Transfer embargo

[HiThere]

surprisingly, Sheffield Utd fans are taking a far more level headed view of our embargo than we seem to be. quite funny too
https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/bur ... rgo.94589/

Having a chuckle with my morning brew over some of these. Thanks for posting.

Any chance they will get a 20-points deduction?

Nicely delayed to get embargoed after the transfer window closes. Not like our muppets.

Their embargo isn’t as good as ours. We had one first & it’s a superior one. Burnley’s embargo is ****.

[Cooclaret]

Where has this obsession with linking criticism of ALK to a BB postcode come from? Garlick and John B were from BB postcodes and milked the club for everything they could get. My dislike of how the takeover happened and the leveraged buy out sits just as much at their door as it does ALK.

I literally couldn't care less where the owners are from. How they run and look after my club is the only thing I care about.

And before some bright spark chirps up to say it's their business, we fans don't need to know - we do. It might be their club as far as Companies House is concerned, but it was our club before ALK and it'll be ours long after they've made their money and moved on.

Which part of the club or business do you own?

[SalisburyClaret]

Bean counters have messed up. Move along. Nothing to see here

[Tall Paul]

We don't know. This EFL rule makes it clear that group accounts should also be provided (and filed on time):

16.3 Each Club shall submit their Annual Accounts (and those of any Group of which it is a member) to the registrar of companies (appointed in accordance with section 1060 of the 2006 Act) in accordance with the time limits prescribed by the 2006 Act.

So it may be that those accounts have no relevance or it may be that this has contributed. Again, we don't know.

I doubt those companies will be required to file group accounts, so don't think the EFL regulations covers them.

[Rileybobs]

Incredible levels of dismissiveness and even abuse for people who are showing nothing but a little concern about this. It's almost cultist behaviour.

[Big Vinny K]

We knew we were in the EFL, though weren’t officially an EFL club until the annual meeting in June. That covers around 3 weeks of the 156 weeks FFP review so the vast majority isn’t related to time in the EFL is my point.

Regarding administration, by that I mean the simple process of running the business, meeting deadlines etc. I have not seen anybody mention us actually going into Administration if that’s what you mean? I haven’t read the whole 7 pages on this thread though.

No I’m saying people are putting it down to an admin issue and saying that was in the club statement - which it wasn’t

[Socrates]

Which part of the club or business do you own?

I’m still a shareholder in the club and I’d quite like to see the accounts.

I kept my shares just to see how things played out. I was fortunate that I didn’t need the money and the shares were a gift to me.

They don’t own all the club.

[claretspice]

If this is sorted next month as the club suggest, and so the embargo is long since lifted by the end of the season, this will be even less well remembered than the Embargo we were under 14 years ago as we first won promotion.

But, particularly taken collectively with the various other late filing and the general opacity of our structure, it's a warning sign. One flashing light on a big dashboard, but a warning sign to our medium term health nonetheless. It deserves scrutiny and tough questions from the media and all of our attention, just to make sure it is merely an administrative cock up. Anyone who isn't a little concerned isn't paying attention to the warning lights on the dashboard.

[RVclaret]

No I’m saying people are putting it down to an admin issue and saying that was in the club statement - which it wasn’t

Being late filing accounts is an admin issue, isn't it? How would you describe it? It's not a financial issue which others have suggested (going off the statement).

[agreenwood]

Incredible levels of dismissiveness and even abuse for people who are showing nothing but a little concern about this. It's almost cultist behaviour.

Agreed. I quite like Pace from what I’ve seen and I think he’s made some fantastic football decisions in the past 12 months, but ultimately he heads up a group which used the clubs own money to buy the club and now we’ve been sanctioned by the EFL for late filing of accounts.

It’s ok to acknowledge some of the good things he’s done, whilst being cautious about trusting that all is well on the financial side of the club.

[FCBurnley]

When things appear to be too good to be true they usually are

[lancastrian]

The question is why change the auditors so late in the financial year?
Is it because the previous auditors refused to sign off on the accounts?
Part of Auditor's job is to report to the shareholders whether the accounts give a true position on the financial state of the company. In any case, a change of Auditor has to be passed by a resolution at an Annual General meeting.

[Big Vinny K]

Being late filing accounts is an admin issue, isn't it? How would you describe it? It's not a financial issue which others have suggested (going off the statement).

Many things could be classed as an “admin issue” then !!

In the generic use of the term it’s used for something not that important. Do you think the EFL would put a transfer embargo on a club for an insignificant issue ?

But as said the club have not said anything about it being an admin issue.

The issue is why they have missed the deadline. It’s not like this has happened often to other clubs - not that I’m aware of anyway.

[agreenwood]

Being late filing accounts is an admin issue, isn't it? How would you describe it? It's not a financial issue which others have suggested (going off the statement).

However you term it, it has the potential to become a financial issue. The EFL can’t assess our finances in line with their rules if we don’t file the accounts.

[BobSykes]

The question is why change the auditors so late in the financial year?
Is it because the previous auditors refused to sign off on the accounts?
Part of Auditor's job is to report to the shareholders whether the accounts give a true position on the financial state of the company. In any case, a change of Auditor has to be passed by a resolution at an Annual General meeting.

This.

In my years working in the corporate sphere, I'd say 9 times out of 10 an unplanned change to auditors is because of the old auditors refusing to sign off the accounts, or sign off in the manner in which the company wants them prepared.

This is a worry for sure.

[RVclaret]

However you term it, it has the potential to become a financial issue. The EFL can’t assess our finances in line with their rules if we don’t file the accounts.

Possibly - although as our statement reads, we have sent them the draft accounts and info needed, pending the fully audited version 'swiftly'.

Many things could be classed as an “admin issue” then !!

In the generic use of the term it’s used for something not that important. Do you think the EFL would put a transfer embargo on a club for an insignificant issue ?

But as said the club have not said anything about it being an admin issue.

The issue is why they have missed the deadline. It’s not like this has happened often to other clubs - not that I’m aware of anyway.

I just did a super quick google search which returned a couple... Crystal Palace and Bolton

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-accounts

I also noted this report from Feb 28th which suggested up to 16 PL clubs were facing a last minute rush to file accounts on the deadline day:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/live ... -revealed/

Not sure of any relevance with us here but interesting nonetheless.

[FeedTheArf]

Which part of the club or business do you own?

I thought my post was clear enough, but obviously not.

[CaptJohn]

I’m still a shareholder in the club and I’d quite like to see the accounts.

I kept my shares just to see how things played out. I was fortunate that I didn’t need the money and the shares were a gift to me.

They don’t own all the club.

So am I Socrates and I'm a tad concerned at this development. Fiscal prudence is something I have always practiced and is something I expect from a company, no matter the size.

[redcloud203]

the EFL rules clearly state when the audited accounts were required by so to miss the deadline is totally down to the clubs board and the overall group boards poor stewardship .

I have no objection to the change of auditors - this happens regularly when companies are taken over - but not planning to have the full audits completed in time for filing within the timescale set out is very poor indeed . To issue a release blaming it on new auditors is a pure deflection tactic .

not good enough ALK .-must do better - in fact quite pathetic, and casts doubt on their overall stewardship of the club .

[Big Vinny K]

Possibly - although as our statement reads, we have sent them the draft accounts and info needed, pending the fully audited version 'swiftly'.


I just did a super quick google search which returned a couple... Crystal Palace and Bolton

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-accounts

I also noted this report from Feb 28th which suggested up to 16 PL clubs were facing a last minute rush to file accounts on the deadline day:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/live ... -revealed/

Not sure of any relevance with us here but interesting nonetheless.

That statement does not suggest it’s an admin issue at all though. The very fact that they are draft accounts evidences that they are simply not ready. An admin issue would be forgetting to press send on the 1st of March and everyone thinking they have gone !!

Bolton might not be the best example to use !

[Nonayforever]

Bean counters have messed up. Move along. Nothing to see here

Not really the case. Bean counters done their job, directors may not quite like what they see so possibly try to change it but auditors sit on their hands so a search to maybe find someone who won't sit on their hands.
Not professional.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

Giving the board the benefit of the doubt currently due to solid work with the on field activities. They have been very astute in those regards.

I have no particular ability in this area but it feels a tad strange to be swapping auditors mid-way through the process. Got the feeling that Pace et al are quite sharp operators so this will not be an admin error. It will have been done with purpose. Could not care less about reputation, it will not "taint" our achievements this season. Just think as a fan base, we need to watch how this plays out. It has the potential to increase our trust in them or damage it.

[RVclaret]

It seems Huddersfield have also been given a transfer embargo by the EFL for the exact same reason as us.

[agreenwood]

It seems Huddersfield have also been given a transfer embargo by the EFL for the exact same reason as us.

Huddersfield, Reading & Sheffield United aren’t great company to be in. The fanbases are all less than happy with their current owners.

[Stockbrokerbelt]

Pace & the board have made big decisions around change of manager, transfers, loan, contracts etc & all seem to be good business, they are also ex bankers/finance experts so I trust they are above board here.

[dsr]

That statement does not suggest it’s an admin issue at all though. The very fact that they are draft accounts evidences that they are simply not ready. An admin issue would be forgetting to press send on the 1st of March and everyone thinking they have gone !!

Bolton might not be the best example to use !

The accounts are still draft until the moment they're signed. It could be (we don't know) that the accounts are final as far as the club is concerned but the auditors simply haven't had time to tick every box on their audit file, and the accounts when signed will look exactly as they do now.

[dsr]

Pace & the board have made big decisions around change of manager, transfers, loan, contracts etc & all seem to be good business, they are also ex bankers/finance experts so I trust they are above board here.

But they aren't experts at filing accounts!

[NewClaret]

I can’t imagine there is an issue with the accounts. The accounts are for a PL season. That season we should have performed pretty well financially despite the relegation. And since then we know we’ve paid off substantial debt and signed a lot of players that would not have been possible with any financial issues.

It’s much more likely to be taking time to agree wording on things like the inter company loans, related parties, post balance sheet movements - all the stuff that goes in to them.

So gut feel is nothing to worry about but I do expect Alan Pace to be working night and day to get those accounts filed now and put all Burnley fans minds at rest.

[Paul Waine]

Tiempos emocionantes!

Thanks, Swizzlestick. Given me a big smile here in sunny Spain.

A few quick thoughts:

1) Good that EFL is asking questions on club accounts. We should expect this as part of the EFL response aiming to prove an independent regulator isn't needed.
2) Football Supporters Association has picked out BFC's acquisition arguing that FSA don't like leveraged acquisitions.
3) EFL rules, changed in 2021 (as posted by CP) require Group accounts. This is a change. This means, Calder Vale, Kettering Capital and Velocity Jersey. It may also extend to Velocity Sports US and include ALK Capital US as managing partner.
4) Complication, all these parent companies have different accounting dates that BFC Holdings and BF&A.
5) If auditors resign because of disagreement with the accounts that have been prepared then they are required to disclose their disagreement to the new auditors. (This was the rule 40+ years ago when I was an auditor. I doubt it's been changed).
6) Haslingden auditors may have resigned because they couldn't handle the audits of all the additional companies in the group. Equally, they may never have been appointed to be auditors for these companies. I don't think we've seen any accounts, yet for Calder Vale, Kettering Capital, so we don't know who has been auditors for these companies until now.

Just quick thoughts.

Tiempos emocionantes!

[FeedTheArf]

Pace & the board have made big decisions around change of manager, transfers, loan, contracts etc & all seem to be good business, they are also ex bankers/finance experts so I trust they are above board here.

There's not too many times you'll find 'bankers' and 'above board' in the same sentence. I don't doubt they know what they're doing, but that's also what worries me.

[NewClaret]

All good points PW. The one about the existing auditors not being able to audit the group companies accounts, or ever having been instructed to do so, is a good one.

[Big Vinny K]

The accounts are still draft until the moment they're signed. It could be (we don't know) that the accounts are final as far as the club is concerned but the auditors simply haven't had time to tick every box on their audit file, and the accounts when signed will look exactly as they do now.

I am aware of that.
My own accounts are very simple but it’s not uncommon at all for me to have made amendments to the draft accounts.
I’m also director of a large charity and we receive our draft accounts and often make changes via our board meeting when we go through them.

Draft accounts are not just about the auditor checking everything before finalising (though that is of course a big part of it). They also need to be reviewed and agreed by the board of directors who for many of the directors will not have been involved in the formation of those draft accounts (other than one or 2 of them).

Everywhere I have been involved in it’s not a dotting i’s or crossing t’s excercise.

[arise_sir_charge]

I note Huddersfield haven’t yet released a statement of any sort.

Also, in April 2021 ten championship clubs were placed under a transfer embargo for the same reasons.

[NewClaret]

I note Huddersfield haven’t yet released a statement of any sort.

Also, in April 2021 ten championship clubs were placed under a transfer embargo for the same reasons.

That’s interesting thanks arise sir charge.

[Sleeping Cat]

The lack of visibility about our clubs finances is very worrying.

[Big Vinny K]

I note Huddersfield haven’t yet released a statement of any sort.

Also, in April 2021 ten championship clubs were placed under a transfer embargo for the same reasons.

Interesting and was not aware of this.
Do you have a link ?
Wonder whether this was Covid related as in our case when extended the accounting period.

[Quickenthetempo]

I note Huddersfield haven’t yet released a statement of any sort.

Also, in April 2021 ten championship clubs were placed under a transfer embargo for the same reasons.

Which proves it would have come out, even if we didn't release a statement.
They got ahead of the curve which is good business practice.

[RVclaret]

Interesting and was not aware of this.
Do you have a link ?
Wonder whether this was Covid related as in our case when extended the accounting period.

Our friends down the road were one of the clubs.

It was kinda covid related.

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... ore-target

[AGENT_CLARET]

The lack of visibility about our clubs finances is very worrying.

Do you know the finances of all the other 91 clubs then

[jedi_master]

Also, in April 2021 ten championship clubs were placed under a transfer embargo for the same reasons.

That's pertinent info if true, good catch.

[arise_sir_charge]

I think it just shows that it’s not the huge issue some feared.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think it just shows that it’s not the huge issue some feared.

I'm a lot calmer about this now I've read a bit more on it

[123EasyasBFC]

We are in breach of regulation 16.2 and P&S Rule 2.1.3

If someone wants to read up on what they are

[aggi]

I doubt those companies will be required to file group accounts, so don't think the EFL regulations covers them.

I keep meaning to ask one of my technical guys for an answer on this. I'm not sure what exemption they'd have to avoid filing group accounts but the non-coterminous year-ends suggest it isn't expected (or this is what's causing the trouble, a messy consolidation with different year-ends maybe).

They are obviously the owners of the group (in the UK) and there are intercompany transactions between them and the club.

[RVclaret]

We are in breach of regulation 16.2 and P&S Rule 2.1.3

If someone wants to read up on what they are

Both related to not submitting accounts on time.

[Big Vinny K]

Our friends down the road were one of the clubs.

It was kinda covid related.

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... ore-target

Reading this article and the original daily mail article it sounds like it’s more than ‘kinda” COVID related - it’s directly as a result of the government giving companies a 3 month extension to submitting their accounts because of COVID. The EFL failed to recognise this extension in their own processes for some inexplicable reason and this led to an unusually large number of clubs missing their deadline.
Would be interesting to see how many missed the EFL deadline post COVID - I’ve had a quick search and can’t see anything (I may have missed this though)

Other thing worth saying is that the EFL are from perfect in this area. For example look at what happened to Bolton and Bury and how on earth they let some of the recent owners take charge of those clubs. Absolute shambles of a process that cost one club its existence and Bolton were very close too.

[Chester Perry]

I doubt those companies will be required to file group accounts, so don't think the EFL regulations covers them.

this subject has been discussed previously on the takeover thread - I understood the consensus from the 'accountants' here was full accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited because we believe they have borrowed circa £140m+ from the club.

see also Paul Waine below (point 3)

...A few quick thoughts:

1) Good that EFL is asking questions on club accounts. We should expect this as part of the EFL response aiming to prove an independent regulator isn't needed.
2) Football Supporters Association has picked out BFC's acquisition arguing that FSA don't like leveraged acquisitions.
3) EFL rules, changed in 2021 (as posted by CP) require Group accounts. This is a change. This means, Calder Vale, Kettering Capital and Velocity Jersey. It may also extend to Velocity Sports US and include ALK Capital US as managing partner.
4) Complication, all these parent companies have different accounting dates that BFC Holdings and BF&A.
5) If auditors resign because of disagreement with the accounts that have been prepared then they are required to disclose their disagreement to the new auditors. (This was the rule 40+ years ago when I was an auditor. I doubt it's been changed).
6) Haslingden auditors may have resigned because they couldn't handle the audits of all the additional companies in the group. Equally, they may never have been appointed to be auditors for these companies. I don't think we've seen any accounts, yet for Calder Vale, Kettering Capital, so we don't know who has been auditors for these companies until now.
...

thanks Paul you have cleared up a couple of thoughts for me, particularly as to Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey) being included under the group accounts covered by British Law in this context. I also get the point about standard shared filing dates - something I had previously noticed with both Mike G's and John B's operations as well as the group of companies under Burnley FC Holdings Limited. I note the club have this to say about the group situation (though it is now a year out of date in some regards) and it appears to put the limit at VSL in Jersey

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/company-details
"Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited is wholly-owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited, of which 83.97% of its entire issued share capital is owned by Calder Vale Holdings Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales (“Calder Vale”).

Calder Vale is owned, through a wholly-owned subsidiary, by Velocity Sports Limited, a company incorporated in Jersey. ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are the only persons or entities owning 25% or greater of Velocity Sports Limited.

ALK Capital LLC holds and controls the voting rights of Velocity Sports Limited...

Question to those who know these things - Is it considered standard/good practice to have the same auditors across a group? as would appear logical to me.

[Clive 1960]

this subject has been discussed previously on the takeover thread - I understood the consensus from the 'accountants' here was full accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited because we believe they have borrowed circa £140m+ from the club.

see also Paul Waine below (point 3)



thanks Paul you have cleared up a couple of thoughts for me, particularly as to Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey) being included under the group accounts covered by British Law in this context. I also get the point about standard shared filing dates - something I had previously noticed with both Mike G's and John B's operations as well as the group of companies under Burnley FC Holdings Limited. I note the club have this to say about the group situation (though it is now a year out of date in some regards) and it appears to put the limit at VSL in Jersey

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/company-details
"Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited is wholly-owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited, of which 83.97% of its entire issued share capital is owned by Calder Vale Holdings Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales (“Calder Vale”).

Calder Vale is owned, through a wholly-owned subsidiary, by Velocity Sports Limited, a company incorporated in Jersey. ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are the only persons or entities owning 25% or greater of Velocity Sports Limited.

ALK Capital LLC holds and controls the voting rights of Velocity Sports Limited...

Question to those who know these things - Is it considered standard/good practice to have the same auditors across a group? as would appear logical to me.

Hi , I read a post of yours saying our debt had been paid off is that a fact and do we know who by .

[Tall Paul]

this subject has been discussed previously on the takeover thread - I understood the consensus from the 'accountants' here was full accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited because we believe they have borrowed circa £140m+ from the club.

see also Paul Waine below (point 3)

OK, maybe I stand corrected and CVHL will need to file group accounts. However, the EFL don't appear to be aware of or concerned by this as they say the regulation we've failed to comply with is 16.2 which relates to submission of the club's accounts to them and not 16.3 relating to submission of group accounts to the Registrar.

Question to those who know these things - Is it considered standard/good practice to have the same auditors across a group? as would appear logical to me.

Yes. Different auditors would increase the work that needs to be done and therefore the costs and time involved.

[Chester Perry]

Hi , I read a post of yours saying our debt had been paid off is that a fact and do we know who by .

It is a fact

Technically the debt was paid off by the club

Where were the funds sourced from to fund the pay off? is the precise question we don't have a confirmed answer too though I suspect a few have theories - I know I have.