Gyokeres

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Brighton were paying silly money to someone judging by the debts they were building up when down here.
Same with Brentford to a lesser degree.

[Big Vinny K]

When one of the “smaller” teams are doing well they are invariably lauded for their transfer policy.
Brighton have had without doubt a couple of fantastic profit made on player sales.
But this is a club who on a regular basis lose £50m plus a year and whose owner has put the best part of half a billion into the club.
That’s a lot of money for a club whose record in the last decade is pretty similar to Burnley.

[Spijed]

Brighton were paying silly money to someone judging by the debts they were building up when down here.
Same with Brentford to a lesser degree.

Aren't Brighton £300 million in debt to Tony Bloom as well?

[Firthy]

Pretty sure this ship has sailed with the asking price and Premier teams being interested in him. On his showing at the Turf he's not worth 8 figures. I'd rather take a punt on Obefami for 3m if we can get him for that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Aren't Brighton £300 million in debt to Tony Bloom as well?

I think it's closer to £400 million now, it was £360 million the last time I saw anything last year.

[Devils_Advocate]

Since getting to the Premier League around 5.5 years ago Brighton have a net spend of around £110m which is about £20m per year and considering the squad the have put together and the improvements they have made I think thats pretty good value for money

[NottsClaret]

Since getting to the Premier League around 5.5 years ago Brighton have a net spend of around £110m which is about £20m per year and considering the squad the have put together and the improvements they have made I think thats pretty good value for money

This is why 'net spend' is only for internet squabbles with Liverpool fans. It's meaningless. Brighton lose about £50m a year, so if their net spend on transfers is only £20m per season and they're coining in £120m a year off the Premier League.. it kind of suggests their wage bill is out of control.

They're just another club with a sugar daddy who everyone admires for being 'well run', when really it's a billionaire masking a failing business.

[fatboy47]

This is why 'net spend' is only for internet squabbles with Liverpool fans. It's meaningless. Brighton lose about £50m a year, so if their net spend on transfers is only £20m per season and they're coining in £120m a year off the Premier League.. it kind of suggests their wage bill is out of control.

They're just another club with a sugar daddy who everyone admires for being 'well run', when really it's a billionaire masking a failing business.

Yep. This.

[Devils_Advocate]

This is why 'net spend' is only for internet squabbles with Liverpool fans. It's meaningless. Brighton lose about £50m a year, so if their net spend on transfers is only £20m per season and they're coining in £120m a year off the Premier League.. it kind of suggests their wage bill is out of control.

They're just another club with a sugar daddy who everyone admires for being 'well run', when really it's a billionaire masking a failing business.

Thats starting to change though as they invested a lot of money up front and the last few years are starting to reap the rewards. But for Covid in 20/21their loss would have reduced from £67m to around £27m and Id put money that the next set of accounts show them turning a profit and will probably continue to do so for the year after.

Before Potter came in they did throw some money away but they also invested heavily in younger promising player who have started to come good and since Potter came in they have spent very wisely both on transfers and wages and from the sales they made they will be in profit.

[RVclaret]

Brighton’s starting XI that beat Liverpool 3-0 cost

Sanchez £Nil
Estupian £14m
Dunk £Nil
Colwill £Nil (loan)
Groß £3m
Mac Allister £7m
Lallana £Nil
March £10k
Caicedo £4.5m
Mitoma £2.5m
Ferguson £Nil

Total £31.01m

[Rick_Muller]

Brighton’s starting XI that beat Liverpool 3-0 cost

Sanchez £Nil
Estupian £14m
Dunk £Nil
Colwill £Nil (loan)
Groß £3m
Mac Allister £7m
Lallana £Nil
March £10k
Caicedo £4.5m
Mitoma £2.5m
Ferguson £Nil

Total £31.01m

or in other terms a 1.2 x Chris Wood (approximately)

[Carwin261]

Brighton’s starting XI that beat Liverpool 3-0 cost

Sanchez £Nil
Estupian £14m
Dunk £Nil
Colwill £Nil (loan)
Groß £3m
Mac Allister £7m
Lallana £Nil
March £10k
Caicedo £4.5m
Mitoma £2.5m
Ferguson £Nil
Is that not £ 41m ?
Total £31.01m

[Carwin261]

Brighton’s starting XI that beat Liverpool 3-0 cost

Sanchez £Nil
Estupian £14m
Dunk £Nil
Colwill £Nil (loan)
Groß £3m
Mac Allister £7m
Lallana £Nil
March £10k
Caicedo £4.5m
Mitoma £2.5m
Ferguson £Nil

Total £31.01m

Isn’t that £41m ?

[RVclaret]

Isn’t that £41m ?

No

[RicardoMontalban]

Isn’t that £41m ?

Are you misreading March as £10m?

[houseboy]

I get it to 38. That’s me just adding up the numbers posted.

[martin_p]

I get it to 38. That’s me just adding up the numbers posted.

Back to school!

[Spijed]

I think it's closer to £400 million now, it was £360 million the last time I saw anything last year.

This is why 'net spend' is only for internet squabbles with Liverpool fans. It's meaningless. Brighton lose about £50m a year, so if their net spend on transfers is only £20m per season and they're coining in £120m a year off the Premier League.. it kind of suggests their wage bill is out of control.

They're just another club with a sugar daddy who everyone admires for being 'well run', when really it's a billionaire masking a failing business.

Seems the debt is now around £460 million.

It's hard for us to compete when clubs have the best part of an additional half a billion quid to play with.

[Big Vinny K]

Brighton’s starting XI that beat Liverpool 3-0 cost

Sanchez £Nil
Estupian £14m
Dunk £Nil
Colwill £Nil (loan)
Groß £3m
Mac Allister £7m
Lallana £Nil
March £10k
Caicedo £4.5m
Mitoma £2.5m
Ferguson £Nil

Total £31.01m

Kind of irrelevant - they could play the cleaner and the groundsman if they choose to.
What is relevant is their finances, wage bill, debt and how much they have been bank rolled by Bloom. Completely different league financially to Burnley.
All that starting line does prove is that they need not of spent the money they have to get a decent starting eleven.

[RVclaret]

Kind of irrelevant - they could play the cleaner and the groundsman if they choose to.
What is relevant is their finances, wage bill, debt and how much they have been bank rolled by Bloom. Completely different league financially to Burnley.
All that starting line does prove is that they need not of spent the money they have to get a decent starting eleven.

Yeah, agree! That’s kind of what the point is, getting managerial appointments right, along with good scouting/recruitment, is key and can allow you to be competitive in the PL without billionaire owners.

[Chester Perry]

Kind of irrelevant - they could play the cleaner and the groundsman if they choose to.
What is relevant is their finances, wage bill, debt and how much they have been bank rolled by Bloom. Completely different league financially to Burnley.
All that starting line does prove is that they need not of spent the money they have to get a decent starting eleven.

around half the money was spent on the journey to the Premier League (which includes much of the physical infra structure) and much of the rest was on getting a foothold and the 'background brains' infrastructure together with the cost of covering Covid impacts- since the reset after the foothold was gained much has been self financing - though how long they can keep going while being gutted alive by the wealthier clubs (at least two more players are being targeted this window) is just guesswork. Will the cost of getting to this position ever be recovered? only if Bloom sells would be my guess and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Our club has set it's stall out to follow a similar path, but it has none of the legacy data tools of Bloom from his prime Betting business, nor the cash to develop the infrastructure at Brighton (or indeed Brentford). Consequently we appear to have put all our eggs in the Kompany basket - which has so far proven to be really exciting, but likely requires a significant churn of players annually to fund. Whether we have the time to pull together all the necessary background infrastructure independent of Kompany. will go in some say to determine how we get on when he and his team are inevitably enticed to go elsewhere if this level of progress is maintained.

[Spijed]

around half the money was spent on the journey to the Premier League (which includes much of the physical infra structure) and much of the rest was on getting a foothold and the 'background brains' infrastructure together with the cost of covering Covid impacts- since the reset after the foothold was gained much has been self financing - though how long they can keep going while being gutted alive by the wealthier clubs (at least two more players are being targeted this window) is just guesswork. Will the cost of getting to this position ever be recovered? only if Bloom sells would be my guess and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Our club has set it's stall out to follow a similar path, but it has none of the legacy data tools of Bloom from his prime Betting business, nor the cash to develop the infrastructure at Brighton (or indeed Brentford). Consequently we appear to have put all our eggs in the Kompany basket - which has so far proven to be really exciting, but likely requires a significant churn of players annually to fund. Whether we have the time to pull together all the necessary background infrastructure independent of Kompany. will go in some say to determine how we get on when he and his team are inevitably enticed to go elsewhere if this level of progress is maintained.

And therein we have far less margin for error than either Brighton or Brentford when it comes to identifying and buying players. If one doesn't work out for those clubs it can easily be written off without any financial consequences. Less so for us.

[Carwin261]

Are you misreading March as £10m?

Yes,( I’ll have to go on the thick table) as Peter Kay would say.

[elwaclaret]

around half the money was spent on the journey to the Premier League (which includes much of the physical infra structure) and much of the rest was on getting a foothold and the 'background brains' infrastructure together with the cost of covering Covid impacts- since the reset after the foothold was gained much has been self financing - though how long they can keep going while being gutted alive by the wealthier clubs (at least two more players are being targeted this window) is just guesswork. Will the cost of getting to this position ever be recovered? only if Bloom sells would be my guess and I do not see that happening anytime soon.

Our club has set it's stall out to follow a similar path, but it has none of the legacy data tools of Bloom from his prime Betting business, nor the cash to develop the infrastructure at Brighton (or indeed Brentford). Consequently we appear to have put all our eggs in the Kompany basket - which has so far proven to be really exciting, but likely requires a significant churn of players annually to fund. Whether we have the time to pull together all the necessary background infrastructure independent of Kompany. will go in some say to determine how we get on when he and his team are inevitably enticed to go elsewhere if this level of progress is maintained.

With respect, do we know that Burnley has not been developing an independent structure due to Kompany’s input? I cannot see VK getting involved much past a chat or two with those involved in bringing players in… which means those around him working for the club are privy to how he is identifying these players and what switches are needed to get them signed (even if it is the pull of VK). I’d expect the scouting network to be vastly bigger than under the previous manager.

[Chester Perry]

With respect, do we know that Burnley has not been developing an independent structure due to Kompany’s input? I cannot see VK getting involved much past a chat or two with those involved in bringing players in… which means those around him working for the club are privy to how he is identifying these players and what switches are needed to get them signed (even if it is the pull of VK). I’d expect the scouting network to be vastly bigger than under the previous manager.

we have been - and have been for a fair number of years - new owners have changed it a lot

the key is that the the models used at Brighton were first developed around 20+ years ago and have been on a refinement process ever since - Brentford's owner wrote Blooms first models and then left and created his own similar business - his models have been in the process of refinement within club football for around a decade

Clubs are now competing with hedge funds for data analysts/modellers and recruit PHd's in Chemistry and Physics because they tend to be the best modellers, given that is what they have spent their academic life doing - salaries are in the £100'sk and anyone who shows talent at smaller clubs is regularly poached - we have had a few go to clubs like Liverpool in the past.

In some ways this explains the keeness of Pace to invest in start-ups like AiScout and PlayerLens though they have no significant shareholding in either - it is also why a number of clubs are trying to build up their own side businesses in tech (though most of that is media focussed). Of course this kind of data manipulation offers great competitive advantage so many will not want to share.

There are plenty of Consultancy operations out there doing similar work at multiple clubs - though they will say that they are doing different tasks at each club based on what each club is looking for - what that does do is give them a broader overall understanding of how to manipulate data.

In the end, each club has to have a defined strategy which it must be fully aligned and committed to, it must believe in it's plan long term and that includes the time they have to replace key personnel should they leave, The rest since Sean Dyche's exit is fine - it is new ownership after all - but going forward it has to be a more evolutionary path.

[houseboy]

Back to school!

Back to Specsavers. Missed the 3 million.

[Clive 1960]

I still think when we get promoted we will be open to new investment as it's going to be hard to compete in the premiership and we can't keep relying on Vinny to pull rabbits out of the hat like he's done this season .

[Foshiznik]

I still think when we get promoted we will be open to new investment as it's going to be hard to compete in the premiership and we can't keep relying on Vinny to pull rabbits out of the hat like he's done this season .

It’s also a lot easier (although admittedly still difficult) to find a championship level stand out signing than a premier league version of the likes of Benson/Zahoury

[fatboy47]

When you're 16 points clear for automatic promotion you've gotta work much harder to find negatives.

Stick at it lads.

[Chester Perry]

I still think when we get promoted we will be open to new investment as it's going to be hard to compete in the premiership and we can't keep relying on Vinny to pull rabbits out of the hat like he's done this season .

We have been open to new investment for decades

Getting such new investment is a bit more tricky history suggests

There is no doubt that promotion along with the new approach on and off the pitch would make as more attractive proposition, but hard scrutiny from non-emotionally attached investors (who will have to search hard for the returns they are usually looking for) has not ever been kind to us.

The recent stories of QSI (the owners of PSG) looking for a Premier League club to invest in as part of a multi-cllub model - under UEFA rules they can have a 25% investment shareholding - would make a club like ours a more suitable offering for such farm operation than the likes of Spurs which has been touted in the press. Though I think they would want a bigger club, just not big 7, with a bigger catchment and in an area where lots of parralel investment in other sectors can occur - which makes clubs like Everton, Leeds, Southampton - even clubs like Bristol City, Cardiff and Plymouth potentially more attractive

NB - I regard the multi-club model as the most dangerous development in the game, and have regularly bemoaned FIFA's and UEFA's approach to the issue. All the while acknowledging the absolute sense of it from a business perspective - the game used to regulate against such dangerous developments now it's authorities just sit idly by and seek the financial scraps that are passed their way.

The words of William McGregor - founder of the football league - still ring true
"Beware the clever, sharp men who are creeping into the game"

[Clive 1960]

We have been open to new investment for decades

Getting such new investment is a bit more tricky history suggests

There is no doubt that promotion along with the new approach on and off the pitch would make as more attractive proposition, but hard scrutiny from non-emotionally attached investors (who will have to search hard for the returns they are usually looking for) has not ever been kind to us.

The recent stories of QSI (the owners of PSG) looking for a Premier League club to invest in as part of a multi-cllub model - under UEFA rules they can have a 25% investment shareholding - would make a club like ours a more suitable offering for such farm operation than the likes of Spurs which has been touted in the press. Though I think they would want a bigger club, just not big 7, with a bigger catchment and in an area where lots of parralel investment in other sectors can occur - which makes clubs like Everton, Leeds, Southampton - even clubs like Bristol City, Cardiff and Plymouth potentially more attractive

NB - I regard the multi-club model as the most dangerous development in the game, and have regularly bemoaned FIFA's and UEFA's approach to the issue. All the while acknowledging the absolute sense of it from a business perspective - the game used to regulate against such dangerous developments now it's authorities just sit idly by and seek the financial scraps that are passed their way.

The words of William McGregor - founder of the football league - still ring true
"Beware the clever, sharp men who are creeping into the game"

I still feel the investment will come from China if the guy who knows Pace is still interested like he was before the Norwich game away he attended.

[clarethomer]

When you're 16 points clear for automatic promotion you've gotta work much harder to find negatives.

Stick at it lads.

I have just been reading last page thinking something was going on, a development perhaps..

Nope, it's just left me in a state of "why do we bother even playing - success just brings eventual disappointment and inevitability that we are at some point going to be doomed"

May as well give up ha ha.

[Chester Perry]

I still feel the investment will come from China if the guy who knows Pace is still interested like he was before the Norwich game away he attended.

Chinese investment in European football has only been going on way in the last 4 years and that is out of it - that is what the Chinese government wants - apart from the Fosun interest in Switzerland there is no chines controlled in Europe's major leagues outside of England where there is still the investments in the Midlands but the only group not looking to sell at the moment is Fosun at Wolves - but even they are actively seeking an investment partner.

Both West Brom and Birmingham City are up for sale - and both owner groups would have been long gone if they could have recouped their monies - saving face is a huge issue for these groups. Southampton's owner finally sold up this time last year (after trying to sell the club for almost 4 years) and even he had to swallow a 20%+ loss in cash terms

The financial situation in China has been hugely depressed regarding overseas investment in Football, since before Covid - 3 years of lockdowns has really only exacerbated that - many of the big conglomerates have been saved by varies levels of State intervention/financial assistance that has seen various government bodies take stakes in them. The group that owns West Brom is one such example.

[1882Clarets1882]

Gyokeres. Is he coming or what ?

[Chester Perry]

Gyokeres. Is he coming or what ?

probably not - at least in this window

[clive40golf]

Gyokeres. Is he coming or what ?

Not really sure! I think it has something to do with the financial state of Brighton, Liverpool and China. Also if we’re following the financial model of Brentford, Brighton (again) . The state of the pound ect ect.

IMO I think he’d be a great addition to this squad.

[1882Clarets1882]

Cheers lads.