ARTICLE: Clubs should hang their heads in shame over derby tickets

[TravisBickle]

Or they prioritised going to these matches over pi$$ing it up a wall and made sacrifices in other monetary ways to get there because they were loyal to their club. That loyalty has not been reciprocated by the club.

You choose what to spend your money on and shouldn’t criticise others for making their own choices.

UTC

******* it up a wall.

You have to be on a windup. Or drugs. Or both.

[martin_p]

I agree 6000 points is a lot. You could have got to 6000 in the last 10 seasons. Do you think 11000 + points is just given to some people? it has taken my children about 20 years to amass 11000+ points. That’s 20 season tickets and 15 cup /away matches per season on average. I started in the late 70’s and have had a season ticket for 45+ years. If you haven’t got the points then there is something wrong if you’ve had a season ticket and been to loads of away matches. Loyalty over 20 years has not been rewarded yet loyalty over 10 has. That is not rewarding loyalty is it?

Utc

I used to average 35 games a season in the early 90s when I was in my 20s but it’s worth nothing in terms of how ‘loyalty’ is currently defined. It’s a flawed system and it becomes more flawed as time goes on. The system can’t be based on a fixed point in time, I.e the start of the scheme, it needs to change to a rolling period.

[Vince Fontaine]

Yeh sorry I couldn’t afford 3 trips to Aberdeen, Istanbul & Athens within the space of a month when I was 18 must mean I’m disloyal

My son did at 21 as a uni student all about priorities. He knew we were going to play in Europe in April / May so he saved up made sacrifices earned money through the summer in order to be able to afford it. His loyalty has NOT been rewarded by the club. Or mine or my daughters.

UTC

[Vince Fontaine]

Yeh sorry I couldn’t afford 3 trips to Aberdeen, Istanbul & Athens within the space of a month when I was 18 must mean I’m disloyal

My son did at 21 as a uni student all about priorities. He knew we were going to play in Europe in April / May so he saved up made sacrifices earned money through the summer in order to be able to afford it. His loyalty has NOT been rewarded by the club. Or mine or my daughters.

UTC

[TravisBickle]

My son did at 21 as a uni student all about priorities. He knew we were going to play in Europe in April / May so he saved up made sacrifices earned money through the summer in order to be able to afford it. His loyalty has NOT been rewarded by the club. Or mine or my daughters.

UTC

Definitely on drugs.

Imagine being dragged to games by you. No wonder none of their mates have as many points.

Sorry not today vince. I’m washing my hair.

[martin_p]

Or they prioritised going to these matches over pi$$ing it up a wall and made sacrifices in other monetary ways to get there because they were loyal to their club. That loyalty has not been reciprocated by the club.

You choose what to spend your money on and shouldn’t criticise others for making their own choices.

UTC

Or, given they were only 18 and 20 at the time, had Jo responsibilities/job they needed to take holiday from and were likely paid for anyway. I’m sure most people who couldn’t afford it were spending their money on mortgages and bills. Had the club got to Europe when I was young, free and single without any responsibilities I’d have been there like a shot too.

[Notsosuperstevedavis]

If your lucky enough to have 6000 points. Congratulations on having the time and money to see so many games,

If you were unlucky enough to miss out in the main through a spiteful opposition.

Put your phone down and ‘HAVE A DAY OFF’.

Dont whine about missing out in a ballot.

Theres going to be more that wanted to go than get to go.
I think the 6000 points should be scrapped and ballots evwry home game. That’d be fair.

Cannot stand this ‘I’m more important than you, I deserve to go more than you absolute ********’

Next you’ll be wanting extra votes in the general election as you’re older and ‘wiser’ than your younger counterparts.

Give over.

[Vince Fontaine]

******* it up a wall.

You have to be on a windup. Or drugs. Or both.

Sorry I should have said “spending their money on alcohol “

Is that clearer

No. No and No

UTC

[TommyPicks]

A certified uptheclarets classic thread in the making is this. Sweet Jesus

[Vince Fontaine]

Or, given they were only 18 and 20 at the time, had Jo responsibilities/job they needed to take holiday from and were likely paid for anyway. I’m sure most people who couldn’t afford it were spending their money on mortgages and bills. Had the club got to Europe when I was young, free and single without any responsibilities I’d have been there like a shot too.

And I was married in full time employment in the public sector with 4 children 17,18,19 and 21 like I said my money their money we choose to spend on what we want, the car we drive the holidays we go on. If they wanted to go to a football match and could afford it they did if they couldn’t afford it they didn’t their choice.

God there are some uneducated morons on this board who need things spelling out to them.

UTC

[alwaysaclaret]

So you’re loyal - When it suits.

6,000 is a LOT of points. End of.

Someone with 2,000 is loyal.

I’ve less than 5,000. Been home and away to most games since the early 80s. For many of those games I paid on the gate home and away. Zero points accrued. Therefore didn’t even qualify to enter the ballot. Never mind get a ticket.

Been to Millwall on a Tuesday this season. Hull. Watford on a Friday night. Pretty much every away game. QPR on a Sunday dinner time at Christmas.

Istanbul. Norwich on a Sunday at lunch time. MK dons on a weeknight with about 100 others. Rochdale at home in the cup. Spurs away in cup. The same week we played them away in the league. At Christmas.

It is what it is. No crying over spilt milk. I didn’t accumulate the points when the system was introduced.

Theirs fans more loyal than me who didn’t get one either. And will be fans less loyal than me or younger fans that manage to get one. Good luck to them. We are all clarets and all loyal in our own way.

It’s a nonsense fixture anyway and thankfully will be nothing riding on it for us.

There'll be lot's in exactly this position Travis, me for one, went to countless game's without accumulating points, through not having a clarets number, in the early day's didn't even realise the system existed. I have just over 5000 points as it is, but had I accrued points for all the games I'd been on I'd probably have somewhere around the 7/8000 bracket. It's always going to be unfair on several levels for the ones who don't get a ticket for games such as this. Going off recent home crowds there's probably around 17,000 that wanted to go to this game such has been the support, so clearly that was never going to be possible and every one of them will have an argument why they should be there, not possible, the ones that have got need to be thankful, the ones that haven't need to move on, simple as. As you say, it is what it is.

[TravisBickle]

And I was married in full time employment in the public sector with 4 children 17,18,19 and 21 like I said my money their money we choose to spend on what we want, the car we drive the holidays we go on. If they wanted to go to a football match and could afford it they did if they couldn’t afford it they didn’t their choice.

God there are some uneducated morons on this board who need things spelling out to them.

UTC

Perhaps that we should spell out that, again when it suited you wanted things to change.

In this example loyal fans of other clubs having their away capacity reduced.

[martin_p]

And I was married in full time employment in the public sector with 4 children 17,18,19 and 21 like I said my money their money we choose to spend on what we want, the car we drive the holidays we go on. If they wanted to go to a football match and could afford it they did if they couldn’t afford it they didn’t their choice.

God there are some uneducated morons on this board who need things spelling out to them.

UTC

An 18 year old with a season ticket and two trips to the continent in a short space of time is one hell of a paper round.

But you’re fundamentally missing the point. Many don’t have enough money left over after bills to have the option to ‘choose’ expensive trips to football matches.

[TravisBickle]

There'll be lot's in exactly this position Travis, me for one, went to countless game's without accumulating points, through not having a clarets number, in the early day's didn't even realise the system existed. I have just over 5000 points as it is, but had I accrued points for all the games I'd been on I'd probably have somewhere around the 7/8000 bracket. It's always going to be unfair on several levels for the ones who don't get a ticket for games such as this. Going off recent home crowds there's probably around 17,000 that wanted to go to this game such has been the support, so clearly that was never going to be possible and every one of them will have an argument why they should be there, not possible, the ones that have got need to be thankful, the ones that haven't need to move on, simple as. As you say, it is what it is.

Exactly. I actually didn’t even know the points system existed until the Liverpool Covid game that I DID qualify for but wasn’t successful for.

A younger family member who was around 10 at the time did manage to get a ticket. And I was delighted that he managed to get one even though I didn’t and most of his points were gained through attending games that I bought him tickets for!

[welsbyswife]

This thread must be an all time low for this board. Utterly embarrassing from start to finish. Childlike.

[TravisBickle]

This thread must be an all time low for this board. Utterly embarrassing from start to finish. Childlike.

A minority of grown men acting like spoilt kids. Ironic when they want a system that prevents kids getting tickets for away games.

[Here's-Johnny]

How would you know that? Didn't they sell out in around 15 minutes?

He made that statement up...period.

[Boss Hogg]

An antiquated system when someone who doesn’t really go on much any more has thousands of points and can cherry pick the odd away match.

But it’s a Blackburn problem and pretty pathetic from them.
The good news is demand outstrips supply and fans are desperate to see the team …..and it’s on TV.

[Ralphandwillie]

i,ve noticed nobody on this thread seems concerned at BFC in the community lack of support for the Foodbank. (as in Tony,s article)
Anybody any views?

[Clive 1960]

I'm clearly more angered by Blackburn because I think they've behaved shamelessly in this. I know organisations have looked at what they've done, including the league, but they've broken no rules giving us 2,000 tickets which is the absolute minimum.

I'm probably more frustrated at our club at the way we've dealt with it. We have a system in place which I know is far from perfect, but we decided not to use it for this game. I probably shouldn't have added the personal stuff because this is not about me but about the system they used. I added the bit at the back having received that email this afternoon telling me I'd been successful when it was meant for someone else.

The system we have is not perfect for the point system how do the young up and coming fan's go to these high profile matches who are going to only allocate minimum tickets. Me personally if I was Mr Pace I would have talked to the fans first about boycotting the game and told them down the road where to stick there tickets where sun doesn't shine, I'm sorry you haven't got a ticket as you have served this club well in what you do, I remember you from when we were younger especially going with your brother Mick and lads from the park view, GOOD OLD DAYS none of this ticket fiasco we have today.

[Clive 1960]

A boycott was never, ever, ever going to happen.

File under ‘1000s of Burnley fans in the home ends and 1000s in town’.

They will be a few scattered around there ground who have bought the £99 I think it is for a few games.

[ChristheViking]

i,ve noticed nobody on this thread seems concerned at BFC in the community lack of support for the Foodbank. (as in Tony,s article)
Anybody any views?

No-one’s concerned because a) it’s 100% irrelevant to the Blackburn game and b) it was just a cheap shot from the OP with an axe to grind.

If there’s one good thing come from this it’s shown the majority of fans understand the no-win position the Club was in. Most fans are reasonable people.

There’s a few that think they are “owed” or that the Club should revolve around them but most have rolled with this and are focusing now on the game.

[Clive 1960]

I just hope those who have been very lucky getting a ticket do not buy a single item in the ground and take your own butties if you are peckish. And I really hope our team are as pumped up as a lot of posters are on here and wipe the floor with them , 5-0 rings a bell

[AGENT_CLARET]

Well that makes a mockery of the whole system.
I bet half of those attending won’t have 6,000 pts but will know someone who has and use their ticket

First of all why pick this game out, it happens at every single away game

Secondly and most importantly it's 100% not a police matter

[Burnley1989]

This thread must be an all time low for this board. Utterly embarrassing from start to finish. Childlike.

I’m not sure they realise they’re a laughing stock, screen shots have been going around Twitter and WhatsApp groups, it’s grim

[Nori1958]

No. Set the loyalty points at 10,000 then 8,000 then 6,000 to allow the MOST loyal fans a better chance of a ticket.

UTC

They are not the most loyal fans though

I know a fan who travels from Dorset to every home game. So he does more miles,spends more on petrol, food etc than anyone who lives in Burnley and goes to all away games.
Because of the amount of time away from his family attending home games, he doesn't go to many away games.

He had enough points for rovers tickets, but not in your super fan bracket....is he not loyal enough for a ticket?

[Nori1958]

First of all why pick this game out, it happens at every single away game

Secondly and most importantly it's 100% not a police matter

Correct, it's an internal Burnley football club matter who they decide to sell tickets to
No legal standing so not a police matter
Rovers don't care who has a ticket as long as its a genuine one .

[pushpinpussy]

Can I become one of the first to congratulate the fans who have managed to get a ticket to this huge game. Well done in the ballot. Go there and do us proud. Don’t stop singing all the game. Make it sound like there is 7-8000 of us there. To those who didn’t get a ticket and who are complaining on here. Stop it please, it’s embarrassing and it does look like sour grapes.

[Rick_Muller]

Lots of discussion about who is “more” loyal and who is “more” deserving, and I say this.

2 loyal Burnley FC fans - one a 60+ year old with lots of disposable income who has been a ST holder for a very long time and goes to about 50% of away games has accrued (for arguments sake) 12000+ points by the virtue of being older and wealthy enough to accrue those points.

Second fan a 17 year old, been a ST holder since aged 7 with her dad in JMU, hardly been to away games because they can’t afford it and to be fair for youngsters away days aren’t always great as you get grown men standing and spoiling the view. She has amassed 6000+ points when you add in the cup games and the rare away game in the past. She has very little disposable income yet every spare penny goes on shirts and BFC whether that’s in the club shop or for food.

Which fan is “more” loyal? Which fan is “more” deserving?

Our club had a difficult decision to make as a result of petty, jealous actions of the club down the road. They decided rightly or wrongly that they would have a ballot, I suspect because they recognised that limiting the points to above 10000 would exclude many fans like the 17 year old in the example above and only include a very specific demographic of older male fans - if you’re in that demographic you will probably feel hard done by with the ballot, especially if you didn’t get a ticket. I also suspect the club didn’t want it to represent a SAGA away day with mainly 50+ aged fans going on a coach trip to watch the team.

It was never going to be possible to please everyone, but that is not our clubs fault. All vitriol should be directed at those down the road.

I have managed to secure 1 ticket for the away end. Normally I try and get 3 but only 1 of our group had enough points. My son has been promised 3 tickets in the home end with a work colleague of his, so my away ticket may end up being a spare. If that’s the case, I won’t profit from it, I’ll likely give it away to someone else who wants to go because I want as many of us there as possible.

[Nori1958]

i,ve noticed nobody on this thread seems concerned at BFC in the community lack of support for the Foodbank. (as in Tony,s article)
Anybody any views?

Nothing to do with the matters being discussed on this thread. There are plenty of threads on food banks,

[Lancasterclaret]

My son did at 21 as a uni student all about priorities. He knew we were going to play in Europe in April / May so he saved up made sacrifices earned money through the summer in order to be able to afford it. His loyalty has NOT been rewarded by the club. Or mine or my daughters.

UTC

Get him a 6 ft by 6 ft proper fan badge

I wrote a long post about priorities in life and then thought "What is the point?", the super fans on here aren't interested in reality

[FeedTheArf]

It’s virtually impossible to quantify loyalty.

I’ve always had a season ticket, but since starting a family I go on a lot less away games than I used to. I’ve got around 9000 points but my mate who I go on with now only has around 2000 points. He’s supported Burnley for years, but it’s only since a change in job that he could commit to a season ticket in recent years. It didn’t make any sense me entering the ballot on my own so I didn’t bother.

So take that example and imagine the bar was 8000 but my mate only had 6000. Not everyone goes on with someone of equal points, so whilst I can see the argument for raising the bar of the ballot, I completely understand why it was set at 6000. Not least because it also allows some more of our younger supports a fighting chance of getting a ticket.

Having 2000 points doesn’t make him any less loyal, just in the same way that I’m not any less loyal for not going on as many away games. It’s just life got in the way!

The system is flawed though. I say that as someone who has built up a stack of points. A rolling 5-year total would go a long way to improving it.

PS - Rovers have acted like children, but it’s just more fuel for the players to go and smash them!

[FeedTheArf]

Lots of discussion about who is “more” loyal and who is “more” deserving, and I say this.

2 loyal Burnley FC fans - one a 60+ year old with lots of disposable income who has been a ST holder for a very long time and goes to about 50% of away games has accrued (for arguments sake) 12000+ points by the virtue of being older and wealthy enough to accrue those points.

Second fan a 17 year old, been a ST holder since aged 7 with her dad in JMU, hardly been to away games because they can’t afford it and to be fair for youngsters away days aren’t always great as you get grown men standing and spoiling the view. She has amassed 6000+ points when you add in the cup games and the rare away game in the past. She has very little disposable income yet every spare penny goes on shirts and BFC whether that’s in the club shop or for food.

Which fan is “more” loyal? Which fan is “more” deserving?

Our club had a difficult decision to make as a result of petty, jealous actions of the club down the road. They decided rightly or wrongly that they would have a ballot, I suspect because they recognised that limiting the points to above 10000 would exclude many fans like the 17 year old in the example above and only include a very specific demographic of older male fans - if you’re in that demographic you will probably feel hard done by with the ballot, especially if you didn’t get a ticket. I also suspect the club didn’t want it to represent a SAGA away day with mainly 50+ aged fans going on a coach trip to watch the team.

It was never going to be possible to please everyone, but that is not our clubs fault. All vitriol should be directed at those down the road.

I have managed to secure 1 ticket for the away end. Normally I try and get 3 but only 1 of our group had enough points. My son has been promised 3 tickets in the home end with a work colleague of his, so my away ticket may end up being a spare. If that’s the case, I won’t profit from it, I’ll likely give it away to someone else who wants to go because I want as many of us there as possible.

Just about the best post on this thread. Very well summed up!

[Lancasterclaret]

I think its worth mentioning as often as possible on this thread that this is because Rovers and their fan base can't handle us being champions at their ground, and that the arguable more crucial matches v Norwich and Coventry they are allowing far more away fans in, so dismantling their own arguments about giving the team the best chance of winning

It is simply that they can't handle us being better than them, and they got all excited in the summer because they thought we'd be a basket case and instead we absolutely destroyed them at Turf Moor

Remember this, they know deep down who the best team in Lancashire is, and rather than deal with it, they'd rather be petty like this

[Andreshotboots]

Isn't it great though in a way fans arguing over not getting tickets?
When I first started watching the Clarets in the 80s you could have an entire terrace to yourself .

Sign of how far we've come, I've not been lucky enough to get a Rovers ticket either, but hey ho..

Let's hope that if we manage to stay in the Premier League for a season or two again the clammer for tickets is still there and we're not taking reduced allocations like we did for the last few seasons...

[arise_sir_charge]

What is most disappointing on this thread is that some long-standing and I’d argue well respected posters have used phrases like “more deserving”….madness.

I actually think that despite all the foot stamping and rattle throwing the club have handled this in as fair a way as possible.

[Hibsclaret]

This thread is petty and embarrassing beyond belief. If the tragic small minded club down the road have broken no rules it’s up to them how many away fans are allowed. Really that’s that tbh.

The last thing we need to do is start digging our own club out when they have had to react to the situation in a way they see as fair.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’m not sure they realise they’re a laughing stock, screen shots have been going around Twitter and WhatsApp groups, it’s grim

Not just me then who has been sent stuff highlighting some of the self entitled comments.

Those who are claiming they deserve a ticket because they are more loyal due to being older than other fans need to take a long hard look at themselves they are starting to look a bit desperate. I am starting to think we should do a ballot for every away game next season.

Some people are missing 1 game, you can guarantee almost all of them have missed 1 game this season already for one reason or another, just accept it and move on.

[Nori1958]

What is most disappointing on this thread is that some long-standing and I’d argue well respected posters have used phrases like “more deserving”….madness.

I actually think that despite all the foot stamping and rattle throwing the club have handled this in as fair a way as possible.

When my 12 yr old grandson was told that he would be unable to go to the Blackburn game he dealt with it far better than the " more deserving" on this website.

[dandeclaret]

Some people don’t seem to get that spending 100s of pounds and taking a couple of days off work just isn’t an option for lots of people no matter how much they love the club. That doesn’t make them less deserving of a ticket for Ewood. In fact you could make a reasonable argument that the tickets for the cheapest away trip of the season should go to those who can’t afford to travel up and down the country and take time off work to support the club.

I’ve seen this a few times. It’s always an option…. An option is a choice. For many very good reasons you may make the choice not to take up that option, but it’s always an option. Others make decisions to prioritise this above other things. Attending games is one of the major, measurable, indicators of loyalty.

It’s like saying, I’d love to fly loads to get into the BA gold card club, but it’s not an option for me….. and therefore they should just do random draws for upgrades on flights…. Just because you fly all over for work (ignoring the life choices you have to make to do it) doesn’t make you more eligible.

Can you think of any other tiered loyalty system that isn’t decided on whatever metric they define loyalty by?

[steve1264b]

This is difficult, once 2000 was announced there are always going to be people who don't get tickets feeling aggrieved and as is likely to happen there will be people with tickets who don't have the required points.

Its always happened, my boss had his playoff tickets (he never went on) before they had even gone on sale.

Its a no win situation for the club.

If was the owner i would have politely refused any tickets including the boardrooms, or having accepted the 2k put the boardroom tickets in the raffle. Im sure the higher ups at Rovers would love entertaining a few longsiders!

From their perspective this is a popular decision among the fanbase so i understand why they have done it.

Personally i have only been on Rovers once since the fateful Easter game, i won't give them the money, not event to watch the Clarets!!

[box_of_frogs]

A minority of grown men acting like spoilt kids. Ironic when they want a system that prevents kids getting tickets for away games.

Nail on the head.

[Sproggy]

Every cloud has a silver lining. Tickets for the Papa John's fanzone are now on sale.

Maybe Alan Pace will set up a Superfans table at the front where the most self-entitled fans can sit and watch the game? They should get a free slice of marguerita pizza and a special lanyard that shows their name and their loyalty points.

[roperclaret]

I agree 6000 points is a lot. You could have got to 6000 in the last 10 seasons. Do you think 11000 + points is just given to some people? it has taken my children about 20 years to amass 11000+ points. That’s 20 season tickets and 15 cup /away matches per season on average. I started in the late 70’s and have had a season ticket for 45+ years. If you haven’t got the points then there is something wrong if you’ve had a season ticket and been to loads of away matches. Loyalty over 20 years has not been rewarded yet loyalty over 10 has. That is not rewarding loyalty is it?

Utc

The old ‘I’ve been going on longer than you so I’m more loyal’ argument.

[martin_p]

I’ve seen this a few times. It’s always an option…. An option is a choice. For many very good reasons you may make the choice not to take up that option, but it’s always an option. Others make decisions to prioritise this above other things. Attending games is one of the major, measurable, indicators of loyalty.

It’s like saying, I’d love to fly loads to get into the BA gold card club, but it’s not an option for me….. and therefore they should just do random draws for upgrades on flights…. Just because you fly all over for work (ignoring the life choices you have to make to do it) doesn’t make you more eligible.

Can you think of any other tiered loyalty system that isn’t decided on whatever metric they define loyalty by?

No it isn’t always an option. If I want to buy something that cost £200 but only have £50 then buying it is not an option. It’s not a choice I’m making, it’s nothing to do with choices or sacrifices, it’s that I don’t have the money. I struggling to understand why people can’t grasp that plain and simple fact.

[Foshiznik]

Anyone know how many points you accrue per purchase? I must admit i am completely out of the loop due to living in Bristol/South West England all my life until recently moving back so have never really considered the loyalty system. Do you get more for away games than home? is it awarded per game or season tickets given more points than walking on to every home game?

[dandeclaret]

No it isn’t always an option. If I want to buy something that cost £200 but only have £50 then buying it is not an option. It’s not a choice I’m making, it’s nothing to do with choices or sacrifices, it’s that I don’t have the money. I struggling to understand why people can’t grasp that plain and simple fact.

Once again, there are options, they may not be palatable. You could sell something else, you could get a 2nd job. It’s very rare there are no options.

I do understand the frustration of an organisation introducing a tiered loyalty system, based on what they define as loyalty, then removing it at a time of high demand. Either scrap it totally, make it a free for all, or abide by it.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Anyone know how many points you accrue per purchase? I must admit i am completely out of the loop due to living in Bristol/South West England all my life until recently moving back so have never really considered the loyalty system. Do you get more for away games than home? is it awarded per game or season tickets given more points than walking on to every home game?

350 points for a season ticket or 10 points for any single game home or away

[NottsClaret]

It’s mad how crazy people get over this. It’s an issue like once every couple of years. Watch it on telly, go to the next one. Absolute loons.

[Culmclaret]

Isn't it great though in a way fans arguing over not getting tickets?
When I first started watching the Clarets in the 80s you could have an entire terrace to yourself .

Sign of how far we've come, I've not been lucky enough to get a Rovers ticket either, but hey ho..

Let's hope that if we manage to stay in the Premier League for a season or two again the clammer for tickets is still there and we're not taking reduced allocations like we did for the last few seasons...

Was going to say the same. A couple of games stick in the mind although there were many: Portsmouth in 81/82 - the first game in an amazing run - there were fewer than 50 on the terrace; and Torquay in 85/86, which aside from the pandemic, was the lowest gate to watch a Burnley league game since WW1 (1335). I feel genuinely sorry for those who have missed out, particularly for Tony who does such an amazing job and I am sure would have been in the rain at Portsmouth and the fog at Torquay, but in the scheme of things this is a First World problem!