The Andrew Tate saga

[Swizzlestick]

Tbf Swizzle it sounds like you haven’t seen much of his stuff just the a view edited snippets.

A lot of his stuff is really fair. The majority of his view points are about the benefits of having/being in a family and that western society is breaking up the family unit.

Oh I’ve seen a lot of his stuff. Notably how he thinks women ‘put themselves in a position to be raped’ and how he himself will never get married and believes in open relationships - somewhat at odds with his great defence of the family unit. I think the broad translation of that is women should be subservient to men and men should do what they like. I’m happy to dismiss the rest of his opinions as a result - it’s just bullshit marketing appealing to jocks and incels so he can get them on his Ponzi scheme. There is nothing profound.

[Lancasterclaret]

95% of what Jordan Peterson says is sensible (well, it used to be before he realised where the real money is)

its the 5% that is completely unacceptable that is the issue

[Newcastleclaret93]

95% of what Jordan Peterson says is sensible (well, it used to be before he realised where the real money is)

its the 5% that is completely unacceptable that is the issue

Couldn’t agree more

[Lancasterclaret]

https://twitter.com/MedCrisis/status/16 ... 9383428096

This in short really

[DanH90]

It’s in relation to the rising number of single parent families, people in poverty, children being aborted, hospitals over run etc….

I think there pretty fair comments, the disparity in wealth in this country is just getting wider and wider. As a result the lower end of society is rapidly depreciating.

And what/who does he blame for the depreciation of society? You still haven’t answered that question…I assume (haven’t seen many of his awful views) that he blames all of the political sphere and also probably ‘wokies’?

The man is a total fraud (how much is he actually worth) spreading toxic views to impressionable young men… I am a teacher and there are many young boys at school who seem to hero worship him, it’s scary.

[KRBFC]

Poor Tate, being attacked by “the media” when his only crime is *checks notes* human trafficking and rape.

Why can’t they just leave him alone to kidnap and rape women in peace, eh?

Crimes he hasn't been convicted of, labelling someone a rapist is pretty severe without proof.

[Cooclaret]

Yes, the readers of the Daily Mail, Andrew Tate fans, GB news fans, Tommy Robinson fans etc etc etc

To me, its creaking, but only because the back up that we all rely on from the government is massively underfunded, leading to real issues with health service, police, the roads etc etc

You’re devaluing people’s voice. You have no control how they consume their media, nor should you. Worse, you’re equating a large proportion of the population as ignorant because they choose a media outlet/personality that you personally don’t agree with. That’s a lazy of you.

People aren’t defined as Daily Mail readers, or Tommy Robinson fans.

The problem of all public services in my opinion is seniority, an entitled progression based on time served not ability. There is no consequence to under performing.

[Newcastleclaret93]

And what/who does he blame for the depreciation of society? You still haven’t answered that question…I assume (haven’t seen many of his awful views) that he blames all of the political sphere and also probably ‘wokies’?

The man is a total fraud (how much is he actually worth) spreading toxic views to impressionable young men… I am a teacher and there are many young boys at school who seem to hero worship him, it’s scary.

The same people most people blame. The governments etc…

The interesting question we should be asking is why do so many young men worship him? Perhaps there is an issue that the vast majority are not aware off

[KRBFC]

The woke weirdo snowflakes don't listen to anyone or anything, they just throw the racist sexist homophobic cards around.

I think Tate makes alot of good points when he's not talking about silly things like women being worse drivers than men.

[Lancasterclaret]

You’re devaluing people’s voice. You have no control how they consume their media, nor should you. Worse, you’re equating a large proportion of the population as ignorant because they choose a media outlet/personality that you personally don’t agree with. That’s a lazy of you.

People aren’t defined as Daily Mail readers, or Tommy Robinson fans.

The problem of all public services in my opinion is seniority, an entitled progression based on time served not ability. There is no consequence to under performing.

Why would I want to have control over the media they consume?

I just want that media to have to say whether what they are saying is true or not

It might be lazy to you, but I think people in powerful positions and publications should at least attempt to tell the truth about stuff

[Penwortham_Claret]

I‘ve no strong feeling on what his opinion is however I do have strong feelings about him not being allowed an opinion. Add Tommy Robinson to that also.

Regardless how much people disagree with either of them, we should never have the power to just silence anybody

[Newcastleclaret93]

Why would I want to have control over the media they consume?

I just want that media to have to say whether what they are saying is true or not

It might be lazy to you, but I think people in powerful positions and publications should at least attempt to tell the truth about stuff

Tbf who says they aren’t? It’s just a different narrative than general media.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I‘ve no strong feeling on what his opinion is however I do have strong feelings about him not being allowed an opinion. Add Tommy Robinson to that also.

Regardless how much people disagree with either of them, we should never have the power to just silence anybody

Or block there bank accounts because they have different views.

Scary times

[Lancasterclaret]

My issue is purely that people see people like Tate, Peterson, Robinson and want to be like them

Reading their stuff, fine

Wanting to be such bodies of hate filled bile, not so much

[Newcastleclaret93]

My issue is purely that people see people like Tate, Peterson, Robinson and want to be like them

Reading their stuff, fine

Wanting to be such bodies of hate filled bile, not so much

I get that point, but don’t you think there’s something that needs to be looked into that so many people particularly young people agree with a lot of there views.

[Goalposts]

Ive come to the conclusion that all the social media stuff is a place for all the village idiots of the world to gather and spout their nonsense.

In olden days the village idiot was told to shut up , ostracised or shamed. And thus they kept their idiocy’s to themselves , flat earthers , conspiracy nuts , fascists , etc etc.

Social media allows these idiots to gather in the worlds largest village and talk to other idiots who give credence (like minded idiot)or listen to them (instead of telling them to shut up) agreeing with them , A lot of harm is done by these morons. It doesnt matter that people point out how stupid they are , because another village idiot will pop up to support them. Then you have the grifters that look to profit of the idiots , trump - Tate et-al who also the propagate falsehood and lies.

The gulf in eduction today between those that got one and those that merely attended is wider than at anytime for the last 50 years

[Lancasterclaret]

I get that point, but don’t you think there’s something that needs to be looked into that so many people particularly young people agree with a lot of there views.

You'll have show me the evidence that "so many people" agree with their views

[Swizzlestick]

Fwiw I don’t actually think he has a lot of arch devotees - he’ll have a good few, mainly like those in this thread, who are happy to pick and choose his opinions that broadly fall into a kind of nationalistic, populist area - we’re losing our country, that kind of shite. I’m ok with not doing that.

Many more will probably just find a him a curio who’s good at PR (until now that is). Yeah, they’ll be some who worship at his feet, actually pay money for this ludicrous Hustlers University thing and share everything he posts, but they have underlying issues anyway. I mentioned incels and jocks before and this is who he targets - the former due to their hatred of women and the latter who look up to an alpha male role model (there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that but there’s a fine line between being an alpha male and a misogynistic bellend, and Tatey falls on the wrong side of that).

Maybe this humiliation by a 19 year old girl will be the making of him, maybe not.

[Penwortham_Claret]

My issue is purely that people see people like Tate, Peterson, Robinson and want to be like them

Reading their stuff, fine

Wanting to be such bodies of hate filled bile, not so much

All 3 of those talk about valid issues but stupidly wrap them up in stupid hate filled nonsense presumably in an attempt to be relevant.

If people can’t puck out the relevant parts and disregard the ridiculous parts, that suggests that the problem is society, not these 3 guys, which is a much more worrying thought

[Lancasterclaret]

Ive come to the conclusion that all the social media stuff is a place for all the village idiots of the world to gather and spout their nonsense.

In olden days the village idiot was told to shut up , ostracised or shamed. And thus they kept their idiocy’s to themselves , flat earthers , conspiracy nuts , fascists , etc etc.

Social media allows these idiots to gather in the worlds largest village and talk to other idiots who give credence (like minded idiot)or listen to them (instead of telling them to shut up) agreeing with them , A lot of harm is done by these morons. It doesnt matter that people point out how stupid they are , because another village idiot will pop up to support them. Then you have the grifters that look to profit of the idiots , trump - Tate et-al who also the propagate falsehood and lies.

The gulf in eduction today between those that got one and those that merely attended is wider than at anytime for the last 50 years

The last line is so true

People now revel in not being educated, and take pride in "doing their own research"

"Doing your own research" would be perfectly fine, but not if you are researching only what you want to believe, and the likes of Peterson, Robinson, Tate fill that unfortunately

[Newcastleclaret93]

You'll have show me the evidence that "so many people" agree with their views

Well just look at there followers for a start

[Penwortham_Claret]

"Doing your own research" would be perfectly fine, but not if you are researching only what you want to believe, and the likes of Peterson, Robinson, Tate fill that unfortunately

And just in case, we will take away their views so that your research can only give you the outcome we want you to get?

[Swizzlestick]

All 3 of those talk about valid issues but stupidly wrap them up in stupid hate filled nonsense presumably in an attempt to be relevant.

If people can’t puck out the relevant parts and disregard the ridiculous parts, that suggests that the problem is society, not these 3 guys, which is a much more worrying thought

Why should people have to ‘pick out the relevant parts’? Why can’t they just not be a dick?

If somebody tries to victim blame a woman for being raped, even partially, like Tate has done in the past, I’m not listening to a single further thing he has to say.

[Lancasterclaret]

Well just look at there followers for a start

Social media is not real life though

If you look at the ratio of likes and retweets from the recent burn by Greta to Tate, its was ridiculous just how little support for him there was compared to Greta

[Lancasterclaret]

And just in case, we will take away their views so that your research can only give you the outcome we want you to get?

If you want to believe that completely unrestricted free speech has no effects on society, then welcome to the board Elon and I hope your Tesla share price gets better soon

[Swizzlestick]

Social media is not real life though

If you look at the ratio of likes and retweets from the recent burn by Greta to Tate, its was ridiculous just how little support for him there was compared to Greta

Yep, this is the other key point - in Andrew Tate world, Greta Thunberg is the nemesis, a hate figure to be humiliated. Yet the reality is, a lot of of people like and support her outside of the carefully curated echo chamber. This always seems to shock them. Musk is finding this out too.

[Penwortham_Claret]

If somebody tries to victim blame a woman for being raped, even partially, like Tate has done in the past, I’m not listening to a single further thing he has to say.

He simply didn’t do that, I’ve listened to the full conversation and it was nothing like saying it was their fault.

So much of what he says is disgusting, I’ve have 3 daughters and the way he thinks about how women should be treat scares me should there be more guys who think the same way but statements like the above based purely on an article you may have read in the daily mail are also particularly worrying for the future of our society.

I encourage you to listen to his explanation on the ‘rape victim blaming’ and make your own opinion on if what he said was wrong

[Billy Balfour]

How much of a lowlife mug do you have to be to defend or look up to a scumbag like this Tate grifter? And yes, 'scumbag' can be thrown around all too easily these days, however, this guy is by far and away the real deal when it comes to scumbags.

[Penwortham_Claret]

If you want to believe that completely unrestricted free speech has no effects on society, then welcome to the board Elon and I hope your Tesla share price gets better soon

Of course it does what what has a bigger negative effect on society is the policing of free speech by the unelected who potentially have their own agendas

[GodIsADeeJay81]

He simply didn’t do that, I’ve listened to the full conversation and it was nothing like saying it was their fault.

So much of what he says is disgusting, I’ve have 3 daughters and the way he thinks about how women should be treat scares me should there be more guys who think the same way but statements like the above based purely on an article you may have read in the daily mail are also particularly worrying for the future of our society.

I encourage you to listen to his explanation on the ‘rape victim blaming’ and make your own opinion on if what he said was wrong

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/19/big-brot ... s-7011756/

He doesn't look very clever in this article

[Lancasterclaret]

Of course it does what what has a bigger negative effect on society is the policing of free speech by the unelected who potentially have their own agendas

I'm not saying its simple or that I even agree with it, but at what stage do you stop governments, newspapers, media personalities from saying whatever they want without sanction?

History teaches us that is a very bad road to go down, and if we have to have some curbs on free speech (ala the Tommy Robinsons of this world) then its not going to give me sleepless nights

[RicardoMontalban]

You say the two are inexplicably linked here.

Being inexplicably linked (I think you mean intrinsically) does not mean they are the same thing. But they are linked.

How the world approaches the climate emergency will impact on the resources crises. And vice versa.

[Penwortham_Claret]

I can’t be arsed searching for the interview but in a nutshell the comment related back to his alpha male narrative about a guy protecting his woman. He was suggesting that if he walks down the road in a rough area with £1m in his hand it wouldn’t be right to get robbed but he had made a poor decision which led to it. He linked this women getting drunk and wandering around alone then getting attacked. Equally being raped isn’t right but they are in a situation where being attacked is more likely.

He went on to say men are wrong to attack women but telling them not to isn’t working so telling women to make better choices would reduce the number of attacks in the same way if he doesn’t wander around with cash in his hand the chances of him being robbed are reduced significantly

[Penwortham_Claret]

I'm not saying its simple or that I even agree with it, but at what stage do you stop governments, newspapers, media personalities from saying whatever they want without sanction?

History teaches us that is a very bad road to go down, and if we have to have some curbs on free speech (ala the Tommy Robinsons of this world) then its not going to give me sleepless nights

I don’t disagree with this, I probably just feel that we need a better way of managing it that is transparent to avoid it being abused

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I can’t be arsed searching for the interview but in a nutshell the comment related back to his alpha male narrative about a guy protecting his woman. He was suggesting that if he walks down the road in a rough area with £1m in his hand it wouldn’t be right to get robbed but he had made a poor decision which led to it. He linked this women getting drunk and wandering around alone then getting attacked. Equally being raped isn’t right but they are in a situation where being attacked is more likely.

He went on to say men are wrong to attack women but telling them not to isn’t working so telling women to make better choices would reduce the number of attacks in the same way if he doesn’t wander around with cash in his hand the chances of him being robbed are reduced significantly

So he wants to make it all about the women's choices and not put any responsibility on to the men and their choices.

Absolute and utter ******** from a complete prick if you ask me.
Clearly he had a crap upbringing, because I wouldn't stand for my two boys treating women like garbage and they know it

Tate is a toss bag and he needs to be taught a lesson

[SammyBoy]

I preferred the original Andy Tate tbh.

[Newcastleclaret93]

So he wants to make it all about the women's choices and not put any responsibility on to the men and their choices.

Absolute and utter ******** from a complete prick if you ask me.
Clearly he had a crap upbringing, because I wouldn't stand for my two boys treating women like garbage and they know it

Tate is a toss bag and he needs to be taught a lesson

You have taken that out of context.

He literally says it shouldn’t happen and says that people that do such atrocities are weak men. However he says that similar to getting robbed people should avoid getting themselves in that situation.

[Penwortham_Claret]

So he wants to make it all about the women's choices and not put any responsibility on to the men and their choices.

Absolute and utter ******** from a complete prick if you ask me.
Clearly he had a crap upbringing, because I wouldn't stand for my two boys treating women like garbage and they know it

Tate is a toss bag and he needs to be taught a lesson

Nope, completely puts its on the men but suggests that telling the men to be better isn’t working so another thing we could try is getting the woman to make better choices in the same way we tell motorists to not leave valuables on show because even though we tell people not to break into cars they still do.

[Swizzlestick]

You have taken that out of context.

He literally says it shouldn’t happen and says that people that do such atrocities are weak men. However he says that similar to getting robbed people should avoid getting themselves in that situation.

If you can’t see this as victim blaming, I’m done.

[Newcastleclaret93]

If you can’t see this as victim blaming, I’m done.

He’s not blaming the victim he’s just saying people should try there best to avoid situations like that.

[Penwortham_Claret]

If you can’t see this as victim blaming, I’m done.

We victim blame in every crime then. Lock your doors, hide your valuables, don’t sit in the middle of the home crowd at Millwall with your Burnley shirt on.

The above is taking as good advise but Tate is victim shaming as that fits the narrative

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You have taken that out of context.

He literally says it shouldn’t happen and says that people that do such atrocities are weak men. However he says that similar to getting robbed people should avoid getting themselves in that situation.

He's putting it onto the women quite simply.
He's a complete arse and that you're defending what he's saying is a huge problem that you cannot see.

[Penwortham_Claret]

We victim blame in every crime then. Lock your doors, hide your valuables, don’t sit in the middle of the home crowd at Millwall with your Burnley shirt on.

The above is taking as good advise but Tate is victim shaming as that fits the narrative

Apologies for the typos, too late to edit once I noticed

[Penwortham_Claret]

He's putting it onto the women quite simply.
He's a complete arse and that you're defending what he's saying is a huge problem that you cannot see.

Sadly, you are the problem but just can’t see it

[Newcastleclaret93]

He's putting it onto the women quite simply.
He's a complete arse and that you're defending what he's saying is a huge problem that you cannot see.

I just don’t get this view DJ?

How can advising not just women but men as well to not go out alone in dodgy areas be perceived as a bad thing?

[Swizzlestick]

We victim blame in every crime then. Lock your doors, hide your valuables, don’t sit in the middle of the home crowd at Millwall with your Burnley shirt on.

The above is taking as good advise but Tate is victim shaming as that fits the narrative

The entire point is that we DON’T victim blame in every crime. We blame the perpetrator. Here, rather than saying ‘don’t rape a woman’, it’s somehow being positioned as don’t give the man the opportunity to rape you. Do you not realise how utterly ludicrous this is? I mean, comparing a woman walking down a street with a handling a million pounds is so ridiculous, I can’t actually believe he said it.

Anyway, I’ve said enough about him, folk can make their own mind up.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I just don’t get this view DJ?

How can advising not just women but men as well to not go out alone in dodgy areas be perceived as a bad thing?

Of course you don't get it, because you don't want the blame on men.

Clearly you don't have kids

[Penwortham_Claret]

I simply can’t see how it’s any different to any other crime prevention advice or what we all tell our daughters every weekend.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Sadly, you are the problem but just can’t see it

Yeah of course it's me, because I don't like the bloke who's blaming women and wanting the blame shifting away from the men.

How silly of me to think that's wrong....

[Newcastleclaret93]

The entire point is that we DON’T victim blame in every crime. We blame the perpetrator. Here, rather than saying ‘don’t rape a woman’, it’s somehow being positioned as don’t give the man the opportunity to rape you. Do you not realise how utterly ludicrous this is? I mean, comparing a woman walking down a street with a handling a million pounds is so ridiculous, I can’t actually believe he said it.

Anyway, I’ve said enough about him, folk can make their own mind up.

That’s like saying don’t murder a person. But guess what people have been murdering people since day 1 and they will continue to murder purple until the end of time.