Surviving in the Premier League without a £billionaire investor?

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:03 am

Is it realistically possible to compete without one? Can we attract someone to support our ‘fighting underdog’ club? Which billionaire/multi-millionaire might be persuaded to invest?

Michael Dell (Dell computers)
Jim Ratcliffe (if he’s unsuccessful in his Man Utd bid)
Elon Musk

Prince Charles

Who would be your choice?

UGR · Post by **UGR** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:07 am

Alan Pace
I think we can and will finish top half next season.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:09 am

It's possible to be competitive to a certain extent as we've proved over the past decade, however it's always going to be difficult to swim against the tide for ever.

Sadly the PL is becoming a rich boys playground with ever increasing disparity between those with monied backers and those trying to get their foot up the ladder.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:28 am

Its moved beyond billionaires onto nation states now.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:37 am

dushanbe wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:28 am
Its moved beyond billionaires onto nation states now.

The citizens republic of The Isle of Man

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:46 am

We can't be far off every club being owned by at least a billionaire. Three will still go down, for now.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:56 am

If we ever had a Newcastle type of situation with our ownership I’d be done with professional football

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:04 pm

First define survive, ie duration etc.
A number of years like last time is surviving.
Then you enter the realm of treading water.

Pace etc have overhauled the clubs image so they can attract investment, this is being shown with the NFL players putting in, relatively, small sums of money.

Bournemouth are owned by a group of smallish investors, with the aim of growing the club sufficiently that they can sell it on for a profit at some point, much like ALK are most likely doing here

As I said the other day, the majority of clubs in the PL are treading water and will continue to do so, even with billionaire investment.
The fans just need to understand that this is the PL now, and will continue to be as such for the foreseeable, unless you get another Abramovich/Gulf state/mega rich American coming onboard.

There's plenty of billionaires around, they're just not all that interested in English football.
Also, the PL is stuck in the past with certain things and that will also put off some people, because growth is limited as a result.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:09 pm

claret2018 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:56 am
If we ever had a Newcastle type of situation with our ownership I’d be done with professional football

You would be done with professional football when Burnley are competing for trophies and huge globally with world class footballers? Foreign fans love success, now foreign kids in Africa are growing up Man City fans, they certainly weren't in the 90s.

I understand the issue with the Saudis, I don't agree with anything they stand for but I find it quite difficult to point the finger like our sh!t doesn't stink whilst our country has killed thousands of innocent children in the Middle East with bombs and turned towns to rubble.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:09 pm

Mala591 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:03 am
Is it realistically possible to compete without one? Can we attract someone to support our ‘fighting underdog’ club? Which billionaire/multi-millionaire might be persuaded to invest?

Michael Dell (Dell computers)
Jim Ratcliffe (if he’s unsuccessful in his Man Utd bid)
Elon Musk
Prince Charles

Who would be your choice?

King Charles

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:16 pm

kentonclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:09 pm
King Charles

Oops sorry Charlie

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:53 pm

Surviving yes, competing no.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:09 pm

Vladimir putin

bf2k · Post by **bf2k** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:35 pm

Survive...possibly
Compete...no and this is why I was in favour of the European Super League. Le the rich boys and play things bugger off and play together. Let the rest of us who love the game have a level(ish) "competition".

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:57 pm

Mala591 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:16 pm
Oops sorry Charlie

I think you might also be disappointed with how little personal wealth the King has.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:12 pm

If we manage to survive for a few years, without any realistic chance of winning a cup or qualifying for Europe you do start to wonder what the point of it all is.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:18 pm

We do need a list of acceptable foreign state owners

Anyone a fan of Iran?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:25 pm

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:09 pm
You would be done with professional football when Burnley are competing for trophies and huge globally with world class footballers? Foreign fans love success, now foreign kids in Africa are growing up Man City fans, they certainly weren't in the 90s.

I understand the issue with the Saudis, I don't agree with anything they stand for but I find it quite difficult to point the finger like our sh!t doesn't stink whilst our country has killed thousands of innocent children in the Middle East with bombs and turned towns to rubble.

Whilst true to a certain extent regarding Man City, Liverpool still have a massive global following despite one league title in decades.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:56 pm

2 Bee Holed wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:57 pm
I think you might also be disappointed with how little personal wealth the King has.

Well I'd swap my personal wealth for his

Pickles · Post by **Pickles** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:10 pm

Slightly off topic and a tad hypothetical but who do we think is the next Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle? The ideal for these sorts of consortiums is a team in the Premier League but away from there, I think Plymouth Argyle and Bristol City could well be attractive options.

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:20 pm

dushanbe wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:28 am
Its moved beyond billionaires onto nation states now.

Niue's a nice place with lovely people and we could provide all the residents with a seat when they come to watch.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:55 pm

Pickles wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:10 pm
Slightly off topic and a tad hypothetical but who do we think is the next Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle? The ideal for these sorts of consortiums is a team in the Premier League but away from there, I think Plymouth Argyle and Bristol City could well be attractive options.

So those first three teams didn't need massive amounts of money for infrastructure, Plymouth definitely would, along with Bristol.

If you're a mega rich owner, you're looking at someone like Sunderland, big stadium, loyal fanbase and I'm assuming decent training facilities and youth set up.
The right investment in squad and manager and they'll be in the PL

Bolton have a decent stadium, probably same with the training ground.

A mega rich owner will want to focus mainly on the playing squad initially, not the rest of it.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:08 pm

Sunderland, Derby Couunty, Sheffield Weds?

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:12 pm

Hate to say it but Leeds… they are another Newcastle in terms of fan base and city size.

Claretitus · Post by **Claretitus** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:55 pm
[quote=Pickles post_id=2053495 time=<a href="tel:1679332221">1679332221</a> user_id=2200]
Slightly off topic and a tad hypothetical but who do we think is the next Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle? The ideal for these sorts of consortiums is a team in the Premier League but away from there, I think Plymouth Argyle and Bristol City could well be attractive options.

So those first three teams didn't need massive amounts of money for infrastructure, Plymouth definitely would, along with Bristol.

If you're a mega rich owner, you're looking at someone like Sunderland, big stadium, loyal fanbase and I'm assuming decent training facilities and youth set up.
The right investment in squad and manager and they'll be in the PL

Bolton have a decent stadium, probably same with the training ground.

A mega rich owner will want to focus mainly on the playing squad initially, not the rest of it.

Think Bolton sold the training ground they built with the Premier League money. First to Wigan Athletic, then they sold it to PNE a couple of years ago.
[/quote]

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:40 pm

Once there's enough big city teams with billionaire owners they'll just abolish relegation and that'll be that.

Ampth7 · Post by **Ampth7** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:44 pm

Bristol City would be prime candidates for an investor. They have had major work done to their stadium and training facilities and it is certainly a potential premier league club.

Back to the original question, the simple answer is yes if you want to stay in the prem long term. As things stand we are in that category of clubs who ‘yo-yo’ up and down the top two leagues and to become a Brighton for example, we would need significant investment at all levels of the club.

Interestingly, we seem to have now followed Brighton’s strategy on player recruitment which is great and hopefully our academy can also produce a few gems along the way. In the short term, it will be interesting to see how much financial backing VK will get this summer, because despite an excellent season this year, the squad will need improvements in key positions.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:03 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:40 pm
Once there's enough big city teams with billionaire owners they'll just abolish relegation and that'll be that.

That's a very fair point.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:10 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:40 pm
Once there's enough big city teams with billionaire owners they'll just abolish relegation and that'll be that.

Will they though?

There are quite a few clubs outside of the Prem that are potentially bigger than some of the clubs owned by wealthy owners in the PL.

If they weren't allowed to get promoted I'm sure there would be an almighty fuss.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:12 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:10 pm
Will they though?

There are quite a few clubs outside of the Prem that are potentially bigger than some of the clubs owned by wealthy owners in the PL.

If they weren't allowed to get promoted I'm sure there would be an almighty fuss.

I sincerely hope you are right.

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:27 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:10 pm
Will they though?

There are quite a few clubs outside of the Prem that are potentially bigger than some of the clubs owned by wealthy owners in the PL.

If they weren't allowed to get promoted I'm sure there would be an almighty fuss.

Indeed, but I'm thinking a billionaire will take a big underachieving club and take them up, so we'd end up something like;
Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle, Chelsea as a given
Then Everton, Villa, Leeds as arguably the biggest of the rest, so there's 10 there.
Then its a free for all between teams like Wolves, Derby, the sheffield clubs, the london clubs, Sunderland, the south coast clubs, maybe even the glasgow clubs. Clubs like us and Blackburn would only have history and tradition on our side.

It could be Portsmouth, it could be Ipswich, but once there's 20 teams with billionaire owners I truly believe they'll shut the door.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:28 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:40 pm
Once there's enough big city teams with billionaire owners they'll just abolish relegation and that'll be that.

Then that would be the death of football for many, if clubs can't aspire to compete at the highest level then where is the motivation to improve.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:34 pm

Mala591 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:03 am

Prince Charles

Orf with yer bonce!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:38 pm

distortiondave wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:27 pm
Indeed, but I'm thinking a billionaire will take a big underachieving club and take them up, so we'd end up something like;
Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal, Newcastle, Chelsea as a given
Then Everton, Villa, Leeds as arguably the biggest of the rest, so there's 10 there.
Then its a free for all between teams like Wolves, Derby, the sheffield clubs, the london clubs, Sunderland, the south coast clubs, maybe even the glasgow clubs. Clubs like us and Blackburn would only have history and tradition on our side.

It could be Portsmouth, it could be Ipswich, but once there's 20 teams with billionaire owners I truly believe they'll shut the door.

Owners aside, you only have to see the reaction from fans of the big clubs towards a super league to realise they wouldn't want a closed shop.

As soon as everyone saw supporters turning up outside places like Chelsea then it was obvious it was a non starter. I'm sure the reaction would be the same towards a closed shop.

Also, there would have to be a valid argument that relegation should be abolished.

I doubt supporters of even the biggest clubs would agree to that if they didn't agree to the super league.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:39 pm

I've no concerns about our ability to survive with the backing we've currently got. I've no wish to have a billionaire backer. My wish is that the big clubs clear off and leave a much level playing field.

distortiondave · Post by **distortiondave** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:41 pm

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:28 pm
Then that would be the death of football for many, if clubs can't aspire to compete at the highest level then where is the motivation to improve.

It would for the likes of us, but your £100 a month sky sports subscriber wouldn't give two hoots and if anything the 'brand' would grow.
All the players would be on 300k a week, no fear of relegation means top players would still sign for, e.g Leeds, and after 5 years of global domination by the biggest of the big it'd be a 'heart-warming fairy tale' for someone like Everton to finish 4th.

The only thing that might stop something like this would be a European Super League, because then you'd have 20 ready made billionaire clubs that are no longer part of the domestic league system.
There's no way Brighton, for example, get into a Super League, but they could maybe find themselves in a cushty league with no relegation.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:42 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:39 pm
I've no concerns about our ability to survive with the backing we've currently got. I've no wish to have a billionaire backer. My wish is that the big clubs clear off and leave a much level playing field.

There is no longer any such thing.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:48 pm

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:56 pm
Well I'd swap my personal wealth for his

Indeed.

He's hardly a billionaire, though.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:51 pm

Even with relegation we could eventually find it becoming a closed shop for 25 clubs, where 3 relegated clubs are too strong to stop in the championship.

Commy · Post by **Commy** » Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:11 am

The only places to have local support are Burnley and Watford. All the other towns or cities have successful teams shirts all over the place. So, if Burnley had the oil money put in as City have, how many people would then attend the matches? Might only be a small town but you can guarantee the support will go up with major success. It's a double edged sword. They don't want to put money into a small club but if they did the small club could become a massive one. I bet our shirt sales have gone up with just signing certain players. Look at the Moroccans and South Africans on twitter with just two signings.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:34 am

One thing that's noticeable is that it felt just as hard to survive when we got Promoted in 2009.