until it went soaring past us and then it suddenly wasn't

If anybody thought that comparing daily/weekly figures dduring the pandemic was in any way useful then they were wrong.

I had friends tell me that the reason that Omicron wasn't spreading in France (but was rampant in the UK) was because they were masks were mandated in France. They had the daily figures to "prove" it. One week later and suddenly Omicron hit France and the masks had no effect whatsoever on its spread.

The final pandemic figures are in now. The public should be fuming.

There is no correlation between lockdown severity and deaths.
There is no evidence to show that mask wearing helps prevent the spread of the virus.

The lockdowners were wrong. The maskers were wrong.

We were conned. You can see it yourself if you're brave enough to accept the Truth.

[Rowls]

It was a pretty important facet of your 'argument', and you didn't bother your arse to check your facts. I'm not entirely sure why we should bother listening to a word you say now, frankly.

Well there is such thing as the World Economy and that is the one that was shut down for 18 months.

[Lancasterclaret]

If anybody thought that comparing daily/weekly figures dduring the pandemic was in any way useful then they were wrong.

I had friends tell me that the reason that Omicron wasn't spreading in France (but was rampant in the UK) was because they were masks were mandated in France. They had the daily figures to "prove" it. One week later and suddenly Omicron hit France and the masks had no effect whatsoever on its spread.

The final pandemic figures are in now. The public should be fuming.

There is no correlation between lockdown severity and deaths.
There is no evidence to show that mask wearing helps prevent the spread of the virus.

The lockdowners were wrong. The maskers were wrong.

We were conned. You can see it yourself if you're brave enough to accept the Truth.

Give it a break mate, you've gone down that tunnel and I hope that you can find your way out

[Greenmile]

Just a matter of time before Rowls goes all “open your eyes,sheeple” on us.

[Rowls]

It includes the following observation...

“Had the UK adopted Swedish policies, deaths would have increased by a factor of between 1.6 and 4“

I suppose some may think that’s a fair price to pay to avoid an economic slump. I don’t.

I'm going to break a rule and include a reply to you just to point out to others the error in your argument.

You are using "observation" incorrectly. An observation is something you can observe.

What the article is making is a supposition.

[martin_p]

Just a matter of time before Rowls goes all “open your eyes,sheeple” on us.

It’s the logical next step to capitalising ‘truth’.

[martin_p]

I'm going to break a rule and include a reply to you just to point out to others the error in your argument.

You are using "observation" incorrectly. An observation is something you can observe.

What the article is making is a supposition.

Yet your supposition is labelled ‘the Truth’.

[Greenmile]

I'm going to break a rule and include a reply to you just to point out to others the error in your argument.

You are using "observation" incorrectly. An observation is something you can observe.

What the article is making is a supposition.

...and I suppose the following is not supposition, is it?

“There is no correlation between lockdown severity and deaths.
There is no evidence to show that mask wearing helps prevent the spread of the virus.

The lockdowners were wrong. The maskers were wrong.”

You need to lay off the GBNews before you start accusing Keir Starmer of running a pedophile ring from the basement of his local Pizza Hut.

[Rowls]

Give it a break mate, you've gone down that tunnel and I hope that you can find your way out

No, as I've said before I'm not going to stop banging the drum about the lockdown.

It was a massive unprecedented mistake that took away our prosperity, crashed the economy, denied children of their education, gave us sky high inflation, massive fuel price rises, one million extra unemployed, big tax rises, mental health problems, impingements to our civil liberties, denial of basic human rights.

We're due to suffer excess deaths (from non-covid causes) like excess cancer deaths for year and years to come.

The economy will not recover for years and years.

And what did we get for it? Did we at least save lots of lives?

As I've said, the figures are now in: There is NO correlation between lockdown and deaths.

Studies have shown wearing masks does not prevent the spread of the disease.

We were lied to and scared, literally, witless.

Those figures again so anybody can see it: https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

[Rowls]

Yet your supposition is labelled ‘the Truth’.

Here is truth, martin

https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

[Rowls]

The great thing about stats is the ease of manipulation, but when you see

Sweden 204.57 deaths per 100,000
UK 290.57 deaths per 100,00

The UK has a population density 11x greater than Sweden.

Sweden 25p/km2
UK 281p/km2

The denser population makes it easier to transmit
1st Lockdown saved thousand's

Interesting.

You could take the info from the website and chart it next to population density. See if there's any strong correlation.

Go ahead if you like.

As I said - there is no correlation between lockdown and these deaths.

[Swizzlestick]

The reason the public aren't 'fuming' is they can see through charlatans like you a mile off. Bare face liars, who are willing to not only slavishly copy and paste duff stats, but manipulate them too, to fit a political viewpoint. It's embarrassing.

[martin_p]

Here is truth, martin

https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

I’m not doubting the raw data, just that you can draw the conclusions you draw from it.

[martin_p]

No, as I've said before I'm not going to stop banging the drum about the lockdown.

It was a massive unprecedented mistake that took away our prosperity, crashed the economy, denied children of their education, gave us sky high inflation, massive fuel price rises, one million extra unemployed, big tax rises, mental health problems, impingements to our civil liberties, denial of basic human rights.

You can’t seriously believe all that. If you do you can’t have been watching what has been going on in the world other than COVID for the last couple of years.

[Rowls]

The reason the public aren't 'fuming' is they can see through charlatans like you a mile off. Bare face liars, who are willing to not only slavishly copy and paste duff stats, but manipulate them too, to fit a political viewpoint. It's embarrassing.

"Duff stats"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statista

[Greenmile]

No, as I've said before I'm not going to stop banging the drum about the lockdown.

It was a massive unprecedented mistake that took away our prosperity, crashed the economy, denied children of their education, gave us sky high inflation, massive fuel price rises, one million extra unemployed, big tax rises, mental health problems, impingements to our civil liberties, denial of basic human rights.

We're due to suffer excess deaths (from non-covid causes) like excess cancer deaths for year and years to come.

The economy will not recover for years and years.

And what did we get for it? Did we at least save lots of lives?

As I've said, the figures are now in: There is NO correlation between lockdown and deaths.

Studies have shown wearing masks does not prevent the spread of the disease.

We were lied to and scared, literally, witless.

Those figures again so anybody can see it: https://www.statista.com/statistics/111 ... y-country/

You lost - get over it!

[Rowls]

You can’t seriously believe all that. If you do you can’t have been watching what has been going on in the world other than COVID for the last couple of years.

The damage that lockdown caused simply cannot be denied. It's clear as daylight.

The question is, "Was it worth it?"

The data from places who did not have lockdowns, places like Florida, Texas and Sweden show the enormous costs were not worth the price. They strongly suggest the whole thing was utterly pointless.

What price do you put on cancer patients lives?
What price do you put on civil liberties?
What price should we pay to live in a democracy?
What price human rights?
What price our freedom?

[Greenmile]

....The data from places who did not have lockdowns, places like Florida, Texas and Sweden show the enormous costs were not worth the price. They strongly suggest the whole thing was utterly pointless....

You keep saying this. It's a lie.

How long before you get this thread deleted out of embarrassment?

[aggi]

I'm disappointed at the lack of mentions Belarus is getting here.

[ClaretRoob]

Interesting.

You could take the info from the website and chart it next to population density. See if there's any strong correlation.

Go ahead if you like.

As I said - there is no correlation between lockdown and these deaths.

But then you would need to include quality of medical care.
Sweden is comparable to the UK