Transfer embargo

[Chester Perry]

Sorry about this but have the EFL actually issued a statement today?

Not a statement per se just listed them on the Championship embargoes page with indications as to the rules the club are in breach of for the embargo to be applied

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/embargoes/

you have to click the + opposite Championship to reveal the list which is actually a quite poor way of doing this

[Big Vinny K]

Exceptional contributions on this thread from Chester and aggi......as always.

The debt has been cleared......in full.

All the debt has been repaid in full ?
Or refinanced ?
Do you have a link confirming this ?…..great news if that is definite.

In terms of releasing the legal charge taken for the original debt initially I was thinking if it was refinanced we could see a new charge being registered as it’s not unusual for there to be a time period between these.
But my thinking has moved now to more likely it’s been repaid in full as feels too long a period has lapsed now without a new charge being registered.

[Chester Perry]

Exactly like us Huddersfield have also failed to submit their accounts on time and have been placed under an immediate transfer embargo.

Not exactly the same thing - they have filed their interim accounts for the current season

It should also be acknowledge that Huddersfield went through quite some turmoil last year and particularly over the summer with owner Phil Hodgkinson (whose own business tanked during covid) effectively walking away/pushed out the door? by Dean Hoyle when his historic loans were not being repaid as per the agreed schedule. There has been some things uncovered there I suspect which will have required a bit of unravelling so a delay in last years accounts is perhaps rather more understandable.

[ClaretPete001]

I understand what you are saying given that the issue of charges not being removed from KCL and Longside Properties Limited exists, but in reality are we saying that the charge being removed from the key bearing entities at Companies House is not factual evidence of the debt being cancelled. Would they not be legal repercussions if the debt had not been paid off

Interestingly the de listing from TISE last November is probably greater evidence that the loan has been paid off but I would agree that in pure terms we cannot treat it as more than suggestive.

The remainder of the loan was only £32 million and as far as I understand it the ground, Gawthorpe etc' and some other properties are owned by Longside properties. It's not an insubstantive amount.

[Chester Perry]

The remainder of the loan was only £32 million and as far as I understand it the ground, Gawthorpe etc' and some other properties are owned by Longside properties. It's not an insubstantive amount.

The value of Gawthorpe was hammered over 2 decades ago when it was ruled that they could never build on it other than for the purpose of a training ground and even then the club saw restrictions imposed on the plans they originally wanted to implement, meaning amongst other things two less training pitches.

I remain unconvinced that an organisation like MSD would be happy with Turf Moor and its environs, Gawthorpe and land of Mollywood Lane as the prime collateral for a £32.8m loan, especially as they have given up the access to the ready liquid cash of Season Ticket advances, Premier League monies/parachute payments and the less liquid player sales.

As I posted earlier, the critical element for me following the Feb 8th Satisfaction Notices, is the de-listing on TISE given the previous scenarios I have outlined. I currently have more faith in the certainty of MSD's actions than our ownership groups ability to make the the appropriate filings in a timely fashion

[Royboyclaret]

The value of Gawthorpe was hammered over 2 decades ago when it was ruled that they could never build on it other than for the purpose of a training ground and even then the club saw restrictions imposed on the plans they originally wanted to implement, meaning amongst other things two less training pitches.

I remain unconvinced that an organisation like MSD would be happy with Turf Moor and its environs, Gawthorpe and land of Mollywood Lane as the prime collateral for a £32.8m loan, especially as they have given up the access to the ready liquid cash of Season Ticket advances, Premier League monies/parachute payments and the less liquid player sales.

As I posted earlier, the critical element for me following the Feb 8th Satisfaction Notices, is the de-listing on TISE given the previous scenarios I have outlined. I currently have more faith in the certainty of MSD's actions than our ownership groups ability to make the the appropriate filings in a timely fashion

Hammered ??...Trust me, Chester, Gawthorpe, is one one the most sought after area's in the county.

[ClaretPete001]

The value of Gawthorpe was hammered over 2 decades ago when it was ruled that they could never build on it other than for the purpose of a training ground and even then the club saw restrictions imposed on the plans they originally wanted to implement, meaning amongst other things two less training pitches.

I remain unconvinced that an organisation like MSD would be happy with Turf Moor and its environs, Gawthorpe and land of Mollywood Lane as the prime collateral for a £32.8m loan, especially as they have given up the access to the ready liquid cash of Season Ticket advances, Premier League monies/parachute payments and the less liquid player sales.

As I posted earlier, the critical element for me following the Feb 8th Satisfaction Notices, is the de-listing on TISE given the previous scenarios I have outlined. I currently have more faith in the certainty of MSD's actions than our ownership groups ability to make the the appropriate filings in a timely fashion

Longside properties tangible assets are valued at over £20 million but you are right about the ability of our current owners to file the appropriate documents albeit you would think even they would struggle to file some but not others without reason.

To pay off all the external debt and fund a decent spend in the summer we are talking nigh on £200 million in two years.

Is it not more likely that we are looking at a debt re-structure as opposed to paying off debt?

I realise that you are probably alluding to that but it seems that quite a number on this thread are being given the impression that all the external debt is paid off.

What it looks like to me is that we are in the middle of a complex structural re-organisation and that the old auditors could not conduct or were not comfortable with how ALK wanted to present the accounts and therefore there has been a change, which has delayed the accounts.

I can't see any real evidence there has been significant external funding or that there are any real commercial benefits to operating without debt.

[Chester Perry]

Hammered ??...Trust me, Chester, Gawthorpe, is one one the most sought after area's in the county.

Roy it was confirmed that no housing/industry could ever be built on it, it had a huge impact on our credit relationship with TSB as I remember. Of Course planning rules have changed since, but it should be possible for the council to puta use restriction on it and Turf Moor actually which would undermine the values for them both

[Royboyclaret]

Roy it was confirmed that no housing/industry could ever be built on it, it had a huge impact on our credit relationship with TSB as I remember. Of Course planning rules have changed since, but it should be possible for the council to puta use restriction on it and Turf Moor actually which would undermine the values for them both
[/quote



Chester, trust me Gawthorpe in Padiham remains one of the most desirable areas in the the whole county.

Alan Pace is well aware.

[NewClaret]

The value of Gawthorpe was hammered over 2 decades ago when it was ruled that they could never build on it other than for the purpose of a training ground and even then the club saw restrictions imposed on the plans they originally wanted to implement, meaning amongst other things two less training pitches.

I remain unconvinced that an organisation like MSD would be happy with Turf Moor and its environs, Gawthorpe and land of Mollywood Lane as the prime collateral for a £32.8m loan, especially as they have given up the access to the ready liquid cash of Season Ticket advances, Premier League monies/parachute payments and the less liquid player sales.

As I posted earlier, the critical element for me following the Feb 8th Satisfaction Notices, is the de-listing on TISE given the previous scenarios I have outlined. I currently have more faith in the certainty of MSD's actions than our ownership groups ability to make the the appropriate filings in a timely fashion

CP, I’m glad that you are happy this has been repaid, and I’m the one questioning it, but if Longside Properties has the charge registered against it, and the TopCo (forget its name) also retains the charge, isn’t that like having the keys to the car and the car in the event of a default?

Why the charge would be removed from the other entities, I don’t know. Plus the TISE de-listing does support a repayment. I think I might be disagreeing with myself

[Chester Perry]

...Is it not more likely that we are looking at a debt re-structure as opposed to paying off debt?

I realise that you are probably alluding to that but it seems that quite a number on this thread are being given the impression that all the external debt is paid off.

What it looks like to me is that we are in the middle of a complex structural re-organisation and that the old auditors could not conduct or were not comfortable with how ALK wanted to present the accounts and therefore there has been a change, which has delayed the accounts.,,,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8RjPAD2Jk

...I can't see any real evidence there has been significant external funding or that there are any real commercial benefits to operating without debt.

so what does that suggest about a source for a refinancing?

[HistoricalClaret]

Longside properties tangible assets are valued at over £20 million but you are right about the ability of our current owners to file the appropriate documents albeit you would think even they would struggle to file some but not others without reason.

To pay off all the external debt and fund a decent spend in the summer we are talking nigh on £200 million in two years.

Is it not more likely that we are looking at a debt re-structure as opposed to paying off debt?

I realise that you are probably alluding to that but it seems that quite a number on this thread are being given the impression that all the external debt is paid off.

What it looks like to me is that we are in the middle of a complex structural re-organisation and that the old auditors could not conduct or were not comfortable with how ALK wanted to present the accounts and therefore there has been a change, which has delayed the accounts.

I can't see any real evidence there has been significant external funding or that there are any real commercial benefits to operating without debt.

If it was a debt restructure the new loan charge would have been registered by now I would think either that or someone is sat out there with an unsecured laon

[Chester Perry]

CP, I’m glad that you are happy this has been repaid, and I’m the one questioning it, but if Longside Properties has the charge registered against it, and the TopCo (forget its name) also retains the charge, isn’t that like having the keys to the car and the car in the event of a default?

Why the charge would be removed from the other entities, I don’t know. Plus the TISE de-listing does support a repayment. I think I might be disagreeing with myself

I think more focus needs to be on where the money that enabled that has come from and what that means to the club going forward, that certainly is where my attention has been focussed this last few weeks

[NewClaret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8RjPAD2Jk



so what does that suggest about a source for a refinancing?

Guess who’s back?!

[aggi]

Longside properties tangible assets are valued at over £20 million but you are right about the ability of our current owners to file the appropriate documents albeit you would think even they would struggle to file some but not others without reason.

...

That is the value of it as a training ground and football stadium and relates to the amounts spent.

It doesn't necessarily reflect what you'd be able to sell it for.

[Spiral]

Without reading the whole 10 pages of the thread, could someone better informed than me answer a simple yes/no question for me?

Are we screwed?

[NewClaret]

Guess who’s back?!

Well the directors box did look fuller than usual at Wigan. Can’t imagine it was all JJ’s entourage!

[NewClaret]

Without reading the whole 10 pages of the thread, could someone better informed than me answer a simple yes/no question for me?

Are we screwed?

No

[Spiral]

Great!

[Royboyclaret]

Roy it was confirmed that no housing/industry could ever be built on it, it had a huge impact on our credit relationship with TSB as I remember. Of Course planning rules have changed since, but it should be possible for the council to puta use restriction on it and Turf Moor actually which would undermine the values for them both

Chester.....I'm literally 2 miles from Gawthorpe at Higham and never known such financially interest in Gawthorpe.

BFC need to take immediate interest.

[Rileybobs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8RjPAD2Jk



so what does that suggest about a source for a refinancing?

Garlick?

[ClaretPete001]

That is the value of it as a training ground and football stadium and relates to the amounts spent.

It doesn't necessarily reflect what you'd be able to sell it for.

No, but it is unlikely that even if the club hit the buffers someone would not be prepared to buy it as a football club. And MSD holding the ground in a group not related the football club might make it easier to manage through. I'm thinking of the Derby County situation.

I find it hard to believe that ALK remove the notice on some companies and completely forget others. I mean I know they have form but what would the point be of removing the notices and leaving all this room for conjecture.

It doesn't make sense but we are talking huge sums here with little evidence of external funding and quite a lot of conjecture to get from A to the debt is paid off and it is not coming from new debt.

I think for the purpose of accuracy and to reflect the current situation the best we can say is that nobody really knows what is going on.

[Chester Perry]

Garlick?

that is not who/what I am thinking of

[Marney neyMar]

Reads like Garlick (& John B?) have put their money back in again to clear the external debt?

Has Pace convinced them they could be in for an even greater windfall if they can sell for the second time around as an established Prem side in the next few years?

[Rileybobs]

that is not who/what I am thinking of

You big tease you

[Goalposts]

As its for the accounts ending the year 22 when we where still in the prem , i dont see an issue, as our bank balance and other such was historically strong and given the sale of players this year and the nett spend favourable. Struggling to see it as more of an issue than administrative, and as all contracts with offers to buy were concluded before the embargo. It doesnt stop us signing Obafemi or beyer

[Royboyclaret]

Garlick?

Sadly. Mike Garlick is out of the equation, as I'm sur'e Rileybobs is well aware.

[Rileybobs]

Sadly. Mike Garlick is out of the equation, as I'm sur'e Rileybobs is well aware.

He’s on the board of directors

[Royboyclaret]

He’s on the board of directors

He Is, but has very little voice, where it matters.

[Chester Perry]

...and it is not coming from new debt.

it is interesting how the above and below work together

...I think for the purpose of accuracy and to reflect the current situation the best we can say is that nobody really knows what is going on.

fwiw I suspect the the first quote is wrong as it stands but correct in the relationship you gave it in the complete sentence

no evidence to back it up but

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=When+ ... B34XVV3DWQ

[Rileybobs]

He Is, but has very little voice, where it matters.

Maybe a little voice, but a big wallet.

Anyhow, I was just trying my best to put two and two together but CP is thinking along different lines.

[Marney neyMar]

it is interesting how the above and below work together



fwiw I suspect the the first quote is wrong as it stands but correct in the relationship you gave it in the complete sentence

no evidence to back it up but

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=When+ ... B34XVV3DWQ

What’s impossible and what’s improbable in this situation?

New debt = not impossible or improbable.
New investment = not impossible, despite being improbable in the eyes of many.
Others?

[Chester Perry]

You big tease you

https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/me-tease-g ... f-12323436

[ClaretPete001]

it is interesting how the above and below work together



fwiw I suspect the the first quote is wrong as it stands but correct in the relationship you gave it in the complete sentence

no evidence to back it up but

I'm not sure I get your meaning perhaps statement 1 is badly punctuated and should read:

"...quite a lot of conjecture to get from: (1) A, to (") the debt is paid off and it is not coming from new debt."

which seems the same as:

"I think for the purpose of accuracy and to reflect the current situation the best we can say is that nobody really knows what is going on."

Or maybe I misunderstand your point.

[Royboyclaret]

Maybe a little voice, but a big wallet.

Anyhow, I was just trying my best to put two and two together but CP is thinking along different lines.

Don't get me wrong here........Mike should be so influential.......he has all the experience.

But Alan is new to all this and should lean on on the likes of Garlick as to the way forward.

[Chester Perry]

This

Or maybe I misunderstand your point.

though given how deliberately vague I am being entirely understandable - feels like I am playing Charades -and I know most if not all will find that entirely unhelpful

[Royboyclaret]

Burnley boys we are here, whoa, whoa.

[ArmchairDetective]

Huddersfield now given an embargo for the same reason.

Been reading the word embargo so much it's starting to sound like the name of our next winger.

[jtv]

As its for the accounts ending the year 22 when we where still in the prem , i dont see an issue, as our bank balance and other such was historically strong and given the sale of players this year and the nett spend favourable. Struggling to see it as more of an issue than administrative, and as all contracts with offers to buy were concluded before the embargo. It doesnt stop us signing Obafemi or beyer

But is it for the 2021/22 season or for this season?

[RVclaret]

But is it for the 2021/22 season or for this season?

2021/22 accounts but I think they also provide forecasts for this season.

[Clive 1960]

Hopefully we can sort it out in the next month if not wait until we are in the premiership and it gets scrapped as different league and rules.

[NewClaret]

Chester.....I'm literally 2 miles from Gawthorpe at Higham and never known such financially interest in Gawthorpe.

BFC need to take immediate interest.

What does this mean Royboyclaret?

[RVclaret]

Andy Jones’ piece in the Athletic today on this situation provides a good summary with a few ‘inside sources’.

https://theathletic.com/4302898/2023/03 ... explained/

[Quickenthetempo]

Chester.....I'm literally 2 miles from Gawthorpe at Higham and never known such financially interest in Gawthorpe.

BFC need to take immediate interest.

RoyBoy, there is a housing site available to buy 500 yards from the training ground (the old main gas site).

Is this the interest? Not sure what else it could be down there?

[pureclaret]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I believe VK new about this some 3 or 4 weeks ago .

[Chester Perry]

Andy Jones’ piece in the Athletic today on this situation provides a good summary with a few ‘inside sources’.

https://theathletic.com/4302898/2023/03 ... explained/

for none subscribers, and there are some great value deals out there for this excellent site - this archive version of the report avoids paywall issues
https://archive.is/i7Ple

It is a better report than most, though nothing really new for people who have been following this and the takeover thread. It still gets the ownerships portion of the shareholding wrong - perhaps Andy Jones was trusting the club's company details webpage which has now been out of date for over 12 months (and is in fact another breach of EFL/Premier League rules).

Last March saw the ownership close its share purchase offer to small shareholders. A confirmation statement from the Burnley FC Holdings Limited Company released on November 4 2022 showed that less than half (3,255) of the 7,578 shares open to the offer ended up being transferred, giving the transaction a total value of £5,330,245.00 and increasing the CVHL shareholding to 106,107 shares or 86.63% of the 122,478 allotted shares in the Holding Company.

This information has been shared a number of times now on this board so perhaps it was not the source of the detail on the report. Which is good.

[Chester Perry]

RoyBoy, there is a housing site available to buy 500 yards from the training ground (the old main gas site).

Is this the interest? Not sure what else it could be down there?

If the money could be found it would help with the BFC Women team/Academy who we are told are looking for somewhere to build a home ground closer to Gawthorpe - or even just for an extension of the training ground to incorporate BFC Women.

[Chester Perry]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but I believe VK new about this some 3 or 4 weeks ago .

I am sure there are a number at the club who have been aware of this for a few months now given that they say they have been talking to the EFL about it for that length of time - the tone of the club's statement was much more one of disappointment than surprise.

[Quickenthetempo]

If the money could be found it would help with the BFC Women team/Academy who we are told are looking for somewhere to build a home ground closer to Gawthorpe - or even just for an extension of the training ground to incorporate BFC Women.

Where have you heard about them wanting to build a ground?

I was under the impression they built pitches for the ladies team at the training ground, on the right hand side if you went over the bridge.

[Chester Perry]

Where have you heard about them wanting to build a ground?

I was under the impression they built pitches for the ladies team at the training ground, on the right hand side if you went over the bridge.

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/f ... e-25832265

BFC Women have a deal with Shuttleworth College to use their facilities for training purposes - they do not train on a grass pitch, which is a longer term concern