Gary Lineker

[android]

Women's rights, child safeguarding and same-sex attraction rights do not interest you and you are worried about me!

I would like to discuss politics but I do not have time and it is probably not appropriate Let's leave it there LC. Have a good day.

[Lancasterclaret]

Women's rights, child safeguarding and same-sex attraction rights do not interest you and you are worried about me!

I would like to discuss politics but I do not have time and it is probably not appropriate Let's leave it there LC. Have a good day.

You've decided that this is what this is about, and I've decided that the arguments you think its about are part of the culture war that I have no interest in fighting, and I'm pretty sure the real issues are a lot more complicated than that

Got to struggle with work myself, and wondering how my lad to going to get on with a school trip to France next month, as that is something that is directly going to affect me

[android]

You've decided that this is what this is about, and I've decided that the arguments you think its about are part of the culture war that I have no interest in fighting, and I'm pretty sure the real issues are a lot more complicated than that

Got to struggle with work myself, and wondering how my lad to going to get on with a school trip to France next month, as that is something that is directly going to affect me

It is just reality LC and my decisions have no bearing at all beyond the people who I encounter. If you think the reality of the damaged women and children is a price worth paying for other perceived benefits then make the case. Or just remain disinterested, as is your right. But if uninformed and disinterested people keep commenting on the subject, the least I can do is keep trying to raise awareness of the issues.

I hope your lad gets to and from France alright and has a great time.

[Lancasterclaret]

It is just reality LC and my decisions have no bearing at all beyond the people who I encounter. If you think the reality of the damaged women and children is a price worth paying for other perceived benefits then make the case. Or just remain disinterested, as is your right. But if uninformed and disinterested people keep commenting on the subject, the least I can do is keep trying to raise awareness of the issues.

I hope your lad gets to and from France alright and has a great time.

So do I!

I shall remain disinterested because the country is falling apart and it is being weaponised by people who are responsible for the country falling apart

I know you have personal interest in this based on previous conversations, but the country will still continue to fall apart whatever happens with this, and I think its something that you need to bear in mind

[Rowls]

The trans issue is an important one but it's not a main issue in a general election for me.

It ought to be a marginal issue but both sides use issues like this as a kind of marker.

The gender critical side will be desperate to use clips of Sir Kier Starmer failing to be able to define what a women is or, more recently, claiming that 1 in every 1000 women has a willy.

The trans rights lobby on the other hand, will want to present self ID as an anti discrimination issue.

It's about positioning yourself in the mind of the voters and these kind of issues are bloated well beyond their actual importance.

[Rowls]

I shall remain disinterested because the country is falling apart and it is being weaponised by people who are responsible for the country falling apart

The country is not falling apart, Lancaster.

[Jakubclaret]

The country is not falling apart, Lancaster.

Since Brexit the country is in a stronger position than it's ever been, people who voted the other way just refuse to admit or see what's in front of their eyes.

[android]

So do I!

I shall remain disinterested because the country is falling apart and it is being weaponised by people who are responsible for the country falling apart

I know you have personal interest in this based on previous conversations, but the country will still continue to fall apart whatever happens with this, and I think its something that you need to bear in mind

I do have a personal interest in the women and children in my life but it is more important to bear in mind that we are talking about more than half of the population.

[Lancasterclaret]

The country is not falling apart, Lancaster.

No, its all going swimmingly

Absolutely nothing is wrong

[aggi]

I do have a personal interest in the women and children in my life but it is more important to bear in mind that we are talking about more than half of the population.

That "more than half of the population" doesn't have homogeneous views on the matter though.

[Lancasterclaret]

I do have a personal interest in the women and children in my life but it is more important to bear in mind that we are talking about more than half of the population.

No, you have posted about your daughter and her not being able to compete with trans athletes (apology if that is not correct)

The rest of it (from what I'm reading) is a lot of people getting tremendously angry about gender neutral toilets and demanding that men are banned from them or something (apologies again for the me treating something probably too trivially, but see my previous answers)

Like I said, if that is more important than the inflation, or the economy stagnating, then crack on, but its unlikely to see your bills drop or the economy recover, and its very unlikely to get the government to actually do its actual job

[android]

It ought to be a marginal issue but both sides use issues like this as a kind of marker.

The gender critical side will be desperate to use clips of Sir Kier Starmer failing to be able to define what a women is or, more recently, claiming that 1 in every 1000 women has a willy.

The trans rights lobby on the other hand, will want to present self ID as an anti discrimination issue.

It's about positioning yourself in the mind of the voters and these kind of issues are bloated well beyond their actual importance.

A very male take. You are well informed on many subjects Rowls but not this one it seems. I could not disagree more with your opening and closing remarks.

Look up the latest clip (I'm lazy / useless with links) from the esteemed PM of New Zealand being asked about women and try to imagine you are a woman listening to his response. If nothing else it will give you a laugh but it really isn't funny if you are a woman who has been on the receiving end (most women I would guess but I am not a woman).

[android]

That "more than half of the population" doesn't have homogeneous views on the matter though.

Correct. Do the women in your life think sex matters? (I'm not trying to be funny)!

[Lancasterclaret]

A very male take. You are well informed on many subjects Rowls but not this one it seems. I could not disagree more with your opening and closing remarks.

Look up the latest clip (I'm lazy / useless with links) from the esteemed PM of New Zealand being asked about women and try to imagine you are a woman listening to his response. If nothing else it will give you a laugh but it really isn't funny if you are a woman who has been on the receiving end (most women I would guess but I am not a woman).

He's not well informed though is he?

He's very good at taking a surface interest but not being able to go deeper or being unable to recognise when he's out of his depth

On the thing you are on about, I'm completely honest that I'm totally out of my depth and I have limited interest in it*

*but because its being used as part of the culture war, which is being used by the government to try to get people to ignore much more serious and pressing economic and social issues I get dragged in!

[android]

No, you have posted about your daughter and her not being able to compete with trans athletes (apology if that is not correct)

The rest of it (from what I'm reading) is a lot of people getting tremendously angry about gender neutral toilets and demanding that men are banned from them or something (apologies again for the me treating something probably too trivially, but see my previous answers)

Like I said, if that is more important than the inflation, or the economy stagnating, then crack on, but its unlikely to see your bills drop or the economy recover, and its very unlikely to get the government to actually do its actual job

Mostly wrong as usual LC. I am sure I have seen you get frustrated with other posters commenting on stuff they do not understand. Seriously, let's leave it.

[android]

He's not well informed though is he?

He's very good at taking a surface interest but not being able to go deeper or being unable to recognise when he's out of his depth

On the thing you are on about, I'm completely honest that I'm totally out of my depth and I have limited interest in it*

*but because its being used as part of the culture war, which is being used by the government to try to get people to ignore much more serious and pressing economic and social issues I get dragged in!

You do not understand it, you are not interested in it but you do KNOW that the small matter of whether sex is important (history suggests that it has tended to be fairly significant!!) is being used as part of a culture war. Please stop!

[Rowls]

He's not well informed though is he?

He's very good at taking a surface interest but not being able to go deeper or being unable to recognise when he's out of his depth

On the thing you are on about, I'm completely honest that I'm totally out of my depth and I have limited interest in it*

*but because its being used as part of the culture war, which is being used by the government to try to get people to ignore much more serious and pressing economic and social issues I get dragged in!

Lol. Nobody needs a doctorate to know what a woman is or to have an opinion on the matter.

[Rowls]

A very male take. You are well informed on many subjects Rowls but not this one it seems. I could not disagree more with your opening and closing remarks.

Look up the latest clip (I'm lazy / useless with links) from the esteemed PM of New Zealand being asked about women and try to imagine you are a woman listening to his response. If nothing else it will give you a laugh but it really isn't funny if you are a woman who has been on the receiving end (most women I would guess but I am not a woman).

The topic here is how and why political parties use these 'wedge issues' and on that I beleive I'm very well informed.

As for the trans debate itself, as I've said in my post above, you really don't need a doctorate to know what a woman is or to have an opinion on the matter.

[helmclaret]

The country is not falling apart, Lancaster.

Mmmmmmm…

[Rowls]

Mmmmmmm…

Ohhhhhhhhh...

[Lancasterclaret]

Lol. Nobody needs a doctorate to know what a woman is or to have an opinion on the matter.

Lol yourself

Android clearly has more invested in this than me, so I listen to him

You don't, so I'm assuming this is going to be someone who knows a lot more about this than you handing you your arse on a plate in the very near future

I repeat, I just wish this could be talked about without it being used to cover the issues that the country is facing that are being ignored

[aggi]

Correct. Do the women in your life think sex matters? (I'm not trying to be funny)!

So far as I'm aware most don't really care about it, a few have very strong views, some think it is something they should have a view on it but haven't really decided on that view.

[Lancasterclaret]

You do not understand it, you are not interested in it but you do KNOW that the small matter of whether sex is important (history suggests that it has tended to be fairly significant!!) is being used as part of a culture war. Please stop!

I have stated why I'm commenting on it

And you are ignoring that reason, because you want to talk about it because you have a deeply personal interest in it, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you have a deeply personal reason to talk about it

I think other people use this topic as a smokescreen for a culture war that will do more damage to both your cause and the other side, and I find that deeply depressing that an elected government uses that tactic

[Jakubclaret]

So far as I'm aware most don't really care about it, a few have very strong views, some think it is something they should have a view on it but haven't really decided on that view.

Or some people are trying to work out how the trans sex issue fits into Gary lineker I guess it's a welcome shift away from immigration which was starting to become boring. How so many subjects can come & go & spin around 1 bloke is amazing, all the credit must surely go to Gary lineker for that.

[Rowls]

Lol yourself

Android clearly has more invested in this than me, so I listen to him

You don't, so I'm assuming this is going to be someone who knows a lot more about this than you handing you your arse on a plate in the very near future

I repeat, I just wish this could be talked about without it being used to cover the issues that the country is facing that are being ignored

As I said, you don't need a doctorate to have an opinion on the matter.

The issue is how we accommodate trans people in society. Nobody needs a qualification to have an opinion on this. It isn't something like nuclear physics that needs to put into the hands of a small elite. It's a matter for the electorate as a whole.

[Lancasterclaret]

As I said, you don't need a doctorate to have an opinion on the matter.

The issue is how we accommodate trans people in society. Nobody needs a qualification to have an opinion on this. It isn't something like nuclear physics that needs to put into the hands of a small elite. It's a matter for the electorate as a whole.

Yellow stars to identify them?

[Rowls]

Yellow stars to identify them?

[Lancasterclaret]

My views on trans people are on this thread Rowls

Are yours?

[Rowls]

Yellow stars to identify them?

My views on trans people are on this thread Rowls

Are yours?

If you'd like to retract the appalling insinuation you made against me (above), I'll happily share my views on trans people.

[Lancasterclaret]

If you'd like to retract the appalling insinuation you made against me, I'll happily share my views on trans people.

Which one would that be?

I just think you are a pillock at times on threads like this because you don't know when you are out of your depth and you end up digging the sort of holes not normally seen this side of Westminster

Its both entertaining and depressing, as the first thing anyone should know is "Do I actually know what I'm talking about?"

I don't with this, but I'm content with my "you have one life, if you are in the wrong body and know that you are, and you can change it so you are happier, then that is fine with me"

[Rowls]

Which one would that be?

I just think you are a pillock at times on threads like this because you don't know when you are out of your depth and you end up digging the sort of holes not normally seen this side of Westminster

Its both entertaining and depressing, as the first thing anyone should know is "Do I actually know what I'm talking about?"

I don't with this, but I'm content with my "you have one life, if you are in the wrong body and know that you are, and you can change it so you are happier, then that is fine with me"

Which one? The one I quoted.

I'm not going to debate you or engage in good faith with you until you are prepared to do the same.

Your post was completely out of order and you really ought to know it.

[Rowls]

Yellow stars to identify them?

This is post I have the problem with, in case you're in any doubt.

[Lancasterclaret]

Which one? The one I quoted.

I'm not going to debate you or engage in good faith with you until you are prepared to do the same.

Your post was completely out of order and you really ought to know it.

You suggested that the electorate should decide what to do with trans people in society?

WTF does that mean?

You could explain it or......

[Lancasterclaret]

This is post I have the problem with, in case you're in any doubt.

"not going to debate in good faith with you"

If only you could one day do that with anyone mate!

[Rowls]

You suggested that the electorate should decide what to do with trans people in society?

WTF does that mean?

You could explain it or......

Yes, i'm happy to explain it.

Once you've retracted the insinuation.

Yellow stars to identify them?

[Lancasterclaret]

The issue is how we accommodate trans people in society. Nobody needs a qualification to have an opinion on this. It isn't something like nuclear physics that needs to put into the hands of a small elite. It's a matter for the electorate as a whole.

How we accommodate trans people in society

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, thats how perfectly normal people talk about trans people yessireee!

[Notsosuperstevedavis]

Well. This is a propper bickerfest. Non of which seems to be about Gary Lineker.

How you lot have failed to get this thread locked I’ll never know.

[Rowls]

Well. This is a propper bickerfest. Non of which seems to be about Gary Lineker.

How you lot have failed to get this thread locked I’ll never know.

It was actually going fairly well. Gary Lineker was really a jumping off point to start a debate. It's grown organically and I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's easy enough to keep a thread going - you just have to be polite and not resort to abuse or insults.

Sadly, Lancaster has made a appalling insinuation against me and I'm not prepared to engage with him until he retracts it.

[Jakubclaret]

It was actually going fairly well. Gary Lineker was really a jumping off point to start a debate. It's grown organically and I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's easy enough to keep a thread going - you just have to be polite and not resort to abuse or insults.

Sadly, Lancaster has made a appalling insinuation against me and I'm not prepared to engage with him until he retracts it.

That's exactly what I did with another poster as soon as insults & abuse start it's time not to engage & be the better person & then further hostility can't continue it's how adults should behave.

[Nori1958]

Well. This is a propper bickerfest. Non of which seems to be about Gary Lineker.

How you lot have failed to get this thread locked I’ll never know.

Lancaster usually manages to do that...seems to be taking him a bit longer today.

[Greenmile]

I do have a personal interest in the women and children in my life but it is more important to bear in mind that we are talking about more than half of the population.

Lots of interesting polls on the following link, but the one that stood out to me was :-


Women are more likely than men to support greater transgender rights across all questions

Across the board, women are more likely than men to support greater transgender rights.

In fact, the only transgender issue on which men tend to be supportive is that people should be able to socially identify as a different gender to the one they had recorded at birth, by 47% to 33% (a net score of +14). While this may be the most pro-trans stance men take, it is also the one on which they are farthest behind women. More than six in ten women (63%) say people should be able to identify as another gender socially, compared to only 18% who disagree, giving a net score of +45.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/art ... der-rights

...so maybe you should stop claiming to speak for women, when it appears that, on the whole, women are more accepting of trans people than men.

[SocialistClaret]

If you'd like to retract the appalling insinuation you made against me (above), I'll happily share my views on trans people.

This is pretty weak. Refusing to share your opinions on whether trans people deserve human rights or not because someone offended you.

Is it snowing yet?

[SocialistClaret]

You suggested that the electorate should decide what to do with trans people in society?

WTF does that mean?

You could explain it or......

As with all social issues throughout history, the majority should get to decide what rights the minority have. That's what he's saying.

What could go wrong?

[Rowls]

This is pretty weak. Refusing to share your opinions on whether trans people deserve human rights or not because someone offended you.

Is it snowing yet?

I disagree. Falsely implying somebody is supports the genocide of a demographic is an appalling thing to do.

Lancaster is normally much better than that and the door is open for him to retract the comment. There was, of course, nothing that warranted his comment.

If he wants to know my views on how best to accommodate trans people in society all he had to do was ask, and that goes for anybody else. I'm simply not going to engage with him on the matter until he does so. Engaging with Lancaster further on this thread is the only thing I'm refusing to do.

Anybody else is free to enquire about my opinions. I'm hardly shy about sharing them.

[dsr]

As with all social issues throughout history, the majority should get to decide what rights the minority have. That's what he's saying.

What could go wrong?

Someone has to decide. To take one of the more serious aspects of trans politics, as recently discussed, if a trans woman (or someone claiming to be a trans woman) commits a rape, that person must be sent to prison. Men's prison or women's prison? Or mixed prison, or new transgender prison? It must be decided one way or the other. It can't be ignored.

[Bigbopper]

As with all social issues throughout history, the majority should get to decide what rights the minority have. That's what he's saying.

What could go wrong?

Look at it the other way, a vocal minority get to demand what rights the majority must give up.

[CoolClaret]

As with all social issues throughout history, the majority should get to decide what rights the minority have. That's what he's saying.

What could go wrong?

Strong contradiction on the username to post content

[SocialistClaret]

Someone has to decide. To take one of the more serious aspects of trans politics, as recently discussed, if a trans woman (or someone claiming to be a trans woman) commits a rape, that person must be sent to prison. Men's prison or women's prison? Or mixed prison, or new transgender prison? It must be decided one way or the other. It can't be ignored.

How about we properly fund staffing in prisons so that prisoners are safe?

Or we could continue with pretending that prisoner safety and comfort has been a long-term concern among a certain political wing, and that it's not just a proxy to justify hate and discrimination against trans people.

What say you? Should we properly fund our prison system so that convicted criminals can feel safe and secure? I'm in favour.

[SocialistClaret]

Look at it the other way, a vocal minority get to demand what rights the majority must give up.

Who is giving up rights by allowing trans people to exist in the world just like everyone else?

It's a lie you've fallen for that the expansion of rights to a minority means removal of rights from the majority. It's not zero sum. Stop falling for it.

[TheFamilyCat]

Who is giving up rights by allowing trans people to exist in the world just like everyone else?

It's a lie you've fallen for that the expansion of rights to a minority means removal of rights from the majority. It's not zero sum. Stop falling for it.

Bigbopper falls for big whoppers.